England.

[bendix]

Am I a racist? as much as the next man.

I beg to differ

[samran]

you've just contradicted yourself there. On one hand you ask everyone here to look at your situation individually, which is what should be done. We could have just charged you as being another poverty packing visa runner.

Having done that, you turn around asking what appears to be a rhetorical question and slag off a 'majority' of immigrants to the UK? Does this include Thai spouses, or are they OK? I mean, they get instant access to NHS etc without ever having contributed...

I was an immigrant to the UK. Am I a welfare cheat?...I mean I hold an Australian and Thai passport, got to use the NHS extensively, got to vote in your elections as a non-citizen. I am a bit of a mix, but could be confused as a 'paki so and so' by some of your equally analytical friends.

As for the person who says what is racism....well put it this way, you know it when you see it.

Did you go to England as an immigrant to get a job? why? were you provided with free accommodation? money for your your family? etc.etc... or did you have to stand on your own two feet? the 'majority' I am complaining about are the people who see England as a free ride.

Am I a racist? as much as the next man.

Yes I went for a job. I arrived without one though. I got a job that presumably another english person could of done...but I'd never know as I was better than all the other people who applied. So I probably 'took' a job away from someone depending on your perspective. Why did I go? Thought it might be a lark to live there for a couple of years, earn lots of pounds and then spend them travelling.

In the main, I earnt money, paid a fair chunk of taxes and NI which I'll never see (ie subsidising your pension actually - as I'll never qualify for a UK pension), spent most of the rest in the UK, paying VAT etc. This something important to rememeber about immigration to places like the UK, Australia etc. Immigrants pay into social welfare systems and actually help prop up, or subsidise the older generation of natives who had paid into social welfare. It is called inter-generational transfer of wealth. Also, spending my money there, presumably I helped create jobs for others...something which is never mentioned.

Did I get free accomadation etc? No...but I suspect like most people who arrive in the UK...I had no recourse to public funds even though I was allowed to work. This is another key point. Most immigrants to the UK don't have recourse to public funds (unless they are 'old member' EU nationals). Refugees might, but they don't constitute the bulk of the UK intake by any means. And, refugees do have work rights (albeit temporary while their case is asssed), so they productively contrinute to the economy one would have though (presumably like you do to the Thai economy).

So again, you gonna tar us with the same brush? Or, is it now just the refugee who is the target?

[wolf359]

Am I a racist? as much as the next man.

I beg to differ

Just your opinion. is it racist to stand up for your country?

[wolf359]

you've just contradicted yourself there. On one hand you ask everyone here to look at your situation individually, which is what should be done. We could have just charged you as being another poverty packing visa runner.

Having done that, you turn around asking what appears to be a rhetorical question and slag off a 'majority' of immigrants to the UK? Does this include Thai spouses, or are they OK? I mean, they get instant access to NHS etc without ever having contributed...

I was an immigrant to the UK. Am I a welfare cheat?...I mean I hold an Australian and Thai passport, got to use the NHS extensively, got to vote in your elections as a non-citizen. I am a bit of a mix, but could be confused as a 'paki so and so' by some of your equally analytical friends.

As for the person who says what is racism....well put it this way, you know it when you see it.

Did you go to England as an immigrant to get a job? why? were you provided with free accommodation? money for your your family? etc.etc... or did you have to stand on your own two feet? the 'majority' I am complaining about are the people who see England as a free ride.

Am I a racist? as much as the next man.

Yes I went for a job. I arrived without one though. I got a job that presumably another english person could of done...but I'd never know as I was better than all the other people who applied. So I probably 'took' a job away from someone depending on your perspective. Why did I go? Thought it might be a lark to live there for a couple of years, earn lots of pounds and then spend them travelling.

In the main, I earnt money, paid a fair chunk of taxes and NI which I'll never see (ie subsidising your pension actually - as I'll never qualify for a UK pension), spent most of the rest in the UK, paying VAT etc. This something important to rememeber about immigration to places like the UK, Australia etc. Immigrants pay into social welfare systems and actually help prop up, or subsidise the older generation of natives who had paid into social welfare. It is called inter-generational transfer of wealth. Also, spending my money there, presumably I helped create jobs for others...something which is never mentioned.

