Mueller says he could not charge Trump as Congress weighs impeachment

[mogandave]

The difference being that the anti-Trump crowd give legitimate reasons why Trump is dangerously incompetent, unqualified, unstable and bad for the country.  JHolmesJr seems incapable of anything beyond name calling.

Yes, the old yeah, but we’re right argument.

What you perceive is the difference. I don’t see how Trump is “dangerously incompetent”, and no matter how many times he is called a nazi or a fascist or a racist, or a misogynist or a homophobe or an anti-Semite or any number of other things, but unless it looks to me like he’s doing something “dangerously incompetent” I don’t want to see him run out of office.

You will claim that I am a fool or that I am blinded by my love for Trump or whatever, but he has been attacked constantly and lied about in the press since he beat Hillary. It’s not really Trump, it would have been the same had anyone beat her, it’s just easier with Trump.

If Trump is “dangerously incompetent”, why did your team not move to impeach him two years ago or a year ago? All they care about is votes. Nancy knows this is all BS.

If Barr committed perjury, why is your team not bringing charges?

Unfortunately for the dems/left/press (redundant) a lot of people have lost faith in the press and see it for what it has become, and I don’t think that number is shrinking. If that is Trump’s fault, as far as I’m concerned it is a great accomplishment and another reason to support him.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

more tap dancing by anti trump troll. he'll be gone when trump wins in 2020.

 

Aside: looking forward to getting that slimeball Mueller in front of congress he's terrible even with a prepared statement....will be fun to see him getting grilled and keep stonewalling. It won't just be the dems in  there....the reps will rip him apart.

He's running scared.

From someone who repeatedly resorts to calling those who oppose Trump ‘haters’, you are putting out a remarkable number of slurs and hate filled comments against Mueller.

 

You are attacking the man, it is obvious you are unable to address the work he has done or the report of that work.

 

So you troll personal attacks on a man who has lived his life for public service.

 

Let is all see and measure your arguments for what they are, trolling personal attacks.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, heybruce said:

Enough of the "I hate Mueller" stuff.  We get it, you can't refute the message so you are attacking the messenger.  We figured that out long ago, you can stop repeating yourself.

Can that apply to all the Trump haters as well please?

We all know that some on here loath Trump, but there's no need to fill pages and pages with hateful rantings about how evil Trump is and bring up his entire history to make rather pointless attacks on him because of some builder Trump scammed years before he was even thinking of being president. We got it long ago ( about 2 years ago to be more precise ).

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So you troll personal attacks on a man who has lived his life for public service.

Pity then, that he colluded in this shameful witch hunt against the president. Rather spoiled his wonderful record, IMO.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Pity then, that he colluded in this shameful witch hunt against the president. Rather spoiled his wonderful record, IMO.

Another example of an unfounded slur.

 

Illiberals have run out of means to deny truth and are now attacking the truth bringers.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

Yes, the old yeah, but we’re right argument.

What you perceive is the difference. I don’t see how Trump is “dangerously incompetent”, and no matter how many times he is called a nazi or a fascist or a racist, or a misogynist or a homophobe or an anti-Semite or any number of other things, but unless it looks to me like he’s doing something “dangerously incompetent” I don’t want to see him run out of office.

You will claim that I am a fool or that I am blinded by my love for Trump or whatever, but he has been attacked constantly and lied about in the press since he beat Hillary. It’s not really Trump, it would have been the same had anyone beat her, it’s just easier with Trump.

If Trump is “dangerously incompetent”, why did your team not move to impeach him two years ago or a year ago? All they care about is votes. Nancy knows this is all BS.

If Barr committed perjury, why is your team not bringing charges?

Unfortunately for the dems/left/press (redundant) a lot of people have lost faith in the press and see it for what it has become, and I don’t think that number is shrinking. If that is Trump’s fault, as far as I’m concerned it is a great accomplishment and another reason to support him.


 

 

Barr has more pressing concerns than facing charges of perjury.

 

He’s just placed himself in the crosshairs of Judge Sullivan for contempt of court.

