Do you believe in God and why

[Fat is a type of crazy]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

A blip eh.. in my very personal point of view, profit rules the whole society worldwide,  and we haven't seen the worst yet. 

Religion was not a solution for healing the world's illness, but I can't see any improvement when money has become god. 

Seen some horrible examples of profit over people in Texas and other places recently. The way staff treated in meat packing plants during Covid. The way the power system maximised profit and didn't spend money leading to recent events.

Significant parts of religion  in America and particularly in the south is just as profit driven. 

On the positive side. New president. Maybe Texas will turn Blue. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sure- greed, lust, avarice, bread and circuses, machine warfare, bad food full of chemicals, poverty and starvation for some while others grow obese etc etc etc. I see nothing to say the modern new age is better than before personal computers were invented, and a lot is far, far worse, IMO.

I'm not OK with 10% of the population owning 70% of the wealth- are you?

No. Thailand has it's beautiful religion and has one of the highest proportions of wealth and power in the hands of the rich.

Australia's not bad though in comparison. I think life in Australia now is better than in the 50's. You might think otherwise but you'd be stuck with no communication, expensive or no flights to Thailand, less choice in food, morality and religion overbearing. Lots of goods sides too back then I'll give you that.

 

 

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

On the positive side. New president. Maybe Texas will turn Blue. 

Let's say that i would like to share you optimism, when Obama got elected I felt optimistic for 1 or 2 days too.

So, if even doctors and priests appear to be profit-driven,  you can imagine what about the rest, the only hope we have is some miracle to happen.

[Sunmaster]

Gosh...is this a gloomy Tuesday or what? ????

Just to restore a bit of balance and bring in a more positive outlook, I will say this...Yes, the world (meaning: people) has problems, there's no denying it, but we can choose to focus on what we can do to make the world a better place instead of worrying about the doom and gloom predictions, which we have no influence over anyways. 
Help out or donate money to an animal shelter. Help people in your neighborhood/town who are in need. Smile and offer kindness to those around you. Recycle your waste. Take care of the planet and yourself. Above all, seek that which promotes love and avoid that which generates fear.

 

I feel optimistic about the future. ????

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Gosh...is this a gloomy Tuesday or what? ????

Just to restore a bit of balance and bring in a more positive outlook, I will say this...Yes, the world (meaning: people) has problems, there's no denying it, but we can choose to focus on what we can do to make the world a better place instead of worrying about the doom and gloom predictions, which we have no influence over anyways. 
Help out or donate money to an animal shelter. Help people in your neighborhood/town who are in need. Smile and offer kindness to those around you. Recycle your waste. Take care of the planet and yourself. Above all, seek that which promotes love and avoid that which generates fear.

 

I feel optimistic about the future. ????

I have no problem with people doing good deeds, but I refer to the trends, and they are, IMO, going downwards- surveillance, theft of personal details on electronic communication, privatization of public facilities like water, increased poverty and homelessness, and poor people having children they can't support, by the millions- it's not good.

If we didn't take comfort in small things, the big things going on would make us crazy, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Thailand has it's beautiful religion

Really? Worshiping statues of elephants and suchlike makes them better people? Do tell.

My wife was a Buddhist, but it didn't stop her stealing from me at every opportunity. The wife of every farang with a hard luck story of being taken by a Thai family was probably a Buddhist, as were they.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think life in Australia now is better than in the 50's. You might think otherwise but you'd be stuck with no communication, expensive or no flights to Thailand, less choice in food, morality and religion overbearing.

Hmmmmm.

They had telephones in the 50s- I used them.

So people couldn't get cheap flights to Thailand- they couldn't get cheap flights anywhere, but they survived quite nicely. Ship was a great way to travel.

Food was far better as processed food was less available before supermarkets, and obesity wasn't a raging epidemic. Also sugar wasn't in everything.

Morality was at least in existence back then- seems to have vanished nowadays.

Yes, people went to church, and they also behaved better, were more conservative, less greedy, harder working, and money wasn't everything.

 

I'll take the 50s over now, thanks.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Really? Worshiping statues of elephants and suchlike makes them better people? Do tell.

My wife was a Buddhist, but it didn't stop her stealing from me at every opportunity. The wife of every farang with a hard luck story of being taken by a Thai family was probably a Buddhist, as were they.