Did I get free accomadation etc? No...but I suspect like most people who arrive in the UK...I had no recourse to public funds even though I was allowed to work. This is another key point. Most immigrants to the UK don't have recourse to public funds (unless they are 'old member' EU nationals). Refugees might, but they don't constitute the bulk of the UK intake by any means. And, refugees do have work rights (albeit temporary while their case is asssed), so they productively contrinute to the economy one would have though (presumably like you do to the Thai economy).

So again, you gonna tar us with the same brush? Or, is it now just the refugee who is the target?

How long has it been since you spent any time in England?

[samran]

I still come and go my friend. Was there in December most recently for work.

15 months since I moved back to LOS (for work) and I have maintain interests there still (and still pay some of your taxes).....so I wouldn't be investing there and maintaining a presence there if I thought the place was going to the crapper.

UK for me is still a nice place for things, which is why me and others want to go there.

[mrbojangles]

A lot of points i agree with in this topic and alot i think are absolute tosh.

But one point i gotta defend is to those who slag off the NHS. Yes there are problems in the NHS but on the rare occasion i have had to use them they have been great. In Thailand you pay or don't get treated as is the same in the US and many many more countries. Here it is free 9although funded by our contributions) but at least everyone is entitled to it, not just the rich or those with insurance.

BTW, i don't work for the NHS, i'm just someone who has had to use their services.

[wolf359]

I still come and go my friend. Was there in December most recently for work.

15 months since I moved back to LOS (for work) and I have maintain interests there still (and still pay some of your taxes).....so I wouldn't be investing there and maintaining a presence there if I thought the place was going to the crapper.

UK for me is still a nice place for things, which is why me and others want to go there.

Fair enough, but lets have this diccussion in 10-15 years time when Australia has more than its fair share of immigrants, lets see if your opinions change then

[samran]

I still come and go my friend. Was there in December most recently for work.

15 months since I moved back to LOS (for work) and I have maintain interests there still (and still pay some of your taxes).....so I wouldn't be investing there and maintaining a presence there if I thought the place was going to the crapper.

UK for me is still a nice place for things, which is why me and others want to go there.

Fair enough, but lets have this diccussion in 10-15 years time when Australia has more than its fair share of immigrants, lets see if your opinions change then

Lets have it now. Australia is a nation of migrants. Has been since the year dot. But, we've run an immigration system pretty much since the 50's and taken loads of non-europeans since the Brits decided to turn to the EU.

We take in roughly 200K migrants per year. Roughly half skilled, the other half family reunion. Not bad for 20 million people. It is roughly the same size as the UK immigraion programme I think, but you have 60-odd million. One in four Australians are born overseas.

Not to say we don't have problems. My point it is mainly attitudinal thing.

Some of the biggest supporters of middle eastern refugees in Australia (read muslims) has come from the country (read conservative) heart of Australia. Why? These refugees moved there, started fruit picking, working in abbatioirs, basically provided labour to the local economy which they were crying out for.

Problems yes...Sydney 2005 with race riots there. For that, see my earlier post on poverty and the cyclical nature of disenfranchising certain groups. One group of insular lebanese Australians up against a bunch on insular yobbo australians who think that one of the shires was for their own personal use.

[wolf359]

Lets have it now. Australia is a nation of migrants. Has been since the year dot. But, we've run an immigration system pretty much since the 50's and taken loads of non-europeans since the Brits decided to turn to the EU.

We take in roughly 200K migrants per year. Roughly half skilled, the other half family reunion. Not bad for 20 million people. It is roughly the same size as the UK immigraion programme I think, but you have 60-odd million. One in four Australians are born overseas.

Not to say we don't have problems. My point it is mainly attitudinal thing.

Some of the biggest supporters of middle eastern refugees in Australia (read muslims) has come from the country (read conservative) heart of Australia. Why? These refugees moved there, started fruit picking, working in abbatioirs, basically provided labour to the local economy which they were crying out for.

