Belgian Embassy letter rejected by CW Immigration

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, fvw53 said:

If you read my OP again it was certainly not my intention to create animosity ...but only to warn others about changes in the rules IO applied to me.

The warning / info is appreciated.  The more reports we have, the better.

 

Quote

The Thai authorities are sovereign in writing and enforcing the rules to be respected by foreigners in order to be allowed to enter or stay in their country. 

But they can also not enforce the rules, or make up different new rules, per-office, variable over time with no notice, etc.  This is why 1st hand reports are so valuable. 

 

Not sure about the use of of "their country," in this context.  The Thai people have no say in immigration policy (nor do my fellow-citizens my passport-country, regardless of who we 'elect').   The folks at your local office do indeed have power over their fiefdom, though.

Edited May 3, 2019 by JackThompson

[mikebell]

In December, I supplied UK Embassy with my P60 certificate of tax paid in the year.  They gave me one of the last letters ever? (Late December.)

 

This week I took my papers to Pattaya Immigration.  The eagle-eyed lady spotted I was using an old photo on the form (it was the same one as on my passport.)  She suggested I have a new one.  This cost 150 baht for a set at the booth in the office.

This delay cost me an extra five minutes so I left 20 minutes later with a ticket to collect my passport next day.

 

I duly returned and spent a further five minutes collecting it and left grumbling that I had spent 40 baht car-parking fee for eight minutes stay.

 

Reading the horror stories of CW and Chang Mai make me glad I live here and not there.

Now next year might be a different story.

[luckyluke]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

Only a matter of time before immigration refuse to accept these embassy letters, no matter what nationality, and why, because they can.

Sure,

as they can change the 65000, 400000, 800000 to 80000, 500000, 1000000 or whatever other amount and without grandfathering. 

 

Which mean we all should have a plan B, C, D, eventually more. 

 

Or than up to each of us to confront the eventually changes in our own proper way. 

[GinBoy2]

20 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Sure,

as they can change the 65000, 400000, 800000 to 80000, 500000, 1000000 or whatever other amount and without grandfathering. 

 

Which mean we all should have a plan B, C, D, eventually more. 

 

Or than up to each of us to confront the eventually changes in our own proper way. 

I have been totally slammed on TVF before, for suggesting that given the mercurial, and total variability of Thai immigration policy as applied in different offices, makes having 'at least' a Plan B prudent to say the least.

 

I have never lived in a country of which I wasn't a citizen or permanent resident (especially 3rd world countries), without having a backup escape plan

 

There are those, who I fear have lost, or frittered the ability to make a Plan B, go into a state of total denial.

 

It's rather sad really

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

the ability to make a Plan B

Well if one is akin to John "Hannibal" Smith, one doesn't need a plan B. 

[fvw53]

12 hours ago, DJ54 said:

Yep after rereading OP post the document was generated by himself. US and possibly other Embassies provide forms which

I have. 

 

OP have you always used self generated forms and what your Embassy accepts or do they have an Embassy provided form .

I used a template provided by the Embassy several years ago but this Affidavit remains MY declaration / the Embassy only does the legalisation of my signature which is normal

[Andycoops]

On 5/2/2019 at 11:04 AM, luckyluke said:

This is  big news ! 

 

With a "Letter of Income", one only needed to have the monthly income in your homeland, not to transfer it to Thailand. 

 

Is this a new regulation? 

 

Or again an interpretation of one Immigration officer at one office? 

You have to show proof of the income in  your Thai bank account so you must now transfer the money to Thailand.

Money in a bank outside Thailand is not accepted by Thai IB. 

[luckyluke]

Since when this new official regulation?

Strangely no mention of it here at Thai Visa. 

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

You have to show proof of the income in  your Thai bank account so you must now transfer the money to Thailand.

Money in a bank outside Thailand is not accepted by Thai IB. 

What about those who can still get Embassy letters?

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

What about those who can still get Embassy letters?

Perhaps some back up proof for the letter. Reports of people using one and all that was needed (no backup proof).

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, fvw53 said:

I used a template provided by the Embassy several years ago but this Affidavit remains MY declaration / the Embassy only does the legalisation of my signature which is normal

No, the embassy has to confirm that your statement is correct. This is exactly the reason some embassies are not doing this anymore, since they claim they can not verify the statements.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Andycoops said:

You have to show proof of the income in  your Thai bank account so you must now transfer the money to Thailand.

Money in a bank outside Thailand is not accepted by Thai IB. 

No, that is far from the rule. Sometimes proof is spending money in Thailand is required. But only sometimes, and it does not have to be the minimum 65k per month.

[fvw53]

57 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, the embassy has to confirm that your statement is correct. This is exactly the reason some embassies are not doing this anymore, since they claim they can not verify the statements.

sorry but the Belgian Embassy in BKK only confirms that I am the person signing my affidavit (equivalent to a statement under oath) and I had to use similar legalisations in other Belgian embassies since 1969 and it has never changed. The Thai authorities have their rules and so have the Belgian authorities.

[Pattaya46]

2 hours ago, Andycoops said:

You have to show proof of the income in  your Thai bank account so you must now transfer the money to Thailand.

Money in a bank outside Thailand is not accepted by Thai IB. 

That's fully false !

And the fact that ONE person got a problem with his Letter Of Income doesn't absolutely mean that the thousands people who use LOI will now have this same problem.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Pattaya46

[ThaiBunny]

2 hours ago, Andycoops said:

You have to show proof of the income in  your Thai bank account so you must now transfer the money to Thailand.

Money in a bank outside Thailand is not accepted by Thai IB. 

