Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, jvs said:

A little of topic but why not?I have experienced a lot of lucid dreams in the past and sometimes still do.

Not the first time i dream but if i wake up and remember the dream i tell myself i am in control and there for redream it and change the outcome.

When i was young i found myself ready for some recurring dreams and stop them from being

scary,this had a lot to do with childhood trauma.

Now sometimes i realize i am dreaming and control it from right there right now,this can be fun!

Not off topic imho.

While dreaming, we can still be conscious of our ego, but without the heavy chains of the physical "reality ", thus we can come in contact with " spiritual realms".

[faraday]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Anyone else got experiences with lucid dreaming?

 

Yes, I have, many times & often attempt to induce them. Some have been really remarkable.

 

I do find it tricky, that when I'm experiencing them, my thinking gets in the way, & they fade.

 

Do you, or others have any particular technique that you find succesfull?

 

Sometimes I take Valerian, which gives me very real dreams, but dunno if they can be called Lucid.

 

 

 

 

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Anyone else got experiences with lucid dreaming?

Yes......absolute love it......intensely detailed fly-overs of cityscapes are my favorite. 

 

I panic sometimes they are so good, worried that they will end, which causes me to come out of them.

[jvs]

31 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Yes......absolute love it......intensely detailed fly-overs of cityscapes are my favorite. 

 

I panic sometimes they are so good, worried that they will end, which causes me to come out of them.

My dreams are always about inter actions with other people,always have been.

I can even hear clear voices and see faces,most of the time i know these people.

Edited January 28, 2021 by jvs

[Surelynot]

13 minutes ago, jvs said:

My dreams are always about inter actions with other people,always have been.

I can even hear clear voices and see faces,most of the time i know these people.

Interesting ......I never see or talk to anyone, I must have a go at that........the most intense 'dream' was a drive through the countryside where I seemed to be sat on the front bumper of a car......struggled to replicate it since.

[Surelynot]

55 minutes ago, faraday said:

 

I do find it tricky, that when I'm experiencing them, my thinking gets in the way, & they fade.

Yes....that is so annoying.......to the point where the dream breaks down because you realize what you are actually doing.....managing/controlling the dream....

 

I have a lot of false starts where I get too excited, lose it and have to settle and start again.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Surelynot

[jvs]

11 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Interesting ......I never see or talk to anyone, I must have a go at that........the most intense 'dream' was a drive through the countryside where I seemed to be sat on the front bumper of a car......struggled to replicate it since.

Watch drones videos before bedtime and think of flying before you fall asleep,it may help.

[Tagged]

I had dreams in my dream in my dream, and I had to wake myself up three times by telling myself I was dreaming, but when waking up I realized after awhile I was still dreaming, and once more. Im often knowing Im dreaming and can play along. Mostly before I was making a few steps, and taking off for a long flight in great landscape. The only problem I never knew how to land without a parachute, and crashlanded every time. Felt the impact, thinking I was dead, then raised up, and shaked the dust off, and saying to myself, that wasnt so bad. 

 

Because of bad sleep pattern for many years during depression, I learned a staged sleeping process to manage to sleep, and use the same method every night. Call it a sleep exersize. Helps alot to sleep better. 

[Tagged]

2 minutes ago, jvs said:

Watch drones videos before bedtime and think of flying before you fall asleep,it may help.

Haha, thats another good one. Its like a glass of milk in the evening. As long you believe it helps

[jvs]

Maybe related to this could be drug induced ideas and dreams?

When i was younger and used marijuana before i fell asleep i would have the brightest

ideas ever,could work out all of the details.

I still know i had good ideas but i just can not remember them!

I know some great songs were written while the artists were under influence.

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, jvs said:

Maybe related to this could be drug induced ideas and dreams?

When i was younger and used marijuana before i fell asleep i would have the brightest

ideas ever,could work out all of the details.

I still know i had good ideas but i just can not remember them!

I know some great songs were written while the artists were under influence.