Problems yes...Sydney 2005 with race riots there. For that, see my earlier post on poverty and the cyclical nature of disenfranchising certain groups. One group of insular lebanese Australians up against a bunch on insular yobbo australians who think that one of the shires was for their own personal use.

My point exactly, England is a small island taking the same amount of migrants as Australia, now lets say for the sake of argument Austraila now takes 800k per year, year on year, after all you do have all that space! I am sure peoples views on this matter will soon change. there is no point in ducking this issue by burying your head in the sand or call people racist because they bring this problem up that has never solved anything.

[atlastaname]

I am surprised by the many comments blaming all the woes of the UK on the immigrants.

To those who say the economy is in a mess are totally wrong of course. The economy is going very well , people's standard of living is almost so high it is difficult to see how it could go any higher. I admit i am from the SE but i doubt the situation is so different elsewhere. People here have so much cash they don't have enough time to spend it all on a saturday night . The expensive bars and restaurants are crowded to bursting , the number of new cars on the street amazes me , the house prices(which BTW is the generator for all this) are booming AND will continue to do so. All this wealth has bred arrogance and impatience for everything and everybody.

As for the immigrants, in my experience they are mostly polite and far more caring. The yobs who do all the damage are the spoilt mostly young UK yobs. So lets say it how it is ...its our own wonderful UK citizens who are spoiling the country , coupled with a government who wants to make everything illegal to pander to the press. Why does anyone care if a few hundred illegals are here working ?? Big Deal!!! It doesn't affect anyone , the country has enough wealth to shoulder it all. Stop pandering to kids and get them out to work earning their expensive lifestyles , now that WOULD help!!!

[mrbojangles]

The yobs who do all the damage are the spoilt mostly young UK yobs. So lets say it how it is ...its our own wonderful UK citizens who are spoiling the country

Sorry Atlastaname but i believe your wrong. If you have any stats for that, i am prepared to be proved wrong.

Why does anyone care if a few hundred illegals are here working ?? Big Deal!!! It doesn't affect anyone ,

For one, human rights care, remember the Chinese cockle pickers. Many others have no choice but to work for penny's by greedy employers.

[samran]

My point exactly, England is a small island taking the same amount of migrants as Australia, now lets say for the sake of argument Austraila now takes 800k per year, year on year, after all you do have all that space! I am sure peoples views on this matter will soon change. there is no point in ducking this issue by burying your head in the sand or call people racist because they bring this problem up that has never solved anything.

umm, you have it the wrong way around. UK, with its bigger economy (you are a G8 economy) and better public infrastructure and larger population (and no lack of water) shouldn't have too much of a physical problem in absorbing this amount of people. You also have to remember, people leave the UK, they die, and you aren't reproducing fast enough to naturally (like all western countries).

you can't look at it one dimensionally.

you also need a better system to issue work permits for the industries that need people. So, those cockel pickers could have been protected by the law instead of hiding from it.

Australia, is alot of desert. It runs an immigration intake based on skill sets that the country needs. It takes what the economy demands plus family reunion. And we let kiwi's in for nothing. Frankly, if Australia didn't take these people in, our economy would be alot worse off than it is now. No shortage of jobs for sparkies and plumbers in Australia, and resident permits to go with them....

[MarkBKK]

I am surprised by the many comments blaming all the woes of the UK on the immigrants.

I'm not surprised, I'm f*cking f*rious. (Sorry atlastaname, not directed at you.) More than any other country (ever, go on check it out) England is a nation of mongrels. I'm proud of that, and I'm proud that that's my England, and I'm proud to be a mongrel. What makes me ashamed and want to crawl under a rock and hide is the attitude that some posters have (proudly?) displayed. That's the attitude that has been fostered/encouraged since 1979. And it makes me very sad.

I suppose it's true -- patriotism (of that kind) truly is the last refuge of scoundrels.

