Belgian Embassy letter rejected by CW Immigration

[madmen]

So we have at ChaengW. a Belgian who's Affidavit was not accepted as only document, and an American who's was. 
 
Nothing changed : different day, different officer (even eventually same), different approach. 

OP should go back and try again.

[sumrit]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

For those whose current income is to a substantial degree based on investments made in Thailand, it can be very difficult to quickly convert them into overseas investments so that the income can be transferred into Thailand as opposed to originating here (and it is difficult to construct an explanation as to why this is in Thailand's best interests).

If your income is 'substantially' Thai based (eg: derived from Thai rental income) would that then be a 'taxable income'? And, if so, would that not then be classed as requiring a work permit? If so, you would then be able to stay because of that work permit and not have to worry about transferring that money from abroad into Thailand in order to qualify for a retirement extension based on a monthly income.

 

Maybe it would be in Thailand's best interest because they would want the income tax owed.

[swoods58]

On 5/2/2019 at 12:12 PM, glegolo said:

did I understand this correctly..... did the op construct his very own affadavit and his belgian embassy did sign on off that piece of paper... yeah if that crap is true me myself would have denied it no question about that....

 

Why is not op going to his embassy and do what the rest of the freaking world is doing. present a piece of evidence of his income to the embassy and let them on their own letterhead issue the income-letter, strange people...

 

glegolo

That's how Australia has done it for years. Only a few countries actually asked for proof.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, davhend25 said:

Thank you, again, "JackThompson," for the additional clarification on this problem.  

 

Money, up to a point, is not that important to me at this juncture. I need to stay in Thailand another 4 to 6 months to wait on my wife's U.S. spousal visa approval. If getting my extension based on Retirement means paying someone extra, I'm okay with that. A trip to Savannakhet or HCMC is certainly going to cost me additional funds, so it would be much easier to just get my extension done locally like I have done in the past; extra money (agent) or not. 

 

Interestingly, when I first came to Thailand two years ago, I had gotten a non-0 single entry visa from a Thai consulate in the U.S. with the help of a Bangkok based law firm. During the last 30 days of the 90 day permit, my wife and I went to Changwattana with same lawyers and they got me an extension based on Retirement, using our Bangkok Hotel address, I assume; even though we were living in Chanthaburi at the time.

 

The following year when I went to my local office in Chanthaburi to apply for my new annual extension based on Retirement, the IO asked me why I had originally extended at Changwattana while living in their jurisdiction of Chanthaburi. The IO then asked me if I used an "Agent," not knowing exactly what an agent was, I replied yes. The IO was polite, but said that in the future, I should just come to their local office (Chanthaburi) and they would do my retirement extension for only 1900 baht. In other words, they were discouraging the use of an "agent." 

 

It works like a pyramid-marketing scheme - the agent-partner IO at office #1 gets the money and it is passed up.  Using a Bangkok agent cuts Chanthaburi out of the loop.   If there are no agents in Chanthaburi, they would still resent the "going around" their authority/jurisdiction.

 

Chang Mai takes this very seriously, because agents there cost 10K Baht or more than in (for example) Pattaya.  To cut down on lost-revenue to cheaper, competing offices, they were refusing to accept TM-28s from those with extensions done elsewhere, in order that those doing this could not do 90-day reports (Not sure now, given some of that office's schemes have been shut-down). 

 

2 hours ago, davhend25 said:

I will be traveling to this same office next week for my next retirement extension with one of the last U.S. Embassy income letters and back-up U.S. banking and pension documents. I'm hoping for the best, but If I need an agent to get this done, I will get one.

 

Which brings up one last question. If I am denied an extension next week without an agent, will that preclude my getting one and applying again, or will I need to go the "foreign consulate non-0 route???"

 

As always, thanks in advance for any helpful replies.

 

DH

I would be surprised if trying w/o an agent would preclude using one.  The IO who denied initially might even get a high-five from the boss. 

 

But, with your embassy-letter PLUS back-up US-Bank and Pension docs, I doubt you will be singled-out for a denied-extension at CW.

[henry15]

On 5/2/2019 at 12:12 PM, glegolo said:

did I understand this correctly..... did the op construct his very own affadavit and his belgian embassy did sign on off that piece of paper... yeah if that crap is true me myself would have denied it no question about that....

 

Why is not op going to his embassy and do what the rest of the freaking world is doing. present a piece of evidence of his income to the embassy and let them on their own letterhead issue the income-letter, strange people...

