Belgian Embassy letter rejected by CW Immigration

[fvw53]

Application for retirement extension.

This to inform the Forum members that Chaengwattana office of Immigration has rejected was is called in this forum an "Embassy Letter" about my income.

The reason is .....that this letter does not certify my income but only legalised my signature on an affidavit made by myself : this is correct, indeed my Embassy does NOT certify the content of a document but only the person who signs it ..... but that is how I got retirement extensions for the last 10 years.

I was informed by IO that I should still use this "affidavit" in future but that I need as a support the 12 print outs made by my bank about the monthly transfers.

To-day a Forum member made available one single letter (not 12 monthly transfers) made by Bangkok Bank to certify his income : do some members have similar "single letters" from other banks and were they accepted?

 

[luckyluke]

This is  big news ! 

 

With a "Letter of Income", one only needed to have the monthly income in your homeland, not to transfer it to Thailand. 

 

Is this a new regulation? 

 

Or again an interpretation of one Immigration officer at one office? 

[SEtonal]

17 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

To-day a Forum member made available one single letter (not 12 monthly transfers) made by Bangkok Bank to certify his income : do some members have similar "single letters" from other banks and were they accepted?

Could you please provide a link or give the title of this thread?

[JTXR]

This is not good news.  I've been planning on using next month the US embassy affidavit I got at the very end of December 2018, which should have been good for 6 months (until the end of June).  The US embassy affidavit has always been just a certification of the US citizen's signature, never a certification of income.  If CW is not accepting the affidavits anymore, I'm effed. 

 

The thing is.... the wife went with me to CW the last time I did the 90-day report and we were assured by TI that they would accept the affidavit until the end of June.  Grrrr.

 

 

[NanLaew]

13 minutes ago, JTXR said:

This is not good news.  I've been planning on using next month the US embassy affidavit I got at the very end of December 2018, which should have been good for 6 months (until the end of June).  The US embassy affidavit has always been just a certification of the US citizen's signature, never a certification of income.  If CW is not accepting the affidavits anymore, I'm effed. 

 

The thing is.... the wife went with me to CW the last time I did the 90-day report and we were assured by TI that they would accept the affidavit until the end of June.  Grrrr.

 

 

Rather than use the example of a Belgian embassy 'affidavit with no documentary proof' being denied, with a month before your extension is due, make a trip to CW and ask again? Bring ALL your paperwork with you and see if they say it's still OK, see if they're amenable to letting you file early?

 

I am not sure if CW is flexible in that regard as some allow up to 2 weeks early and I once managed to get it about 25 days ahead but that wasn't at CW and I was very lucky that the boss of that office was on site and it was close to closing time so it wasn't busy.

[ubonjoe]

29 minutes ago, JTXR said:

This is not good news.  I've been planning on using next month the US embassy affidavit I got at the very end of December 2018, which should have been good for 6 months (until the end of June).  The US embassy affidavit has always been just a certification of the US citizen's signature, never a certification of income.  If CW is not accepting the affidavits anymore, I'm effed. 

The thing is.... the wife went with me to CW the last time I did the 90-day report and we were assured by TI that they would accept the affidavit until the end of June.  Grrrr.

I think the OP was being told to supply backup proof of his affidavit.

If needed you could show some proof of the funds being transferred into the country or some other proof of your income.

[SEtonal]

26 minutes ago, JTXR said:

This is not good news.  I've been planning on using next month the US embassy affidavit I got at the very end of December 2018, which should have been good for 6 months (until the end of June).  The US embassy affidavit has always been just a certification of the US citizen's signature, never a certification of income.  If CW is not accepting the affidavits anymore, I'm effed. 

 

The thing is.... the wife went with me to CW the last time I did the 90-day report and we were assured by TI that they would accept the affidavit until the end of June.  Grrrr.

Chaeng Wattana has been showing leniency this year.  You should have no problem getting your extension with a US Embassy affidavit.   The poster in the link did NOT have an Embassy Letter and was able to get a retirement extension at CW with just 3 monthly foreign transfers of 65K. 

 

 

[moontang]

Even in the old days of widespread letter fraud; the IOs occasionally asked for proof of remittances, and suggested that they wanted to see the 65k brought over monthly.  I thought is was even more reason to do 800k..then there would be no reason to discuss monthly living expenses.

[glegolo]

did I understand this correctly..... did the op construct his very own affadavit and his belgian embassy did sign on off that piece of paper... yeah if that crap is true me myself would have denied it no question about that....

 

Why is not op going to his embassy and do what the rest of the freaking world is doing. present a piece of evidence of his income to the embassy and let them on their own letterhead issue the income-letter, strange people...

 

glegolo

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, glegolo said:

Why is not op going to his embassy and do what the rest of the freaking world is doing. present a piece of evidence of his income to the embassy and let them on their own letterhead issue the income-letter, strange people...

