Wife was denied a USA B2 tourist visa - Wondering how we can fix the situation

[gavin310]

My wife recently had her visa interview and she was denied. She brought our 4 month old baby into the interview with her. We meticulously prepared all the required papers, including sponsorship papers (my father was/is the sponsor), plenty of photos, and everything else I read we should have. The interviewer looked at NONE of that. He asked for my wife's passport and my passport plus all my old passports (I have my current passport plus 2 old passports). My wife said he looked through her passport quickly and then spent about 10 minutes going through all my passports and asking why I have so many entries and exits to and from Thailand. He then told her he won't give her the tourist visa.

 

I've been staying in Thailand with various visa types for 8 years. I've mostly had multiple entry one year visas where I had to leave at least every 3 months, so obviously I racked up quite a few stamps and Cambodian/Laos visas in my passport. I've also had tourist visas and visa exemption stamps for the times I was in between "real" visas. For about a year I was employed by a Thai company and had a non-O visa and work permit (but to get that I had to go to Cambodia, get a 30 day entry stamp, and then fly to Hong Kong to apply for the non-O visa). I left that company and now have a 1 year non-O visa based on marriage that I got in Savannakhet, Laos. Soon I will be putting 400k baht into my Thai bank so I can get extensions of stay based on marriage at the local immigration office.

 

So obviously I have a lot going on in my current and previous passports, but I'm not doing anything illegal, so why was he grilling her so hard on the contents of my passport(s)? And then denying her a USA tourist visa without even looking at anything else we brought?

 

If anyone has had a similar experience I would really like to know how you fixed it. She emailed the ACS and they sent her back some prewritten/template response, so that wasn't any help.

 

Thanks for any help!

[Blue Muton]

Sorry, I can't help but sympathise with you, I've been succesfull with a fiance visa and a couple of tourist visas for Mrs BM but can imagine what a nightmare it would have been had the outcome been different, even more when a child is involved. Just keep pushing and I wish you better luck next time.

[lopburi3]

The issue is you and she appear to have no tie to Thailand so application for tourist visa appears to Embassy as a shortcut to arrive in USA as a tourist and change status to immigrant bypassing the normal immigrant visa process.  

 

In my case was retired so could show income and wife had gone through the immigrant visa process (after approval decided to remain in Thailand).  So that paperwork having been done as fact we had not moved to USA removed the above issue and 10 year tourist visa was issued.

[gavin310]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

Sorry, I can't help but sympathise with you, I've been succesfull with a fiance visa and a couple of tourist visas for Mrs BM but can imagine what a nightmare it would have been had the outcome been different, even more when a child is involved. Just keep pushing and I wish you better luck next time.

Thanks for the sympathy. It's especially frustrating since they won't tell you the exact reason.

[gavin310]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

The issue is you and she appear to have no tie to Thailand so application for tourist visa appears to Embassy as a shortcut to arrive in USA as a tourist and change status to immigrant bypassing the normal immigrant visa process.  

 

In my case was retired so could show income and wife had gone through the immigrant visa process (after approval decided to remain in Thailand).  So that paperwork having been done as fact we had not moved to USA removed the above issue and 10 year tourist visa was issued.

Thanks for the response. Do you think getting the 400k in the bank and getting marriage extensions will help? (I also forgot to mention my wife is employed, but the interviewer didn't look at any of her employment papers. She also has a car loan here.)

[lopburi3]

8 minutes ago, gavin310 said:

Thanks for the response. Do you think getting the 400k in the bank and getting marriage extensions will help? (I also forgot to mention my wife is employed, but the interviewer didn't look at any of her employment papers. She also has a car loan here.)

With the (thinking?) current in DC at this point in time do not know if would help but should not be a negative and indeed might be useful.  Also believe it would be better if you were able to support the travel rather than family.  The more you can do to prove you and wife intend to return to Thailand the better.  But understand it is difficult without expat type employment.  As an alternative perhaps help family make trip here to visit? 

