Mueller says he could not charge Trump as Congress weighs impeachment

[JHolmesJr]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Barr has more pressing concerns than facing charges of perjury.

 

He’s just placed himself in the crosshairs of Judge Sullivan for contempt of court.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, brycspain said:

I just can't believe how naive Liberals are.  Really, IRS targeting of Tea Party groups, Eric Holder saying he was Obama's wingman...hand-picked to be Obama's Attorney General.  DACA enacted by Obama but Trump can't withdraw the EO?  What about Bill Clinton meeting with Loretta Lynch on a tarmac for 40 minutes right before Hillary got off the hook?  How many Federal Judges have issued blanket injunctions on Trump during the last 2 years and he stopped the actions every time.  What separation of powers?...you mean Separation of powers when Republicans are in power and no separation of powers when Democrats are in power...is that what you mean?  Another CNN lover.

But but but Obama … 

[brycspain]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But but but Obama … 

See, we use examples to show your hipocrisy.  You say Barr was hand-picked by Trump yet Eric Holder told everybody he was Obama's wingman.  I thought the AG was supposed to be independent?  I bet you never complained once while Eric Holder was AG ....  Another thing....Obama blamed Bush for 8 years....everything was Bush's fault.  Selectively forget that too?  I for one would like to forget the Obama years but you guys love erasing history so you do this crap every 4 to 8 years.  I remember history and that's why I voted for Trump and he has exceeded my expectations.  The political class has ruined America.

[Rimmer]

Some troll also baiting posts removed

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, brycspain said:

What has Trump screwed up on the world's stage?  Waiting for specifics?

I explain below how he screwed up nuclear negotiations with North Korea.  Let's see what else;

 

Launching a trade war with China was justified.  Simultaneously launching a trade war with all the countries we trade with, most of which would have been useful allies in our trade war with China, was stupid.

 

Insulting and alienating allies while cozying up to dictators has destroyed the US reputation as a supporter of freedom and democracy.

 

Trusting Putin more than his own intelligence agencies, along with sharing highly classified foreign intelligence with Russia, has destroyed US credibility with allies that used to share intelligence with us.

 

I'll let others volunteer more examples.  I'll challenge you to find a democratic ally of the US who thinks Trump has improved the US standing in the world.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

What was Kim Jong given? And what is he doing that is worse than he was doing prior to Trump taking office? 

Yes, Trump should have brought a new reset (overcharge?) button to the talks. I am encouraged you support and respect John Bolton and Mike Pompeo, id gives us some common ground.

What “highly classified foreign intelligence” did Trump give to Russia?

There are good white supremacists. Now give me the ten Trump lies, at least one of which has had a greater negative effect on my life than “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.”.

When Trump claims millions of undocumented Democrats are voting when it’s really only thousands, I am not bothered.

If the evidence supported a conviction, Nancy would bring it. She knows it does not. If I saw evidence of Trump truly obstructing justice to avoid being prosecuted for a crime he had committed (something more serious than tearing the label off a mattress) I would stop supporting him immediately as would millions of other people.

I understand you believe that bar was met and that he became a criminal the moment he asked someone to go easy on Flynn, or when he fired Comey, or when he discussed firing Mueller or when he asked someone to not mention he discussed firing Mueller, but I don’t see it that way.

He is under constant attack in the press and the left is relentlessly threatening him and his family.

I understand there does not have to be an underlying crime to be changed with obstruction of justice, but I don’t think the bar has been met in this case, you do, whatever.

I hope you guys impeach him and every scrap of information comes out. I hope everyone involved is forced to testify in open hearings and every moment of it is televised around the world. I want the transcripts published in their entirety every day and made available to download free. Let’s absolutely get to bottom of it before the next election.

Is regurgitating a sound sound-bite about Mitch McConnell putting “party and power ahead of country” supposed to be convincing? Do we not hear that from virtually every media outlet every time anyone does anything that does not promote the left wing agenda?

I don’t want America fundamentally transformed.
 

" What was Kim Jong given? And what is he doing that is worse than he was doing prior to Trump taking office? "

 

Nothing.  That was the point of my post; Kim Jong Un has been playing the same game that North Korean leaders have been playing for decades.  He launches missiles and test nukes to get attention, demands a meeting with the US President to give himself international respectability, settles for lower level meetings where he extracts as many concessions as possible, then violates every commitment made.