That was my point.. I didn't say they were better people in fact I was pointing out the irony of the strength in religion in this country despite the financial extremes in the country. I'm not a big unions fan but here the  WORKERS NEED UNIONS.    

Thai buddhism and it has lots of positives though in my opinion  ..not sure what it is in Thailand that gives them that gentleness but the religion is probably a factor ..gives my girlfriend a peaceful outlook. 

She has strong sincere feelings about Ganesha and friends .. 

Like every religion the behaviour of some is a concern.. too much raising money to have the biggest temple, trying to get winning lotto numbers and naughty monks 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm.

They had telephones in the 50s- I used them.

So people couldn't get cheap flights to Thailand- they couldn't get cheap flights anywhere, but they survived quite nicely. Ship was a great way to travel.

Food was far better as processed food was less available before supermarkets, and obesity wasn't a raging epidemic. Also sugar wasn't in everything.

Morality was at least in existence back then- seems to have vanished nowadays.

Yes, people went to church, and they also behaved better, were more conservative, less greedy, harder working, and money wasn't everything.

 

I'll take the 50s over now, thanks.

But you couldn't  let it all out like this type of forum could you. You would have to shout at the dog. Food was better? My understanding is there was a lot of spam type meat and fatty foods and boring small range of overcooked vegetables. Good meat was expensive. No foreign food except may a chinese restaurant selling chop suey. A lot of processed sweet food now but it's called freedom of choice.

 

Better bring this back to religion - there was a bigger sense of community and friendly neighbours  - good for kids - brought together by the recent war and a good economy - just don't be an outsider. Be white and christian thanks. Not saying all people were that way because they weren't. 

Ask women who want to work, aborigines and gays how they feel about the 50's. 

I'm happy religions have less power. They did some good but could easily  hide their secrets. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I'm happy religions have less power. They did some good but could easily  hide their secrets. 

I was very much in agreement until the last sentence. 

Are you really convinced that only religion is hiding secrets?

Anyway it would be always better in general to weight carefully the pros and cons, before judging, and your post is doing a good job at that.

[Peter Denis]

7 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Interesting - thanks - I realised I had seen his Ted talk that had been banned. My issue with him is that, for example,  he is critical of what he calls 10 scientific dogmas. In science though there is just the latest theory which may or may not be correct. For example he says scientists have a dogma that the mind is in the brain - is that a dogma or just the most likely available theory. Then he makes claims against medical dogma. What are doctors to do but to go what works the best most of the time. Doctors would be happy to use crystals if they worked.  

He portrays scientists as closed minded about these dogmas but then comes up with alternatives that are interesting but have not been tested so are just ideas. In that sense I would see him as an interesting story teller and ideas person but not a scientist. Hopefully you can see why scientists would be turned off by his approach.

...

It is correct that Rupert Sheldrake researched what he calls 10 scientific dogmas.

But contrary to what you write - probably based on the TED Talk you saw - he is not a 'story teller' but a serious scientific researcher asking questions and conducting experimental research to test the validity of those dogmas.

Attached an excerpt from the introduction to his 2012 book 'The Science Delusion - Freeing the Spirit of Enquiry'

The biggest scientific delusion of all is that science already knows the answers. The details still need working out but, in principle, the fundamental questions are settled.
Contemporary science is based on the claim that all reality is material or physical. There is no reality but material reality. Consciousness is a by-product of the physical activity of the brain. Matter is unconscious. Evolution is purposeless. God exists only as an idea in human minds, and hence in human heads.
These beliefs are powerful, not because most scientists think about them critically but because they don’t. The facts of science are real enough; so are the techniques that scientists use, and the technologies based on them. But the belief system that governs conventional scientific thinking is an act of faith, grounded in a nineteenth-century ideology.
This book is pro-science. I want the sciences to be less dogmatic and more scientific. I believe that the sciences will be regenerated when they are liberated from the dogmas that constrict them.

 

These are the 10 scientific dogmas he addresses in this very interesting book and for which he did set up experiments to validate whether they are 'true'.

1 Is Nature Mechanical?
2 Is the Total Amount of Matter and Energy Always the Same?
3 Are the Laws of Nature Fixed?
4 Is Matter Unconscious?
5 Is Nature Purposeless?
6 Is All Biological Inheritance Material?
7 Are Memories Stored as Material Traces?
8 Are Minds Confined to Brains?
9 Are Psychic Phenomena Illusory?
10 Is Mechanistic Medicine the Only Kind that Really Works?