[GinBoy2]

Yeah it's a bummer.

 

But to kinda re enforce @lopburi3 you probably over emphasized the connection to the US rather than the connection to Thailand.

 

The CO is always wary that the Thai is going to come to the US then apply for a change of status while in the country, rather than apply for an immigrant visa in Thailand.

 

Unlike the Brits, we don't get a written reason why a tourist visa is denied, so the best we do is speculate!

[SenorJorge]

He probably thought you are running some sort of scam or business out of thailand.  A lot of people don't understand how difficult it is to stay here long term and why entering and exiting is really the only option in a lot of cases.  This even goes for thai immigration.  I've been asked by them why ive had to leave so much.  They should know.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

Yeah it's a bummer.

 

But to kinda re enforce @lopburi3 you probably over emphasized the connection to the US rather than the connection to Thailand.

 

The CO is always wary that the Thai is going to come to the US then apply for a change of status while in the country, rather than apply for an immigrant visa in Thailand.

 

Unlike the Brits, we don't get a written reason why a tourist visa is denied, so the best we do is speculate!

Is it difficult to get your wife an immigrant visa in Thailand?  Is it easier to get one in America?  Why would you get your wife a tourist visa?  Can't you just say you are moving to USA?  Sorry if this is a stupid question. 

[Gumballl]

3 hours ago, gavin310 said:

Thanks for the response. Do you think getting the 400k in the bank and getting marriage extensions will help? (I also forgot to mention my wife is employed, but the interviewer didn't look at any of her employment papers. She also has a car loan here.)

It is your wife that is applying for the tourist visa, not you.

 

Your wife (not you) needs to convince the State Dept interviewer that she will not remain in the US once her visa has expired. Toting a kid along her does not help the situation; a reason to return to Thailand would -- for example: viable employment, sufficient funds in the bank, etc. Having a child, or a house, does not matter.

 

Anyhow, good luck. Btw, if you have been married for over 2 years, then I would suggest a CR1 visa. May be easier to obtain, and your wife does not have to settle there if she does not want to (but keep that to yourselves; do not mention it to the interviewer!).

Edited May 24, 2019 by Gumballl

[SenorJorge]

3 hours ago, gavin310 said:

Thanks for the response. Do you think getting the 400k in the bank and getting marriage extensions will help? (I also forgot to mention my wife is employed, but the interviewer didn't look at any of her employment papers. She also has a car loan here.)

This is where you'll get conflicting opinions.  Ubonjoe and a few lawyers I've spoken to have all told me that having a longterm visa (1 plus years) is what they really like to see at the embassy.   The thought is since you're the breadwinner she'll most likely return with you.  You may want to try puttting 40k+ into a thai bank for two months or so and take that to immigration before you dump 400 into a thai bank.  That can suffice for the income affidavit, depending on the cop you're dealing with

[55Jay]

Your Dad was the sponsor?  Does that mean he was indicated on her application as the one paying for the trip?   Yellow flag to follow up on.  Financial Ability. 

 

And that may be why he was so interested in your passport, knowing serial border runners often (not always) do that because they can't satisfy the financial requirements of in-country extensions. 

 

While getting successive Non-Os and doing border hops isn't illegal, it circles back around to financial ability.  It also kinda puts you in the basket with people who are cavalier about skirting the spirit and intent of host nation immigration laws and requirements, and that's obviously what these Embassy folks are trying to weed out.  

 

Work, money issues, wives, new born babies - all factors that motivate us to do things we might not do otherwise. 

[SenorJorge]

50 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

. 

 

While getting successive Non-Os and doing border hops isn't illegal, it circles back around to financial ability.  It also kinda puts you in the basket with people who are cavalier about skirting the spirit and intent of host nation immigration laws and requirements, and that's obviously what these Embassy folks are trying to weed out.  

 

Work, money issues, wives, new born babies - all factors that motivate us to do things we might not do otherwise. 