 

Only this time he actually got the meeting with the US President and the international respectability, along with a cancellation of US/South Korean joint drills.  It was a wet dream for Kim.  All he had to do in return was make vague commitments and temporarily halt tests he could no longer afford anyway.  It was a major rookie move by Trump.

 

I don't support and respect John Bolton and Mike Pompeo, I just recognize that they are not as ignorant and easily duped regarding North Korea as Trump.

 

"What “highly classified foreign intelligence” did Trump give to Russia?"

 

Really?  Have you already forgotten, or do you not pay any attention to legitimate news?  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?noredirect&utm_term=.0ed53eef45ec

 

"There are good white supremacists."

 

Unless you source that statement, it is meaningless.  However since you asked for documented Trump lies, I'll give you this two year old list.  Once you're done with it, I'll provide some more recent lies.  Have fun:  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html

 

"When Trump claims millions of undocumented Democrats are voting when it’s really only thousands, I am not bothered."

 

Really?  The difference between millions and thousands doesn't bother you?  And what is your evidence that thousands of undocumented Democrats, or anyone else, are voting?

 

The rest of your post is just opinion, but I do find this claim interesting:

 

" He is under constant attack in the press and the left is relentlessly threatening him and his family. "

 

Can you provide evidence of this?  How does it compare to him calling the press the enemy of the people?

 

I'm curious, where do you get your news?

[mogandave]

See, we use examples to show your hipocrisy.  You say Barr was hand-picked by Trump yet Eric Holder told everybody he was Obama's wingman.  I thought the AG was supposed to be independent?  I bet you never complained once while Eric Holder was AG ....  Another thing....Obama blamed Bush for 8 years....everything was Bush's fault.  Selectively forget that too?  I for one would like to forget the Obama years but you guys love erasing history so you do this crap every 4 to 8 years.  I remember history and that's why I voted for Trump and he has exceeded my expectations.  The political class has ruined America.

 

My expectations for Trump were pretty low, but they were exceeded when Neil Gorsuch was confirmed.

 

If he doesn’t do anything else, he has done enough to have made him the better choice.

 

If he is found guilty of treason, I will support his public execution, but that will not change my position that he was the better choice.

[heybruce]

56 minutes ago, brycspain said:

See, we use examples to show your hipocrisy.  You say Barr was hand-picked by Trump yet Eric Holder told everybody he was Obama's wingman.  I thought the AG was supposed to be independent?  I bet you never complained once while Eric Holder was AG ....  Another thing....Obama blamed Bush for 8 years....everything was Bush's fault.  Selectively forget that too?  I for one would like to forget the Obama years but you guys love erasing history so you do this crap every 4 to 8 years.  I remember history and that's why I voted for Trump and he has exceeded my expectations.  The political class has ruined America.

Can you give a reference for the Eric Holder wingman claim?

 

I don't recall Obama blaming Bush for eight years, even though Bush left him with two unfinished wars, a $1.3 trillion deficit and an economy in freefall. This after Bush inherited a country at peace with a budget surplus and a mild recession.  Bush fans were reminding people of that mild recession even after Bush left office.

 

You remember history, but you don't remember the above, do you?

[JHolmesJr]

53 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Can you give a reference for the Eric Holder wingman claim?

 

just goes to show how ill informed you are (CNN boy)...or how you like to deliberately cherrypick claims.

dont be lazy...google is your friend.

[mogandave]

 
just goes to show how ill informed you are (CNN boy)...or how you like to deliberately cherrypick claims.
dont be lazy...google is your friend.

In all fairness, it is much more difficult to find facts than it is to find articles bashing Trump.

Wasn’t it something like, I’m the President’s wing-man, I’m still there with my boy.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Can that apply to all the Trump haters as well please?

We all know that some on here loath Trump, but there's no need to fill pages and pages with hateful rantings about how evil Trump is and bring up his entire history to make rather pointless attacks on him because of some builder Trump scammed years before he was even thinking of being president. We got it long ago ( about 2 years ago to be more precise ).