PS Oh, atlastaname, I find it hard to believe that your statement ''The yobs who do all the damage are the spoilt mostly young UK yobs'' can be wrong. Look at the percentages: 99.999999999999999999999999999999 per cent are yobs with UK passports (leaving roughly .000000000000000000000000000001 per cent ''immigrant'' yobs). Therefore you are correct and so-called ''Mr Bojangles'' is talking out of his big bottom (and grammatically incorrect ... ''your wrong'' indeed. Sounds like an non-native speaking immigrant to me! String 'em up! It's the only language they understand! Nurse! Nurse! Help me!)

[GuestHouse]

Did you go to England as an immigrant to get a job? why? were you provided with free accommodation? money for your your family? etc.etc... or did you have to stand on your own two feet? the 'majority' I am complaining about are the people who see England as a free ride.

Am I a racist? as much as the next man.

As the son of immigrants to the UK I can assure you Wolfy, my parents arrived in the UK fully educated, fully self funding and looked after themselves and their family without ever putting a hand out for welfare, housing or any other of the gobshite accusations you lay on foreigners.

The company I work for, is an immigrant company, doing over GBP 4 billion a year of business in the UK, the majority of our 3000+ staff are immigrants to the UK - All come fully educated and pay their own way from the moment they arrive + lots of taxes to the state.

The UK health service that you'll drag your sorry @ss to when the inevitable happens, is staffed by huge numbers of foreigners, ranging from cleaning staff to the very best of NHS Consultant Doctors - The NHS would collapse without foreigners.

Meanwhile, while the UK economy is booming and while there is a shortage of skilled workers in almost all sectors there is an underclass of UK citizens who refuse to work. You'll find them all over the country, British citizens who refuse to get of their backsides and work - Why should they, they can claim welfare.

Unemployment among immigrants is virtually zero - They come to the UK for jobs not welfare.

And they are doing a great job at contributing and ensuring Britain remains competitive, that British commerce and industry has the right people with the right skills.

I might add that immigrants are also having a remarkable impact on the look of Britain, there’s actually a chance you might see a good looking person there now days.

What is for sure immigrants are having a hugely beneficial impact on the UK in every aspect of UK life. Yes, life in the UK is changing and yes I understand people like yourself can’t keep up. Tough on you, but no real loss to the UK when you left.

Britain has changed bar stool bigots are no longer in demand.

[qwertz]

Irony lives.

A Brit living in Thailand complains about foreigners going to live in the UK.

Come on guys own up, you were on the soda when you posted such half baked nonsense.

Sober up now and get your head around the idea that this England/Britain that you are so happy to run down is exactly where you'll drag your sorry @ss if and when your life in Thailand goes down the pan.

Not me, GH, I'm an expat too. I made my choice 17 years ago, there's no going back for me. I'd rather trust Germany to look after my welfare when I finally need it. But you 're right in one respect, home is where they have to take you in when you've nowhere else to go.

[billaaa777]

Well soccer does suck, I mean really why don't you just put the camera in the middle of the field and watch the grass grow. Be much more exciting. Please explain how you can have game after game when nobody scores. What could be worse? And just to make it a little bit more exciting, since nobody ever scores, we will have off sides, just in case anybody gets close to scoring. But the biggest joke of it all is all the fake dives everybody does, and that’s the only way anybody scores. It sucks so much.

[GuestHouse]

And I'll add another observation.

My parents, and particularly my father had nothing but praise for the British and the warm generous welcome that they received when they came to England.

As my father often said, the British are the most civilized nation on the planet and they prove it by living their morals.

This is seen here in the comments of other Brits who are not only proud of their country but proud to welcome foreigners in the same way my parents were welcomed forty years or more ago.

These are the very best traits that Britain and the British had and still have.

It is that welcome and that inclusiveness that gave my family the marvelous opportunity of enjoying life in the UK and contributing to life in the UK.

And this is no fault or weakness; it is a strength that pays huge dividends.

I'm the son of immigrants to the UK; I love the UK, particularly England. I'm proud to be part of the UK and I'm proud to call myself an Englishman.

Of course I accept there are bitter bigots who spout their language of fear/envy/hatred.

But nobody really listens to them: they've nothing to contribute, I doubt very much they ever had.

