Usa Tourist Visa Process

[altman]

i am an american who will try to take my thai gf to america later this year as a 90 day tourist.

we have just begun the process. this is what we have discovered so far.

if you are in or around chiang mai use this web address for the chiang mai consulate directions

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/consulcm/serv...touristvisa.htm

it is the responsibility to the applicant to prove that they do not intend to remain in the states. this proof may take any form that is deemed acceptable by the visa officer and is not specified, but may consist of employment letters and statements, land ownership, business ownership, income or tax statements, bank books, etc, etc, etc. take everything with you to show them if they ask is the way we will go.

1... the application must be filled out on-line. (this seems to me to be a strange request as it requires people in a third world country to have internet access before they can visit the usa. it also exposes those who don't have private inet access and must use inet cafes to exposure of personal data.)

2... you must obtain a PIN number before getting an appointment or filling out the application. this can be done at thai post where you can also pay the application fee and arrange for a courier envelope to receive your visa. (of note here is that the forms to be filled out are strickly in thai. no english translation available. not so strange as it must be assumed that most people in thailand who want ot visit the us of a will be thai literate. however, to further obfuscate the process, the visa application itself is in english)

so far i have made one short trip to the consulate to find out i need to fill out the form on line and one trip to thai post to get the forms to fill out. cost will be 3,800 baht for the 'non-refundable' application fee. (whether you get a visa or not the fee will be kept by the impoverished government of america). the PIN will cost, for the inet version, 456 baht. there is also a telephone version for slightly higher cost.

updates as we progress ...

Edited March 13, 2007 by altman

[thaihome]

The significant others of many people here have successfully got US tourist visas. Hundreds, if not thousands of Thai’s get US tourist visas every month, they are either genuine tourist or business people. I know of at least 50 over the past 6 months.

A couple of notes

1. As you appear to live here, it will become very important to show your ties to Thailand, e.g. long term visa, work permit, condo ownership or lease agreement, joint bank account(s), etc.

2. Once establishing your ties to Thailand, as you are not married, you will have to establish her relationship to you.

3. If successful, your GF will probably receive a multi-entry visa valid for 10 years.

4. On entry to US, she will likely receive an entry stamp good for 6 months.

Good luck, keep us posted.

TH

[altman]

The significant others of many people here have successfully got US tourist visas. Hundreds, if not thousands of Thai’s get US tourist visas every month, they are either genuine tourist or business people. I know of at least 50 over the past 6 months.

A couple of notes

1. As you appear to live here, it will become very important to show your ties to Thailand, e.g. long term visa, work permit, condo ownership or lease agreement, joint bank account(s), etc.

2. Once establishing your ties to Thailand, as you are not married, you will have to establish her relationship to you.

3. If successful, your GF will probably receive a multi-entry visa valid for 10 years.

4. On entry to US, she will likely receive an entry stamp good for 6 months.

Good luck, keep us posted.

TH

thanks for the input. but it raises a couple of questions: (keep in mind this is a tourist visa for her. i am just an american who is going along with her. or so i think of it. maybe i should change my perspective?)

why should I have to establish any ties to thailand? SHE is the one applying. (i can show a legal residence address in america for me. she will be 'sponsored' by another person in america)

why do WE need to show a relationship? SHE is the one applying.

when the application asks for how long she intends to remain in the states should she ask for 30, 60 90, or 180 days? ( i expect that we will be there about a month, but have no specific plans yet)

meanwhile:

paid the app fee and PIN number fee at thai post. they also had us pay for the courier envelope although i was going to wait until the visa was approved. no point in paying for an envelope that wouldn't be used, but it seemed easier to pay than argue the point.

enter thai post and get the forms at the PIN VISA desk. fill them out and wait your turn at the counter to pay. about 1 hour. air con and comfortable. no problem.

today i will fill out the application on-line and make an appointment.

[thaihome]

In the consulates eyes, one of the biggest risks for a young female with an American boyfriend is when she gets there they will get married and apply for a change of status, short-circuiting the immigration process. If they suspect she has ties to someone living in the US as opposed to someone living in Thailand who will return to Thailand they will likely refuse the visa. There is no such thing as “sponsorship” for an US tourist visa, as a matter of fact, sponsorship, except in a business relationship i.e. invitation to attend a conference or such, can be counter-productive.

You should put down the duration of the trip you are currently contemplating, but it is immaterial. If approved she will probably get a 10 year multi entry and on arrival be stamped in for 6 months.

You can go about it any way you want. I was just offering advice based on numerous other people, who live in Thailand, success (including my wife's own) in obtaining a tourist visa.

TH

[altman]

moving right along ...

i waited a day for the PIN number to become active and then went on line at http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/consulcm/serv...touristvisa.htm

to schedule an appointment and fill out the DS-156 form.

this is fairly straight forward. click, click, confirm, click sort of stuff. a variety of days and times are offered for the appointment so that's no problem. be aware it does state that if you want an appointment in chiang mai you must bring with you documentation showing that you have been resident in one of the northern provinces for the past 3 months. this shouldn't be a problem as you will probably have those docs with you anyway.

on the DS-156 form i chose to answer all questions accurately. that is to say, i am helping her fill out the form so i signed it as well. i also state that both she and i will be paying for the trip. this last may or may not be a mistake in terms of granting the visa, but it is the truth and that is always easier, whether it is beneficial or not.

