Renew Retirement Extension at Phuket Immigration to day.

[skatewash]

22 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The answers you have received couldn't have been clearer and would be supported by an FoI request if any doubts remain. For Brits this falls into a category known as "The Embassy ain't doin' Nuffink" but in reality it usually means that the person hasn't done any homework or worse still, has listened to a bloke-in-a-pub. (???? )

HTH

Does the British Vice-Consul who gave an interview on the English radio station in Pattaya fall into that category?  All the FoI requests I have seen on this issue far from removing all doubts indicate that the embassy staff felt no need to keep notes of what was discussed at meetings with Thai Immigration.  So much of what you seem to know is without foundation or evidence.  Apparently, it is enough to satisfy you, but it does not satisfy me. 

The indisputable fact remains, that the embassies discontinued their income letters on their own initiative, Thai Immigration did not refuse to continue to accept them as issued.  You seem to have no answer to that fact and choose to ignore it.

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Does the British Vice-Consul who gave an interview on the English radio station in Pattaya fall into that category?  All the FoI requests I have seen on this issue far from removing all doubts indicate that the embassy staff felt no need to keep notes of what was discussed at meetings with Thai Immigration.  So much of what you seem to know is without foundation or evidence.  Apparently, it is enough to satisfy you, but it does not satisfy me. 

The indisputable fact remains, that the embassies discontinued their income letters on their own initiative, Thai Immigration did not refuse to continue to accept them as issued.  You seem to have no answer to that fact and choose to ignore it.

How many of those FoI requests originated from your keyboard?

Edited May 11, 2019 by evadgib

[jesimps]

20 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The answers you have received couldn't have been clearer and would be supported by an FoI request if any doubts remain. For Brits this falls into a category known as "The Embassy ain't doin' Nuffink" but in reality it usually means that the person hasn't done any homework or worse still, has listened to a bloke-in-a-pub. (???? )

HTH

Nonsense! All the embassies had to do was to verify the official letters from the pension services (at least in the cases of those receiving pensions). Please don't give me the twaddle about letters can be forged, because anything can be forged, and if not forged, obtained by corruption. Passports can be forged, so can bank books, bank letters, official stamps and signatures etc. Where does it stop? All the embassies have to say is that they verify the pension letters provided by Mr ........... Nothing will convince me that all the other embassies outside of the fab 4 are complying with the new Thai requirements, instead they're doing their best to help their citizens.

Having been a member of the British Foreign Service for many years I can vouch that of all the concerns of the Bangkok embassy, British citizens abroad is the least significant.

[skatewash]

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

How many of those FoI requests were YOU the author of?

I was the author of none of the FoI requests I have seen on the FoI site.  Please post any factual information or documentation that arose from any of the FoI requests that support your conclusions.  Whether you were the author or not of any FoI requests is immaterial.

[evadgib]

9 minutes ago, skatewash said:

I was the author of none of the FoI requests I have seen on the FoI site.  Please post any factual information or documentation that arose from any of the FoI requests that support your conclusions.  Whether you were the author or not of any FoI requests is immaterial.

#29

I'm done with this thread

+

Edited May 11, 2019 by evadgib

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Data protection legislation coupled with a lack of man hours rendered the ridiculous request from the Thai authorities beyond their reach.

The irony has, hopefully, not been lost on you (as an avowed Brexiteer), that, in the UK's case, the relevant data protection legislation is the EU's General Data Protection Regulation!

 

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

How did 'Every Other Embassy' skirt around Data Protection legislation in their homelands? My guess is that they didn't and (if right) the Thai's are no longer pushing as hard because they have seen the completely avoidable disruption that they caused.

So, assuming that your guess is correct, more fool the Australian, American and British Embassies, I think, for merely kowtowing to Immigration Bureau demands without demur like lambs to the slaughter!

 

32 minutes ago, JimSaints said:

At the Danish Embassy they employ very lazy people working slow so the work load for visas mean that they don't want to bother with pension letters - I just saw they look for 2 new employees that speaks Vietnamese … its a weird place

I gather, however, that the Danish Embassy have now seen the light and reinstated their income confirmation service!