 

Trump IS the President. You think his history of misconduct is irrelevant to his present day misconduct? Guess everyone entitled to an opinion, regardless of how much sense it makes. And no, the post you responded to mentioned being able to "refute the message" - I think there's plenty of posts doing just that with regard to Trump, his administration and views aired by supporters here.

 

[Morch]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Pity then, that he colluded in this shameful witch hunt against the president. Rather spoiled his wonderful record, IMO.

 

There was no "witch hunt". That you embrace Trump's narrative doesn't make it true.

[bristolboy]

William Barr just contradicted himself over a key claim he's made about Mueller's obstruction findings

Attorney General William Barr contradicted himself in a significant way during an exclusive interview with CBS News, during which he revealed that the Department of Justice (DOJ) "didn't agree with the legal analysis" the former special counsel Robert Mueller used in his obstruction-of-justice investigation into President Donald Trump.

The attorney general added during the CBS interview that Mueller's analysis "did not reflect the views of the department" and instead represented "the views of a particular lawyer or lawyers."

But on May 1, while testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Barr said the department "accepted the special counsel's legal framework for purposes of our analysis and evaluated the evidence as presented by the special counsel in reaching our conclusion" in the obstruction case.

https://www.businessinsider.com/barr-contradicted-himself-key-claim-made-mueller-obstruction-findings-2019-5

[JHolmesJr]

^^More hair-splitting, anti-trump troll nonsense....accepting a legal framework does not mean committing to accept the ultimate shoddy legal analysis presented.

 

Rob Mueller is a purveyor of BS...Ive never seen anyone in law use such obfuscatory language

and play such deceitful tai chi with words.

 

His incompetent analysis is not the standard applied by the DOJ to rule on crimes...period.

 

So he can sod off...or present himself to congress....where he will be peeled like

an onion and exposed for his part in a charade designed to wreak maximum damage

to President Trump's re-election campaign. Bring it on Mueller!

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, JHolmesJr said:

Lets get back on topic.....

 

Rob Mueller is a purveyor of BS...Ive never seen anyone in law use such obfuscatory language

and play such deceitful tai chi with words.

 

His incompetent analysis is not the standard applied by the DOJ to rule on crimes...period.

 

So he can sod off...or present himself to congress....where he will be peeled like

an onion and exposed for his part in a charade designed to wreak maximum damage

to President Trump's re-election campaign. Bring it on Mueller!

Thank you for your reasoned and detailed analysis of Mueller's words. How could anyone not be convinced by your dispassionate review?

[mogandave]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

William Barr just contradicted himself over a key claim he's made about Mueller's obstruction findings

Attorney General William Barr contradicted himself in a significant way during an exclusive interview with CBS News, during which he revealed that the Department of Justice (DOJ) "didn't agree with the legal analysis" the former special counsel Robert Mueller used in his obstruction-of-justice investigation into President Donald Trump.

The attorney general added during the CBS interview that Mueller's analysis "did not reflect the views of the department" and instead represented "the views of a particular lawyer or lawyers."

But on May 1, while testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Barr said the department "accepted the special counsel's legal framework for purposes of our analysis and evaluated the evidence as presented by the special counsel in reaching our conclusion" in the obstruction case.

https://www.businessinsider.com/barr-contradicted-himself-key-claim-made-mueller-obstruction-findings-2019-5

 

I am not clear how the two statements contradict each other.

Why could the report not be acceptable to use for DOJ analysis, while having portions of the analysis the DOJ disagreed with?

Barr has clearly indicated he does not agree with Mueller’s analysis of guidelines he claimed disallowed him from coming to a conclusion.
 

 

[bristolboy]

9 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I am not clear how the two statements contradict each other.

Why could the report not be acceptable to use for DOJ analysis, while having portions of the analysis the DOJ disagreed with?

Barr has clearly indicated he does not agree with Mueller’s analysis of guidelines he claimed disallowed him from coming to a conclusion.
 