Chapter 9 is quite relevant for the discussion on psychic phenomena that you and @yodsaktriggered.

 

Note: You can download the full book for free as e-book or in PDF-format.

To save you the trouble of searching for it, I have attached the PDF-version here.

Thank you Google!

The Science Delusion ( PDFDrive ).pdf

Edited February 23, 2021 by Peter Denis

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

It is correct that Rupert Sheldrake researched what he calls 10 scientific dogmas.

But contrary to what you write - probably based on the TED Talk you saw - he is not a 'story teller' but a serious scientific researcher asking questions and conducting experimental research to test the validity of those dogmas.

Attached an excerpt from the introduction to his 2012 book 'The Science Delusion - Freeing the Spirit of Enquiry'

The biggest scientific delusion of all is that science already knows the answers. The details still need working out but, in principle, the fundamental questions are settled.
Contemporary science is based on the claim that all reality is material or physical. There is no reality but material reality. Consciousness is a by-product of the physical activity of the brain. Matter is unconscious. Evolution is purposeless. God exists only as an idea in human minds, and hence in human heads.
These beliefs are powerful, not because most scientists think about them critically but because they don’t. The facts of science are real enough; so are the techniques that scientists use, and the technologies based on them. But the belief system that governs conventional scientific thinking is an act of faith, grounded in a nineteenth-century ideology.
This book is pro-science. I want the sciences to be less dogmatic and more scientific. I believe that the sciences will be regenerated when they are liberated from the dogmas that constrict them.

 

These are the 10 scientific dogmas he addresses in this very interesting book and for which he did set up experiments to validate whether they are 'true'.

1 Is Nature Mechanical?
2 Is the Total Amount of Matter and Energy Always the Same?
3 Are the Laws of Nature Fixed?
4 Is Matter Unconscious?
5 Is Nature Purposeless?
6 Is All Biological Inheritance Material?
7 Are Memories Stored as Material Traces?
8 Are Minds Confined to Brains?
9 Are Psychic Phenomena Illusory?
10 Is Mechanistic Medicine the Only Kind that Really Works?

Chapter 9 is quite relevant for the discussion on psychic phenomena that you and @yodsaktriggered.

 

Note: You can download the full book for free as e-book or in PDF-format.

To save you the trouble of searching for it, I have attached the PDF-version here.

Thank you Google!

The Science Delusion ( PDFDrive ).pdf 1.98 MB · 2 downloads

Thanks. 

I looked at the first chapter and I feel I made a fair point. He seems good at showing what scientists  can't fully explain and comes up with alternative approaches but without actually testing such ideas. On the topic of science he quotes artists and philosophers that do not  appear to help in backing up his ideas.  He'll note some scientific theories but similarly they do not appear to prove his case. In that sense he is an ideas person and a story teller. He may be right but it is an idea only.

On the first topic 'Is Nature Mechanical?' he is critical of scientists who take the approach of basing their theories on the minimum of what we know, without explaining everything,  rather than say going for a broader unproven idea that may help explain unknowns like the human mind. He sees this as  dogmatic and conventional. 

He appears to conclude that, say, molecules could be living organisms, or the universe is a growing developing organism,  but if the chapter actually showed that to be the case - beyond an idea or a story - I missed it. 

To be fair these comments are based on a perusal and not an in depth assessment.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[VincentRJ]

15 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

It is correct that Rupert Sheldrake researched what he calls 10 scientific dogmas.

But contrary to what you write - probably based on the TED Talk you saw - he is not a 'story teller' but a serious scientific researcher asking questions and conducting experimental research to test the validity of those dogmas.

Attached an excerpt from the introduction to his 2012 book 'The Science Delusion - Freeing the Spirit of Enquiry'

The biggest scientific delusion of all is that science already knows the answers. The details still need working out but, in principle, the fundamental questions are settled.
Contemporary science is based on the claim that all reality is material or physical. There is no reality but material reality. Consciousness is a by-product of the physical activity of the brain. Matter is unconscious. Evolution is purposeless. God exists only as an idea in human minds, and hence in human heads.
These beliefs are powerful, not because most scientists think about them critically but because they don’t. The facts of science are real enough; so are the techniques that scientists use, and the technologies based on them. But the belief system that governs conventional scientific thinking is an act of faith, grounded in a nineteenth-century ideology.
This book is pro-science. I want the sciences to be less dogmatic and more scientific. I believe that the sciences will be regenerated when they are liberated from the dogmas that constrict them.

