TAT chief blames high baht and lack of Europeans for drop in Thai tourism

[marcusarelus]

6 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Please explain to me how they get to these figures...

 

ThaiWebsites.com is a human-edited web directory for English-language Thailand-related resources.  Feel free to ask them.  

[spidermike007]

20 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

I wonder why the Le Meridien in Chiang Mai is full of Chinese tourists and they pay the normal room rate of minimum 5,000 Baht per night. Also the other 5 star hotels are full of Chinese. But the dormitories are full of western tourists. 

Tourists are not interested in the political system or the human rights of the vacation country. They visit China, Cambodia, Turkey, etc. - all not known as democratic countries.

You are referring to a pinhead of Chinese tourists. 1% at most. 99% are on package tours and spend nearly nothing. Everyone in tourism is complaining right now. The industry is decimated. Ask around. 

[BestB]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You are referring to a pinhead of Chinese tourists. 1% at most. 99% are on package tours and spend nearly nothing. Everyone in tourism is complaining right now. The industry is decimated. Ask around. 

He is talking out of his backside.

 

many hotels have contracts with some Chinese agents or tours, they get contract rate which in many cases is as cheap as a guesthouse .

 

old montien in Pattaya had deals with Indian agents . You paid 3000 for room, Indians paid 600 baht 

[Chelseafan]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

ThaiWebsites.com is a human-edited web directory for English-language Thailand-related resources.  Feel free to ask them.  

In other words you don't know.

 

The data is coming from the Ministry of Tourism and Sports so must be 100% reliable!

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

10 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Please explain to me how they get to these figures...

 

 

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

ThaiWebsites.com is a human-edited web directory for English-language Thailand-related resources.  Feel free to ask them.  

Chelseafan is right to ask the question.  How on earth do they know how much each tourist spends each day??

 

Your response is a non-reply.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

He is talking out of his backside.

 

many hotels have contracts with some Chinese agents or tours, they get contract rate which in many cases is as cheap as a guesthouse .

 

old montien in Pattaya had deals with Indian agents . You paid 3000 for room, Indians paid 600 baht 

Absolutely correct. In exchange for the high arrival numbers, the TAT and this administration has sold the nation and it's people down the river. 

 

The tours are costing Thailand and it is resulting in millions of lost jobs. It is a tragedy in the making. And it is irreversible. The quality western tourists are gone forever. Discouraged and forgotten. 

 

Eventually, one would presume the baht will correct in proportion to the horrific policy being imposed. Maybe?

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

How on earth do they know how much each tourist spends each day??

Is there still the TM6 questionnaire in the back? I used to check the highest just to bring the Euro stats up. Can't be losing to no Asians can we, face and all.

 

The real answer is they got zero clue and pulled the figures out of their arse, most likely seeded by the Destroyress of Thailand, Kobkarn, in her glory days while letting the Chinese through the gates.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

In other words you don't know.

 

The data is coming from the Ministry of Tourism and Sports so must be 100% reliable!

Actually I do know.  They get the numbers the same way the USA gets unemployment numbers.  By survey.  No desire to go through a statistics training course if you want more information google how the government measures unemployment.  

[cmsally]

I don't know about other cities, but in Chiang Mai it has been common practice for Chinese to buy (using a Thai) or 30 yr lease land (to build hotels) and hotels ready built. I would have thought this would skew the statistics somewhat. In other words Chinese coming in and spending in Chinese businesses. Many Chinese Air BnB's and massage shops too.

[Chelseafan]

13 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Actually I do know.  They get the numbers the same way the USA gets unemployment numbers.  By survey.  No desire to go through a statistics training course if you want more information google how the government measures unemployment.  

So either they ask people in which case that's incredibly inaccurate as people by nature will big themselves up or they take a survey of x people and factor up which again has a high margin of error.

 

That's why I take these figures with a huge grain of salt.

 

Someone mentioned that the data was taken from credit card transactions supplied by the CC companies. If that's true then again it's highly inaccurate as Farangs don't tend to use their credit cards in Thailand in the same way Asians do.

 

The question I have is WHAT makes up the daily spend? I somehow doubt your daily barfine is included in the calculation...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chelseafan]

21 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Is there still the TM6 questionnaire in the back? I used to check the highest just to bring the Euro stats up. Can't be losing to no Asians can we, face and all.

 

Good man ???? Though the asians are probably doing the same thing....

 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

So either they ask people in which case that's incredibly inaccurate as people by nature will big themselves up or they take a survey of x people and factor up which again has a high margin of error.

The margin of error is less than 1%.  Like I said look up how modern countries figure Unemployment statistics.  USA, Australia, UK and so on..  I guess you think of statistics in your grandfather's day and will start quoting Mark Twain any minute.  Google Germany labor force survey methodology for an idea of how modern statistics work and how Thailand computes numbers for the TAT.  