What kind of marijuana? I never slept good after any medication or drugs. Yes can sleep deep, but never feel completely rested when waking up the day after, and can feel the same way in many days after. 

 

Most of the "enlightened masters/gurus, do not recomend drugs, and I believe they should know? Why is it so many of their followers  who swear to use some substances even when they masters tell them not to do? 

 

I do not have any master or guru, or did not need any to tell me that drugs is no good for me. I discovered that for myself, even I had some great experiences with testing. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Tagged

[Sunmaster]

Wow, this certainly found some fertile ground on both sides ("believers" and non). After all, we all dream regardless of our belief system.
I too find it not to be off topic. In the end it's just another thing on the spectrum of consciousness...

To the techniques...
20 years ago I started with Castaneda's technique of looking at my hands (like MauGr1). Since then though, there has been a lot of research and generally a lot more people practicing lucid dreaming and sharing their experiences online.
The most widespread techniques now seem to be these "reality checks" or "reality tests" that you have to perform repeatedly during the waking state, so that you can condition yourself to do it in the dream also.

1. Ask yourself "Am I dreaming" (always ask this with the other techniques too). Pinch your nose and try to breathe in, with a sense of expectation that it will work.
2. Read something (a newspaper title, a billboard, a shop sign etc), look away for a couple of seconds, then look back and read again. In dreams, 99% of the times the text will change.
3. Look at digital clocks. Same as with text technique above. Somehow, the brain can't keep track of the right sequence of time/numbers. This will give you a hint if you're dreaming or not.
4. Hands. Either look at your hands (not the most reliable way) or try to push one finger through the palm of the other hand.

One should perform 1 or 2 reality checks to induce lucid dreaming.

I used Bacopa Monnieri a few times, a natural supplement you can find on Lazada, that helps with memory and dream recollection. It also intensifies dreams. 
I also just got another supplement called DreamLeaf (available on ebay), which I'm still experimenting with. Seems to be very strong though and I've managed to remember up to 4 vivid dreams in one night alone. No lucid dreams yet.
In any case, supplements (changing brain chemistry) are just one of 3 fundamentals, the other 2 being timing and psychology (induction techniques).
I'm reading an excellent book called "Are you dreaming - Exploring Lucid Dreams - A comprehensive Guide" by Daniel Love. 

 

[jvs]

31 minutes ago, Tagged said:

What kind of marijuana? I never slept good after any medication or drugs. Yes can sleep deep, but never feel completely rested when waking up the day after, and can feel the same way in many days after. 

 

Most of the "enlightened masters/gurus, do not recomend drugs, and I believe they should know? Why is it so many of their followers  who swear to use some substances even when they masters tell them not to do? 

 

I do not have any master or guru, or did not need any to tell me that drugs is no good for me. I discovered that for myself, even I had some great experiences with testing. 

I have no idea what kind of marijuana but it was in the form of oil,i never smoked so i do not like to take it like that.I can sleep very long and deep and need the next day to wake up so to speak.

I never followed any masters or gurus and i never read much about this kind of stuff it is like religion i guess ,you need enough info to make up your own mind without being brainwashed or indoctrinated .

As you,my experiences are purely my own without any outside guidance,more pure that way i think.

Another thing about taking marijuana is that i always was happy and smiled a lot,never a bad experience.

[CMNightRider]

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Wow, this certainly found some fertile ground on both sides ("believers" and non). After all, we all dream regardless of our belief system.
I too find it not to be off topic. In the end it's just another thing on the spectrum of consciousness...

To the techniques...
20 years ago I started with Castaneda's technique of looking at my hands (like MauGr1). Since then though, there has been a lot of research and generally a lot more people practicing lucid dreaming and sharing their experiences online.
The most widespread techniques now seem to be these "reality checks" or "reality tests" that you have to perform repeatedly during the waking state, so that you can condition yourself to do it in the dream also.