But does it have to be income? If I choose to keep a lump sum outside Thailand and choose to transfer 65K baht per month who's to say it's income? The Thai banks certainly can't - they know it as a money transfer, that's it

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

But does it have to be income? If I choose to keep a lump sum outside Thailand and choose to transfer 65K baht per month who's to say it's income? The Thai banks certainly can't - they know it as a money transfer, that's it

I think he means "deposit" as opposed to "income."  Same Same.

[Joe Mcseismic]

9 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Well if one is akin to John "Hannibal" Smith, one doesn't need a plan B. 

If one has plenty of dosh, one doesn't need a Plan B.......

[luckyluke]

54 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

If one has plenty of dosh, one doesn't need a Plan B

However I read here regularly people with dosh, having problems :

 

They don't want to put their money on a Thai bank account. 

 

They don't want to transfer monthly 65000 Thb. 

 

Mostly they don't have a proper solution, neither a plan, they  expect Thai Immigration comes with one that suits them personally. 

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

If one has plenty of dosh, one doesn't need a Plan B.......

It only takes a motorbike accident, where the BiB want to bang you up, or a serious illness, or injury, and plenty of dosh soon becomes not much dosh.  

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, fvw53 said:

sorry but the Belgian Embassy in BKK only confirms that I am the person signing my affidavit (equivalent to a statement under oath) and I had to use similar legalisations in other Belgian embassies since 1969 and it has never changed. The Thai authorities have their rules and so have the Belgian authorities.

If that is the case your income affidavit doesn't prove you have that income, so should be rejected by Thai authorities.

However I have not read this before on this or Dutch language sites, so there is something irregular here.

[Leaver]

37 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

However I read here regularly people with dosh, having problems :

 

They don't want to put their money on a Thai bank account. 

 

They don't want to transfer monthly 65000 Thb. 

 

Mostly they don't have a proper solution, neither a plan, they  expect Thai Immigration comes with one that suits them personally. 

This is not my circumstance, but there are many elderly foreigners here, with their own property, so no rent to pay, that could not eat or drink away 65k a month.  They are living here quite comfortably for less than 65k and breaking no laws.

 

How many Thai's earn 65k a month?

[fvw53]

34 minutes ago, stevenl said:

If that is the case your income affidavit doesn't prove you have that income, so should be rejected by Thai authorities.

However I have not read this before on this or Dutch language sites, so there is something irregular here.

As I wrote earlier an affidavit is equivalent to a statement under oath and it worked for me at IO the last 10 years.

My OP was written to inform other Forum members that it no longer worked for me (but that Thai authorities have the right to set and enforce their immigration rules)

[Leaver]

24 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

As I wrote earlier an affidavit is equivalent to a statement under oath and it worked for me at IO the last 10 years.

My OP was written to inform other Forum members that it no longer worked for me (but that Thai authorities have the right to set and enforce their immigration rules)

It's only a matter of time before all of these letters will not be accepted, even if your embassy is still issuing them.  The writing is on the wall. 

 

People should be preparing for that day, now. 

[stevenl]

33 minutes ago, Leaver said:

It's only a matter of time before all of these letters will not be accepted, even if your embassy is still issuing them.  The writing is on the wall. 

 

People should be preparing for that day, now. 

Nonsense, as long as the affidavit states that the income has been verified. That is exactly the reason this issue started, embassies not verifying and now claiming they can't verify.

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

They are living here quite comfortably for less than 65k and breaking no laws.

 

How many Thai's earn 65k a month?

The problem is those elderly foreigners, or any foreigner, don't make the laws, nor is their opinion of any value. 

 

We all here undergo the laws, some less arduous than others. 

 

We mostly have also a line which we can't or don't want to trepass. 

 

But that's of no concern of the lawmakers, they handle in a way they think is good for their country. 

 

I believe there are a lot of poor people in Thailand, but also many rich with a greater income than 65000 Thb a month. 

 

Generally it is not the poor people who are making the laws.

 

In Thailand, I believe it is those with a greater monthly income than 65000.

[Joe Mcseismic]

8 hours ago, Leaver said:

It only takes a motorbike accident, where the BiB want to bang you up, or a serious illness, or injury, and plenty of dosh soon becomes not much dosh.  

Insurance. Money. Insurance and insurance.

[mania]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

This is not my circumstance, but there are many elderly foreigners here, with their own property, so no rent to pay, that could not eat or drink away 65k a month.  They are living here quite comfortably for less than 65k and breaking no laws.

 

How many Thai's earn 65k a month?

 Point is what happens if

 

Thai's can go to any govt hospital & get treated for 30 baht

 

Elderly foreigners need to pay $$$

 

This is my guess as to why Thailand want to see the cash

Has not been helped by the many foreigners in recent years with go fund me pleas

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, luckyluke said:

However I read here regularly people with dosh, having problems :

 

They don't want to put their money on a Thai bank account. 

 

They don't want to transfer monthly 65000 Thb. 

 

Mostly they don't have a proper solution, neither a plan, they  expect Thai Immigration comes with one that suits them personally. 

If people don't want to do this, don't want to do that, they presumably don't want to live in Thailand all that much.

[sweatalot]

On 5/2/2019 at 11:20 AM, JTXR said:

The US embassy affidavit has always been just a certification of the US citizen's signature, never a certification of income. 

using this as a document to confirm something else than that your signature is your signature is just defrauding Thai immigration.

 

If it worked for so long this shows that they did not understand the letter. Why did they not request a translation by a confimed translator? Their mistake

 

Seems now they learn (at least some of them) to read and understand what they read.

 

No wonder when they are getting tough. And right so.

Now we all have to suffer from this mass abuse.

Edited May 5, 2019 by sweatalot

[Rimmer]

A post with an altered quote has been removed