 

glegolo

Strange as its may seem. The belgian embassy don't except that evidence  since 3 years  ago. Again a proof that belgium is a surrealistic country. I have the  belgian nationality and i'm not proud about it. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by henry15
spelilng

[JimGant]

17 hours ago, glegolo said:

jim grant you are out of depth now my friend. we swedes are much more modern and educated then most of you americans. so to correct you. we come to our embassy, we do not fill in a shit.. we hand over the govermental document stating previous income, give it to the personal, pay them 400 baht, and voila 10 minutes later we have in our hand a nice document, issued by our grandios and nice embassy... beat that if you can mr envy...

 

glegolo

Ok, you Swedes are really cool -- ABBA your prime example. But, out of curiosity, is that governmental document you hand over for verification strictly related to a government pension? Or can it be, say, a tax document, verifying your net income from your "Happy Ending Sauna Bath" business? (I say 'net income,' as I recall from another thread that Swedish income statements are 'net.')

[mlmcleod]

Those of us who do not trust Thai banks or their nickel and diming fees rely on the income letters from our embassies.  The recent regulations requiring transfers to Thai banks are detestable to me.  I can easily show my Social Security income but not transfers to Thai banks.  My Social Security income is more than enough to qualify.  The unilateral decision by the US embassy to not issue income letters is catastrophic for many American citizens.  It would require little or no effort for the Embassy to verify our Social Security income and issue a letter to that effect.  Our State department is spending too much time mucking around with North Korea and no time providing necessary resources for their expt citizens.  I have contacted my congresswoman and expect some changes in the near future.

 

If the same rules were applied to all embassies their would be howling in Bangkok!

Edited May 3, 2019 by mlmcleod

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, glegolo said:

he clearly says he constructed his very own affadavit and THEN asking his embassy to sign it which they did....... Me personally if being an IO here in Thailand, would have dismissed this document in a heartbeat.....

 

glegolo

Did you see his example? It had the Belgium embassy stamp affixed, so I assume an IO would honor such. Yes, it had no letterhead (so what), but at least it was a pre-formatted form, presumably supplied by the embassy, allowing for amount of euros paid monthly, and a disclaimer as to the embassy verifying supplied information.

[davhend25]

25 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But, with your embassy-letter PLUS back-up US-Bank and Pension docs, I doubt you will be singled-out for a denied-extension at CW.

Thank you once again, "JackThompson."  I'm beginning to sound like a broken record...Lol.

 

Just to correct the record, I will be applying for my retirement extension in Chanthaburi, not CW; even though it sounds as if CW would be the safer bet.

 

I'm pretty sure that you have to apply for extensions in the province IO where you reside... Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.

 

Thanks, again, "JackThompson."

 

 

[david555]

23 minutes ago, henry15 said:

Strange as its may seem. The belgian embassy don't except that evidence  since 3 years  ago. Again a proof that belgium is a surrealistic country. I have the  belgian nationality and i'm not proud about it. 

It is not that they not accept …. they can/may not stamp it as they said to me years ago , about having the nationality of a country not being proud of , you could give it a try and denounce it (and the benefits & advantages …?? )

So that's the reason for typing Belgium with a small b ?

[DPKANKAN]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

A Brit filing his retirement extension in March with a 3-month old income letter issued by the British embassy versus an American filing his retirement extension in June with a 6-month old income affidavit issued by the American embassy.

 

Yes, the similarities are truly uncanny.

Just pointing out that as a 'Brit' who does not have the option to use the income letter in future, used the letter which has been confirmed as valid for 6 months, to renew. Managed to grasp the simplicity of the point now!!

[JimGant]

I have to chuckle at the folks complaining about not being able to spend the 65k/mo needed to be sent to Thailand for the income method of extension renewal. Yeah, valid point, particularly if you'll be out of the country for a chunk of the year, as you're a 'part timer.' But I'm assuming a large chunk of this part-time population is not living hand-to-mouth, and thus could let 65k/mo ride for 13 months, untouched. Then, take that chunk of money and buy an 800k FD bond; and then forever and ever forget about sending 65k/mo to Thailand -- just send whatever's needed to get by. If you're European, that eventual 800k's interest probably won't be subject to home country taxes -- and the 15% Thai tax can be refunded (Yanks will have to pay US taxes on the interest from the FD account). But for most of us, money sent to Thailand is from our capital preservation, insured, low interest accounts -- so lost interest income, banged against Thai interest earned, ain't a big deal (If you're sending money from your high risk accounts, well, you've got a different problem.)

 

Anyway, after a year, no more worries about having too much money sent monthly to Thailand. Oh, you're worried about the safety of the 800k in the FD? Then, you probably need to investigate a new retirement country. Venezuela might be nice.... ????

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, davhend25 said:

Your point being???

This...

 

4 hours ago, luckyluke said:

So we have at ChaengW. a Belgian who's Affidavit was not accepted as only document, and an American who's was. 