1. Ask yourself "Am I dreaming" (always ask this with the other techniques too). Pinch your nose and try to breathe in, with a sense of expectation that it will work.
2. Read something (a newspaper title, a billboard, a shop sign etc), look away for a couple of seconds, then look back and read again. In dreams, 99% of the times the text will change.
3. Look at digital clocks. Same as with text technique above. Somehow, the brain can't keep track of the right sequence of time/numbers. This will give you a hint if you're dreaming or not.
4. Hands. Either look at your hands (not the most reliable way) or try to push one finger through the palm of the other hand.

One should perform 1 or 2 reality checks to induce lucid dreaming.

I used Bacopa Monnieri a few times, a natural supplement you can find on Lazada, that helps with memory and dream recollection. It also intensifies dreams. 
I also just got another supplement called DreamLeaf (available on ebay), which I'm still experimenting with. Seems to be very strong though and I've managed to remember up to 4 vivid dreams in one night alone. No lucid dreams yet.
In any case, supplements (changing brain chemistry) are just one of 3 fundamentals, the other 2 being timing and psychology (induction techniques).
I'm reading an excellent book called "Are you dreaming - Exploring Lucid Dreams - A comprehensive Guide" by Daniel Love. 

 

I often use your technique number 1, almost every time I read any of the posts on Thai Visa.  "Am I dreaming," I ask myself or have I possibly stumbled into the twilight zone.  This topic has awakened many who have ingested too many mind altering drugs or just those with extremely low cognitive abilities.

 

Anyone who would like to know God, and know why you are here just read the Bible.  It only takes about 72 hours to read from start to finish.  The Bible is the most interesting and informative book ever written.  The reason being, it is the word of God and shows everyone who reads it how to have ever lasting life in Heaven.

 

Of particular interest to all those alive today, is the Rapture and the Tribulation.  The Bible explains how to be part of the Rapture.  It goes into great detail about why you do not want to experience the Tribulation.  It's up to you to decide where you will spend eternity.  We all have until we take our last breath.  After that it is a done deal.       

[jvs]

1 minute ago, CMNightRider said:

I often use your technique number 1, almost every time I read any of the posts on Thai Visa.  "Am I dreaming," I ask myself or have I possibly stumbled into the twilight zone.  This topic has awakened many who have ingested too many mind altering drugs or just those with extremely low cognitive abilities.

 

Anyone who would like to know God, and know why you are here just read the Bible.  It only takes about 72 hours to read from start to finish.  The Bible is the most interesting and informative book ever written.  The reason being, it is the word of God and shows everyone who reads it how to have ever lasting life in Heaven.

 

Of particular interest to all those alive today, is the Rapture and the Tribulation.  The Bible explains how to be part of the Rapture.  It goes into great detail about why you do not want to experience the Tribulation.  It's up to you to decide where you will spend eternity.  We all have until we take our last breath.  After that it is a done deal.       

You keep going on about the bible,have you ever read other religious books?

[mauGR1]

28 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I often use your technique number 1, almost every time I read any of the posts on Thai Visa.  "Am I dreaming," I ask myself or have I possibly stumbled into the twilight zone.  This topic has awakened many who have ingested too many mind altering drugs or just those with extremely low cognitive abilities.

 

Anyone who would like to know God, and know why you are here just read the Bible.  It only takes about 72 hours to read from start to finish.  The Bible is the most interesting and informative book ever written.  The reason being, it is the word of God and shows everyone who reads it how to have ever lasting life in Heaven.

 

Of particular interest to all those alive today, is the Rapture and the Tribulation.  The Bible explains how to be part of the Rapture.  It goes into great detail about why you do not want to experience the Tribulation.  It's up to you to decide where you will spend eternity.  We all have until we take our last breath.  After that it is a done deal.       

I didn't read all the different books of the bible, but enough to know that you didn't understand much about it.

Just shouting "Bible ! Bible !" Is clearly not enough to go to heaven imho.

[VincentRJ]

These posts about dreaming remind me of that famous Taoist parable:

 

"Once upon a time, I, Zhuangzi, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Zhuangzi. Soon I awakened, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man."