'generate' and then print this form. take it with you to the interview.

after filling out the DS-156 i went to

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/79964.pdf

to fill out the supplemental DS-157 form. this requires a bit more detailed information such as father and mothers name, schools, and work history. might as well get it in advance and do it all at once.

note on this form, it can not be saved, (on line), but you fill it in online and then print it out. as another poster has said, take it with you to the interview. also on this form the dates for school and work, (on my machine), couldn't be completed on line. i did what i could and then printed the form and hand wrote the rest.

we/she has an interview in early april. probably nothing to do until then except make sure all the papers are in order.

[lopburi3]

Several posts have tried to offer very good advise. One more try. She must prove to the officer that she is likely to return to Thailand at the end of any visit. With a relationship shown to an American the fact that the American has strong ties outside the US will be very important in easing the concern that this is a ploy to obtain entry and then apply for adjustment of status after a quick marriage. I would provide her

with any such proof that I could.

[thaihome]

Several posts have tried to offer very good advise. One more try. She must prove to the officer that she is likely to return to Thailand at the end of any visit. With a relationship shown to an American the fact that the American has strong ties outside the US will be very important in easing the concern that this is a ploy to obtain entry and then apply for adjustment of status after a quick marriage. I would provide her

with any such proof that I could.

apears to be wasted effort. OP seems to more concerned with PINs and paying for courier fees he may not need when visa is refused since he has not paid attention to actually figuring out to get visa approved.

Can't wait for the thread cussing out consulate for rejecting application.

TH

[ProThaiExpat]

thaihome and lopburi3 are spot on regarding "the burden of proof to overcome the interviewer's legally mandated obligation to begin the interview with the assumption that the interviewee will overstay the visa".

How's that for legaleze.

Thus when a national of the country to be visited is involved, the most important issue to be determined is whether the boyfriend is tied to Thailand long term and the relationship between the two is strong enough to ensure return to Thailand where the boyfriend is longstay.

[altman]

well i would like to report that we have a visa in hand, having followed all directions to the letter. unfortunately that is not the case.

while some have implied that it would be necessary to lie, fabricate, or obfuscate the information in order to deceive the interviewers, we chose to put all the information in exactly the manner in which it could best be supported. but, not being blind pigs, we also tried to include information that would be of most benefit to our success.

this included profit/loss statements for her business, a chanote for some land she owns, and our stated willingness to return to thailand when the vacation was over, together with the implication and statement of return fare air tickets). not having any specific plans we could not make any affirmative declaration regarding those, but felt that the emphasis on making sure she came back to thailand would be of the most importance. so that is what we tried to do.

on the day of the appointment she decided for reasons that have yet to be resolved as 'reasonable' to not go to the interview. so no visa. having thrown my own fit, she is now dropping hints that maybe she should try again. in time, and we have some so that is not the biggest factor, i suppose she will win me over and we will try again.

there is no way to plan for everything!!

[Thanyaburi Mac]

well i would like to report that we have a visa in hand, having followed all directions to the letter. unfortunately that is not the case.

while some have implied that it would be necessary to lie, fabricate, or obfuscate the information in order to deceive the interviewers, we chose to put all the information in exactly the manner in which it could best be supported. but, not being blind pigs, we also tried to include information that would be of most benefit to our success.

this included profit/loss statements for her business, a chanote for some land she owns, and our stated willingness to return to thailand when the vacation was over, together with the implication and statement of return fare air tickets). not having any specific plans we could not make any affirmative declaration regarding those, but felt that the emphasis on making sure she came back to thailand would be of the most importance. so that is what we tried to do.

on the day of the appointment she decided for reasons that have yet to be resolved as 'reasonable' to not go to the interview. so no visa. having thrown my own fit, she is now dropping hints that maybe she should try again. in time, and we have some so that is not the biggest factor, i suppose she will win me over and we will try again.

there is no way to plan for everything!!

Hey, Altman, look at the bright side, sort of, at least her visa application wasn't rejected!  However, another $100 blown away that could have been spent usefully supporting the Boonrawd Brewery.

If you do choose to try again, another couple items I've taken with me to interview with my wife, now, GF prior, is the several U.S. magazine subscriptions I have delivered here to Thailand, with my name and local address on them.  Also my Social Security info, IRS, and retirement stuff, all comes directly here.  This does tend to indicate that I'm sort of "settled" here.  In addition, I'm on the retirement extension of my Non-O visa and have been for some time, that helps.  

TiT!!!

Mac

[thaihome]

...while some have implied that it would be necessary to lie, fabricate, or obfuscate the information in order to deceive the interviewers, we chose to put all the information in exactly the manner in which it could best be supported. but, not being blind pigs, we also tried to include information that would be of most benefit to our success...

