Why do they keep doing it ??

[atyclb]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:35 PM, thequietman said:

I know, it was naive of me, but why won't they accept what I am telling them? Its like a roundabout, they ask me to come in on days off, evenings and weekends, I explain I have private lessons, they get angry, rinse then repeat. There doesn't seem to be any learning curve!

 

And then when I quit, they will seem confused and ask me why! 

 

 

Arrrrggggg !

 

i have a thai friend that graduated abac then did a real masters in england. recently she had to choose between a foreign run company or a local run one. she chose the foreign one despite salary being a bit less

[atyclb]

2 hours ago, bkkgriz said:

If it makes you feel any better I run into this stuff all the time at my high school in Japan. I guess the difference is I tell them I have classes outside work booked and they work with me. Most Thai schools are garbage and only care about face and the bottom line. If you really care about teaching, I recommend a different country. 

 

i have worked with and known many japanese people. night and day compared with the vast majority of thai's. integrity, honor, efficiency, reliability, respect, hard work, excellent education are the rule not the exception.

[atyclb]

On 6/15/2019 at 9:36 AM, marcusarelus said:

On 6/15/2019 at 9:27 AM, thequietman said:

I take your point but we are cerainly not equal. The thai teachers have job security, I don't. They get a pension, I don't. They get yearly salary increases, I don't. We are certainly not the same. Apply the same working conditions to me and maybe I will take this nonsense.

You have better working conditions.  You are talking about benefits.  Two different things.  I believe on a college level you may qualify for more benefits depending on your employer.  Since you are teaching on a college level I'll assume you have at least a masters in your area of expertise and normally a Phd.  Perhaps someone else can comment on a Western college professor and what benefits they can expect with a MA or Phd.   

 

long time ago i did adjunct lecturing at usa universities. just an hourly wage, no benefits. class prep and exam prep was dont on my own time. temporary i did not pursue permanent position

[Mambowoman]

8 minutes ago, Benroon said:

So 5 pages in and I'm still wondering 'why do they keep doing' what ?

Baiting and switching.

[thequietman]

48 minutes ago, elgenon said:

They got the teacher they wanted. They figure you will do as told. Perhaps you should accept it or leave. They will not change.

True ... regarding the point that they won't change. I am Irish and head strong and WILL tell them to get F#### if they keep pushing me! ????

[moontang]

16 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

i have worked with and known many japanese people. night and day compared with the vast majority of thai's. integrity, honor, efficiency, reliability, respect, hard work, excellent education are the rule not the exception.

Agreed.. the Germans of Asia.. And as far as the Thai auto industry.. Zero of it was engineered or designed by Thais.  So what European country would the Thais match up with?  Greece perhaps... destroyed by debt, laziness, corruption... can get a lady for a ham sandwich.. 

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, helloagain said:

 

So, tell me, how would you have approached it? insist on your terms or you're not signing? stamp your feet and throw a tantrum? Bearing in mind, I understand their mindset. I just made a wrong assumption that a Uni would display some professionalism. I know how the 'game' works here. This one just surprised me a little but no REAL surprise.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, thequietman said:

So, tell me, how would you have approached it? insist on your terms or you're not signing? stamp your feet and throw a tantrum? Bearing in mind, I understand their mindset. I just made a wrong assumption that a Uni would display some professionalism. I know how the 'game' works here. This one just surprised me a little but no REAL surprise.

Is it your first rodeo?  

[moontang]

9 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

long time ago i did adjunct lecturing at usa universities. just an hourly wage, no benefits. class prep and exam prep was dont on my own time. temporary i did not pursue permanent position

Many are State employees at the public universities, with great benefits.  However, the crybaby k-12 teachers make more, and complain a lot more. The community colleges operate with a lot of part timers, that couldn't survive on that wage, alone, which at least means they possibly have knowledge of the private sector. 

[mserror]

Before I sign a contract I alter it to suit me.