 

Nothing changed : different day, different officer (even eventually same), different approach. 

And...

 

3 hours ago, madmen said:

OP should go back and try again.

He may get lucky and get the same IO that served the American.

 

Same same but different...

 

I first heard that phrase on my first Thai rodeo over 40 years ago. It was probably being spoken by some old bugger that had been living the dream in LOS for over 40 years before that.

Edited May 3, 2019 by NanLaew

[luckyluke]

"about having the nationality of a country not being proud of" 

 

This individual known here under the alias henry15 is  well known on different fora as a Flemish extremist, hating his country. 

 

Banned or choosing to dissappear on different fora. 

 

This is something which must be known, in order to understand his postings about Belgium. 

 

This post can be deleted but than it should be fair that his hate postings about our country Belgium should be deleted as well. 

 

 

I trust moderation here with their fair judgement. 

 

[Skeptic7]

On 5/2/2019 at 12:20 AM, JTXR said:

This is not good news.  I've been planning on using next month the US embassy affidavit I got at the very end of December 2018, which should have been good for 6 months (until the end of June).  The US embassy affidavit has always been just a certification of the US citizen's signature, never a certification of income.  If CW is not accepting the affidavits anymore, I'm effed. 

 

The thing is.... the wife went with me to CW the last time I did the 90-day report and we were assured by TI that they would accept the affidavit until the end of June.  Grrrr.

 

 

Just last a few weeks ago a bud in Jomtien used his less than 6 month old " US Embassy Letter" to renew his extension based on retirement and his exact words were...'easy as <deleted>'. Said he was in and out in no time with his extension. No supporting docs of income, transfers, etc were required. 

[smedly]

4 hours ago, swoods58 said:

That's how Australia has done it for years. Only a few countries actually asked for proof.

and everyone assumes that these letters will still be accepted from embassies that still issue them - this thread seems to say otherwise, and just because it has not been posted on TVF doesn't mean that others have already been refused

 

Maybe the UK and US embassies did their people a favour by stopping the issuance of these letters as it gave people a chance to comply in other ways - the OP thought all was well until yesterday - maybe a heads up for others

[smedly]

21 hours ago, glegolo said:

jim grant you are out of depth now my friend. we swedes are much more modern and educated then most of you americans. so to correct you. we come to our embassy, we do not fill in a shit.. we hand over the govermental document stating previous income, give it to the personal, pay them 400 baht, and voila 10 minutes later we have in our hand a nice document, issued by our grandios and nice embassy... beat that if you can mr envy...

 

glegolo

and when was the last time you did this and how confident are you it is going to work for you next time

 

I wouldn't be so confident after reading this thread

 

Just saying

[glegolo]

4 hours ago, JimGant said:

Ok, you Swedes are really cool -- ABBA your prime example. But, out of curiosity, is that governmental document you hand over for verification strictly related to a government pension? Or can it be, say, a tax document, verifying your net income from your "Happy Ending Sauna Bath" business? (I say 'net income,' as I recall from another thread that Swedish income statements are 'net.')

we can supply our embassy with whatever kind of income as long as it is from a govermental site and issued by them. pension or whatever. we can also hand over our tax-return covering our total income for that year.

 

answering about net..... all govermental documents are covering both net as well as brut income..... naybe you re thinking aout the thai embassy in sweden that demands that the amounts that are demanded to buy a VISA shall be net figures not brut as it is in Thailand..

 

glegolo

[glegolo]

43 minutes ago, smedly said:

and when was the last time you did this and how confident are you it is going to work for you next time

 

I wouldn't be so confident after reading this thread

 

Just saying

the only change there is, is the change that hit you guys in usa uk and austyraliua the rest of us are good and our lives can go on..

 

glegolo

[smedly]

16 minutes ago, glegolo said:

the only change there is, is the change that hit you guys in usa uk and austyraliua the rest of us are good and our lives can go on..

 

glegolo

wasn't the OP just as confident up until yesterday

 

Just because your embassy issues these letters doesn't mean Thai Immigration will accept them - I warned of this months ago

 

If I was you (and others) I would make sure to have the correctly seasoned 800k or have 65k monthly transfers to show - if you think an embassy letter will help - go for it

[Skeptic7]

20 minutes ago, glegolo said:

the only change there is, is the change that hit you guys in usa uk and austyraliua the rest of us are good and our lives can go on..

 

glegolo

The changes for me as a US citizen, even though I don't care them, have not stopped or even paused my life from going on in the slightest...and I'm "good". Better than good...as good as ever...GRRREAT! 

[JohnnyBD]

 

1 hour ago, glegolo said:

the only change there is, is the change that hit you guys in usa uk and austyraliua the rest of us are good and our lives can go on..

