SURVEY: Should Assange be extradited?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Criminal conspiracy, like a government using one of it's law enforcement agencies to illegally spy on political rivals hoping to turn dirt up prior to an election campaign? Or a political party conspiring with a foreign former espionage agent to compile a file of made up information to discredit political opponents? Or perhaps a political party's national committee conspiring with a "preferred" candidate to rob the real winner?

More hogwash. 

 

Enjoy what's coming your way in the months ahead. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

I fully agree with you. Besides, the USA will never extradite an American citizen to another country to be tried there, but apparently they fully expect other countries to cooperate and extradite their citizens to the USA. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me, to say the least.

More ignorance (or wilful misrepresentation of the truth) from Assange supporters.

 

Let's have some facts:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/extradition-requests-between-the-uk-and-us-from-april-2007-to-may-2014/extradition-requests-between-the-uk-and-us-from-april-2007-to-may-2014

[UASCB500BIKER]

He spent 7 years in JAIL all ready,, house arrest,,  Let him GO GO GO !!!!

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, UASCB500BIKER said:

He spent 7 years in JAIL all ready,, house arrest,,  Let him GO GO GO !!!!

Hiding from justice is not Gaol, nor is it 'time served'.

 

It might be described as wasting 7 of the best years of your life in a futile attempt to evade justice. 

[Pedrogaz]

Release him immediately per the international court rulings.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Release him immediately per the international court rulings.

What international court rulings?

[whitemouse]

10 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Should be given a Pulitzer for journalism and a hero parade. 

By that logic, Russian Intelligence services should also be given Pulitzer. Hacking into US vital networks,  is not journalism, some people call it cyber war, and Assange seems to be on wrong side.

[whitemouse]

8 hours ago, piewarmer said:

No, Chelsea Manning was an insider, she had all the required passwords as part of her job

 

 

Assange advised Chelsea Manning not to use her password, while accessing and downloading secrets, Assange offered to hack into US Gov systems without it being traced to Chelsea Manning. There are chat logs of their conversations, you can read them. 

[riclag]

There is a possibility Mr. Trump can work something out with the Queen ! I read Mr. Barr might  want to possibly offer immunity to JA.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/trump-faces-legal-and-political-hazards-if-assange-returns-to-the-us

Edited May 5, 2019 by riclag

[manarak]

no, he should not be extradited the the US.

US laws don't apply to non-americans outside of the USA.

if we start doing that, prepare to extradite people to Iran for breaking religious laws or to Turkey for insulting that creep Erdogan, or DailyMirror editors to Thailand for lèse-majesté.

Edited May 5, 2019 by manarak

[whitemouse]

5 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I think that " Beyond Reasonable Doubt  "only applies in criminal trials (with a jury empanelled, not Judge alone trials) in UK NZ and Australia, not for an extradition hearing/

I do not think the Beyond Reasonable Doubt applies in any USA jurisdiction let alone Federal Courts unfortunately.

Please say you are kidding! You do not know the one cornerstone of US' legal system?

 

'Beyond a Reasonable Doubt. The standard that must be met by the prosecution's evidence in a criminal prosecution: that no other logical explanation can be derived from the facts except that the defendant committed the crime, thereby overcoming the presumption that a person is innocent until proven guilty.'

 

Bench trial or Jury trial both require establishing guilt beyond doubt, here:

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/beyond+a+reasonable+doubt

 

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, riclag said:

There is a possibility Mr. Trump can work something out with the Queen ! I read Mr. Barr might  want to possibly offer immunity to JA.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/trump-faces-legal-and-political-hazards-if-assange-returns-to-the-us

Barr offering Assange immunity to avoid legal and political hazards for Trump. 

 

I guess you've completely given up on the separation of powers and the idea that the AG is not there to protect the President. 

[whitemouse]

3 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

I fully agree with you. Besides, the USA will never extradite an American citizen to another country to be tried there, but apparently they fully expect other countries to cooperate and extradite their citizens to the USA. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me, to say the least.

USA is country of laws, extraditions are subject to extradition treaties between countries.