[brycspain]

You can't say you're not not guilty of a crime.  You're innocent until proven guilty.  The DOJ does not refer people to congress because congress can't put anybody in jail.  Only the DOJ can indict and Mueller knows this.  That is why he did his drive-by shooting routine the other day and of course, we are being told he can't be cross-examined.  What a waste of 30 Million dollars.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 7:03 AM, helpisgood said:

 

Nice try, Donald.  The Mueller Report was not, regarding Trump's actions, a "case" but a report (thus, called the Mueller Report and not US v. Trump).  The Mueller Report conclusions regarding Trump's actions are not subject to the same rules of a burden of proof as it would if it was a criminal case.  A clever, but misleading, conflation for his base.

 

Besides, as I quote from the OP, Mueller specified that the Justice Department's memo opining that a sitting president cannot be criminally indicted "prevented him from bringing charges." 

 

 

Besides, it's got to be a little unsettling for the Chief Executive, viz., Pres. Trump, when an investigator within his own branch of government (thus, essentially one of his own employees) on a high-profile investigation gives a public statement specifying that the employee cannot exonerate his top boss of acts that invite impeachment of said boss, viz., the president (See, e.g., Watergate and the obstruction of justice article of impeachment). 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, brycspain said:

You can't say you're not not guilty of a crime.  You're innocent until proven guilty.  The DOJ does not refer people to congress because congress can't put anybody in jail.  Only the DOJ can indict and Mueller knows this.  That is why he did his drive-by shooting routine the other day and of course, we are being told he can't be cross-examined.  What a waste of 30 Million dollars.

 

 

This ‘Innocent until proven guilty’.

 

We are all innocent until we commit a crime.

 

The only time we are ‘innocent until

proven guilty is when we are under criminal investigation and/or before a court of law’. 

 

Large sections of the Mueller report are still redacted, Barr color coded these as relating to ‘on going investigations’.

 

The Mueller report includes 14 on going indictments (12 of which are, despite Barr’s signed statement to the contrary, entirely new).

 

There is at least one on going Grand Jury relating to Mueller’s investigation, the only purpose of a Grand Jury is to determine if an Indictment is warranted (refer once again to Barr’s signed statement regarding no now indictments).

 

Hold on to that ‘Innocent until proven guilty’, Mueller’s investigation isn’t done yet, not by a long way.

 

 

 

[mogandave]

Barr has more pressing concerns than facing charges of perjury.
 
He’s just placed himself in the crosshairs of Judge Sullivan for contempt of court.

Contempt is a stronger charge than perjury?

Anyway, how dare you attack a man that has spent his life as a public servant!

Incidentally, hasn’t most everyone involved spent their life on the public teat?

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Contempt is a stronger charge than perjury?

Anyway, how dare you attack a man that has spent his life as a public servant!

Incidentally, hasn’t most everyone involved spent their life on the public teat?


 

 

Contempt of court has far more rapidly realized consequences than perjury before Congress (hence more pressing).

 

Tell me who have I attacked?

 

Pointing our factual events is not an attack, though I understand you’d rather ignore the factual ents.

[mogandave]

Contempt of court has far more rapidly realized consequences than perjury before Congress (hence more pressing).
 
Tell me who have I attacked?
 
Pointing our factual events is not an attack, though I understand you’d rather ignore the factual ents.

Yes, well in that sense having to take a leak is more pressing.

Barr clearly wants it to go to court, I wonder why that is.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

Yes, well in that sense having to take a leak is more pressing.

Barr clearly wants it to go to court, I wonder why that is.

 

Barr is already before the court.

 

Watch and learn.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Yes, the old yeah, but we’re right argument.

What you perceive is the difference. I don’t see how Trump is “dangerously incompetent”, and no matter how many times he is called a nazi or a fascist or a racist, or a misogynist or a homophobe or an anti-Semite or any number of other things, but unless it looks to me like he’s doing something “dangerously incompetent” I don’t want to see him run out of office.

You will claim that I am a fool or that I am blinded by my love for Trump or whatever, but he has been attacked constantly and lied about in the press since he beat Hillary. It’s not really Trump, it would have been the same had anyone beat her, it’s just easier with Trump.