 

[JHolmesJr]

Here's a link to help:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/william-barr-interview-full-transcript-cbs-this-morning-jan-crawford-exclusive-2019-05-31/

[mogandave]

" What was Kim Jong given? And what is he doing that is worse than he was doing prior to Trump taking office? "
 
Nothing.  That was the point of my post; Kim Jong Un has been playing the same game that North Korean leaders have been playing for decades.  He launches missiles and test nukes to get attention, demands a meeting with the US President to give himself international respectability, settles for lower level meetings where he extracts as many concessions as possible, then violates every commitment made.
 
Only this time he actually got the meeting with the US President and the international respectability, along with a cancellation of US/South Korean joint drills.  It was a wet dream for Kim.  All he had to do in return was make vague commitments and temporarily halt tests he could no longer afford anyway.  It was a major rookie move by Trump.
 
I don't support and respect John Bolton and Mike Pompeo, I just recognize that they are not as ignorant and easily duped regarding North Korea as Trump.
 
"What “highly classified foreign intelligence” did Trump give to Russia?"
 
Really?  Have you already forgotten, or do you not pay any attention to legitimate news?  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?noredirect&utm_term=.0ed53eef45ec
 
"There are good white supremacists."
 
Unless you source that statement, it is meaningless.  However since you asked for documented Trump lies, I'll give you this two year old list.  Once you're done with it, I'll provide some more recent lies.  Have fun:  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html
 
"When Trump claims millions of undocumented Democrats are voting when it’s really only thousands, I am not bothered."
 
Really?  The difference between millions and thousands doesn't bother you?  And what is your evidence that thousands of undocumented Democrats, or anyone else, are voting?
 
The rest of your post is just opinion, but I do find this claim interesting:
 
" He is under constant attack in the press and the left is relentlessly threatening him and his family. "
 
Can you provide evidence of this?  How does it compare to him calling the press the enemy of the people?
 
I'm curious, where do you get your news?

You claimed Trump gave Kim Jong everything he could have asked for.
I ask you what did Trump give Kim Jong?
Your response: Nothing. You go on to say Trump met with him and canceled the drills, then claim this is a wet dream for Kim Jong. I’m sorry, but I don’t see how. You imply this has increased international respect for Kim Jong. Again, I don’t see how.

I know you don’t report or respect them, I just thought it was funny.

If you don’t know, just say you don’t know. No need to post a link to a lengthy hit-piece in the Washington comPost.

Yeah, I don’t blame you for dodging the good white supremacists thing.

Yeah, I knew you would dodge the ten lies thing as well.

In this case no, it doesn’t bother me, in fact there is no way to know how many illegal did or are registered to vote. Earlier this year, Los Angeles county was ordered to remove 1.5 million registered names from their registration rolls.

L. A. County has a registration rate of 112% of it’s adult citizen population.

To be clear, these were flagged due to inactivity, but it does appear not much attention is paid to maintaining the accuracy of the voter rolls.

Unlike most here, I generally don’t pretend I’m presenting anything but my opinion.

You want me to provide evidence the press is attacking Trump, really?

I think it was inappropriate for Trump to call the press the enemy of the people, but I think much of the press is the enemy of the people. The press certainly looks at Trump as their enemy, and they did long before he called them the enemy.

I imagine I get my news the same place you do.

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll and inflammatory posts removed.  

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

You claimed Trump gave Kim Jong everything he could have asked for.
I ask you what did Trump give Kim Jong?
Your response: Nothing. You go on to say Trump met with him and canceled the drills, then claim this is a wet dream for Kim Jong. I’m sorry, but I don’t see how. You imply this has increased international respect for Kim Jong. Again, I don’t see how.

I know you don’t report or respect them, I just thought it was funny.

If you don’t know, just say you don’t know. No need to post a link to a lengthy hit-piece in the Washington comPost.

Yeah, I don’t blame you for dodging the good white supremacists thing.

Yeah, I knew you would dodge the ten lies thing as well.

In this case no, it doesn’t bother me, in fact there is no way to know how many illegal did or are registered to vote. Earlier this year, Los Angeles county was ordered to remove 1.5 million registered names from their registration rolls.

L. A. County has a registration rate of 112% of it’s adult citizen population.

To be clear, these were flagged due to inactivity, but it does appear not much attention is paid to maintaining the accuracy of the voter rolls.

Unlike most here, I generally don’t pretend I’m presenting anything but my opinion.