 

US very much extradites its citizens. This is the &st Google hit, just today:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/05/tourist-extradited-from-us-to-australia-to-face-charges

 

Assange is indicted in US. He will be indicted to US, possibly after Sweden, if Sweden reinstates rape charges, that currently drop. Sweden will have first pick, because Swedish prosecutors filed charges before US sealed indictment. 

[manarak]

1 minute ago, whitemouse said:

USA is country of laws, extraditions are subject to extradition treaties between countries.

 

US very much extradites its citizens. This is the &st Google hit, just today:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/05/tourist-extradited-from-us-to-australia-to-face-charges

 

Assange is indicted in US. He will be indicted to US, possibly after Sweden, if Sweden reinstates rape charges, that currently drop. Sweden will have first pick, because Swedish prosecutors filed charges before US sealed indictment. 

fail.

Quote

A tourist who allegedly raped a woman in a Sydney apartment before fleeing the country hours later has been extradited from the United States to Australia to face charges.

The man, who was arrested in New York on a federal warrant in January, is accused of sexually and indecently assaulting a 21-year-old woman at a Carlton unit in June 2017.

The Nepalese national allegedly fled Australia in the hours after the incident.

 

[whitemouse]

3 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

I fully agree with you. Besides, the USA will never extradite an American citizen to another country to be tried there, but apparently they fully expect other countries to cooperate and extradite their citizens to the USA. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me, to say the least.

 

You are thinking of Russia. Russian law forbids extradition of  its citizens

[whitemouse]

14 minutes ago, manarak said:

no, he should not be extradited the the US.

US laws don't apply to non-americans outside of the USA.

if we start doing that, prepare to extradite people to Iran for breaking religious laws or to Turkey for insulting that creep Erdogan, or DailyMirror editors to Thailand for lèse-majesté.

By that logic US should not be able to prosecute any foreign terrorist.

 

Do you think US had a right to prosecute behind 1996 WTC bombing? 

[manarak]

1 minute ago, whitemouse said:

By that logic US should not be able to prosecute any foreign terrorist.

 

Do you think US had a right to prosecute behind 1996 WTC bombing? 

Chomper Higgot who liked your post is obviously confused, as usual.

 

The 1996 bombing was committed on US soil, so US Law applies.

 

[whitemouse]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Hiding from justice is not Gaol, nor is it 'time served'.

 

It might be described as wasting 7 of the best years of your life in a futile attempt to evade justice. 

 

Exactly, he wasted 7 years in Embassy, in hopes of being extracted to Russia, there was a plan, this is all documented. Then there was a plan to grant him diplomatic immunity, by granting Ecuador passport, UK did not accept that. All along, he was fugitive from law, having ran from Swedish prosecution, and then jumping bail in UK. He has brought it all onto himself, he could and should have face charges in Sweden. 

[whitemouse]

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Barr offering Assange immunity to avoid legal and political hazards for Trump. 

 

I guess you've completely given up on the separation of powers and the idea that the AG is not there to protect the President. 

Very likely! Now that Barr is openly President's personal lawyer, he will probably do everything to make Assange prosecution go away quietly. But it will be tricky, this administration has 18 months left, by then Barr is gone, US will have President, prosecutions take long time, Assange is currently doing his 50 weeks sentence in UK, then he will fight extradition in UK courts. 

[whitemouse]

21 minutes ago, manarak said:

fail.

 

 

 

 

 

This was posted earlier today on this thread by another poster, I repost his link:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/extradition-requests-between-the-uk-and-us-from-april-2007-to-may-2014/extradition-requests-between-the-uk-and-us-from-april-2007-to-may-2014

 

This is just UK:

 

Between 26 April 2007 and 31 May 2014, the UK requested the extradition of 8 American citizens and as a result of those requests, 5 were extradited in that period.

 

[riclag]

Mr. Trump is coming to visit the Queen next month ,does the monarch still have power to grant extradition requests in the UK to heads of state

[whitemouse]

40 minutes ago, manarak said:

no, he should not be extradited the the US.

US laws don't apply to non-americans outside of the USA.

if we start doing that, prepare to extradite people to Iran for breaking religious laws or to Turkey for insulting that creep Erdogan, or DailyMirror editors to Thailand for lèse-majesté.

 

This is what you wrote: 'US laws don't apply to non-americans outside of the USA.'