I know this isn't the place for argument, and you're probably right they are doing this, but it doesn't make any sense for them to do so.  If they're weeding out people with limited resources, my question is why?  What sense would it make for a person on a low pension or salary in Thailand to move their family to a more expensive country? 

 

Thai laws don't make sense either.  Why should a country in which most people don't even make 1300 usd per month require people to have so much in their account if they're married here?  I understand the retiree thing maybe.  But even that is set too high now.  Like I said before, though, whenever you enter a new country, you must play by their rules.  I'm beginning to look elsewhere, as I know many others are.

[impulse]

About 20 years ago when I first started traveling to China, I met a US guy flying to Beijing to read the riot act to the Embassy personnel who denied a fiance visa to his internet sweetheart, who he had been corresponding with for months, and spent a whole week and a half with her in person.

 

My heart goes out to the OP (and the lovelorn guy I met on that plane 15-20 years ago), but that experience was a real eye opener.

 

I can think of half a dozen reasons she may have been denied.  Maybe she has a history with the Embassy that the OP doesn't know about.  I met Chinese ladies on their 4th and 5th guy, still trying to get a visa.  Maybe the officer looked at the OP's passport and figured out he (as the husband) was using inappropriate visas and may be rejected next time he shows up in Thailand- and then what happens to her?  Or maybe he was wondering why the OP didn't have the dosh to get a non-OA and extensions based on marriage.

 

I wish the guys well.  Sincerely.   But sometimes, the officers are really doing the guys a favor when they deny a visa.  

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by impulse

[gavin310]

1 hour ago, 55Jay said:

Your Dad was the sponsor?  Does that mean he was indicated on her application as the one paying for the trip?   Yellow flag to follow up on.  Financial Ability. 

 

And that may be why he was so interested in your passport, knowing serial border runners often (not always) do that because they can't satisfy the financial requirements of in-country extensions.  

Yep my dad was the sponsor. You make an interesting point that I didn't think of. Since having our baby in January my finances haven't exactly been in stellar shape, so I wanted to make sure we used a sponsor with a more stable account history. I can see how that could be a red flag. New baby... finances aren't great here in Thailand... no strong ties to Thailand... sounds like a good time to pack up and take the whole family to the land of opportunity (lol?). Thanks for that perspective. I need to keep that in mind while preparing for our next interview, whenever that may be.

[GinBoy2]

8 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Is it difficult to get your wife an immigrant visa in Thailand?  Is it easier to get one in America?  Why would you get your wife a tourist visa?  Can't you just say you are moving to USA?  Sorry if this is a stupid question. 

Tourist & Immigrant visa are adjudicated totally differently.

 

Getting an immigrant visa in Thailand is a very simple objective process, check the boxes and you are good go, but remember it costs ~$1000 to get it done, rather expensive if the OP did simply want to go for a vacation!

 

So, it's pretty straightforward, assuming your wife, or husband hasn't done anything naughty and ended up in the 'monkey house'. Drugs & Prostitution are the usual killers for an immigrant visa.

 

As, for getting an immigrant visa while in the US, that's a real No No.

 

Thats one of the major things that worry the CO when a Thai applies for a tourist visa, that enter on a tourist visa, then apply for an adjustment of status

 

 

[gavin310]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

Tourist & Immigrant visa are adjudicated totally differently.

 

Getting an immigrant visa in Thailand is a very simple objective process, check the boxes and you are good go, but remember it costs ~$1000 to get it done, rather expensive if the OP did simply want to go for a vacation!

 

What I'm thinking about now is what we wasted on our last application, and there's no telling how many times it'll take before she's approved. 32k baht might not be so bad. But if she tells them she wants an immigrant visa because we'll frequently travel to the USA would they give her one? Or is it only for people who are relocating? Is the immigrant visa easier to get than a tourist visa?