 

It's an interesting story, but on analysis, totally ridiculous. Zhuangzi was apparently conscious only of his happiness as a butterfly. Apparently, he wasn't aware of the details of being a butterfly, such as the difficulty of adapting to the constantly changing air flows as he flies, or the visual experience of seeing a flower and the flower pollen, and the taste he experienced when he fed on such pollen and other sources of nutrients such as rotten fruit, rotting carcasses and faeces.

 

If  Zhuangzi didn't experience such details as a butterfly in his dream, then how could he possibly wonder whether he was a butterfly dreaming he was a man, when he awoke? The explanations that makes the most sense is that Zhuangzi was either a very confused person who was not aware of much detail in his surroundings when he was awake and lived in a haze, or the story is a complete fabrication for the purpose of a ridiculous analogy. ????
 

[Sunmaster]

39 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

These posts about dreaming remind me of that famous Taoist parable:

 

"Once upon a time, I, Zhuangzi, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Zhuangzi. Soon I awakened, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man."

 

It's an interesting story, but on analysis, totally ridiculous. Zhuangzi was apparently conscious only of his happiness as a butterfly. Apparently, he wasn't aware of the details of being a butterfly, such as the difficulty of adapting to the constantly changing air flows as he flies, or the visual experience of seeing a flower and the flower pollen, and the taste he experienced when he fed on such pollen and other sources of nutrients such as rotten fruit, rotting carcasses and faeces.

 

If  Zhuangzi didn't experience such details as a butterfly in his dream, then how could he possibly wonder whether he was a butterfly dreaming he was a man, when he awoke? The explanations that makes the most sense is that Zhuangzi was either a very confused person who was not aware of much detail in his surroundings when he was awake and lived in a haze, or the story is a complete fabrication for the purpose of a ridiculous analogy. ????
 

Overthinking is the habit of applying analytical thinking and problem-solving in a situation where it is unhelpful or unproductive. When overthinking becomes a consistent part of your life, it can lead to stress, anxiety, depression, relationship conflict, and many other problems.
https://nickwignall.com/overthinking/#:~:text=Summary and Conclusion-,Overthinking is the habit of applying analytical thinking and problem,conflict%2C and many other problems.

 

 

Overthinking is also often associated with mental health issues like depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress and borderline personality disorder.
https://www.keranews.org/health-science-tech/2019-07-12/how-overthinking-can-affect-mental-and-physical-health

 

How Do I Stop overthinking?

These tips can help you move in the right direction.

1. Step back and look at how you're responding. ...
2. Find a distraction. ...
3. Take a deep breath. ...
4. Meditate. ...
5. Look at the bigger picture. ...
6. Do something nice for someone else. ...
7. Recognize automatic negative thinking. ...
8. Acknowledge your successes.
9. Stay present
10. Consider other viewpoints
11. Embrace your fears
12. Ask for help
    https://www.healthline.com/health/how-to-stop-overthinking#ask-for-help
    
    

 

 

[VincentRJ]

12 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Overthinking is the habit of applying analytical thinking and problem-solving in a situation where it is unhelpful or unproductive. When overthinking becomes a consistent part of your life, it can lead to stress, anxiety, depression, relationship conflict, and many other problems.

Of course. That's obvious. Overthinking, overreacting, overworking, overeating, overdoing anything, is not good by definition, just as underthinking, undereating, and so on, should not be recommended, except when deliberately engaging in periods of meditation or fasting.

 

'Doing and thinking' in order to be helpful and productive for oneself and others, is obviously recommended. Doing and thinking that result in worry, anger, depression, and so on, is obviously not to be recommended.

 

However, I'm puzzled why you would think that my analysis of the Taoist parable fits into that category of 'overthinking'. The story has a certain charm, like some of the Alice in Wonderland stories, however from a more profound philosophical perspective the idea that someone could be so confused that he was not sure if he was a butterfly dreaming he was a man, or a man dreaming he was a butterfly, suggest that person has a serious problem with reality. ????

 

For me, my analysis produces clarity and calm.
 