[jesimps]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:40 PM, thequietman said:

I don't mind coming in for free as it doesn't happen a lot, but I have lessons already booked and paid for by private students. Some notice and I could have turned off my schedule and all this could be avoided.

 

They gave me 11 days notice and it seems they don't give a damn what I have planned that weekend.

To give notice requires forward planning and Thais aren't big in that dept. Just imagine children in adult bodies running the establishment and you have it.

[rwill]

55 minutes ago, cheshiremusicman said:

So WHY is the Baht so blxxdy strong against all currencies and getting stronger. Surely, exports from Thailand must be suffering because of this, never mind the tourist industries?

When I first came to Thailand some 13 years ago the exchange rate to the UK pound was some 60+ and now it's 39 - It doesn't make any sense to me!

So the rich families can better afford to invest outside of their country while suckering others to invest in it.

[Bangkok Barry]

Thais allow themselves to be walked over as it seems that labour laws are weak to non-existent. It would be unfathomable to the school authorities that anyone would not agree to work extra hours unpaid when demanded. My wife was a teacher of English in Bangkok, and would happily wai the headteacher who was using her as unpaid labour.

 

And Thais do not plan ahead more than a day or two, so to give you advance warning just wouldn't happen. You either have to suck it up, go with the flow, or leave the profession as all learning establishments are the same. The place you work at now pays you so they think they own you. It happens in companies too, where you are expected to work extra hours if needed without question. A bit medievil, isn't it.

Another thing you must surely be aware of is that Thais do not question those in authority. And that your protests and refusal to play along with their demands on your free time might mean that your contract may not be renewed as you could be seen as a trouble-maker. After all, if you refuse to show up then others might get the same idea...

Along the lines of not informing, I wonder if any of your private students just haven't shown up, no warning. Although as they (or their parents) pay, that might not occur.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Bangkok Barry

[marcusarelus]

7 minutes ago, moontang said:

Agreed.. the Germans of Asia.. And as far as the Thai auto industry.. Zero of it was engineered or designed by Thais.  So what European country would the Thais match up with?  Greece perhaps... destroyed by debt, laziness, corruption... can get a lady for a ham sandwich.. 

Have you ever worked in auto design for a large car manufacturer?  If not where does your expertise come from?  Do you know why auto designers may work for many companies on a regular basis?  (hint - new cars are not designed every year).  

 

https://www.motorexpo.co.th/news/1101

 

Auto design in not rocket science but...

In June 2017, Yenbamroong founded mu Space, a company based in Bangkok that offers satellite services and Internet of Things (IoT) applications, of which he is CEO and lead design architect.  Do you think many ask him to get a ham sandwich?

[Just Weird]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 9:08 PM, thequietman said:

Rant ...... I took a position in a university here and explained at the interview that I do private classes at the weekends and in the evenings. If they need me to attend a seminar or a meeting, give me about 30 days notice and I can attend, no problem. That's fine they said ....... sign here.

 

Almost immediately, they announce that there is a graduation ceremony in the evening time and I must attend. I refer them to the interview and they have no recollection. I can't attend, they are pissed at me .... strike 1.

 

recently announced that there is a teaching seminar on a weekend 11 days from now. Again I have lessons that were booked at the start of this month. Again, anger on their part that I can't attend. I try to refer them to what was said before and I get a blank look and the 'you need to attend.' ...... strike 2.

 

The fact that I work hard, never ring in sick and never take holidays doesn't seem to register. If I don't do the evening and w/end stuff at short notice, then I am a bad teacher.

 

They have called a meeting about all this on Monday and I really don't know what to tell them when they ask why I can't attend. I have explained it over and over and now need to do it again. Why won't they listen to me? I am at my wits end about this and am close to quitting. It was the same in my other schools. Absolutely no consideration that you have a life outside office hours.

It seems that you may be exaggerating the problem according to your OP.

