elmrfudd Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, heybruce said: As the Fox News pundits have made very clear, when simple minds hear the same lies repeated many times, they believe them. so if people disagree with your opinion, they just can not be as intelligent as you. Another liberal fallacy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, elmrfudd said: perhaps the more important question is not this mystical "reach" but the effect. that would be the consideration most important, unless of course you are stuck in a hate fueled emotional fallacy. You do not specify any successful actions taken in your examples, with the exception of the Soviets attempting to hurt Nixon's Presidential campaign by delaying talks on releasing two Air Force prisoners. By that standard, Iran committed massive election interference by delaying the release of the US Embassy hostages until after the 1976 election. 80,000 Facebook posts reaching 29 million Americans. That's not even mentioning the Twitter BS the Russians unleashed. When has a foreign power done that much to influence a US election. The effect will never be known, we can't rerun the election. However to assume there was no effect would be stupid, if not traitorous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmrfudd Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, heybruce said: 20 minutes ago, elmrfudd said: the results show there was no validity to the investigation in the first place No validity in spite of the documented interference, indictments, convictions, guilty pleas, etc? interference in what? by whom? conviction of unrelated crimes and a process crime. weak and feckless bruce 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, elmrfudd said: so if people disagree with your opinion, they just can not be as intelligent as you. Another liberal fallacy When people have reasoned differences with my opinions based on facts I respect them. When people actively avoid inconvenient facts and blindly buy into conspiracy theories, then they are not intelligent by any standards. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, elmrfudd said: interference in what? by whom? conviction of unrelated crimes and a process crime. weak and feckless bruce Now you are definitely trolling. The Russian interference has been partially described and a link to the Mueller report, along with a page number where the summary of the interference begins, has been provided. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmrfudd Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, attrayant said: 9 minutes ago, elmrfudd said: 24 minutes ago, heybruce said: Did misinformation from these attempts reach 29 million Americans? perhaps the more important question is not this mystical "reach" but the effect. Reach and effect are directly correlated. The more people reached, the greater the effect. not true. it is the severity or effectiveness of the attempt. facebook ads did not get trump elected, neither did Russia. get over it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmrfudd Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, heybruce said: 23 minutes ago, elmrfudd said: interference in what? by whom? conviction of unrelated crimes and a process crime. weak and feckless bruce Now you are definitely trolling. The Russian interference has been partially described and a link to the Mueller report, along with a page number where the summary of the interference begins, has been provided. I am not trolling, I am pointing out that it did not put Trump in the whitehouse. you will of course still believe it did regardless. over 2 years and you are still trying to justify her loss by blaming it on other influences. but you are not alone there are plenty of other delusional souls out there Edited June 7, 2019 by elmrfudd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attrayant Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, elmrfudd said: not true. it is the severity or effectiveness of the attempt. Which is directly correlated to the reach. Go back and study basic marketing. 2 minutes ago, elmrfudd said: facebook ads did not get trump elected, neither did Russia. Which is in response to something I did not say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmrfudd Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, attrayant said: Which is directly correlated to the reach. Go back and study basic marketing. Which is in response to something I did not say. nonsense. you have no idea which election meddling in the past or present had more effect, if it had any at all. go back and study reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, heybruce said: You really need to proof-read before you post. I think you are saying the 80,000 Facebook posts were initiated between the time of Obama's warning to Putin in September 2016 and the election. No, they were initiated earlier. Like I said on Obama's watch Edited June 7, 2019 by riclag 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attrayant Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 42 minutes ago, elmrfudd said: you have no idea which election meddling in the past or present had more effect, if it had any at all. Another claim I didn't make. At least you're admitting there was election meddling now. I guess that's some kind of progress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, elmrfudd said: not true. it is the severity or effectiveness of the attempt. facebook ads did not get trump elected, neither did Russia. get over it. 1 hour ago, elmrfudd said: I am not trolling, I am pointing out that it did not put Trump in the whitehouse. you will of course still believe it did regardless. over 2 years and you are still trying to justify her loss by blaming it on other influences. but you are not alone there are plenty of other delusional souls out there Rational people understand that there is no way of knowing how the election would have turned out without Russian interference. I have stated that many times in many ways. Irrational people pretend they know. They are wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, riclag said: Like I said on Obama's watch Obama responded. Trump hasn't. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmrfudd Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, attrayant said: 1 hour ago, elmrfudd said: you have no idea which election meddling in the past or present had more effect, if it had any at all. Another claim I didn't make. At least you're admitting there was election meddling now. I guess that's some kind of progress. you made the claim one was more effective than another, which you have no idea of that being true. Meddling has always occurred, never said it didn't. there is zero evidence it had any effect. if you can admit that, then that would be progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmrfudd Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, heybruce said: 1 hour ago, elmrfudd said: not true. it is the severity or effectiveness of the attempt. facebook ads did not get trump elected, neither did Russia. get over it. 1 hour ago, elmrfudd said: I am not trolling, I am pointing out that it did not put Trump in the whitehouse. you will of course still believe it did regardless. over 2 years and you are still trying to justify her loss by blaming it on other influences. but you are not alone there are plenty of other delusional souls out there Rational people understand that there is no way of knowing how the election would have turned out without Russian interference. I have stated that many times in many ways. Irrational people pretend they know. They are wrong. rational people understand that people voted how they wanted to and were smart enough to make up their own minds for their own reasons. irrational people think these attempts could have changed the outcome. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, heybruce said: Obama responded. Trump hasn't. After years and years he dropped it all on Mr. Trump .Russian interference happen before Trump took office ! For many years during Obama's watch! The left admits he didn't do enough. I have said this in my prior comments.It all started before Mr. Trump https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-content/ Edited June 7, 2019 by riclag 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, riclag said: After years and years he dropped it all on Mr. Trump .Russian interference happen before Trump took office ! For many years during Obama's watch! The left admits he didn't do enough. I have said this in my prior comments.It all started before Mr. Trump https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-content/ Even if one was to accept the way you try and paint things, was the situation addressed better addressed under Trump's administration, and if so, was it to do with the President's views, wishes and policies? If I'm not entirely wrong, you yourself made various claims ranging between no interference taking place, and said-non-existent-interference-having no effect. Just trying to get a handle on the position you argue from at present. The same, by the way, applies for Trump himself. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, riclag said: After years and years he dropped it all on Mr. Trump .Russian interference happen before Trump took office ! For many years during Obama's watch! The left admits he didn't do enough. I have said this in my prior comments.It all started before Mr. Trump https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-content/ The ball is now in Trump’s court. He could start by ordering protections to be put in place against foreign interference in the 2020 election. Oddly, he and the Republicans have done the exact opposite and are actively blocking legislation to provide protection of the election. Let’s hear an explanation for that?! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmrfudd Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said: The ball is now in Trump’s court. He could start by ordering protections to be put in place against foreign interference in the 2020 election. Oddly, he and the Republicans have done the exact opposite and are actively blocking legislation to provide protection of the election. Let’s hear an explanation for that?! what protections do you think would work? when you say republicans are "blocking" legislation, are you referring to a bill that also contains loads of other things in it or a singular specific bill that targets just this issue? instead they come up with this ridiculous thing: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1/text explain that this will stop russian interference 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, elmrfudd said: what protections do you think would work? when you say republicans are "blocking" legislation, are you referring to a bill that also contains loads of other things in it or a singular specific bill that targets just this issue? instead they come up with this ridiculous thing: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1/text explain that this will stop russian interference Is that you admitting Russian interference?! It seems so given I never mentioned Russians. Were is the Republican bill to protect the election? Two years with a majority in both houses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Morch said: Even if one was to accept the way you try and paint things, was the situation addressed better addressed under Trump's administration, and if so, was it to do with the President's views, wishes and policies? If I'm not entirely wrong, you yourself made various claims ranging between no interference taking place, and said-non-existent-interference-having no effect. Just trying to get a handle on the position you argue from at present. The same, by the way, applies for Trump himself. I have no idea what your talking about . I was responding to #342 "And evidence indicates that Vlad, once confronted by Obama, did reduce the interference. However now that Vlad's candidate won, we can expect much more of that kind of interference". I responded that the prior admin. did very little to change interference. Its so obvious that for years during Obama, Vlad kept it up!. Now the bias media neglects to mention this! And puts the blame on Mr. Trump ! What's Trump doin ! The same as every POTUS Edited June 7, 2019 by riclag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmrfudd Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 28 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: 35 minutes ago, elmrfudd said: what protections do you think would work? when you say republicans are "blocking" legislation, are you referring to a bill that also contains loads of other things in it or a singular specific bill that targets just this issue? instead they come up with this ridiculous thing: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1/text explain that this will stop russian interference Is that you admitting Russian interference?! It seems so given I never mentioned Russians. Were is the Republican bill to protect the election? Two years with a majority in both houses! Admitting interference that has been going on for decades? how shocking Chomp... All of a sudden when Trump wins, it is a existential threat...how shocking The democrats have the house, bring a bill that actually has this issue addressed without a load of other BS in it. but then this same blather will be used when he gets reelected. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 On 6/3/2019 at 9:19 PM, Jingthing said: Funny. He was awfully polite to 45. Found 10 counts of obstruction of justice, didn't even push him to answer questions about them, and then did not indict. But he has made it clear from his POV that's not his job to prosecute a sitting and tweeting president. It's the job of congress and also prosecutors after he leaves office, the sooner the better. He could have pointed out the high crimes and misdemeanours that he believes Trump is guilty of, but he didn't. Just because he doesn't think Trump can be indicted while president, he wasted a lot of taxpayer money by not presenting any evidence of wrongdoing, when that was the reason for his investigation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 hours ago, elmrfudd said: rational people understand that people voted how they wanted to and were smart enough to make up their own minds for their own reasons. irrational people think these attempts could have changed the outcome. Seriously? You maintain that even though fools use Facebook for news, and a Russian troll farm had great success infiltrating Facebook, it had no success? You maintain that late breaking news, such as new rumors about a candidate's character, does not affect how people vote, or how many people make the effort to vote? Care to explain why you consider your views a proven fact and not a wishful opinion? As I stated, rational people understand there is no way to know the outcome of the election if there had been no interference. The fact that you think otherwise says all we need to know about your rationality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thaibeachlovers Posted June 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, heybruce said: Seriously? You maintain that even though fools use Facebook for news, and a Russian troll farm had great success infiltrating Facebook, it had no success? You maintain that late breaking news, such as new rumors about a candidate's character, does not affect how people vote, or how many people make the effort to vote? Care to explain why you consider your views a proven fact and not a wishful opinion? As I stated, rational people understand there is no way to know the outcome of the election if there had been no interference. The fact that you think otherwise says all we need to know about your rationality. How many people actually read any of the troll farm output, and how many of them changed their vote because of it? No one knows the answer to that. I don't use face<deleted>, and surely most people have better things to do with their time than read stupid posts about Trump on it. Probably most people that voted for Trump actually work for a living, and don't have time to waste reading fake news on a stupid web site. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmrfudd Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, heybruce said: Seriously? You maintain that even though fools use Facebook for news, and a Russian troll farm had great success infiltrating Facebook, it had no success? You maintain that late breaking news, such as new rumors about a candidate's character, does not affect how people vote, or how many people make the effort to vote? Care to explain why you consider your views a proven fact and not a wishful opinion? As I stated, rational people understand there is no way to know the outcome of the election if there had been no interference. The fact that you think otherwise says all we need to know about your rationality. Seriously? over 2 years of this "stolen" election blather, constantly moaning that you did not get your desired result. He won. Fair and square, as much as anyone else has in the past. if you are too emotionally and irrationally wrapped up in the silly fairy tale of an election being "stolen" by "hacking the election" there is no hope you have any chance to get over it. so keep up the outrage and keep your fantasy alive if you need to feed your narrative. that says all all we need to know about your rationality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, elmrfudd said: what protections do you think would work? when you say republicans are "blocking" legislation, are you referring to a bill that also contains loads of other things in it or a singular specific bill that targets just this issue? instead they come up with this ridiculous thing: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1/text explain that this will stop russian interference Please explain why a bill that would make it harder to gerrymander, expand ethics requirement, limit special interest money, and make it easier for eligible voters to vote is a bad thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: How many people actually read any of the troll farm output, and how many of them changed their vote because of it? No one knows the answer to that. I don't use face<deleted>, and surely most people have better things to do with their time than read stupid posts about Trump on it. Probably most people that voted for Trump actually work for a living, and don't have time to waste reading fake news on a stupid web site. "How many people actually read any of the troll farm output, and how many of them changed their vote because of it? No one knows the answer to that." Hallelujah! You're almost there. Yes, nobody knows the answer to your question, so nobody knows how it affected the election. Don't you agree? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 hours ago, riclag said: After years and years he dropped it all on Mr. Trump .Russian interference happen before Trump took office ! For many years during Obama's watch! The left admits he didn't do enough. I have said this in my prior comments.It all started before Mr. Trump https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-content/ History has shown Obama did not do enough, but hindsight is always 2020. Russian interference did not end in 2016. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/us/politics/fbi-russian-election-interference.html What has Trump done? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: He could have pointed out the high crimes and misdemeanours that he believes Trump is guilty of, but he didn't. Just because he doesn't think Trump can be indicted while president, he wasted a lot of taxpayer money by not presenting any evidence of wrongdoing, when that was the reason for his investigation. Help me out with this one: Mueller was appointed to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election (he found and documented a lot) and possible conspiracy with the Trump campaign. He did not find sufficient evidence to recommend charges on the latter. Are you now stating that Mueller was remiss in not expanding his investigation to look for high crimes and misdemeanors committed by Trump? If you're willing to call him back and let him continue investigating these matters, I'm fine with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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