 

These are the 10 scientific dogmas he addresses in this very interesting book and for which he did set up experiments to validate whether they are 'true'.

1 Is Nature Mechanical?
2 Is the Total Amount of Matter and Energy Always the Same?
3 Are the Laws of Nature Fixed?
4 Is Matter Unconscious?
5 Is Nature Purposeless?
6 Is All Biological Inheritance Material?
7 Are Memories Stored as Material Traces?
8 Are Minds Confined to Brains?
9 Are Psychic Phenomena Illusory?
10 Is Mechanistic Medicine the Only Kind that Really Works?

Chapter 9 is quite relevant for the discussion on psychic phenomena that you and @yodsaktriggered.

 

Note: You can download the full book for free as e-book or in PDF-format.

To save you the trouble of searching for it, I have attached the PDF-version here.

Thank you Google!

The Science Delusion ( PDFDrive ).pdf 1.98 MB · 4 downloads

Thanks for the link to the PDF, Peter. My first impressions are that Rupert Sheldrake is very biased, as are most of us, and in fact all of us, at least to some degree. The scientific methodology attempts to overcome this bias, although I doubt it can completely eliminate it because all scientist are human beings, most with families to support, and/or ambitions to become famous and win a Nobel prize, or gain wealth or admiration from their colleagues, and so on.

 

In the preface to his book, Sheldrake mentions his academic background in Biology and Biochemistry. There is no mention of any qualifications in Physics which is a 'Hard' science. It's too simplistic to describe scientific disciplines as either 'hard' or 'soft'. As with most things, there is a continuum rather than an 'either/or' situation. Chemistry and Physics are clearly in the 'Hard' category, whereas Biology is in the 'Soft' category, although perhaps not as soft as Economics and Psychology.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Hard-Soft-Continuum-of-Academic-Disciplines_fig1_305060679

 

When I was at High School in England, many years ago, and moved into the 'A' Level stream in preparation for university, we were all given the choice of studying either Physics or Biology. We could not take on both subjects. I chose Physics and became rather good at it, sometimes becoming top of the class in exams. One of my best friends chose Biology because he wanted to become a Vet, and the reason he wanted a career as a Vet was because he enjoyed walking in the countryside and he imagined as a Vet he he would be called out to many farms to treat livestock. He later changed his mind and became a medical doctor.

 

Since Rupert Sheldrake was educated in England, he was probably given the same choice of either Biology or Physics. However, just in case there is any confusion about the hard/soft terminology, I'll provide my own interpretation. 'Soft' in this context does not mean easy, as opposed to 'hard' which is difficult. The 'Hard' sciences in one sense are in fact easier because the subjects and circumstances investigated allow for the full application of the 'Methodology of Science', which is repeated experimentation under controlled conditions, changing one variable at a time in order to observe the effect of that one variable or factor.

 

In disciplines such as Biology, Medicine, Economics, Psychology, Climatology, and so on, it's often not possible to simulate the real conditions in a laboratory and change one variable at a time, because of the complexity of so many interacting factors, and the long time-scales involved before meaningful results can be observed, and sometimes ethical concerns which prohibit certain experiments.

 

In other words, in the 'Soft' sciences in general, there is much more uncertainty. Perhaps Sheldrake's biggest mistake was opting for Biology instead of Physics. ????
 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

But you couldn't  let it all out like this type of forum could you. You would have to shout at the dog. Food was better? My understanding is there was a lot of spam type meat and fatty foods and boring small range of overcooked vegetables. Good meat was expensive. No foreign food except may a chinese restaurant selling chop suey. A lot of processed sweet food now but it's called freedom of choice.

 

Better bring this back to religion - there was a bigger sense of community and friendly neighbours  - good for kids - brought together by the recent war and a good economy - just don't be an outsider. Be white and christian thanks. Not saying all people were that way because they weren't. 