[mrbojangles]

The yobs who do all the damage are the spoilt mostly young UK yobs. So lets say it how it is ...its our own wonderful UK citizens who are spoiling the country

Sorry Atlastaname but i believe your wrong. If you have any stats for that, i am prepared to be proved wrong.

I am surprised by the many comments blaming all the woes of the UK on the immigrants.

PS Oh, atlastaname, I find it hard to believe that your statement ''The yobs who do all the damage are the spoilt mostly young UK yobs'' can be wrong. Look at the percentages: 99.999999999999999999999999999999 per cent are yobs with UK passports (leaving roughly .000000000000000000000000000001 per cent ''immigrant'' yobs). Therefore you are correct and so-called ''Mr Bojangles''

What do you mean by "So called MrBojangles". Look at my post, i said give me stats and i am prepared to be proven wrong, so give me the stats and try to stop being so personal.

Also, what has a UK passport holder got to do with it. Many migrants come here and after a 5 or so years they get a UK passport. All i'm asking for is stats to support yuor claim that 99.999999999999999999999999% of yobs are born and bred british. If you look at Atlastanames post he differentiated between immmigrants and UK citizens.

is talking out of his big bottom (and grammatically incorrect ... ''your wrong'' indeed. Sounds like an non-native speaking immigrant to me! String 'em up! It's the only language they understand! Nurse! Nurse! Help me!)

As for this, go and have a coffeee or something and calm down

[Briggsy]

The "me first" culture.

[coldcrush]

some pommies come to paradise in QLD, australia, to live just to get away from their wretched motherland.

Who you calling a pommie, you off breed of criminals.

Anyways I can fly back and forward to any sunny land and still be back to jump on my mountain bike to cycle throught Keswick on a sunny or frosty day, something you so called people of better climates will never come close to or see the beauty of. So keep ya lizards and snakes and give me a nice drop down a mountain on a frosty day!

Keswick

PS. Still building another house in Thailand tho! lol

Edited March 7, 2007 by lopburiguy

[markr]

Well soccer does suck, I mean really why don't you just put the camera in the middle of the field and watch the grass grow. Be much more exciting. Please explain how you can have game after game when nobody scores. What could be worse? And just to make it a little bit more exciting, since nobody ever scores, we will have off sides, just in case anybody gets close to scoring. But the biggest joke of it all is all the fake dives everybody does, and that’s the only way anybody scores. It sucks so much

Oh stop it please! Those of us that understand the game and can appreciate it, call it 'Football'

Mark

[wolf359]

At last a sensible debate !!! my work is done. (its not all bad in England now is it!!).

[MarkBKK]

The yobs who do all the damage are the spoilt mostly young UK yobs. So lets say it how it is ...its our own wonderful UK citizens who are spoiling the country

Sorry Atlastaname but i believe your wrong. If you have any stats for that, i am prepared to be proved wrong.

I am surprised by the many comments blaming all the woes of the UK on the immigrants.

PS Oh, atlastaname, I find it hard to believe that your statement ''The yobs who do all the damage are the spoilt mostly young UK yobs'' can be wrong. Look at the percentages: 99.999999999999999999999999999999 per cent are yobs with UK passports (leaving roughly .000000000000000000000000000001 per cent ''immigrant'' yobs). Therefore you are correct and so-called ''Mr Bojangles''

What do you mean by "So called MrBojangles". Look at my post, i said give me stats and i am prepared to be proven wrong, so give me the stats and try to stop being so personal.

Also, what has a UK passport holder got to do with it. Many migrants come here and after a 5 or so years they get a UK passport. All i'm asking for is stats to support yuor claim that 99.999999999999999999999999% of yobs are born and bred british. If you look at Atlastanames post he differentiated between immmigrants and UK citizens.

is talking out of his big bottom (and grammatically incorrect ... ''your wrong'' indeed. Sounds like an non-native speaking immigrant to me! String 'em up! It's the only language they understand! Nurse! Nurse! Help me!)

As for this, go and have a coffeee or something and calm down

Coffee makes me MAD! It's so foreign! Not like good old English tea.