If Trump is “dangerously incompetent”, why did your team not move to impeach him two years ago or a year ago? All they care about is votes. Nancy knows this is all BS.

If Barr committed perjury, why is your team not bringing charges?

Unfortunately for the dems/left/press (redundant) a lot of people have lost faith in the press and see it for what it has become, and I don’t think that number is shrinking. If that is Trump’s fault, as far as I’m concerned it is a great accomplishment and another reason to support him.

Trump had no government or military experience when he entered office.  He campaigned without knowing what the nuclear triad is.  He attempted to discuss nuclear treaties with Putin without knowing the meanings of the terms he was using.  He was played for a fool by Kim Jong Un, giving Kim everything he could have asked for and getting nothing but trivial gestures in return.  This would have happened a second time if not for John Bolton and Mike Pompeo.  He is constantly undercutting his own cabinet officials and advisers.  His knowledge of economics is laughable--tariffs are taxes on US companies and consumers, they are not paid for by the foreign governments.  The great deal maker has so far shown himself to be a great deal breaker.  The list of his demonstrations of incompetence goes on and on.

 

He has also revealed highly classified foreign intelligence to Russia, a crime for which anyone else would have gone to prison.

 

Why don't you document the number of verifiable lies told by the press about Trump?  I'll match them ten for one with verifiable lies told by Trump.

 

Convicting Trump of impeachment charges is not an option while Mitch McConnell is putting party and power ahead of country.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Can that apply to all the Trump haters as well please?

We all know that some on here loath Trump, but there's no need to fill pages and pages with hateful rantings about how evil Trump is and bring up his entire history to make rather pointless attacks on him because of some builder Trump scammed years before he was even thinking of being president. We got it long ago ( about 2 years ago to be more precise ).

See my above post about the reasons Trump haters hate Trump.  It's because we are terrified of what he is doing to the US.

[brycspain]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This ‘Innocent until proven guilty’.

 

We are all innocent until we commit a crime.

 

The only time we are ‘innocent until

proven guilty is when we are under criminal investigation and/or before a court of law’. 

 

Large sections of the Mueller report are still redacted, Barr color coded these as relating to ‘on going investigations’.

 

The Mueller report includes 14 on going indictments (12 of which are, despite Barr’s signed statement to the contrary, entirely new).

 

There is at least one on going Grand Jury relating to Mueller’s investigation, the only purpose of a Grand Jury is to determine if an Indictment is warranted (refer once again to Barr’s signed statement regarding no now indictments).

 

Hold on to that ‘Innocent until proven guilty’, Mueller’s investigation isn’t done yet, not by a long way.

 

 

 

Wishful thinking bro.  That is why Dems won't impeach because it is a bad play.  If they were really concerned about high crimes and misdemeanors they would have impeached him already.  You want to talk about truth to power?  Give me a break.

[brycspain]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

See my above post about the reasons Trump haters hate Trump.  It's because we are terrified of what he is doing to the US.

You are terrified that are you arent going to get your way.  Besides, you're sitting over here in Asia aren't you?  

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, brycspain said:

You are terrified that are you arent going to get your way.  Besides, you're sitting over here in Asia aren't you?  

No, actually I think it's a race to see if Trump gets impeached before the election, or loses the election then gets prosecuted.  It might be better for Trump to resign under the condition that Pence pardon him of all offenses.

 

What does my location have to do with this?

[brycspain]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

No, actually I think it's a race to see if Trump gets impeached before the election, or loses the election then gets prosecuted.  It might be better for Trump to resign under the condition that Pence pardon him of all offenses.

 

What does my location have to do with this?

Let me answer a question with a question....I know that is bad but I need figure out what your motives are.  Why are you worried what Trump is going to do in America when you are sitting over here in Asia?  It's an honest question.   My opinion is you are a hard leftist who has nothing but hate and vitriol for Trump because he whipped Hillary in a fair election and you can't handle it.  That is the issue here.

[Silurian]

10 minutes ago, brycspain said:

My opinion is you are a hard leftist who has nothing but hate and vitriol for Trump because he whipped Hillary in a fair election and you can't handle it.  That is the issue here.

