On 6/7/2019 at 1:40 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I do believe that but for Churchill, Britain would have been occupied/ surrendered/ whatever. The German military was the best in the world, and only lost because Hitler was insane and decided to invade Russia before conquering Britain. Without Britain, the US would never have been able to invade Europe.

Beyond the troops, Britain and our world was lucky to have Churchill, R J Mitchell, Tommy Flowers and Alan Turing to help win the war for us.

Alan Turing was well rewarded by the Brits for his efforts cracking the German codes.  After the war they prosecuted him for indecent behavior for being a homosexual and forced him to be injected with female hormones as a form of therapy.  He subsequently committed suicide.  

On 6/6/2019 at 2:00 PM, possum1931 said:

I see Old Charlie still has all these medals.

 

 He was on the front line  @  the Palace balcony,  Lets not forget..

  

   Alan Turing , RIP.

  

 

 

Edited June 10, 20197 yr by elliss

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Russia won the war, despite American movie makers propaganda, and had Britain surrendered there would have been no convoys to Russia, and the full might of the German war machine- the best in the world- against Stalin's armies which were demoralised by years of officer purges.

Even so, the best weapon the allies had against Germany was Hitler, who was probably insane. Even at the end, the Battle of the Bulge could have triumphed, which says much about the quality of the German military.

Russia faced the full might of the German War Machine in 1941. They won, alone. Germany did not have the resources to sustain a war of more than a few months against Russia. Everything was bet on Barbarossa affecting a general collapse of the Soviet government. It didn't happen. Not even close. WWII was effectively won by the Russians by Dec. 2 1941. The rest was just playing out the inevitable German defeat. The Western Front was nothing but a sideshow. You mention the Battle of the Bulge. What of it? Even if Germany had won the battle, what do they gain? How does a victory in a battle on the other side of the continent stop the Soviet advance in the East?  
 

Churchill was one of the worst leaders the UK ever had (as the British themselves realized in the end when they threw him out of office as "reward" for his actions). The UK gained nothing from the war but death, destruction, and debt. They could have sat the entire thing out just like Switzerland and would have profited immensely. Churchill simply lacked imagination and strategic forethought. He was truly nothing but an overgrown boy with a teenage mentality who couldn't pass up the idea of participating in a "great war". Probably would have been a fun guy to go drinking with, but not the type of person you want running your country.  

1 hour ago, usviphotography said:

Russia faced the full might of the German War Machine in 1941. They won, alone. Germany did not have the resources to sustain a war of more than a few months against Russia. Everything was bet on Barbarossa affecting a general collapse of the Soviet government. It didn't happen. Not even close. WWII was effectively won by the Russians by Dec. 2 1941. The rest was just playing out the inevitable German defeat. The Western Front was nothing but a sideshow. You mention the Battle of the Bulge. What of it? Even if Germany had won the battle, what do they gain? How does a victory in a battle on the other side of the continent stop the Soviet advance in the East?  
 

Churchill was one of the worst leaders the UK ever had (as the British themselves realized in the end when they threw him out of office as "reward" for his actions). The UK gained nothing from the war but death, destruction, and debt. They could have sat the entire thing out just like Switzerland and would have profited immensely. Churchill simply lacked imagination and strategic forethought. He was truly nothing but an overgrown boy with a teenage mentality who couldn't pass up the idea of participating in a "great war". Probably would have been a fun guy to go drinking with, but not the type of person you want running your country.  

Know nothing

48 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Know nothing

Indeed,

It is actually an alternative view propagated (amongst others) by American conservative journalist and political commentator,Patrick Buchanan.

Patrick J.Buchanan:'Churchill,Hitler and the Unnecessary War'

No wonder that Franklin D.Roosevelt had such a hard time dragging the American right out of "Isolationism"

Edited June 10, 20197 yr by Odysseus123

3 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Indeed,

It is actually an alternative view propagated (amongst others) by American conservative journalist and political commentator,Patrick Buchanan.

Forgotten the guy - what a wonderful person, not

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan#Charges_of_antisemitism_and_Holocaust_denial

12 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

Hitler had plans To invade Britain,

more than plans. The only reason they didn't invade was because Goering stopped attacking British airfields and started bombing cities ( that could have been Hitler though ) and lost the Battle of Britain because of it. Without air superiority, the invasion would have failed.

9 hours ago, griffon2011 said:

Alan Turing was well rewarded by the Brits for his efforts cracking the German codes.  After the war they prosecuted him for indecent behavior for being a homosexual and forced him to be injected with female hormones as a form of therapy.  He subsequently committed suicide.  

Yes. British officialdom was particularly loathsome for many things, and Turing comes high on the list. Vile beasts.

Had Britain "sat out" the war, one of two things would have happened.

 

Either, unhindered, the Germans would have fast tracked their nuclear and rocket technology, and would have launched the world's first atomic bomb on a Russian target, probably Moscow, before holding the world to ransom.

 

Or, Hitler would have tried to invade Russia prior to that and been defeated, with the whole of mainland Europe in the Russian sphere, and it would have been the Soviets who had the atomic and rocket technology.

 

In either case, the European Jewish population would have been even more decimated than it was, if not totally wiped out.

 

Although it cost Britain a huge price, they did the right thing by the world.  And, argue all you want about who was the deciding force in WW2, but the single biggest factor in the result was Hitler himself.  A fact that was well known to his own generals, many of whom would have gotten rid of him if they could.  Had any of the allied or German plots to assassinate him succeeded then, depending on the timing, Germany could very well have won the war.