You check the figures, they're easy to find. Go on, I'm sure you can use Google. People in England entitled to or holding UK passports vs ''immigrants''. Remember, as soon as ''we let 'em in'' (and give 'em passports) they're British (Gabba, gabba, we accept you, we accept you, one of us). Instantly makes them every bit as good/bad as me (as if they weren't before) and you (assuming you're ''British''). OK, maybe not as good as English, but close enough for this argument, sorry, exchange of views. Check the percentages. Foreign yobs? Are you mad? They're all ours! Doesn't it make you proud? Have you been out on a Friday/Saturday night in some scummy provincial town in the last 10 to 20 years? Christ, it makes you understand why we used to have trench wars -- this is not a new thing (does the term cannon fodder mean anything to you?)

The yobs who do all the damage are the spoilt mostly young UK yobs. So lets say it how it is ...its our own wonderful UK citizens who are spoiling the country

Oh, sorry, Mr (so-called) Bo Jangles. I fail to see the ''error'' in atlastaname's post. What's the beef (Ahha, ahah, allez, allez, oo-err, les rosbeefs!)? Zero.nothing = equals percentage of Johnny Foreigner yobboes (or yobbos, if you prefer) despoiling out green and pleasant land. 100.99 per cent Proud British Yoof building Jerusalem by beating the crap out of anything they don't understand. Thatcher's children (or their children). Not their fault, but who's changing anything?

PS You say ''try to stop being so personal''. You say you think it's foreign yobs/citizens. I take that as a personal insult. How dare you blame foreigners for our problems?

PPS The word is spelled ''your'', not ''yuor'', and ''coffee'', unlike me on a good night, only has two Es. What's that? East European or something? You one of them immigrant yobs? You sound like it.

PPPS This is a silly thread and I will not be partaking of it anymore.

[mrbojangles]

Oh, sorry, Mr (so-called) Bo Jangles. I fail to see the ''error'' in atlastaname's post. What's the beef (Ahha, ahah, allez, allez, oo-err, les rosbeefs!)? Zero.nothing = equals percentage of Johnny Foreigner yobboes (or yobbos, if you prefer) despoiling out green and pleasant land. 100.99 per cent Proud British Yoof building Jerusalem by beating the crap out of anything they don't understand. Thatcher's children (or their children). Not their fault, but who's changing anything?

PS You say ''try to stop being so personal''. You say you think it's foreign yobs/citizens. I take that as a personal insult. How dare you blame foreigners for our problems?

I think you've got me mixed up with someone else pal. Nowhere did i say anything of the above, if you can please point me to it. All i asked for was evidence to support what atlastaname said.

PPS The word is spelled ''your'', not ''yuor'', and ''coffee'', unlike me on a good night, only has two Es. What's that? East European or something? You one of them immigrant yobs? You sound like it.

Typo's are allowed on internet forums and considered rood to point them out. Yuo obviously new wot i ment If you spent more time reading posts instead of looking for typo's you might not make such a pr1ck out of yourself (you got personal twice, so now it's my turn)

PPPS This is a silly thread and I will not be partaking of it anymore.

Excellent, best thing you've said thus far

[Skyline]

"Its the spoilt Uk brats that are causing all the problems"

The crimes that are commited by the so called "chavs" in England are not usually that serious.I admit they are a bunch of low life scumbags and they are on the increase unfortunatly.This is another major problem in the UK.

As for London:

The majority of serious crime in London is caused by "non-white" residents,thats a fact!

If facts and figures are your thing,I could list them here, but I wont.

For those that praise the wonderful 'cultural melting pot" that is London,I invite you to take a stroll around the leafy lanes of Peckham,Lewisham,New Cross and Catford between the hours of 8pm and midnight.

Lots of people have bad things to say about the NHS and it is a mess.Underfunding,incompetent staff and high demand has always been its weak points.But,its not that bad.

[qwertz]

into all other one rooms

Lots of people have bad things to say about the NHS and it is a mess.Underfunding,incompetent staff and high demand has always been its weak points.But,its not that bad.