Ask women who want to work, aborigines and gays how they feel about the 50's. 

I'm happy religions have less power. They did some good but could easily  hide their secrets. 

Depends on which country you are talking about, re food.

 

Like most that take the contrary view on God, you keep talking about religion- "Better bring this back to religion"! In case you hadn't noticed, some of us haven't been discussing religion for a very long time now, including myself. I have no interest in talking about it, thanks. I am interested in spirituality though, which is the only reason I'm still on this thread.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

And in the meantime...Mars.

I recommend looking for the full 360degree picture online. Simply breathtaking.

 

[Elad]

Nice pic, but I think the sky has been added to make it look better. To get that much detail in the sky with all those stars would require long exposures, and with long exposures the ground would be a blur. I don't think the rovers is equiped for astro images, its main objective is to find signs of microbial life that we think might have existed on Mars in the past. The rover is also equiped with a drone helicopter, Imagine trying to control it with a 10 minute signal delay. ????

[Sunmaster]

6 minutes ago, Elad said:

Nice pic, but I think the sky has been added to make it look better. To get that much detail in the sky with all those stars would require long exposures, and with long exposures the ground would be a blur. I don't think the rovers is equiped for astro images, its main objective is to find signs of microbial life that we think might have existed on Mars in the past. The rover is also equiped with a drone helicopter, Imagine trying to control it with a 10 minute signal delay. ????

Yes, I think it's probably a composite pic. Still amazing though. ????

[yodsak]

On 2/23/2021 at 5:19 AM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Some things help people get through the day and keep them connected so that's fine. But it can get nasty if you put reality to the side for too long - look at the modern new age - anti vaccine, anti 5G, turning into QANON and all sorts of total illogical nonsense in my opinion.

Indeed.

2012 phenomenon. Acupuncture. Adrenal fatigue. Alchemy. Alternative medicine. Ancient astronauts. Anthroposophic medicine. Applied kinesiology. Aquatic ape hypothesis. Astrology. Bates method. Biodynamic agriculture. Biorhythms. Bloodletting. Body memory. Breatharianism. Catastrophism. Chiropractic. Chromotherapy. Conspiracy theory .[ 5G conspiracy. 9/11 conspiracy theories. Chemtrail conspiracy theory. Moon landing conspiracy theories.] Climate change denial. COVID-19 misinformation. Conversion therapy. Correactology. Creation science. Cryonics.. Cryptozoology. Crystal healing… Cupping. Detoxification [ Colon cleansing..] Dianetics. Doctrine of signatures. Doktor Koster's Antigaspills. Dowsing.. Ear candling. Electromagnetic hypersensitivity. Electronic voice phenomenon. Eugenics. Facilitated communication. Feng shui. Flat Earth theory. Germ theory denialism. Graphology. HIV/AIDS denialism. Hollow Earth theory. Homeopathy.  Humorism. Indigo children. Intelligent design. Irreducible complexity. Japhetic theory. Levitation. Lunar effect. Lysenkoism.. Magnet therapy. Mediumship. Miracle Mineral Supplement. Morphic Resonance. Naturopathy. Nibiru cataclysm. Numerology. Orgone. Palmistry. Panchagavya. Patent medicine.. Perpetual motion. Phrenology. Polygraph. Primal therapy. Pseudoarchaeology. Pseudohistory Pseudoscientific metrology. Psychohistory. Pyramidology.. Quantum mysticism. Rapid prompting method. Recovered-memory therapy. Reiki. Scientific racism [Aryan race .Melanin theory]. Spiritualism. Statement analysis. Trepanning. Ufology. Vertebral subluxation. Voice stress analysis. Water memory.

 

  'Inspect every piece of pseudoscience and you will find a security blanket, a thumb to suck, a skirt to hold''

-- Isaac Asimov's remark about the infantilism of pseudoscience.