You want me to provide evidence the press is attacking Trump, really?

I think it was inappropriate for Trump to call the press the enemy of the people, but I think much of the press is the enemy of the people. The press certainly looks at Trump as their enemy, and they did long before he called them the enemy.

I imagine I get my news the same place you do.
 

I misread your initial comment, I thought you posted "What has Kim given".  However the rest of my response was clear.  Cancelling the joint drills was a huge gift, one North Korea had been pursuing for years.  If you weren't aware that Kim also craved the international respectability of a meeting with the President, which was denied his father, then that's your own lack of awareness of the situation.

 

" There has never been a face-to-face meeting, or even a phone call, between sitting leaders of the two nations because American presidents have been wary of offering the Kim regime the validation of a leaders-level summit on the global stage. "  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-korean-leader-kim-jong-un-has-invited-president-trump-to-a-meeting/2018/03/08/021cb070-2322-11e8-badd-7c9f29a55815_story.html?noredirect&utm_term=.7c43783c18a7

 

Note the plural "Presidents".  Obama, Bush, Clinton...none of them gave North Korea the gift of respect that Trump does.

 

Your white supremacist post was not referenced, not in context, and not clear on why you posted it.  TV rules prevent me from cutting and pasting ten Trump lies, but I gave you an easily readable link to dozens. 

 

"there is no way to know how many illegal did or are registered to vote"

 

Then why do you and Trump claim it is happening?  And why is it that claims of illegal voting always rest on the fact that voter rolls routinely contain the names of people who have moved to another voting area or died.  That is not illegal.  If there were massive illegal voting then we would expect some of these people would be caught.  Do you or Trump have any evidence of this?

 

 

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

^^More hair-splitting, anti-trump troll nonsense....accepting a legal framework does not mean committing to accept the ultimate shoddy legal analysis presented.

 

Rob Mueller is a purveyor of BS...Ive never seen anyone in law use such obfuscatory language

and play such deceitful tai chi with words.

 

His incompetent analysis is not the standard applied by the DOJ to rule on crimes...period.

 

So he can sod off...or present himself to congress....where he will be peeled like

an onion and exposed for his part in a charade designed to wreak maximum damage

to President Trump's re-election campaign. Bring it on Mueller!

Once again, insulting opinions of Mueller backed up with nothing.  Why not explain why your legal and investigative expertise is so much better than Mueller's?

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

just goes to show how ill informed you are (CNN boy)...or how you like to deliberately cherrypick claims.

dont be lazy...google is your friend.

Just goes to show Trump fans want to throw out accusations without doing the work to give them credibility.

[mogandave]

I misread your initial comment, I thought you posted "What has Kim given".  However the rest of my response was clear.  Cancelling the joint drills was a huge gift, one North Korea had been pursuing for years.  If you weren't aware that Kim also craved the international respectability of a meeting with the President, which was denied his father, then that's your own lack of awareness of the situation.
 
" There has never been a face-to-face meeting, or even a phone call, between sitting leaders of the two nations because American presidents have been wary of offering the Kim regime the validation of a leaders-level summit on the global stage. "  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-korean-leader-kim-jong-un-has-invited-president-trump-to-a-meeting/2018/03/08/021cb070-2322-11e8-badd-7c9f29a55815_story.html?noredirect&utm_term=.7c43783c18a7
 
Note the plural "Presidents".  Obama, Bush, Clinton...none of them gave North Korea the gift of respect that Trump does.
 
Your white supremacist post was not referenced, not in context, and not clear on why you posted it.  TV rules prevent me from cutting and pasting ten Trump lies, but I gave you an easily readable link to dozens. 
 
"there is no way to know how many illegal did or are registered to vote"
 
Then why do you and Trump claim it is happening?  And why is it that claims of illegal voting always rest on the fact that voter rolls routinely contain the names of people who have moved to another voting area or died.  That is not illegal.  If there were massive illegal voting then we would expect some of these people would be caught.  Do you or Trump have any evidence of this?
 
 

So not meeting with Kim through three administrations did nothing, and in fact things got worse, then Trump is held up as a fool for trying something different. We showed good faith and really lost nothing. And the ONLY reason I don’t agree with you is my lack of awareness. Sorry, but I don’t see it that way.