 

[stephenterry]

2 hours ago, nasa123 said:

And the agent cost you ?.  

Altogether 8k including the IMM fee less the 1.5k Embassy letter, but I decided to use an agent for my Income renewal this year, and maybe next if procedures remain unclear as to what 'extras' IMM could require. The cost is worth peace of mind to me, albeit I am positive that my documentation is complete and an extension would be granted  - but you can never tell just what mood an IO is in.  

 

 

 

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

How many of those FoI requests originated from your keyboard?

Well, I can assure you that the reply I received to the FOI request that originated from my keyboard to the FCO back in the UK made absolutely no specific reference whatsoever to the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) as being the reason behind the British Embassy's decision to withdraw their income confirmation service. However it did include a reference to said GDPR as being the reason why they felt unable to inform individual British nationals of the imminent withdrawal of their income confirmation service - in stark contrast to the American Embassy who did not feel similarly constrained in individually notifying their nationals who were registered with them under the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program.

Edited May 11, 2019 by OJAS

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, OJAS said:

Well, I can assure you that the reply I received to the FOI request that originated from my keyboard to the FCO back in the UK made absolutely no specific reference whatsoever to the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) as being the reason behind the British Embassy's decision to withdraw their income confirmation service. However it did include a reference to said GDPR as being the reason why they felt unable to inform individual British nationals of the imminent withdrawal of their income confirmation service - in stark contrast to the American Embassy who did not feel similarly constrained in individually notifying their nationals who were registered with them under the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program.

Poppycock. No nation can expect to have 100 percent contact with all of their nationals that are in the kingdom on any given date; they therefore publish applicable details via their website or SM and rely on individuals bothering to periodically check in. Do you seriously think they should be checking that someone's mail is getting through or that others have more success by doing it any differently?

Edited May 11, 2019 by evadgib

[emptypockets]

Can someone let me in the secret as to what 'HTH' means??

[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Can someone let me in the secret as to what 'HTH' means??

 

HTH = Hope That Helps.

 

[skatewash]

8 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Can someone let me in the secret as to what 'HTH' means??

Hope this helps.  Sometimes sincerely meant, but other times used with a sarcastic intention.  The context will guide you to the most likely interpretation. ????

[emptypockets]

20 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

HTH = Hope That Helps.

 

It did, thank you.

I was trying to understand how hold the horses fitted in to the conversation.

[Thaidream]

6 hours ago, StevieAus said:

So perhaps the blame has to be laid at the correct door which includes the expats who have been providing false information.

The blame is on the Embassies  who stopped the letter as it is obvious that 80 other Embassies in Bangkok still provide the letter. All the 3 Embassies had to do was - ask for documentary proof of income- have the applicant swear it was true and issue the letter.  If there was some question about whether the letter was accurate- Thai Imm could ask for added proof.

 

If the US/UK/AUS embassies issued these letters right now- they would be accepted by Thai Immigration.  In fact- the US Embassy in Columbia and Peru still issue income letters bt asking for the documentation from the applicant and then issue the letter. 

 

The 3 Embassies have failed their citizens; caused undue chaos for  some of their applicants and stick out  among their peers- the other 80 embassies in Thailand- as not understanding how to assist their citizens but also  work with Thai Immigration.  

 

The United states; Australia and the United Kingdom have lost  face and any credibility in Thailand.  Denmark, who at first went along with the 3- have now reinstated their letter- 

[Jip99]

12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The blame is on the Embassies  who stopped the letter as it is obvious that 80 other Embassies in Bangkok still provide the letter. All the 3 Embassies had to do was - ask for documentary proof of income- have the applicant swear it was true and issue the letter.  If there was some question about whether the letter was accurate- Thai Imm could ask for added proof.

 

If the US/UK/AUS embassies issued these letters right now- they would be accepted by Thai Immigration.  In fact- the US Embassy in Columbia and Peru still issue income letters bt asking for the documentation from the applicant and then issue the letter. 

 

The 3 Embassies have failed their citizens; caused undue chaos for  some of their applicants and stick out  among their peers- the other 80 embassies in Thailand- as not understanding how to assist their citizens but also  work with Thai Immigration.  