[CNXexpat]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

You are referring to a pinhead of Chinese tourists. 1% at most. 99% are on package tours and spend nearly nothing. Everyone in tourism is complaining right now. The industry is decimated. Ask around. 

It depends where you are. In Pattaya you are right, in Chiang Mai 80 - 90% of the Chinese tourists are individual travellers, they come with friends or family and they visit local shops, massages, restaurants and markets. Nothing to complain about them.

[ChipButty]

I dont care what the stats say I drive by the gypsy village in Rawai every night around 7 pm its where the seafood market is, there are no buses like there used to be navigating around groups of Chinese running across the road.

On top of that the Thai's have killed the golden goose with the prices they have been charging for the last few years 

[CNXexpat]

3 hours ago, cmsally said:

I don't know about other cities, but in Chiang Mai it has been common practice for Chinese to buy (using a Thai) or 30 yr lease land (to build hotels) and hotels ready built. I would have thought this would skew the statistics somewhat. In other words Chinese coming in and spending in Chinese businesses. Many Chinese Air BnB's and massage shops too.

All hotel and restaurant owners and managers I know in Chiang Mai, farang and Thai, make a lot of money with their Chinese guests and customers. So not ALL Chinese go to Chinese owned businesses. Also I saw many Chinese buying at the markets and food stalls. 

[CNXexpat]

15 hours ago, lkv said:

7. Police all over the place.

 

If i was a tourist and went to a country for the first time, seeing police everywhere would create anxiety. As in..."where the hell did i just land".

 

Thai logic, when tourist numbers are down: to send even more police at the airport (Don Mueang last year), to "reassure" Chinese tourists they are safe.

 

You can't make this sh#t up.

It´s common all over the world to have a lot of police in the airports. But I only see police there, never on the streets. I have never been in a country with no police on the streets like Thailand - except a VIP is coming, then they are every 50 m. 

You better never travel to China. In the big cities you see every few meters a policeman and cameras everywhere.

[lkv]

1 minute ago, CNXexpat said:

It´s common all over the world to have a lot of police in the airports. But I only see police there, never on the streets. I have never been in a country with no police on the streets like Thailand - except a VIP is coming, then they are every 50 m. 

You better never travel to China. In the big cities you see every few meters a policeman and cameras everywhere.

Because that's police state, same like Thailand, North Korea and USA.

 

I prefer to travel to non police states.

[CNXexpat]

13 minutes ago, lkv said:

Because that's police state, same like Thailand, North Korea and USA.

 

I prefer to travel to non police states.

Thailand? A police state with no police on the streets?

[lkv]

8 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Thailand? A police state with no police on the streets?

We clearly lived in different places. I was in downtown Bangkok, which was heavily policed, passport checks, taxi stops, body search, occasionally peeing in the cup on the street, not to mention the famous weekly "good guys in, bad guys out" crackdowns, one of which I had the pleasure to pass by one night at Citibank Asok.

 

As you can imagine, I walked on the other side, I was not in the mood to be molested just so that they can do their photo shoot with the media and look good on camera.

[CNXexpat]

2 minutes ago, lkv said:

We clearly lived in different places. I was in downtown Bangkok, which was heavily policed, passport checks, taxi stops, occasionally peeing in the cup on the street, not to mention the famous crackdowns, one of which I had the pleasure to pass by one night at Citibank Asok.

 

As you can imagine, I walked on the other side, I was not in the mood to be molested just so that they can do their photo shoot with the media and look good on camera.

Ok, I understand. Not so nice. Never happened to me all over Thailand and I have never seen in the years since I am living in Thailand.

[spidermike007]

13 minutes ago, lkv said:

Because that's police state, same like Thailand, North Korea and USA.

 

I prefer to travel to non police states.

Thailand is nothing like the US. Here I see few police. And they rarely hassle me. When they do I often tell them to leave me alone. I have no interest in your franchise and get out of my face. Often they do just that. You resist and they sort of give in. Oh, you are not an easy mark. Ok. On to the next one. I have even driven away from the police here, when I felt they were being unreasonable. Just took off. They did nothing. I do not despise them here, like I do in the US. Just do not respect the franchise. 

 

In the US I would get arrested or killed for that behavior or lack of respect. Helicopters would pursue me for miles. It would be a mandatory prison sentence. Law enforcement is so over the top and out of control in the US. I have zero respect for those guys. And racist? Nearly every department there engages in profiling. 

 

So, given a choice, I would choose the lazy incompetency here, and the easy payoffs, over the extreme over reach of authority in America. 

 

 

[spidermike007]

7 minutes ago, lkv said:

We clearly lived in different places. I was in downtown Bangkok, which was heavily policed, passport checks, taxi stops, body search, occasionally peeing in the cup on the street, not to mention the famous weekly "good guys in, bad guys out" crackdowns, one of which I had the pleasure to pass by one night at Citibank Asok.