Yes, Trump is real respectful of “rocket man”. Too funny.

You really don’t know what I’m talking about when I say there are good white supremacists? Just google “there are good white supremacists.”

I notice you said you hadn’t heard Eric Holder’s “I’m still the President’s wing-man, so I’m there with my boy.” comment. Where do you get your news anyway? Google that as well.

Yeah, I saw the link, but I thought you were going to post the ten you thought were the worst, not regurgitate someone else’s list. I also asked you to pick one you thought may have had a greater negative impact on my family than “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.” Guess you could’ come up with one, I know I couldn’t.

That’s why I don’t get too caught up in the 20,000 lies Trump told like “It’s warm this afternoon”, and then CNBC states that not only was it cooler than average, it was in fact 8% cooler than the twenty year average for that day! Of course they don’t mention they had to use twenty years because when they did the first study with ten years it was actually warmer than average.

Then all the “unbiased” fact-checking websites check the ten year average and confirm that Trump was indeed lying and the lie gets added to the list.

For every site that provides data on illegals voting (including indictments) there are 100 sites all calling it a lie, and using “fact-checking” websites (like the one described above) to prove it. To be clear:
-Who supports voter ID?
-Who barred the the last census from asking citizenship status?
-Who promotes crap like motor-voter
-Who wants open boarders?

More KoolAid?

[candide]

39 minutes ago, mogandave said:

That’s why I don’t get too caught up in the 20,000 lies Trump told like “It’s warm this afternoon”, and then CNBC states that not only was it cooler than average, it was in fact 8% cooler than the twenty year average for that day! Of course they don’t mention they had to use twenty years because when they did the first study with ten years it was actually warmer than average

Blah blah!

Here's a link listing Trump's lies. Please tell us which ones are not lies and why. 

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

[bristolboy]

9 minutes ago, candide said:

Blah blah!

Here's a link listing Trump's lies. Please tell us which ones are not lies and why. 

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

“It’s warm this afternoon”, and then CNBC states that not only was it cooler than average, it was in fact 8% cooler than the twenty year average for that day!

This quote was taken from an even longer list. In fact it's an infinitely long list called "The Things Trump never said and was never accused of lying about"

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

So not meeting with Kim through three administrations did nothing, and in fact things got worse, then Trump is held up as a fool for trying something different. We showed good faith and really lost nothing. And the ONLY reason I don’t agree with you is my lack of awareness. Sorry, but I don’t see it that way.

Yes, Trump is real respectful of “rocket man”. Too funny.

You really don’t know what I’m talking about when I say there are good white supremacists? Just google “there are good white supremacists.”

I notice you said you hadn’t heard Eric Holder’s “I’m still the President’s wing-man, so I’m there with my boy.” comment. Where do you get your news anyway? Google that as well.

Yeah, I saw the link, but I thought you were going to post the ten you thought were the worst, not regurgitate someone else’s list. I also asked you to pick one you thought may have had a greater negative impact on my family than “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.” Guess you could’ come up with one, I know I couldn’t.

That’s why I don’t get too caught up in the 20,000 lies Trump told like “It’s warm this afternoon”, and then CNBC states that not only was it cooler than average, it was in fact 8% cooler than the twenty year average for that day! Of course they don’t mention they had to use twenty years because when they did the first study with ten years it was actually warmer than average.

Then all the “unbiased” fact-checking websites check the ten year average and confirm that Trump was indeed lying and the lie gets added to the list.

For every site that provides data on illegals voting (including indictments) there are 100 sites all calling it a lie, and using “fact-checking” websites (like the one described above) to prove it. To be clear:
-Who supports voter ID?
-Who barred the the last census from asking citizenship status?
-Who promotes crap like motor-voter
-Who wants open boarders?

More KoolAid?
 

You really know nothing about North Korea other than what Trump says, do you?

 

Check out Clinton's negotiations that halted North Korea's nuclear program, Bush's neglect that led to North Korea developing and testing nuclear bombs, and Obama's attempts to put the genie back in the bottle.  Trump's failure with North Korea was predictable for anyone who took the trouble to learn the issue.  Trump didn't take the trouble.