 

The United states; Australia and the United Kingdom have lost  face and any credibility in Thailand.  Denmark, who at first went along with the 3- have now reinstated their letter- 

 

 

I have to agree with you.

 

I didn't at first, blaming Immigration for asking for 'guarantees'. 

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Poppycock. No nation can expect to have 100 percent contact with all of their nationals that are in the kingdom on any given date; they therefore publish applicable details via their website or SM and rely on individuals bothering to periodically check in. Do you seriously think they should be checking that someone's mail is getting through or that others have more success by doing it any differently?

But embassies should at least be able to have contact with all those nationals of theirs who are registered with them under schemes like STEP as operated by the American Embassy. In common with their counterparts elsewhere on this great planet of ours, the British Embassy in Bangkok used to operate a similar registration scheme called LOCATE - but, surprise, surprise, the FCO pulled the plug on this scheme worldwide on spurious economic grounds ages ago.

Edited May 11, 2019 by OJAS

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

The United states; Australia and the United Kingdom have lost  face and any credibility in Thailand. 

And therein, I suspect, lies the fundamental reason as to why these 3 nations' embassies will probably never recant by reinstating their income confirmation services. Puts paid to the myth that defiantly maintaining the status quo as an antidote to the possible consequences of "losing face" is solely restricted to Thais, I think!

Edited May 11, 2019 by OJAS

[nasa123]

How did this madness start last year?  The reason is that Thai Immigration does NOT believe in any of the Embassies in Bangkok, And then the ball began rolling.

[OJAS]

8 minutes ago, nasa123 said:

How did this madness start last year?  The reason is that Thai Immigration does NOT believe in any of the Embassies in Bangkok, And then the ball began rolling.

And it does appear that they're now prepared to believe all 80+ of 'em bar the trio who don't want to be believed!

Edited May 11, 2019 by OJAS

[skatewash]

3 minutes ago, OJAS said:

But it does appear that they're now prepared to believe all 80+ of 'em bar 3!

That's the crucial point that some are missing.  It's not that Thai Immigration is blameless, it's that some embassies reacted badly themselves (UK, US, Australia, and Denmark) while other embassies managed to react in a sober, restrained, dare I say, diplomatic manner.  Those four embassies failed their citizens, regardless of anything Thai Immigration did.

You can have someone tell you that they are unhappy with what you are doing.  You listen to them.  You explain why you are doing what you are doing.  You explain why you may not be able to do what you are being asked to do.  Then you sit back and wait for a reaction.  You don't get your knickers in a twist and in a snit snatch your ball up and run home.  That's the very definition of what you don't do.  

It's like when your wife complains that you don't wash the dishes after dinner, you don't leave the house, slam the door, and start interviewing divorce attorneys.  Unless, of course, that was your agenda before she complained.

[KiChakayan]

11 hours ago, nasa123 said:

In fact, I do not know but they require it no copy no extension.

Please check your statements in the coming months...????

[evadgib]

45 minutes ago, OJAS said:

But embassies should at least be able to have contact with all those nationals of theirs who are registered with them under schemes like STEP as operated by the American Embassy. In common with their counterparts elsewhere on this great planet of ours, the British Embassy in Bangkok used to operate a similar registration scheme called LOCATE - but, surprise, surprise, the FCO pulled the plug on this scheme worldwide on spurious economic grounds ages ago.

Locates failings were it's undoing but further comment is futile and drags the thread way off topic. 

 

[helloagain]

14 hours ago, nasa123 said:

In fact, I do not know but they require it no copy no extension.

In january not needed so this must be new. If this is the case i might do O visa. ***k them. Copy of atm or cc NO WAY. 

[a977]

18 hours ago, StevieAus said:

Absolute rubbish the Australian Embassy including when they visit Chiang Mai are still providing the same services as before including the certification of documents for which they charge a fee.

Read my post above and check your facts before posting nonsense.

They only stopped certifying income verification documents ((StatutoryDeclarations) because of the demands placed on them by Thai Immigration

In my case I receive a non government pension from Australia in order to meet the Thai Immigration requirements the Embassy in order to verify that the informationI stated in my declaration is correct they would have to contact my pension fund in Australia.