 

Haven't you had to miss only one seminar that you could have been given the agreed approximate notice for (the one they gave you 11 days notice for)?  As you stated yourself for the first occasion, for the almost immediately announced graduation ceremony, it was impossible for them to give you 'about 30 days notice'.  For someone in a brand new job it may have been a better idea for you to reschedule your extracurricular work.

 

In view of the fact that you have had the same problems with other schools maybe you should have got the alleged arrangement in writing, in your contract, if your private work is so inflexible.  You didn't do that even though from previous experience you could reasonably have expected the issue to arise again. You really don't have much to complain about, contractually, do you?

[Just Weird]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:02 PM, thequietman said:

I know, you are right. I keep thinking the next school will be different.

 

I thought to myself, it's a Uni, surely they will be better, but they are all the same. From primary, to secondary, to universities. Same nonsense, different day, different location but same same!

Maybe you shouldn't have made teaching your career choice from the start?

[Paul52]

On 6/14/2019 at 3:59 PM, DaRoadrunner said:

The OP is a Farang, he searches for diamond in bucket of Asian sh1t and wonders why he is not finding???

....and all he got from you was foolish nonsense.  Well done {slow hand clap}

[marcusarelus]

30 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Thais allow themselves to be walked over as it seems that labour laws are weak to non-existent. It would be unfathomable to the school authorities that anyone would not agree to work extra hours unpaid when demanded. My wife was a teacher of English in Bangkok, and would happily wai the headteacher who was using her as unpaid labour.

 

And Thais do not plan ahead more than a day or two, so to give you advance warning just wouldn't happen. You either have to suck it up, go with the flow, or leave the profession as all learning establishments are the same. The place you work at now pays you so they think they own you. It happens in companies too, where you are expected to work extra hours if needed without question. A bit medievil, isn't it.

Another thing you must surely be aware of is that Thais do not question those in authority. And that your protests and refusal to play along with their demands on your free time might mean that your contract may not be renewed as you could be seen as a trouble-maker. After all, if you refuse to show up then others might get the same idea...

Along the lines of not informing, I wonder if any of your private students just haven't shown up, no warning. Although as they (or their parents) pay, that might not occur.

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/what-do-the-thai-labor-law-tells-about-workday-overtime-and-leave/

[MartiniMan]

Can't believe you can actually work with them being in a powerful position over you that is just pure madness.

Honestly you must be very disciplined I can never imagine taking orders and fitting in with them they can barely organise a piss up in a brewery i would never allow one to be in control of anything i did besides making some food or driving a car

[thequietman]

37 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Maybe you shouldn't have made teaching your career choice from the start?

I didn't. Management and business was my thing in the UK. Took up teaching when I retired here out of boredom and then got to like it. Nowadays though, it's getting more difficult as the obvious dislike for foreign teachers is quite prevalent. At the moment, we are a necessary evil, but for how long. The current government mind set is not helping. ????

[thequietman]

44 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

It seems that you may be exaggerating the problem according to your OP.

 

Haven't you had to miss only one seminar that you could have been given the agreed approximate notice for (the one they gave you 11 days notice for)?  As you stated yourself for the first occasion, for the almost immediately announced graduation ceremony, it was impossible for them to give you 'about 30 days notice'.  For someone in a brand new job it may have been a better idea for you to reschedule your extracurricular work.

 

In view of the fact that you have had the same problems with other schools maybe you should have got the alleged arrangement in writing, in your contract, if your private work is so inflexible.  You didn't do that even though from previous experience you could reasonably have expected the issue to arise again. You really don't have much to complain about, contractually, do you?

I get where you are coming from, but with their mindset, I would be unable to secure a contract at any school if I start stipulating what I want. The Thai;s are set in their ways as I am sure you are aware. It's better to try to change it from within. This just isn't 1 incident, there have been many and I have been able to negotiate around them. This one however, is on the weekend and is costing me money. Money that they are not prepared to pay in overtime. That changes the 'game.'

[mfd101]

Forward planning not a strength in this country. Spontaneity is the life of the party. Either go with the flow or just go.