Having just re-read through this thread, I failed to find anyone implying you should "lie, fabricate, or obfuscate the information". Please explain how you came to this conclusion.

All I found was advice that you should be sure to include proof of your ties to Thailand. To which, for some reason, you seemed to have taken great offence.

Good luck on your next try.

TH

[Tod Daniels]

Some people seem blind to the fact that a GREAT many people from a GREAT many countries in the world go to the USA on tourist visa's only to end up falling thru the cracks, off the immigrations radar and staying endlessly. While I doubt that is the case of the OP's significant other it is a sad but true fact.

It is up to the applicant to prove they have genuine and sincere intentions of returning to the glorious "Land 'O Thais", hence the "strong ties to thailand" advice.

Your 'sponsorship', 'relationship', and/or affiliation to and with the applicant may in fact jeopardize their chances of success IF it is perceived you are trying to in any way circumvent the system. Which I might ad; I am in no way suggesting. I only point out the US officials seem to play devil's advocate rather than rubber stamping tourist visa approvals en masse.

I know MANY thais who have gotten their 10 year tourist visa to the USA and traveled there several times. True, it does take time for the approval procedure, take properly filled out applications, take paperwork, an interview, and the fees. However IF the applicant is truly a 'tourist', has ties to the glorious "Land 'O Thais", and doesn't try to play the system, it is NOT difficult nor is it the harrowing experience you are trying to make it out to be.

I read this entire thread twice. I could by no stretch of my imagination see how in reading the advice offered you thought you were encouraged to; "lie, fabricate, or obfuscate the information in order to deceive the interviewers".

I await the further responses by the OP with bated breath. Once he cajoles the applicant in to actually attending an interview I am sure we will hear more. Unfortunately, it already reads like a slow motion train wreck.

Good helpful advice was offered, and if not taken, well; สมน้ำหน้า to you and yours.

[ProThaiExpat]

tod-daniels: Bravo for an insightful post.

While I have taken my Thai overseas many times, I have yet to do it to the USA. Waiting for GWB to leave office.

Anyway, in checking out the situation, I got onto the State Department web sites and the information contained therein is very insightful and when read thoroughly and understood, there is little doubt what is required to obtain a tourist visa for a Thai.

What is so often disregarded is the clear mandate that "the burden of proof rests on the applicant to convince the interviewer that there is a compelling reason to return to Thailand prior to the visa expiring". The website further advises that interviewing officers are mandated by U.S. law to begin the interview with the mindset that the interviewee will overstay their visa and it is up to the interviewee to convince the interviewer to the contrary.

An extremely strong mandate that really flies in the face of most governmental procedures, even adding no appeal!!

Thus we see angry posts where a guy living in the U.S. with only occasional tourist visits to Thailand can't get his under 30 girlfriend into the U.S. on a tourist visa and her employment history is spotty at best.

I can't recall of a reported visa refusal that didn't seem justified once the truth of the matter was elicited, as the first posts are usually only anger vents.

I have previously posted my initial refusal for a visa to Australia until we got honest and then the situation was turned around. Why is it difficult for some to understand that a Thai's employment is not critical if he/she is in a committed relationship with a long stay falang in Thailand who is covering the bills and who is paying for the trip.

On the other hand, if it is a young Thai with small employment opportunities who would gladly accept employment in the U.S., obviously they would be treated otherwise.

[treeman]

A quick question about a Thai persons reasons for returning to the LOS.

My Thai girlfriend is studying in University, and has about a year left. She doenst own her own business, land, home, ect. She only has a part time job while she studies. Her family is not real wealthy, so she wouldnt be able to show much for bank accout statements. So she doesnt really have any good reasons to show why she would come back to LOS.

We would like her to come on a tourist visa, so she can see if she would like it here or not.

Do you think we would have any chance at all of gettting her a tourist visa? Would it be a waste of time and money to even apply for one?

[ProThaiExpat]

Treeman: You evaluate her chances using the criteria previously posted "Compelling reasons to return".

She has one reason, her enrollment in University. Is it a prestigious one that was difficult to get in? Are her ties strong at the University arguing strongly that she would want to finish? Are her grades superior? Is she involved in research work or an aide to a professor? etc.

If I read your post between the lines, it looks like you are not long stay in Thailand yourself? If so, you want to stay away from her application. If her boyfriend is a U.S. resident, ie her love interest, it is definitely a very big negative as her tourist application would look like an attempt to end run a fiancee visa.

With the limited information provided, I would say her best bet would be some form of exchange program for university students or attendance at some seminar recommended by her professor and closely affiliated with her major.

Edited April 14, 2007 by ProThaiExpat

[treeman]

You are correct, I am living in the US, no long stay in Thailand.

She does not attend a large univeristy, Rajabhat University in Chiang Mai. She doesnt seem to be too involved with anything outside her normal studies, just doing what she has to do to get her degree, no extracarricular activities.

Things arent looking too good.

Thanks for the advice about staying away from her application. I will keep that in mind if we ever decide to try and get her a tourist visa.