For the reasons stated by evadgib and the fact that my pension fund wouldn’t release the information without my written authority do you now understand the problem ??

I agree with you all we are asking them to do is witness a document that we sign in front of Embassy staff. To get around the problem of proof all one has to do is look up there Centrelink account and download the relevant information required, in your case you should be able to contact your pension fund and request a printout of your payments, then take that along to the Embassy and attach to affidavit so now the staff have to sign 2 pages to verify what you are saying. And all this for a 1 time low price of wait for it …………...1700thb. a bargain. Now if only someone would tell the buffoons in the Embassy it was our taxes that paid for Fort Knox AKA Australian Embassy on wireless road

[luckyluke]

The Austrian Consulate in Pattaya which is dealing with Austrians, Belgians, Dutch, French, Germans has included the words "We certify" " in their Letter of Income. 

 

As proof, I personally just show the Consulate a copy of my monthly pension incomes and a copy of my bank statement in Belgium showing the amounts credited. 

[Nurseynutcase]

22 hours ago, stephenterry said:

I understood, for the UK, that a Foreign Office audit had recommended additional cost cuts, which included to discontinue issue of income letters for Brits in Thailand.

 

IMO, the current British government is a waste of space.

 

 

 

 

How true!!!

[zaZa9]

9 hours ago, helloagain said:

In january not needed so this must be new. If this is the case i might do O visa. ***k them. Copy of atm or cc NO WAY. 

IMO , the request for a copy of the card , both sides , is just random.

Twice in my 11 years going to Phuket Town its been requested , without ever being listed as a requirement for Extension ( I do the 800k method ).

As far as they know , the card  copied could access ZERO money , but its another example of an Immigration Officer showing  who is boss , I guess.

 

Obtuse demands issued by Thai Immigration is something us and our Embassies should be used to.

We either act like we are complying and hand over the papers, whether they really prove anything  , or we refuse and Thai Immigration makes life hard for us.

Thai Immigration certainly predicated the changes we are now facing - the demands were covered extensively here on TV  , but the 'renegade four' Embassies had the choice to deal with the Thais by shrugging and delivering pretty much what they always did , or digging their heels.

Their choice has made life difficult even for me on the 800k method planning to switch  , as I will not have 12 months of monthly income to show , and nobody can show me where there has been  any 'leniency' , nor where the 'combo method' has been accepted at Phuket Immigration.

[OJAS]

17 hours ago, evadgib said:

Locates failings were it's undoing but further comment is futile and drags the thread way off topic. 

 

Doesn't reflect too well on the FCO IMHO if they can't be bothered to make (or are totally incapable of making) a registration system for Brits work effectively in the same way as their State Department pals can (and do) for Americans!

Edited May 12, 2019 by OJAS

[evadgib]

38 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Doesn't reflect too well on the FCO IMHO if they can't be bothered to make (or are totally incapable of making) a registration system for Brits work effectively in the same way as their State Department pals can (and do) for Americans!

That isn't deputed; but how do you get;

 

a) Citizens in any given country to register that they're there in the first place or

 

b  ) Citizens that are no longer in a country, or are in an entirely different one/continent when disaster strikes, or have died/remarried/changed name/passport/NOK/address/contact details/call themselves Mary at weekends & still expect their home nations' crystal ball to work everything out?

 

The Americans are unlikely to have any more success than anyone else re the above despite seemingly having a ratio of 1 to 1 in LoS.

Edited May 12, 2019 by evadgib

[pagallim]

Quite sad that this OP has degenerated into a general drip session/finger pointing exercise, and flogging a dead horse comes to mind.   I think everyone appreciates that the changes to Immigration criteria, be it through banking requirements or those Embassy's who have chosen to cease income letters, have had a significant impact to many Thai based Farang expats.    That said, what's done is done.   Time to move forward, and in that regard, those who post information of actual local experiences should be appreciated and the information used in a manner that is relevant to the reader in the context of their own circumstances.   Requests for advice to particular problems seem to be met with good intent and sound recommendations.