All the embassy are doing is certifying in the income letter that they've seen "evidence" of the income - "evidence" it's easy enough for some high school sophomore to manufacture at home on his computer.  That's not the same as verifying what sits behind the evidence is genuine

[glegolo]

2 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

All the embassy are doing is certifying in the income letter that they've seen "evidence" of the income - "evidence" it's easy enough for some high school sophomore to manufacture at home on his computer.  That's not the same as verifying what sits behind the evidence is genuine

you did not understand I guess.... as I understand it, the op fabricated his very own affadavit, NOT on the belgian embassys letterhead. the thai immigration didn´t like personal freaking affadavits they wish to have official ones, no matter how legit they are.

 

I think op is more destroying for the rest of us by his strange behavior..

 

glegolo

[elviajero]

25 minutes ago, glegolo said:

you did not understand I guess.... as I understand it, the op fabricated his very own affadavit, NOT on the belgian embassys letterhead. the thai immigration didn´t like personal freaking affadavits they wish to have official ones, no matter how legit they are.

 

I think op is more destroying for the rest of us by his strange behavior..

 

glegolo

You misunderstand the OP.

 

He wrote an affidavit that the Embassy then certified. That is no different to what was happening at the US and some other Embassies.

 

It has always been a worthless piece of paper. All the embassy do is witness the person signing the document.

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, fvw53 said:

Application for retirement extension.

This to inform the Forum members that Chaengwattana office of Immigration has rejected was is called in this forum an "Embassy Letter" about my income.

The reason is .....that this letter does not certify my income but only legalised my signature on an affidavit made by myself : this is correct, indeed my Embassy does NOT certify the content of a document but only the person who signs it ..... but that is how I got retirement extensions for the last 10 years.

I was informed by IO that I should still use this "affidavit" in future but that I need as a support the 12 print outs made by my bank about the monthly transfers.

To-day a Forum member made available one single letter (not 12 monthly transfers) made by Bangkok Bank to certify his income : do some members have similar "single letters" from other banks and were they accepted?

Just FYI, you don't need your own made-up income affidavit. You only need what most need who are using the income method and that is proof of 12 monthly transfers into a Thai bank account using an updated bank book & an official bank letter. In 2019, you should he able to renew with less than 12 transfers since the rules just went into effect in December. If you don't have the 65k in monthly transfers, you may want to check with your embassy to see if they can issue an official embassy affidavit if they still do them. They may want proof of your income.

[ThaiBunny]

22 minutes ago, glegolo said:

you did not understand I guess.... as I understand it, the op fabricated his very own affadavit, NOT on the belgian embassys letterhead. the thai immigration didn´t like personal freaking affadavits they wish to have official ones, no matter how legit they are.

I'm not referring to the OP's affadavit; I'm referring to those who believe that embassies claim to be verifying income simply because they've seen "evidence" of said income. All they're doing is certifying they've seen something that purports to be evidence. Only a forensic accountant could verify it

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, fvw53 said:

I was informed by IO that I should still use this "affidavit" in future but that I need as a support the 12 print outs made by my bank about the monthly transfers.

I am not surprised they won’t accept the affidavit alone and warned of this possibility months ago.

 

Just because embassies continue to supply the affidavits/letters doesn’t mean they will be accepted. The embassy must certify they have seen evidence of the income.

 

In immigrations world they expect a retiree (income based) to have to have a regular monthly pension and that the pension is transferred to Thailand — even though they haven’t (usually) asked for proof in the past.

 

How have you transferred your pension to Thailand over the last 12 months? 

[david555]

46 minutes ago, glegolo said:

you did not understand I guess.... as I understand it, the op fabricated his very own affadavit, NOT on the belgian embassys letterhead. the thai immigration didn´t like personal freaking affadavits they wish to have official ones, no matter how legit they are.

 

I think op is more destroying for the rest of us by his strange behavior..

 

glegolo

Here is an example how a affidavit from Belgium Embassy look .  this affidavit from the last moment I made it because combo method or bank method that time 2015 (made it for reserve option) 

As you can see there is no header , but they put a kind of sticker down under my statement 

I removed my I.D.'s

[JTXR]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I think the OP was being told to supply backup proof of his affidavit.

If needed you could show some proof of the funds being transferred into the country or some other proof of your income.

OK, cool.  I have my Social Security benefits letter showing income equal to what's declared on the affidavit.  Together with my bank book showing transfers into the country, that should work, fingers crossed.

[JohnnyBD]

19 minutes ago, david555 said:

Here is an example how a affidavit from Belgium Embassy look .  this affidavit from the last moment I made it because combo method or bank method that time 2015 (made it for reserve option) 

As you can see there is no header , but they put a kind of sticker down under my statement 

I removed my I.D.'s

So, the Belgian embassy is not really verifying income. Maybe, that's why Thai IM wouldn't accept the OPs affidavit and asked for proof of monthly transfers. At least the US embassy affidavits were on official letterhead, although, they didn't verify income either. I suspect many embassies are not verifying income but are still issuing affidavits.

[Just Weird]

41 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

All the embassy are doing is certifying in the income letter that they've seen "evidence" of the income - "evidence" it's easy enough for some high school sophomore to manufacture at home on his computer.  That's not the same as verifying what sits behind the evidence is genuine

Can that high school sophomore easily get the Embassy's seal that is required impressed on the letter also?