From personal experience, the German hospital system is very high tech and efficient compared to England's - complete with tasty Nordic nurses in crisp, white, sexy uniforms. But they're never as warm, caring and hard working as the English nurses - respect to those ladies.

[samran]

Oh dear, UKIP has a BKK branch?

"Its the spoilt Uk brats that are causing all the problems"

The crimes that are commited by the so called "chavs" in England are not usually that serious. I admit they are a bunch of low life scumbags and they are on the increase unfortunatly.This is another major problem in the UK.

Chav's = not serious…ha ha. Crime is crime.

As for London:

The majority of serious crime in London is caused by "non-white" residents, thats a fact!

If facts and figures are your thing,I could list them here, but I wont.

Facts and figures ARE my thing. Prove it please, otherwise your 'facts' aren't worth anything. And even what you are saying is true, so what? Do we deport all non-whites? Do you have an immigration programme which only accepts whites. After all, what is the worst that can happen? They can turn into a Chav, wear tracksuits and wear lots of gold – a worse case scenario – and only beat up old ladies and terrorise neighbourhoods on their BMX's and do burn outs in the Cortina's.

Of do you address the real problem, poverty, lack of education, basically disengaged from society?

For those that praise the wonderful 'cultural melting pot" that is London,I invite you to take a stroll around the leafy lanes of Peckham, Lewisham, New Cross and Catford between the hours of 8pm and midnight.

Round Lewisham on the end of DLR? Near the roundabout down near that ugly brown shopping centre with the dodgy Tesco's. Or down the Walworth Rd? I know the latter well.

Admittedly, not the most safe of places. But, if you read a previous post of mine (admittedly a long one - probably too much for your small attention span), there are pockets of white and black and other groups – all disadvantaged – who are equally as to blame for the lack of safety in these areas.

It is a poverty, education, health and employment thing at the end of the day…nothing to do with the colour of ones skin. People who like to put labels to things, like you, really have it wrong.

[coldcrush]

This reminds me of some toffee nose gits in the 1980s talking about how us Northerners were backward scum and they were upwardly mobile (yuppies)! Whos had the last laugh now then eh. We have all the oil and gas jobs a stone throw away, great countryside to cycle in with our flat caps on and clean air to fly our pigeons!

"In your Southern Slums" now echoes from the terraces! Swings and rondabouts eh...nevemind you can find comfort in your over priced housing and never ending traffic jams!

God i feel great today! i think I will go and ride near a clean stream and take in some beautiful scenery!

Edited March 7, 2007 by lopburiguy

[Johpa]

Here's a couple to start with

1) People in the UK have in general far too much money , give their kids far too many things , both of which make them more arrogant.

I must hang out with the wrong crowd when visiting the UK. All my mates are struggling with the high prices of just about everything. Entertainment is pretty well limited to smoking fags and watching the telly in the evening apart from the rare visit to the increasingly rare traditional pub where available funds limit them to only a pint or two. And they all complain that London has become a non-English and unsafe city. I still love the place, but then I am now only an occasional tourist who once lived in London decades ago.

[Skyline]

crime is crime???...<deleted>?....smashing a window is the same as a murder?

Facts and figures ARE my thing. Prove it please, otherwise your 'facts' aren't worth anything. And even what you are saying is true, so what? Do we deport all non-whites? Do you have an immigration programme which only accepts whites. After all, what is the worst that can happen? They can turn into a Chav, wear tracksuits and wear lots of gold – a worse case scenario – and only beat up old ladies and terrorise neighbourhoods on their BMX's and do burn outs in the Cortina's.

Of do you address the real problem, poverty, lack of education, basically disengaged from society?

Lack of education?They have the same schooling available as both you and I had.

Disengaged from society?The state gives them homes,money and countless other welfare handouts.Do you think we should do more to help them "integrate" and feel more at home?

Poverty?Please tell me you're joking.

You are entitled to your opinion as much as I am.To say you are right and I'm wrong is nothing short of idiotic.You are a "moderator" here,nothing more,dont let it get to your head.

Edited March 7, 2007 by Skyline