[mauGR1]

36 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

For me, my analysis produces clarity and calm.

Perhaps calm but not clarity. 

You seem to assume that the consciousness of a butterfly is comparable to human consciousness,  and that's completely wrong imho.

[Tagged]

6 minutes ago, rcuthbert said:

Humans share up to 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees*

The latest data from the Space Telescopes show that there are 100's of billions  galaxies in the known universe**

Therefore, it is unreasonable to assume that humans possess the highest intellect in the universe.

 

So far from what we have learned from our own presence on this planet, is that our nature when we evolve in harsh enviroment like planet earth,  which however at the momen is stable, but troughout history it have been everything else than a walk in the park. This creates an conquer mentality, (the seven sins to mentions some few more negatives) that stays with us in our dna memory, and is hard to let go in a few generations where we have the technology as we have today, and really do not need th conquer anymore. 

 

This dna memory give is a mentality, that is self destructive, so every high intellect elsewhere in the space, more likely will go self destinct. Or a planet lifespan without a bigger chatastrophe like an natural dissaster will happen before we reach a state where we can travel lightyears. 

 

Anyone understand any of my babble here? 

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, Tagged said:

So far from what we have learned from our own presence on this planet, is that our nature when we evolve in harsh enviroment like planet earth,  which however at the momen is stable, but troughout history it have been everything else than a walk in the park. This creates an conquer mentality, (the seven sins to mentions some few more negatives) that stays with us in our dna memory, and is hard to let go in a few generations where we have the technology as we have today, and really do not need th conquer anymore. 

 

This dna memory give is a mentality, that is self destructive, so every high intellect elsewhere in the space, more likely will go self destinct. Or a planet lifespan without a bigger chatastrophe like an natural dissaster will happen before we reach a state where we can travel lightyears. 

 

Anyone understand any of my babble here? 

Well, if you look at it from a physical point of view,  it's clear that everything which has a beginning,  has an end.

.. but surely there is the possibility that there's "something " which is eternal, even by a materialistic point of view. 

we should be honest enough to admit that we don't know much, as Socrates said : "the more I learn,  the more I have to admit my ignorance ".

 

[VincentRJ]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Perhaps calm but not clarity. 

You seem to assume that the consciousness of a butterfly is comparable to human consciousness,  and that's completely wrong imho.

What on earth did I write that gave you that impression?? I understand quite clearly that different species have different types of sensory receptors and therefore must have a different type and range of consciousness. Bats have no sensors for reflected light, such as eyes in the human sense, therefore they cannot see in the way humans do. However, they are able to emit sounds and hear the reflection of those sounds from any material objects in their flight path.

 

Butterflies are very sensitive creatures with excellent sensory capacity. Their eyes are big and round and allow the butterflies to see 314 degrees around themselves.

 

Humans can see colors ranging from red to violet. However, butterflies can see a wider range from red to ultraviolet. They also have chemical receptors on their feet that allow them to taste the plants they land on.

 

They also have two long antennae that can detect vibrations from sound and air, and are used for socializing.

 

Now I didn't get that information from dreaming I was a bat or a butterfly. I got it from scientific research. When Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, he was only aware of his happiness as a butterfly. If he'd mentioned the causes of such happiness, such as the delicious taste from his feet when he landed on a plant, or the brilliant colors he saw that were bluer than anything he'd seen when not dreaming, or the exciting experience of socializing with the opposite sex when using his antenna, then that would have been a truly remarkable dream. ????
 

[mauGR1]

15 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Now I didn't get that information from dreaming I was a bat or a butterfly. I got it from scientific research. When Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, he was only aware of his happiness as a butterfly. If he'd mentioned the causes of such happiness, such as the delicious taste from his feet when he landed on a plant, or the brilliant colors he saw that were bluer than anything he'd seen when not dreaming, or the exciting experience of socializing with the opposite sex when using his antenna, then that would have been a truly remarkable dream. ????

Well, perhaps everything you say about bats and butterflies is true, but you know that because, as a human,  you are able to study other species, and build instruments to improve your studies.