 

glegolo

Not everyone who are UK, US or AUS citizens are affected by the changes. I'm a US citizen and the changes have not affected me at all. I use the 800k bank method, have over $10,000 USD per month in retirement income and haven't even started my gov't SS pension yet. When I do start my SS in 4 years, that will be another $3,000 USD per month or more with cost of living adjustments.

So, my life is very good and it can go on just like yours and many other UK, US & AUS citizens. Wish everyone well.

Edited May 3, 2019 by JohnnyBD

[fvw53]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

"about having the nationality of a country not being proud of" 

 

This individual known here under the alias henry15 is  well known on different fora as a Flemish extremist, hating his country. 

 

Banned or choosing to dissappear on different fora. 

 

This is something which must be known, in order to understand his postings about Belgium. 

 

This post can be deleted but than it should be fair that his hate postings about our country Belgium should be deleted as well. 

 

 

I trust moderation here with their fair judgement. 

 

If you read my OP again it was certainly not my intention to create animosity ...but only to warn others about changes in the rules IO applied to me.

The Thai authorities are sovereign in writing and enforcing the rules to be respected by foreigners in order to be allowed to enter or stay in their country. 

[JohnnyBD]

6 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

If you read my OP again it was certainly not my intention to create animosity ...but only to warn others about changes in the rules IO applied to me.

The Thai authorities are sovereign in writing and enforcing the rules to be respected by foreigners in order to be allowed to enter or stay in their country. 

Your original posting was just fine and I appreciate you posting.

Edited May 3, 2019 by JohnnyBD

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

Not everyone who are UK, US or AUS citizens are affected by the changes. I'm a US citizen and the changes have not affected me at all. I use the 800k bank method, have over $10,000 USD per month in retirement income and haven't even started my gov't SS pension yet. When I do start my SS in 4 years, that will be another $3,000 USD per month or more with cost of living adjustments.

So, my life is very good and it can go on just like yours and many other UK, US & AUS citizens. Wish everyone well.

I wish you  well; but for every 1 of you there are  1 million of us who do not have that type of monthly income.  You may want to contemplate why that is the case?

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, JimGant said:

I have to chuckle at the folks complaining about not being able to spend the 65k/mo needed to be sent to Thailand for the income method of extension renewal. Yeah, valid point, particularly if you'll be out of the country for a chunk of the year, as you're a 'part timer.' But I'm assuming a large chunk of this part-time population is not living hand-to-mouth, and thus could let 65k/mo ride for 13 months, untouched. Then, take that chunk of money and buy an 800k FD bond; and then forever and ever forget about sending 65k/mo to Thailand -- just send whatever's needed to get by. If you're European, that eventual 800k's interest probably won't be subject to home country taxes -- and the 15% Thai tax can be refunded (Yanks will have to pay US taxes on the interest from the FD account). But for most of us, money sent to Thailand is from our capital preservation, insured, low interest accounts -- so lost interest income, banged against Thai interest earned, ain't a big deal (If you're sending money from your high risk accounts, well, you've got a different problem.)

 

Anyway, after a year, no more worries about having too much money sent monthly to Thailand. Oh, you're worried about the safety of the 800k in the FD? Then, you probably need to investigate a new retirement country. Venezuela might be nice.... ????

You are assuming we know in advance what the rules are going to be in future years: in my view, an optimistic assumption.

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

wasn't the OP just as confident up until yesterday

 

Just because your embassy issues these letters doesn't mean Thai Immigration will accept them - I warned of this months ago

 

If I was you (and others) I would make sure to have the correctly seasoned 800k or have 65k monthly transfers to show - if you think an embassy letter will help - go for it

Unless there is something special, immigration will accept the embassy letters.

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

and everyone assumes that these letters will still be accepted from embassies that still issue them - this thread seems to say otherwise, and just because it has not been posted on TVF doesn't mean that others have already been refused

 

Maybe the UK and US embassies did their people a favour by stopping the issuance of these letters as it gave people a chance to comply in other ways - the OP thought all was well until yesterday - maybe a heads up for others

Only a matter of time before immigration refuse to accept these embassy letters, no matter what nationality, and why, because they can.

 

They will want to see the real money coming into Thailand from these nationalities, in the same way they want to see the real money from the 4 embassies that stopped issuing the letters.

 

Not scare mongering.  It's just going that way here. It's all about the money. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Leaver

[Leaver]

35 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Unless there is something special, immigration will accept the embassy letters.

I think there will be a lot of "special" here in the future.  ????

[DJ54]

Yep after rereading OP post the document was generated by himself. US and possibly other Embassies provide forms which

I have. 

 

OP have you always used self generated forms and what your Embassy accepts or do they have an Embassy provided form .