 

Only the reality TV con man supporters keep bring up the 2016 election. Get over it already. It is an old tired argument and has nothing to do with both the past and ongoing criminal activities of the current WH administration. It is just pure misdirection.

 

[heybruce]

10 minutes ago, brycspain said:

Let me answer a question with a question....I know that is bad but I need figure out what your motives are.  Why are you worried what Trump is going to do in America when you are sitting over here in Asia?  It's an honest question.   My opinion is you are a hard leftist who has nothing but hate and vitriol for Trump because he whipped Hillary in a fair election and you can't handle it.  That is the issue here.

I'm a US citizen and a retired USAF officer wherever I am.  Besides, Trump isn't just screwing up the US, he is screwing up the world, and handing SE Asia to China on a silver patter.

 

How fair the election was is the core issue here, along with how fair future elections will be.

[bristolboy]

Fox News surprising poll results: Mueller is more trusted than Trump and Barr

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-fox-new-poll-trump-mueller-20190518-flmgbtawonbzvnebgp4vz4l254-story.html

[mogandave]

Trump had no government or military experience when he entered office.  He campaigned without knowing what the nuclear triad is.  He attempted to discuss nuclear treaties with Putin without knowing the meanings of the terms he was using.  He was played for a fool by Kim Jong Un, giving Kim everything he could have asked for and getting nothing but trivial gestures in return.  This would have happened a second time if not for John Bolton and Mike Pompeo.  He is constantly undercutting his own cabinet officials and advisers.  His knowledge of economics is laughable--tariffs are taxes on US companies and consumers, they are not paid for by the foreign governments.  The great deal maker has so far shown himself to be a great deal breaker.  The list of his demonstrations of incompetence goes on and on.
 
He has also revealed highly classified foreign intelligence to Russia, a crime for which anyone else would have gone to prison.
 
Why don't you document the number of verifiable lies told by the press about Trump?  I'll match them ten for one with verifiable lies told by Trump.
 
Convicting Trump of impeachment charges is not an option while Mitch McConnell is putting party and power ahead of country.

What was Kim Jong given? And what is he doing that is worse than he was doing prior to Trump taking office?

Yes, Trump should have brought a new reset (overcharge?) button to the talks. I am encouraged you support and respect John Bolton and Mike Pompeo, id gives us some common ground.

What “highly classified foreign intelligence” did Trump give to Russia?

There are good white supremacists. Now give me the ten Trump lies, at least one of which has had a greater negative effect on my life than “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.”.

When Trump claims millions of undocumented Democrats are voting when it’s really only thousands, I am not bothered.

If the evidence supported a conviction, Nancy would bring it. She knows it does not. If I saw evidence of Trump truly obstructing justice to avoid being prosecuted for a crime he had committed (something more serious than tearing the label off a mattress) I would stop supporting him immediately as would millions of other people.

I understand you believe that bar was met and that he became a criminal the moment he asked someone to go easy on Flynn, or when he fired Comey, or when he discussed firing Mueller or when he asked someone to not mention he discussed firing Mueller, but I don’t see it that way.

He is under constant attack in the press and the left is relentlessly threatening him and his family.

I understand there does not have to be an underlying crime to be changed with obstruction of justice, but I don’t think the bar has been met in this case, you do, whatever.

I hope you guys impeach him and every scrap of information comes out. I hope everyone involved is forced to testify in open hearings and every moment of it is televised around the world. I want the transcripts published in their entirety every day and made available to download free. Let’s absolutely get to bottom of it before the next election.

Is regurgitating a sound sound-bite about Mitch McConnell putting “party and power ahead of country” supposed to be convincing? Do we not hear that from virtually every media outlet every time anyone does anything that does not promote the left wing agenda?

I don’t want America fundamentally transformed.

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I don’t want America fundamentally transformed.
 

 

Then start defending the Constitutional separation of powers, opposing politicization of the DoJ, opposing demonization of minorities, attempts to undermine press freedoms and the use of public office for private gain.