 

Yes, Trump pushed us to the edge of war with his "Little Rocket Man" comments, then decide he and Kim were in love, then decided the risk of war was something that happened before he took office.  How do you see this as good leadership?

 

People who post claims are the ones who are support the claims with credible references.  I assume that since you have no references for you "good white supremacists" comment you can't find any.

 

I noticed you haven't commented on my sourced explanation as to why healthcare in the US is grossly overpriced and under-performing. 

 

My offer was to provide ten lies by Trump for every lie told by the press about Trump.  You have yet to come up with a lie told by the press about Trump.  I don't know why you keep bringing up the one statement by Obama, but if you must have ten blatant Trump lies, here:

 

Classics:

 

" In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally."  Not only is this a lie, it was another attempt to undermine the legitimacy of elections and our democracy.  You may not think that is a big deal; I do.

 

" How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. "  There was no "tapp" on Trump's phone. 

 

"biggest electoral college win since Ronald Reagan."   No, it wasn't.  Not even close.

 

"We will always protect patients with preexisting conditions, very importantly,"  Trump has done nothing to protect patients with preeixisting conditions, and by undermining the Affordable Care Act is undermining their protection.

 

"So our country can take in $120 billion a year in tariffs, paid for mostly by China, by the way, not by us. "  BS.

 

"The baby is born.  The mother meets with the doctor. They take care of the baby, they wrap the baby beautifully. And then the doctor and the mother determine whether or not they will execute the baby."   Horrible, lying BS.

 

" Puerto Rico got 91 Billion Dollars for the hurricane, more money than has ever been gotten for a hurricane before, & all their local politicians do is complain & ask for more money. "  $40 billion has been allocated, only $11 billion has been spent.  Busenessman Trump seems to be clueless about money.

 

"The FBI said (former national security adviser Michael Flynn) wasn't lying."  The FBI never said that.

 

"58,000 non-citizens voted in Texas, with 95,000 non-citizens registered to vote."  Another attempt to undermine elections and democracy in the US, this time following the 2018 elections.  There is no evidence for these numbers.

 

"When during the campaign I would say ‘Mexico is going to pay for it,’ obviously, I never said this, and I never meant they're going to write out a check,"   During the campaign Trump said; "It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year,"

 

" Could somebody please explain to the Democrats (we need their votes) that our Country losses 250 Billion Dollars a year on illegal immigration, not including the terrible drug flow. Top Border Security, including a Wall, is $25 Billion. Pays for itself in two months. Get it done! "  In the Air Force I learned a useful acronym:  PIDOOMA--Pulled it Directly Out Of My A**.   The $250 billion number is one of many PIDOOMA numbers used by Trump, even right-wing anti-immigrant groups can't come up with a cost nearly that big.

 

"The Democrats want to invite caravan after caravan of illegal aliens into our country," Trump said Oct. 26 at a campaign rally in Charlotte, N.C. "And they want to sign them up for free health care, free welfare, free education, and for the right to vote."   Total fiction.

 

That's twelve.  I can provide many more, but you first need to provide some of the lies you said the press has published about Trump.

 

Regarding your closing comment:  When Republicans provide hard evidence, not speculation, that voter fraud is a greater problem than low voter turn-out, then we can look into making it harder to vote.  Until then let's focus on increasing voter turn-out.

 

Also, your "open border" claim is another Trump lie.  Did you adopt it as your own?

 

 

[bristolboy]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

You really know nothing about North Korea other than what Trump says, do you?

 

Check out Clinton's negotiations that halted North Korea's nuclear program, Bush's neglect that led to North Korea developing and testing nuclear bombs, and Obama's attempts to put the genie back in the bottle.  Trump's failure with North Korea was predictable for anyone who took the trouble to learn the issue.  Trump didn't take the trouble.

 

Yes, Trump pushed us to the edge of war with his "Little Rocket Man" comments, then decide he and Kim were in love, then decided the risk of war was something that happened before he took office.  How do you see this as good leadership?

 

People who post claims are the ones who are support the claims with credible references.  I assume that since you have no references for you "good white supremacists" comment you can't find any.