5 hours ago, usviphotography said:

Russia faced the full might of the German War Machine in 1941. They won, alone. Germany did not have the resources to sustain a war of more than a few months against Russia.

Erm, weren't they also involved in North Africa, France and along the seaboard to defend against a British attack, never mind the  resources used to defend against the British bombing campaign?

Alone? What about the convoys to Russia?

A few months? They weren't pushed out till 1944, and the Battle of Kursk wasn't peanuts in 1943.

9 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Had any of the allied or German plots to assassinate him succeeded then, depending on the timing, Germany could very well have won the war.

Indeed. It's something that most prefer not to remember.

Due to the propaganda, not many realise that Germany was the most powerful military force in the world, had the best machines, the best soldiers and but for Hitler and perhaps Goering would have won.

The ultimate disaster for Germany was the decision to declare war on America post the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, as otherwise America might never have entered the European war. Only Hitler could have ordered that.

On 6/7/2019 at 1:20 PM, possum1931 said:

I have no time for the British Royal Family, sorry Bill.

I doubt they have much time for you, either?

10 hours ago, griffon2011 said:

Alan Turing was well rewarded by the Brits for his efforts cracking the German codes.  After the war they prosecuted him for indecent behavior for being a homosexual and forced him to be injected with female hormones as a form of therapy.  He subsequently committed suicide.  

You're forgetting something though eh?

39 minutes ago, evadgib said:

You're forgetting something though eh?

Enlighten me.

An inflammatory post and reply removed

this  shines  a  light  on where  the  real  fight was  going  on......Russia in  the  Euro  Arena https://www.nationalww2museum.org/students-teachers/student-resources/research-starters/research-starters-worldwide-deaths-world-war

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

I doubt they have much time for you, either?

What a nonsensical comment, do I not have the right of opinion without having to read trash like this?

About as nonsensical as your, which didn't add anything to the thread. Other than your opinion which is worth the paper it is printed on.

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

You're forgetting something though eh?

Bit late for Turing though.

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Bit late for Turing though.

Agreed, I was merely neutering an unnecessary 'Brit-bash' by adding the omitted postscript.

On 6/6/2019 at 10:49 PM, bannork said:

Let us, born post 1945, of British race or European, who have never had to risk our lives in fighting a war, remember those who lost everything whilst still in their youth, defending our land from tyranny.

 

 

Before we get too emotional remember that nobody risked their lives because it was always someone else that was going to be killed. If anybody thought that they would really be killed nobody would have gone, except if, like most, you were conscripted and had no choice so nobody was going as a sacrificial lamb for the sake of democracy so that they would be free to continue with their exciting factory jobs with poor pay. I can remember my father who served in the navy in WW2 throwing his conscription papers for the Korean war on the coal fire with the words "they can get stuffed".

10 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Before we get too emotional remember that nobody risked their lives because it was always someone else that was going to be killed. If anybody thought that they would really be killed nobody would have gone, except if, like most, you were conscripted and had no choice so nobody was going as a sacrificial lamb for the sake of democracy so that they would be free to continue with their exciting factory jobs with poor pay. I can remember my father who served in the navy in WW2 throwing his conscription papers for the Korean war on the coal fire with the words "they can get stuffed".

The fact is though many lost their lives in a war where defeat could have seen us under Nazi rule, perhaps to this day. And for that we should be eternally grateful to those who fell 

Just now, bannork said:

The fact is though many lost their lives in a war where defeat could have seen us under Nazi rule, perhaps to this day. And for that we should be eternally grateful to those who fell 

They did indeed and many civilians also lost their lives. Grateful is the wrong word though, sorry that it had to happen would be better. If I ask you to risk your life for me and you do it willingly I am grateful, If I ask you and have to threaten you with vilification and imprisonment if you don't then I would be sorry and full of guilt if you died which is why countries build monuments to the fallen (slaughtered would be a better word) It is always the young who have to hold their heads under the scaffold because those over thirty aren't that stupid. It is the hypocrisy that gets to me. I sat in an outdoor cafe and read a plaque on the side of a church wall, "1914-18 lest we forget our fallen in the great war, that it may never happen again"  directly underneath it was another plaque, "1939-45 in memory of our fallen who gave their lives for freedom" Yeah right, I'm sure that Bob the baker couldn't wait to kill or get killed by Fritz the baker in the name of freedom.

Post in breach of forum rule 8 has been removed

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 7:32 PM, bannork said:

The fact is though many lost their lives in a war where defeat could have seen us under Nazi rule, perhaps to this day. And for that we should be eternally grateful to those who fell 

I hope they don't forget to commemorate those that fell fighting the Japanese, or died in their work camps when that anniversary comes along.

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I hope they don't forget to commemorate those that fell fighting the Japanese, or died in their work camps when that anniversary comes along.

You can still pay your respects at Kanchanaburi. Two services in the last year. Remembrance and ANZAC Day. Or visit the War Cemetery when you like.

24 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You can still pay your respects at Kanchanaburi. Two services in the last year. Remembrance and ANZAC Day. Or visit the War Cemetery when you like.

Not the same as a major commemoration like this one. The Pacific war was as real as the European one.

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not the same as a major commemoration like this one. The Pacific war was as real as the European one.

Sorry I spoke.