[GinBoy2]

11 minutes ago, gavin310 said:

What I'm thinking about now is what we wasted on our last application, and there's no telling how many times it'll take before she's approved. 32k baht might not be so bad. But if she tells them she wants an immigrant visa because we'll frequently travel to the USA would they give her one? Or is it only for people who are relocating? Is the immigrant visa easier to get than a tourist visa?

There is a lot to unpack there.

 

I certainly wouldn't advocate stating; " she tells them she wants an immigrant visa because we'll frequently travel to the USA".  The purpose of an immigrant visa is to migrate to the United States, not to circumvent Tourist visa rules.

 

For an immigrant visa you would need to establish a US residence and be able to sign an affidavit of support for your spouse.

 

The other issue is. If you don't actually intend to move back to the US, there are time limits on how long a green card holder can spend outside of the United States, before the GC is revoked.

 

But all that being said, as I indicated previously immigrant visas are objective rather than subjective, as with Tourist visas 

Edited May 24, 2019 by GinBoy2

[JHolmesJr]

Fly to Mexico and walk right in.

[GinBoy2]

1 minute ago, JHolmesJr said:

Fly to Mexico and walk right in.

I don't think wading across the Rio Grande under cover of darkness is really an option!

 

I used to live in San Diego, and you certainly don't walk straight across the border at San Ysidro or San Diego!

[Damrongsak]

US Immigration (whatever) does say they they don't care about letters and promises for someone coming on a tourist visa.  Not in those words, but they've heard it all before.  One of my wife's cousins was recently refused a tourist visa, based on her situation.  The fact that we would be responsible for her had no bearing whatsoever. I don't think she told them that she would work illegally in my sis-in-law's restaurant to help pay for the trip. 

 

It may be a different story for sponsoring someone on an immigrant visa - used to be that way way back.  I did have to make an affidavit of support for 6 of my wife's siblings about 10+ years ago.  Had to pledge to support them above the poverty level if necessary until they had worked here for 10 years or some such.  That could have cost me $40,000 USD a year or thereabouts, though I doubt it's enforced very well.  I can't believe I did that, but they got jobs and things are working out.

 

As Ginboy2 says, immigrant visas are for immigrants who intend to reside in the USA permanently.  Travel time is limited unless someone works outside the US, and even then time may be limited.  40 years ago my wife got and immigrant visa.  We came back and she got a green card.  Then I got a quasi-government job with the US refugee program, so we went right back to Thailand for awhile. 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Damrongsak

[Number 6]

I don't think you approached it correctly. You appear to be unstable. Your wife should demonstrate as you ties to Thailand. Further, you should have done this before she was pregnant - yeah I know.

 

Do you live in Bangkok? Does your wife have a stable office sort of job? Did she have an employer reference and guarantee of her job upon return? My wife still gets one of these for mere trips to US.

 

I did the opposite. My wife, then gf created a packet that shown her to be independent. I was not sponsoring her and although I *reimbursed* her - she *paid* for her trip. She was accompanying me on a biannual trip to US on her own accord. She provided a work reference. Her assets were minimal at best.

 

I was literally on tourist visa at the time with pages of 30 day stamps but more 2 mo visas. Which even in 2010 getting difficult to obtain.

 

Gave her my passport and a letter stating that I, we had absolutely every intention of returning to Thailand. I dressed her very conservatively.

 

She was born in Bangkok, lives and works in Bangkok. She is extremely honest and has an honest face and genuine smile. CO made her promise to return if she wants to get married and live in US. She said that's fine, I only know the guy about a year.

 

Done.

 

We have been in and out five times. Especially thru NY it's two minutes with the computer system.

 

You shouldn't have let your father *sponsor* her. I think the in outs we're an issue as well. Obviously you've no money in the bank, O visa...he knew that. Prolly surmised you can't afford the kid and you're all going to US one way or another.

 

Bringing the kid might have been a mistake. You made no mention about a visa or what for the child. Catch 22.