 

I noticed you haven't commented on my sourced explanation as to why healthcare in the US is grossly overpriced and under-performing. 

 

My offer was to provide ten lies by Trump for every lie told by the press about Trump.  You have yet to come up with a lie told by the press about Trump.  I don't know why you keep bringing up the one statement by Obama, but if you must have ten blatant Trump lies, here:

 

Classics:

 

" In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally."  Not only is this a lie, it was another attempt to undermine the legitimacy of elections and our democracy.  You may not think that is a big deal; I do.

 

" How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. "  There was no "tapp" on Trump's phone. 

 

"biggest electoral college win since Ronald Reagan."   No, it wasn't.  Not even close.

 

"We will always protect patients with preexisting conditions, very importantly,"  Trump has done nothing to protect patients with preeixisting conditions, and by undermining the Affordable Care Act is undermining their protection.

 

"So our country can take in $120 billion a year in tariffs, paid for mostly by China, by the way, not by us. "  BS.

 

"The baby is born.  The mother meets with the doctor. They take care of the baby, they wrap the baby beautifully. And then the doctor and the mother determine whether or not they will execute the baby."   Horrible, lying BS.

 

" Puerto Rico got 91 Billion Dollars for the hurricane, more money than has ever been gotten for a hurricane before, & all their local politicians do is complain & ask for more money. "  $40 billion has been allocated, only $11 billion has been spent.  Busenessman Trump seems to be clueless about money.

 

"The FBI said (former national security adviser Michael Flynn) wasn't lying."  The FBI never said that.

 

"58,000 non-citizens voted in Texas, with 95,000 non-citizens registered to vote."  Another attempt to undermine elections and democracy in the US, this time following the 2018 elections.  There is no evidence for these numbers.

 

"When during the campaign I would say ‘Mexico is going to pay for it,’ obviously, I never said this, and I never meant they're going to write out a check,"   During the campaign Trump said; "It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year,"

 

" Could somebody please explain to the Democrats (we need their votes) that our Country losses 250 Billion Dollars a year on illegal immigration, not including the terrible drug flow. Top Border Security, including a Wall, is $25 Billion. Pays for itself in two months. Get it done! "  In the Air Force I learned a useful acronym:  PIDOOMA--Pulled it Directly Out Of My A**.   The $250 billion number is one of many PIDOOMA numbers used by Trump, even right-wing anti-immigrant groups can't come up with a cost nearly that big.

 

"The Democrats want to invite caravan after caravan of illegal aliens into our country," Trump said Oct. 26 at a campaign rally in Charlotte, N.C. "And they want to sign them up for free health care, free welfare, free education, and for the right to vote."   Total fiction.

 

That's twelve.  I can provide many more, but you first need to provide some of the lies you said the press has published about Trump.

 

Regarding your closing comment:  When Republicans provide hard evidence, not speculation, that voter fraud is a greater problem than low voter turn-out, then we can look into making it harder to vote.  Until then let's focus on increasing voter turn-out.

 

Also, your "open border" claim is another Trump lie.  Did you adopt it as your own?

 

 

But Trump supporters don't consider these to be lies. They're something else. They're tools in the service of something even higher, purer and nobler than the truth. They are the embodiments of......

TRUTHINESS

Truthiness is the belief or assertion that a particular statement is true based on the intuition or perceptions of some individual or individuals, without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts.^[1][2] Truthiness can range from ignorant assertions of falsehoods to deliberate duplicity or propaganda intended to sway opinions.^[3][4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness

 

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But Trump supporters don't consider these to be lies. They're something else. They're tools in the service of something even higher, purer and nobler than the truth. They are the embodiments of......

TRUTHINESS

Truthiness is the belief or assertion that a particular statement is true based on the intuition or perceptions of some individual or individuals, without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts.^[1][2] Truthiness can range from ignorant assertions of falsehoods to deliberate duplicity or propaganda intended to sway opinions.^[3][4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness

 

But as Stephen Colbert explained, truthiness has been replaced by Trumpiness.  While truthiness comes from the gut, Trumpiness comes from much lower in the digestive tract.  Which explains Trumps PIDOOMA numbers.

[Scott]

Off-topic, baiting post and replies removed.