[yodsak]

 It’s a buffet-table approach to religion and spirituality, and it’s a credulous disaster to understanding the material and physical world. A hodge podge. A dog’s dinner. A word salad of misused scientific and spiritualistic terminology, a retarded Quasimodo, a mad, drooling, incestuous b@$t@rd offspring of pseudoscience and pseudotheology, pimped by frauds and scam artists to sell books full of gibberish and quartz crystal necklaces.  —Ralph Hayes on the New Age Movement.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, yodsak said:

 It’s a buffet-table approach to religion and spirituality, and it’s a credulous disaster to understanding the material and physical world. A hodge podge. A dog’s dinner. A word salad of misused scientific and spiritualistic terminology, a retarded Quasimodo, a mad, drooling, incestuous b@$t@rd offspring of pseudoscience and pseudotheology, pimped by frauds and scam artists to sell books full of gibberish and quartz crystal necklaces.  —Ralph Hayes on the New Age Movement.

Just as well than that none of the long stayers on this thread appear to be part of that, then.

My mother was, but I'm not.

I put that in the same category as religion, and some of us ain't discussing religion on here.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Elad said:

The rover is also equiped with a drone helicopter, Imagine trying to control it with a 10 minute signal delay.

I'm pretty certain they have pre programmed commands that guide it. No way one could direct control, IMO.

[Peter Denis]

4 hours ago, yodsak said:

Indeed.

2012 phenomenon. Acupuncture. Adrenal fatigue. Alchemy. Alternative medicine. Ancient astronauts. Anthroposophic medicine. Applied kinesiology. Aquatic ape hypothesis. Astrology. Bates method. Biodynamic agriculture. Biorhythms. Bloodletting. Body memory. Breatharianism. Catastrophism. Chiropractic. Chromotherapy. Conspiracy theory .[ 5G conspiracy. 9/11 conspiracy theories. Chemtrail conspiracy theory. Moon landing conspiracy theories.] Climate change denial. COVID-19 misinformation. Conversion therapy. Correactology. Creation science. Cryonics.. Cryptozoology. Crystal healing… Cupping. Detoxification [ Colon cleansing..] Dianetics. Doctrine of signatures. Doktor Koster's Antigaspills. Dowsing.. Ear candling. Electromagnetic hypersensitivity. Electronic voice phenomenon. Eugenics. Facilitated communication. Feng shui. Flat Earth theory. Germ theory denialism. Graphology. HIV/AIDS denialism. Hollow Earth theory. Homeopathy.  Humorism. Indigo children. Intelligent design. Irreducible complexity. Japhetic theory. Levitation. Lunar effect. Lysenkoism.. Magnet therapy. Mediumship. Miracle Mineral Supplement. Morphic Resonance. Naturopathy. Nibiru cataclysm. Numerology. Orgone. Palmistry. Panchagavya. Patent medicine.. Perpetual motion. Phrenology. Polygraph. Primal therapy. Pseudoarchaeology. Pseudohistory Pseudoscientific metrology. Psychohistory. Pyramidology.. Quantum mysticism. Rapid prompting method. Recovered-memory therapy. Reiki. Scientific racism [Aryan race .Melanin theory]. Spiritualism. Statement analysis. Trepanning. Ufology. Vertebral subluxation. Voice stress analysis. Water memory.

 

  'Inspect every piece of pseudoscience and you will find a security blanket, a thumb to suck, a skirt to hold''

-- Isaac Asimov's remark about the infantilism of pseudoscience.

Reminds me of the saying that where there is fake gold, that only proves that there is also - more rare - real gold to be found.

[mauGR1]

6 hours ago, yodsak said:

Indeed.

2012 phenomenon. Acupuncture. Adrenal fatigue. Alchemy. Alternative medicine. Ancient astronauts. Anthroposophic medicine. Applied kinesiology. Aquatic ape hypothesis. Astrology. Bates method. Biodynamic agriculture. Biorhythms. Bloodletting. Body memory. Breatharianism. Catastrophism. Chiropractic. Chromotherapy. Conspiracy theory .[ 5G conspiracy. 9/11 conspiracy theories. Chemtrail conspiracy theory. Moon landing conspiracy theories.] Climate change denial. COVID-19 misinformation. Conversion therapy. Correactology. Creation science. Cryonics.. Cryptozoology. Crystal healing… Cupping. Detoxification [ Colon cleansing..] Dianetics. Doctrine of signatures. Doktor Koster's Antigaspills. Dowsing.. Ear candling. Electromagnetic hypersensitivity. Electronic voice phenomenon. Eugenics. Facilitated communication. Feng shui. Flat Earth theory. Germ theory denialism. Graphology. HIV/AIDS denialism. Hollow Earth theory. Homeopathy.  Humorism. Indigo children. Intelligent design. Irreducible complexity. Japhetic theory. Levitation. Lunar effect. Lysenkoism.. Magnet therapy. Mediumship. Miracle Mineral Supplement. Morphic Resonance. Naturopathy. Nibiru cataclysm. Numerology. Orgone. Palmistry. Panchagavya. Patent medicine.. Perpetual motion. Phrenology. Polygraph. Primal therapy. Pseudoarchaeology. Pseudohistory Pseudoscientific metrology. Psychohistory. Pyramidology.. Quantum mysticism. Rapid prompting method. Recovered-memory therapy. Reiki. Scientific racism [Aryan race .Melanin theory]. Spiritualism. Statement analysis. Trepanning. Ufology. Vertebral subluxation. Voice stress analysis. Water memory.