 

Looks like a visit to Thailand for your parent/s

Edited May 24, 2019 by Number 6

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, gavin310 said:

Yep my dad was the sponsor. You make an interesting point that I didn't think of. Since having our baby in January my finances haven't exactly been in stellar shape, so I wanted to make sure we used a sponsor with a more stable account history. I can see how that could be a red flag. New baby... finances aren't great here in Thailand... no strong ties to Thailand... sounds like a good time to pack up and take the whole family to the land of opportunity (lol?). Thanks for that perspective. I need to keep that in mind while preparing for our next interview, whenever that may be.

This.

 

For the past 8 years, the OP has had no "anchor" either here or in his homeland. They don't like 'international gypsies' like they used to.

[55Jay]

14 hours ago, gavin310 said:

Yep my dad was the sponsor. You make an interesting point that I didn't think of. Since having our baby in January my finances haven't exactly been in stellar shape, so I wanted to make sure we used a sponsor with a more stable account history. I can see how that could be a red flag. New baby... finances aren't great here in Thailand... no strong ties to Thailand... sounds like a good time to pack up and take the whole family to the land of opportunity (lol?). Thanks for that perspective. I need to keep that in mind while preparing for our next interview, whenever that may be.

Right on, you got what I was trying to get at.  Optics, profiling, bias and, to varying degrees with different interviewers, the government drone mindset, doing these tedious interviews day after day.  Jaded.  Impatient. "NEXT!".  That sort of thing.  Perhaps moreso in Bangkok.  I've often thought applying through the Consulate up in Chiang Mai might be a more relaxed environment,  and we nearly did that for the wife's visa application end of last year. 

 

None of which does you any good now, of course, and that sucks. 

 

Hope the next shot at it works out for you guys. 

 

Cheers,

 

J

[55Jay]

16 hours ago, SenorJorge said:

I know this isn't the place for argument, and you're probably right they are doing this, but it doesn't make any sense for them to do so.  If they're weeding out people with limited resources, my question is why?  What sense would it make for a person on a low pension or salary in Thailand to move their family to a more expensive country? 

 

Thai laws don't make sense either.  Why should a country in which most people don't even make 1300 usd per month require people to have so much in their account if they're married here?  I understand the retiree thing maybe.  But even that is set too high now.  Like I said before, though, whenever you enter a new country, you must play by their rules.  I'm beginning to look elsewhere, as I know many others are.

No problem.  This was a tourist visa, not Immigrant, so the litmus test and conditions are obviously different than an Immigrant visa process.

 

Right, it wouldn't normally make sense to go from a low cost to high cost country unless, by its very nature, the low cost area = lower pay and restricted opportunities for foreigners. 

New baby comes along.  That changes things for most adults.  Read it quite often here on TVF, guys moving wife and kids back to his home country for potentially better work/income opportunities and, ideally, better education and foundation for the kids and their adult lives.

 

Having a family support network "back home", like the OP, can help make this big, expensive, stressful move possible.

 

A tourist visa is, generally, the easiest, quickest path to get boots on the ground in the US vs. the Immigrant visa process.  

 

Embassy staff are aware of all this and have to make a judgement call.  Not always right or fair, then again, they have to deal with people who aren't honest about their intentions.  It is what it is.

 

Very possible the OP's wife would have had a different outcome with a different Embassy interviewer. 

[gavin310]

On 5/24/2019 at 6:51 PM, 55Jay said:

Your Dad was the sponsor?  Does that mean he was indicated on her application as the one paying for the trip?   Yellow flag to follow up on.  Financial Ability. 

 

And that may be why he was so interested in your passport, knowing serial border runners often (not always) do that because they can't satisfy the financial requirements of in-country extensions. 

 

While getting successive Non-Os and doing border hops isn't illegal, it circles back around to financial ability.  It also kinda puts you in the basket with people who are cavalier about skirting the spirit and intent of host nation immigration laws and requirements, and that's obviously what these Embassy folks are trying to weed out.  

 

Work, money issues, wives, new born babies - all factors that motivate us to do things we might not do otherwise. 

Thanks for that perspective. It makes sense.