I am quite sure that a butterfly,  with all its round eyes, antennas and special feet, would  not be able to describe all that in the same way which you did.

I'm also convinced that no religion,  philosophy,  not even a political party has been created by a bat or a butterfly. 

Perhaps "consciousness " doesn't come just from sensory receptors as you seem to believe. 

[metisdead]

Some troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Tagged]

28 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, perhaps everything you say about bats and butterflies is true, but you know that because, as a human,  you are able to study other species, and build instruments to improve your studies.

I am quite sure that a butterfly,  with all its round eyes, antennas and special feet, would  not be able to describe all that in the same way which you did.

I'm also convinced that no religion,  philosophy,  not even a political party has been created by a bat or a butterfly. 

Perhaps "consciousness " doesn't come just from sensory receptors as you seem to believe. 

Would it help the butterfly if they could? 

 

Become a human alike with excess thoughts, a whole specter ofp feelings for good and bad, a modern human with great excess energy with a mind that tell us and show us the whole specter of truth, lies and fantasies. 

 

If you ask me humans is quite simple and a miserable creation on this planet, just taking up space and destroy our living consition in a fast and rapid way. 

 

Everything you mintion above have carried us away on a road to hell 

 

????????????

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Would it help the butterfly if they could? 

 

Become a human alike with excess thoughts, a whole specter ofp feelings for good and bad, a modern human with great excess energy with a mind that tell us and show us the whole specter of truth, lies and fantasies. 

 

If you ask me humans is quite simple and a miserable creation on this planet, just taking up space and destroy our living consition in a fast and rapid way. 

 

Everything you mintion above have carried us away on a road to hell 

 

????????????

Well, if you really think that way, you can choose to live like a wild animal, but somehow I doubt that you'd really like it.

[Tagged]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

Well, if you really think that way, you can choose to live like a wild animal, but somehow I doubt that you'd really like it.

No, Im a human with all it comes with or without. But I would not  imagine or think we are anymore special than any other creation on this planet. Im also happy to fall to rest with my knownledge that I will never know what we really are or why we are here, or where we come from or where we are going. 

 

Dust to dust ????

[VincentRJ]

49 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, perhaps everything you say about bats and butterflies is true, but you know that because, as a human,  you are able to study other species, and build instruments to improve your studies.

I am quite sure that a butterfly,  with all its round eyes, antennas and special feet, would  not be able to describe all that in the same way which you did.

Obviously! Butterflies can't read and write and think like humans. However, if you are a human dreaming you are a butterfly, and then when you wake up you are not sure if you are actually a butterfly dreaming it is a human being, then surely that is equivalent to attributing human qualities of consciousness to a butterfly.

 

Can't you see the ridiculousness and absurdity of such a concept? ????

 

In other words, I dream I am a butterfly and feel happy, but I have no awareness or insight into the sensory characteristics of a butterfly. I then wake up and have a sensory awareness of my surroundings, such as sight, hearing, smell, touch, and can name the things I perceive, but for some crazy reason I think that I might actually be a butterfly that can think and see like a human in its dreams, and can ascribe Chinese words to the objects it sees in its dream. ????

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Obviously! Butterflies can't read and write and think like humans. However, if you are a human dreaming you are a butterfly, and then when you wake up you are not sure if you are actually a butterfly dreaming it is a human being, then surely that is equivalent to attributing human qualities of consciousness to a butterfly.

 

Can't you see the ridiculousness and absurdity of such a concept? ????

 

In other words, I dream I am a butterfly and feel happy, but I have no awareness or insight into the sensory characteristics of a butterfly. I then wake up and have a sensory awareness of my surroundings, such as sight, hearing, smell, touch, and can name the things I perceive, but for some crazy reason I think that I might actually be a butterfly that can think and see like a human in its dreams, and can ascribe Chinese words to the objects it sees in its dream. ????

Well, to be honest,  I agree with you  in that regard, it seems rather absurd.