 

  'Inspect every piece of pseudoscience and you will find a security blanket, a thumb to suck, a skirt to hold''

-- Isaac Asimov's remark about the infantilism of pseudoscience.

It's kind of funny that to promote some scientific righteousness, you are quoting a science-fiction novelist. 

Yet i wonder if you can get the irony ????

[Sunmaster]

7 hours ago, yodsak said:

Indeed.

2012 phenomenon. Acupuncture. Adrenal fatigue. Alchemy. Alternative medicine. Ancient astronauts. Anthroposophic medicine. Applied kinesiology. Aquatic ape hypothesis. Astrology. Bates method. Biodynamic agriculture. Biorhythms. Bloodletting. Body memory. Breatharianism. Catastrophism. Chiropractic. Chromotherapy. Conspiracy theory .[ 5G conspiracy. 9/11 conspiracy theories. Chemtrail conspiracy theory. Moon landing conspiracy theories.] Climate change denial. COVID-19 misinformation. Conversion therapy. Correactology. Creation science. Cryonics.. Cryptozoology. Crystal healing… Cupping. Detoxification [ Colon cleansing..] Dianetics. Doctrine of signatures. Doktor Koster's Antigaspills. Dowsing.. Ear candling. Electromagnetic hypersensitivity. Electronic voice phenomenon. Eugenics. Facilitated communication. Feng shui. Flat Earth theory. Germ theory denialism. Graphology. HIV/AIDS denialism. Hollow Earth theory. Homeopathy.  Humorism. Indigo children. Intelligent design. Irreducible complexity. Japhetic theory. Levitation. Lunar effect. Lysenkoism.. Magnet therapy. Mediumship. Miracle Mineral Supplement. Morphic Resonance. Naturopathy. Nibiru cataclysm. Numerology. Orgone. Palmistry. Panchagavya. Patent medicine.. Perpetual motion. Phrenology. Polygraph. Primal therapy. Pseudoarchaeology. Pseudohistory Pseudoscientific metrology. Psychohistory. Pyramidology.. Quantum mysticism. Rapid prompting method. Recovered-memory therapy. Reiki. Scientific racism [Aryan race .Melanin theory]. Spiritualism. Statement analysis. Trepanning. Ufology. Vertebral subluxation. Voice stress analysis. Water memory.

 

  'Inspect every piece of pseudoscience and you will find a security blanket, a thumb to suck, a skirt to hold''

-- Isaac Asimov's remark about the infantilism of pseudoscience.

While I admire Asimov for his contribution to sci-fi (which I love), and I agree with the general statement that everything (not just pseudoscience) has to be investigated and can be a security blanket (just like science can be), the list you provided here is just a mish mash that only shows how little knowledge the list maker (who??) has of these fields.

I never heard of the majority of them, but putting acupuncture (a form of alternative medicine, nowadays practiced by conventional doctors) or biodynamic agriculture (holistic, ecological, and ethical approach to farming) or graphology (used in criminology for example) together with dianetics or 9/11 conspiracies is simply ridiculous.



 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Sunmaster

[Fat is a type of crazy]

18 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

While I admire Asimov for his contribution to sci-fi (which I love), and I agree with the general statement that everything (not just pseudoscience) has to be investigated and can be a security blanket (just like science can be), the list you provided here is just a mish mash that only shows how little knowledge the list maker (who??) has of these fields.