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, mserror said:

Before I sign a contract I alter it to suit me.

and they agree ?????

[thequietman]

15 minutes ago, MartiniMan said:

Can't believe you can actually work with them being in a powerful position over you that is just pure madness.

Honestly you must be very disciplined I can never imagine taking orders and fitting in with them they can barely organise a piss up in a brewery i would never allow one to be in control of anything i did besides making some food or driving a car

Once in the system for a while, it becomes 'water off a ducks back' and you learn to switch off. Once you stop taking it seriously, it becomes more manageable and you just nod and agree like the natives do. You do what you want and ignore the rest.

This time however, is 2 full days of a seminar and you can't smile this one away. Worst of all, it is on a weekend!

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Is it your first rodeo?  

Definitely not, but I was naive in thinking a Uni would be different. Only schools before, so wrongly assumed that these guys would be different. :)

 

However, I will try to ride the storm and take their money. However, they have succeeded in massively demotivating myself and my colleagues, so well done them!

 

They are nothing but consistent.

[geisha]

Why didn’t you write into your contract your terms of days and times you can and cannot work ? Then if they refuse you know where you are .

[Letseng]

On 6/14/2019 at 4:35 PM, thequietman said:

I know, it was naive of me, but why won't they accept what I am telling them? Its like a roundabout, they ask me to come in on days off, evenings and weekends, I explain I have private lessons, they get angry, rinse then repeat. There doesn't seem to be any learning curve!

 

And then when I quit, they will seem confused and ask me why! 

 

 

Arrrrggggg !

Or they are glad to see the back of you?

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/what-do-the-thai-labor-law-tells-about-workday-overtime-and-leave/

 

Nice reading, but since when does the law and what it says have any relevance in Thailand? If the OP wanted to take his employer to court (at what expense?), you can be sure that the employer would put the word around and he would never find himself 'suitable' for a job in his profession again. Making someone lose face here is as bad a thing as you can do, and can have extremely serious consequences.

[Dogbarker]

Unlike one of the readers I got past page 5 to page 6 before asking the same question as him... Nevertheless I can see the point about working beyond the 9-5 or school opening times , also the extra curricular work normally undertaken by teachers in the vocation ( err job). we do have some sympathy.  I can see how schools do not give you enough notice and expect you you to work hard outside normal times. Pretty much how many of their lesser paid  Thai teachers are treated too!  You are lucky to be paid for your vocation in a country where it  generally seems many children are receptive to learning rather than just a crowd controller or child minder. 

 To be a teacher is also a privilege that regretfully I am not qualified to do. So I appreciate the hard work done by those who can.However I do have a query .. Private lessons being given for money? Is that something legal you can do ? Does immigration  and the tax man know about this... I can see the next headline teacher arrested and deported. The school with the work permit would be my priority if I were honest. If I was the school I might query if you were in competition and ask you to leave  after they received compensation for loss of their income..... !

 

Sometimes it is good to have a paying job... I remember a patch in the 1990's where work for me was elusive and times were hard. Sometime folk are lucky not to have had this experience. Although I came through and probably better for it, It was not nice. Am I saying be grateful? Perhaps.......

.

[moontang]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Have you ever worked in auto design for a large car manufacturer?  If not where does your expertise come from?  Do you know why auto designers may work for many companies on a regular basis?  (hint - new cars are not designed every year).  

 

https://www.motorexpo.co.th/news/1101

 

Auto design in not rocket science but...

In June 2017, Yenbamroong founded mu Space, a company based in Bangkok that offers satellite services and Internet of Things (IoT) applications, of which he is CEO and lead design architect.  Do you think many ask him to get a ham sandwich?

He left Thailand at 14, and the company doesn't own a single satellite.  A lady from my uni is CEO and President of his former emp!over in the States, earns 6 million per year, and probably has people like him cleaning toilets.

Edited June 16, 2019 by moontang