[mogandave]

Then start defending the Constitutional separation of powers, opposing politicization of the DoJ, opposing demonization of minorities, attempts to undermine press freedoms and the use of public office for private gain.

I do now, and have for about the last thirty years:

Defended Constitutional separation of powers.

Opposed the politicization of the DOJ

Opposed the demonization of minorities

Supported a free press

Opposed the use of public office for personal gain.

Before that, I really wasn’t paying attention.

I do find it interesting that it seems none of those things were of any concern to many people here prior to the Trump administration. Everything was peachy-dandy prior to that.

That is not to say that anything Trump is doing goes against my position on any of those topics, and I would happily discuss any one of those topics in detail in a thread started for that purpose.

I guess this is where I’m supposed ask how Trump is doing everything for personal gain, or politicizing the DOJ, or how he’s demonizing minorities, and then *you regurgitate something from CNN of VOX and link to some hideously biased article, or tell me to “read the report” when you’re unwilling (or more likely unable) to answer the simplest questions or provide an actual example.

But it seems we do that over and over, me asking the same questions and *you regurgitating the same non-answers.

*To be clear, when I say “you”, I don’t mean you personally, I am using it as a generalization of most of the people I enter into discussions with here. It is not personal.

[mogandave]

Then start defending the Constitutional separation of powers, opposing politicization of the DoJ, opposing demonization of minorities, attempts to undermine press freedoms and the use of public office for private gain.

From this response, i think it safe to assume people that do want to fundamental transform America:
-Do not support separation of powers
-Support the politicization of the DOJ
-Support the demonization of minorities
-Support undermining press freedoms
-Condone the use of public office for personal gain.

I agree

[Chomper Higgot]

35 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I do now, and have for about the last thirty years:

Defended Constitutional separation of powers.

Opposed the politicization of the DOJ

Opposed the demonization of minorities

Supported a free press

Opposed the use of public office for personal gain.

Before that, I really wasn’t paying attention.

I do find it interesting that it seems none of those things were of any concern to many people here prior to the Trump administration. Everything was peachy-dandy prior to that.

That is not to say that anything Trump is doing goes against my position on any of those topics, and I would happily discuss any one of those topics in detail in a thread started for that purpose.

I guess this is where I’m supposed ask how Trump is doing everything for personal gain, or politicizing the DOJ, or how he’s demonizing minorities, and then *you regurgitate something from CNN of VOX and link to some hideously biased article, or tell me to “read the report” when you’re unwilling (or more likely unable) to answer the simplest questions or provide an actual example.

But it seems we do that over and over, me asking the same questions and *you regurgitating the same non-answers.

*To be clear, when I say “you”, I don’t mean you personally, I am using it as a generalization of most of the people I enter into discussions with here. It is not personal.
 

 

Oh this is the bit where you dream up an exchange of opinion between yourself and those who disagree with you, you insert your dreamed up responses for them and then magically come out on top of the fictitious exchange.  

[Chomper Higgot]

30 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

From this response, i think it safe to assume people that do want to fundamental transform America:
-Do not support separation of powers
-Support the politicization of the DOJ
-Support the demonization of minorities
-Support undermining press freedoms
-Condone the use of public office for personal gain.

I agree

 

I'll accept that point when I see you raising concerns over, by example Barr acting as AG to protect the President, or Barr as AG giving legal advice to the President to assist the President get out of his own personal legal problems.

 

 

[mogandave]

I'll accept that point when I see you raising concerns over, by example Barr acting as AG to protect the President, or Barr as AG giving legal advice to the President to assist the President get out of his own personal legal problems.
 
 

It was your point, I was just agreeing with you. Please try to follow along.

[brycspain]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

I'm a US citizen and a retired USAF officer wherever I am.  Besides, Trump isn't just screwing up the US, he is screwing up the world, and handing SE Asia to China on a silver patter.

 

How fair the election was is the core issue here, along with how fair future elections will be.

What has Trump screwed up on the world's stage?  Waiting for specifics?

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, brycspain said:

More liberal projection.  Keep watching that CNN bro.  Conservatives pounce right?

Pointless, incoherent insults.