 

Look what happened to this non American, outside USA:

 

Khalid Sheik Mohammed was captured on March 1, 2003, in the Pakistani city of Rawalpindi by a combined operation of the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). Immediately after his capture, Mohammad was extraordinarily rendered to secret CIA prison sites in Afghanistan, then Poland, where he was interrogated by U.S. operatives.^[8] By December 2006, he had been transferred to military custody at Guantanamo Bay detention camp. In March 2007, after significant interrogations, Mohammed confessed to masterminding the September 11 attacks

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed

 

 

[whitemouse]

30 minutes ago, manarak said:

Chomper Higgot who liked your post is obviously confused, as usual.

 

The 1996 bombing was committed on US soil, so US Law applies.

 

Why do you think crime has to happen on US soil, in order for US to prosecute?

 

Bin Laden indicted by US for the first time. Bin Laden not US citizen, crime did not take place in USA:

 

The 1998 United States embassy bombings were attacks that occurred on August 7, 1998, in which more than 200 people were killed in nearly simultaneous truck bomb explosions in two East African cities, one at the United States Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, the other at the United States Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya.^[1]

The attacks, which were linked to local members of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, brought Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and their terrorist organization, al-Qaeda, to the attention of the U.S. public for the first time

[manarak]

3 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

Why do you think crime has to happen on US soil, in order for US to prosecute?

 

Bin Laden indicted by US for the first time. Bin Laden not US citizen, crime did not take place in USA:

 

The 1998 United States embassy bombings were attacks that occurred on August 7, 1998, in which more than 200 people were killed in nearly simultaneous truck bomb explosions in two East African cities, one at the United States Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, the other at the United States Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya.^[1]

The attacks, which were linked to local members of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, brought Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and their terrorist organization, al-Qaeda, to the attention of the U.S. public for the first time

it's the normal legal process.

 

the USA indicting everyone that pissed them off across the world is not due legal process.

 

furthermore, US embassies are considered US soil from a legal standpoint.

[manarak]

17 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

 

This is what you wrote: 'US laws don't apply to non-americans outside of the USA.'

 

Look what happened to this non American, outside USA:

 

Khalid Sheik Mohammed was captured on March 1, 2003, in the Pakistani city of Rawalpindi by a combined operation of the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). Immediately after his capture, Mohammad was extraordinarily rendered to secret CIA prison sites in Afghanistan, then Poland, where he was interrogated by U.S. operatives.^[8] By December 2006, he had been transferred to military custody at Guantanamo Bay detention camp. In March 2007, after significant interrogations, Mohammed confessed to masterminding the September 11 attacks

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed

 

 

first, it's fair to declare terrorists "enemy fighters".

 

second, he did mastermind the sept-11 attacks, which took place on US soil.

 

yet the very term "extraordianry rendition" means illegal extradition/abduction outside the legal process. so the Sheik is not a good example of legal process.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by manarak

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, manarak said:

no, he should not be extradited the the US.

US laws don't apply to non-americans outside of the USA.

if we start doing that, prepare to extradite people to Iran for breaking religious laws or to Turkey for insulting that creep Erdogan, or DailyMirror editors to Thailand for lèse-majesté.

El Chapo?  Saddam Hussein?  Noreiga?  Want me to continue? 

[KhunFred]

What possible good could extraditing him do???

[marcusarelus]

Just now, KhunFred said:

What possible good could extraditing him do???

Find out who he was actually working for. 

[manarak]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

El Chapo?  Saddam Hussein?  Noreiga?  Want me to continue? 

I don't want you to continue lining up irrelevant examples.

El Chapo -> crimes committed in the US

Saddam and Noriega: neither were extradited.

next...

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, manarak said:

I don't want you to continue lining up irrelevant examples.

El Chapo -> crimes committed in the US

Saddam and Noriega: neither were extradited.

next...

Noriega was arrested in Panama brought to the USA and tried in an American court.  El Chapo was extradited to America for crimes in Mexico and America and tried in America. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/world/el-chapo-extradited-mexico.html

https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/indictment-of-joaquin-guzman-loera-el-chapo/821/

Next

Edited May 5, 2019 by marcusarelus