 

As you can imagine, I walked on the other side, I was not in the mood to be molested just so that they can do their photo shoot with the media and look good on camera.

I would never submit to a urine test on the street. I would absolutely refuse. Take me downtown. Lock me up. Homey does not play that game officer. Next. 

 

I get the opposite treatment. Rarely ever hassled. Once in a blue moon they ask to see my drivers license. They look at it, see it is Thai and current, and wave me on. 

[lkv]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

So, given a choice, I would choose the lazy incompetency here, and the easy payoffs, over the extreme over reach of authority in America. 

 

 

The choices are not limited to Thailand and US.

[spidermike007]

2 minutes ago, lkv said:

The choices are not limited to Thailand and US.

Of course not. But, that is the nation and culture I left behind. Thankfully. 

 

And since I visit regularly, I am often reminded of the authoritarian repression there. That is one aspect of life in the US I do not miss. 

[lkv]

50 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Ok, I understand. Not so nice. Never happened to me all over Thailand and I have never seen in the years since I am living in Thailand.

On a positive note, I'd say last time I came back to Bkk (I'm in Europe now), it seemed less policed. As a matter of fact, I saw a police car stop at the same place there at Asok, take a pic of them "doing their job" (i.e. we've been here), and speeding off. So things might be "back to normal" and it might have been a pre-election thingy.

 

I also appreciate that Thonglo police is not representative of the rest of police in Thailand. They have the worst reputation.

 

So I do take all that into account. However, it left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I understand what spidermike007 is saying also, that things are worse in the US, however we here in Europe have a culture where we look at these people as public servants, paid out of the taxpayer's pocket, and we don't like or take abuse. By comparisson, for me in that respect, the behaviour of RTP was worse.

[BuckBee]

Well Uncle Buck got beat by the taxi mafia and the old ladies selling lottery tickets,

if I was a gambling man I would say cuddly toys whoop him too ...

lot of hot air and no real effort on the real issues/corruption :-/

[CNXexpat]

12 minutes ago, lkv said:

On a positive note, I'd say last time I came back to Bkk (I'm in Europe now), it seemed less policed. As a matter of fact, I saw a police car stop at the same place there at Asok, take a pic of them "doing their job", and speeding off. So things might be "back to normal" and it might have been a pre-election thingy.

 

I also appreciate that Thonglo police is not representative of the rest of police in Thailand. They have the worst reputation.

 

So I do take all that into account. However, it left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I understand what spidermike007 is saying also, that things are worse in the US, however we here in Europe have a culture where we look at these people as public servants, paid out of the taxpayer's pocket, and we don't like or take abuse. By comparisson, for me in that respect, Thailand was worse.

Come to Chiang Mai. The only policemen you will see are the ones who are at checkpoints for scooters or rarely for cars. Ok, very, very rarely they check clubs in the night for drugs and underage people. But I never saw it personally. 

[Chelseafan]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

The margin of error is less than 1%.  Like I said look up how modern countries figure Unemployment statistics.  USA, Australia, UK and so on..  I guess you think of statistics in your grandfather's day and will start quoting Mark Twain any minute.  Google Germany labor force survey methodology for an idea of how modern statistics work and how Thailand computes numbers for the TAT.  

I'm well aware how statistics are calculated having a higher-level diploma in computer studies. I would be astounded if the margin of error is less than 1%. Whilst I appreciate it's necessary to gather data, you cannot really say that on a survey of let's say 60,000 people that this is representative of 60 million people. It's a guide for sure but so many factors can skew results. Even if you ask every one of the 60million, some will lie or give false data.

 

Yes, OK, you got me. There's lies, damned lies and then there's statistics ????

 

 

[sandmonster]

On 6/26/2019 at 3:13 AM, BestB said:

Well that’s in total contradiction to our Thai visa experts who claim Chinese outspend Europeans. 

 

Would appear Chinese spending does not make up for loss of European money . 

Thai Visa experts simply Google it. Like it or not, every article says Chinese outspend Europeans on holiday here. Try it sometime ????

 

Chinese numbers have been declining since last year's Pattaya incident. Loss in European AND Chinese money mitigated somewhat by increases from India, ME, Asia etc who are probably even bigger spenders than even the Chinese.

[Chelseafan]

Just now, sandmonster said:

Thai Visa experts simply Google it. Like it or not, every article says Chinese outspend Europeans on holiday here. Try it sometime ????

 

Chinese numbers have been declining since last year's Pattaya incident. Loss in European AND Chinese money mitigated somewhat by increases from India, ME, Asia etc who are probably even bigger spenders than even the Chinese.

This is not the point we were making. Yes they outspend because there's so many of them. The point was that per person they do not.