[glegolo]

13 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

I'm not referring to the OP's affadavit; I'm referring to those who believe that embassies claim to be verifying income simply because they've seen "evidence" of said income. All they're doing is certifying they've seen something that purports to be evidence. Only a forensic accountant could verify it

as usual "sour, said the fox"

 

glegolo

[david555]

Just now, JohnnyBD said:

So, the Belgian embassy is not verifying any income. Maybe, that's why Thai immigration wouldn't accept the OPs affidavit. At least the US embassy affidavits were on US embassy letterhead and looked official, although, they didn't verify income either. I suspect many embassies are not verifying income but still issuing affidavits.

UNLESS they have different form now ? As this on is from 2015 as I used it as backup , not sure if my Bank method was going as Bank method newbie …. went fine and still using the 800 k bank , works like a charm no hassle and no any benefit "sideways" for the i.o's 

[glegolo]

53 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You misunderstand the OP.

 

He wrote an affidavit that the Embassy then certified. That is no different to what was happening at the US and some other Embassies.

 

It has always been a worthless piece of paper. All the embassy do is witness the person signing the document.

in Sweden we are not working with homemade documents like you then do in america..... the affadavit is written of course on a letter with a proper letterhead of swedish embassy. I dont care what you guys screams about,, worthless and all that... It is working for us in the rest of the world, and it is NOT working for you in the USA <removed>

 

GLEGOLO

[JohnnyBD]

28 minutes ago, glegolo said:

in Sweden we are not working with homemade documents like you then do in america..... the affadavit is written of course on a letter with a proper letterhead of swedish embassy. I dont care what you guys screams about,, worthless and all that... It is working for us in the rest of the world, and it is NOT working for you in the USA because you have lied far too much and too long and misused the system.. you are now paying for that...

 

GLEGOLO

Ok... I take back my post.

[glegolo]

13 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

The US embassy affidavits were on official embassy letterhead and not made up as you imply. I can't speak for others, but my retirement income is in excess of 300k THB per month and I never needed the income affidavits.

 elviajero, who I quoted was stating something else..... read it..

 

glegolo

[JohnnyBD]

1 minute ago, glegolo said:

 elviajero, who I quoted was stating something else..... read it..

 

glegolo

Ok... I take back my post...

[ThaiBunny]

31 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Can that high school sophomore easily get the Embassy's seal that is required impressed on the letter also?

Perhaps if you read what I wrote more carefully - I said the sophomore can manufacture the supporting evidence, not that he could manufacture the embassy's certificate.  The evidence is easily manufactured

[fvw53]

34 minutes ago, david555 said:

Here is an example how a affidavit from Belgium Embassy look .  this affidavit from the last moment I made it because combo method or bank method that time 2015 (made it for reserve option) 

As you can see there is no header , but they put a kind of sticker down under my statement 

I removed my I.D.'s

..and in the small text below you can read in Dutch, French and German ...the 3 national languages of Belgium.... that "this legalisation does not guarantee the content of the document...and this has always been like this since I needed a legalisation of my signature by a Belgian authority...first time in 1969.   I had no problems with Thai IO the last ten years but I cannot blame them they start now to read the full text...However the above signed affidavit is similar to a statement under oath and any falsehood should be severely punished. Now IO indicated they will accept as a back up evidence of my bank transfers which exceed the required minimum more than 30% but were not done monthly.

[fvw53]

2 hours ago, SEtonal said:

Could you please provide a link or give the title of this thread?

 

[davhend25]

I have the U.S. Embassy affidavit of income (income letter) dated December 21, 2018, along with my U.S. bank statements clearly showing my pension and Social Security monthly direct deposits into my U.S. bank account. I also have individual monthly stubs from my two pensions and an official letter from U.S. Social Security, stating my monthly net benefit for 2019. The total adds up to about 90k baht, monthly.  This is what I have successfully used the last 2 years to renew my extensions based on "Retirement."

 

I have never transferred money into a Thai bank, as I have never had a Thai bank account. I thought the embassy letter I got in late December would give me one more year under the old policy.

 

I will be applying for my annual extension based on "Retirement" next week, in Chanthaburi, my home province.

 

Should I pack my bags, or do I have a chance at obtaining this extension???

 

I am legally married to a Thai national and have already filed the I-130 spousal visa application for her to come to the U.S.  So I need 4 to 6 months more to stay here in Thailand until her visa is issued. If this extension should fail, what are my options for staying that 4 to 6 month time period??

 

Thanks in advance for any helpful replies.

 

DH

 

 

 

 

 

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

You misunderstand the OP.

 

He wrote an affidavit that the Embassy then certified. That is no different to what was happening at the US and some other Embassies.

 

It has always been a worthless piece of paper. All the embassy do is witness the person signing the document.

On the US embassy affidavits, wasn't the amount that the citizen declared to be his income stated on the affidavit? If so, this appears to be the difference.