I never heard of the majority of them, but putting acupuncture (a form of alternative medicine, nowadays practiced by conventional doctors) or biodynamic agriculture (holistic, ecological, and ethical approach to farming) or graphology (used in criminology for example) together with dianetics or 9/11 conspiracies is simply ridiculous.



 

It is good not to throw out the baby with the bathwater in such a discussion. But that list has a pretty good strike rate in my opinion. Not much baby and lots of bathwater. 

[Sunmaster]

3 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

It is good not to throw out the baby with the bathwater in such a discussion. But that list has a pretty good strike rate in my opinion. Not much baby and lots of bathwater. 

How many of those things listed do you know and have studied/researched?

Also funny that cryonics is in there as well. ????

Edited February 25, 2021 by Sunmaster

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

How many of those things listed do you know and have studied/researched?

Also funny that cryonics is in there as well. ????

You have indicated about 4 per cent have merit to your knowledge. Of those Acupuncture and graphology are considered psuedosciences i.e. not based on modern scientific knowledge. Though I concur that they are considered more likely to have merit than many others. 

I have heard of a significant proportion, and of those, I consider he has a good strike rate. I could study those I have heard off further,  e.g. breatharianism, or a  basic summary might be sufficient to know you can leave it there. 

Some are related like homeopathy and water memory.  

Of those I haven't heard of I might make an inference by their name e.g. Doktor Koster's Antigaspills and Miracle Mineral Supplement.  Your point is fair that because he has listed many dodgy things the other ones might be too. There may be a diamond in the rough in there. Maybe Lysenkoism has the answers I have been looking for. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

You have indicated about 4 per cent have merit to your knowledge.

I just mentioned a few, but I would include chiropractic, Chromotherapy, Feng shui, Mediumship, Naturopathy, Numerology and Water memory as those fields I know a bit more of, have had first hand experience with, or deem more interesting and worth considering.
 

[Sunmaster]

It is true though that with spiritualism first (around 1900) and later from the 60's onwards, the New Age movement has gained worldwide popularity, and as it happens with everything mainstream, a lot of "bathwater" was produced. 
I think this was an inevitable and quite natural development that was the result of a reaction to the overly mechanistic approach to science and medicine, searching for a more holistic way of interacting with our bodies and world in general. 
It's like a pendulum that first went into one extreme of scientific breakthroughs, medical advances and exponential technological progress, which got people disconnected from nature, just for people to rebel against that paradigm and search for something that would include other sides of the human condition (the interconnectivity of all life, the exploration of consciousness, the mystery of LIFE...).

So, yes...a lot of unicorn riding yoga aunties, dangerous sectarian groups and mind-boggling workshops came out of it, but let's not forget all the good that this movement produced also: the ecological movement, new ways of dealing with mental illness, freedom of expression, increasing acceptance of minorities (be they sexual, racial or cultural), embracing diversity in all of its forms and many other things.

The pendulum never stops. Maybe more than a pendulum, we could see it as a rising spiral, because the pendulum always oscillates between 2 points. In life though, lessons are learned and when we advance, we try to take the good things up to the next level.

I think it's important to look at the bigger picture here.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Sunmaster

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

You have indicated about 4 per cent have merit to your knowledge. Of those Acupuncture and graphology are considered psuedosciences i.e. not based on modern scientific knowledge. Though I concur that they are considered more likely to have merit than many others. 

I have heard of a significant proportion, and of those, I consider he has a good strike rate. I could study those I have heard off further,  e.g. breatharianism, or a  basic summary might be sufficient to know you can leave it there. 

Some are related like homeopathy and water memory.  

Of those I haven't heard of I might make an inference by their name e.g. Doktor Koster's Antigaspills and Miracle Mineral Supplement.  Your point is fair that because he has listed many dodgy things the other ones might be too. There may be a diamond in the rough in there. Maybe Lysenkoism has the answers I have been looking for. 

Perhaps you'd like to comment on scientists that declared sugar and smoking didn't harm us.

Given the power of thought, IMO anything that promotes hope and a possible good outcome is OK as long as it doesn't harm. Reiki may not work, but it doesn't hurt anyone, and if they feel better for it why not. Often times people turn to alternative medicine because conventional medicine has failed. I was harmed for life by surgeons doing unnecessary surgery, and my brother may have been killed by medical incompetence- it's no wonder my mother hated doctors and turned to alternatives.