Pr Requirements

[sabaijai]

I just spent a weekend road trip upcountry with three highly-placed Suan Phlu immigration officials, mutual friends of a close friend of mine who organised the trip. The highest ranking among the three is Thai immigration's chief internal auditor, one of the key people who review applications for permanent residency.

Naturally at one point when they were looking relaxed, I pumped them for info on PR and a few other immigration issues I was interested in. One of the biggest surprises, for me, was that they look very closely at a PR applicant's income at the time of applying. This applies to cases where PR is requested after three years on a work permit and non-B visa. There are other kinds of PR applicants, including family, but we didn't discuss those categories at all.

The two officers who work closely with PR applications said they want to see a monthly income of at least THB50,000, preferably more like 70-80K. When I mentioned that nothing in the written regs mentions a min income, they said there's a whole range of things they look for that are not written down, and income is one of them. And of course tax receipts for at least three consecutive years, with lots of tax paid (commensurate to the income levels noted above).

A second unwritten factor they examine is whether the work you are doing at the time you request PR is beneficial to Thailand in some way. As examples they suggested a successful bar owner probably would be viewed in a potentially negative light, while someone involved in rural aid work or teaching would be more favourably viewed. I'm sure there would be a few grey areas as far as work is concerned, but we didn't get into that.

Yet another factor they look at is how well they think your personality integrates with 'Thai society'. (This will undoubtedly inspire thaivisa.com members to post examples such as "Like never using your turn signals when driving?"). When I pressed them for examples here they cited dress, demeanour and Thai language skills.

I asked how many PR applications they receive in a typical year and after much discussion among the three they gave me a figure of 'roughly 2000'. I had meant to ask them which countries have the most applicants, but didn't think of the question till after they returned to Bangkok.

When I asked about how many years you had to be a PR before you could apply for citizenship, they said it was three years. This accords with what a Thai immigration lawyer told me two years ago, but obviously doesn't agree with what's posted on some Thai immigration sites. They did add, though, that an applicant was more likely to get citizenship if they waited five years.

Of all the factors we discussed, they said income was the most important.

[ovenman]

Of all the factors we discussed, they said income was the most important.

Interesting report. Lends a certain amount of credence to the standard farang line of thinking that the Thais only want rich foreigners here.

[sabaijai]

Of all the factors we discussed, they said income was the most important.

Interesting report. Lends a certain amount of credence to the standard farang line of thinking that the Thais only want rich foreigners here.

Yes indeed. One funny remark I remember one of the officers made: "If an applicant is married to a Thai woman, they'll need at least THB50-60,000 a month to support her." Said in all seriousness. I wanted to ask him how he managed to support his Thai wife on a policeman's meagre salary but thought better of it.

Edited May 31, 2004 by sabaijai

[huski]

I asked how many PR applications they receive in a typical year and after much discussion among the three they gave me a figure of 'roughly 2000'.

sabaijai, must have been an interesting weekend...thanks for the field report.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I asked how many PR applications they receive in a typical year and after much discussion among the three they gave me a figure of 'roughly 2000'.

sabaijai, must have been an interesting weekend...thanks for the field report.

Hey Sabaijai ... valuable contacts there ... keep 'em on your list of friends at all costs. You never know when you might need 'em

[Digger]

This is consistent with what a big wig lawyer told me a couple of years ago about PR - that is tax paid is the single biggest factor in determining success of an applicant.

[astral]

Thanks for the useful update.

With the TAX requirement it looks as though a retired person stands little chance of PR.

[sabaijai]

I asked how many PR applications they receive in a typical year and after much discussion among the three they gave me a figure of 'roughly 2000'.

sabaijai, must have been an interesting weekend...thanks for the field report.

Hey Sabaijai ... valuable contacts there ... keep 'em on your list of friends at all costs. You never know when you might need 'em

Don't worry, Doc, I'm hanging on to their namecards plus the mobile number of the chief internal auditor. She said if I ever had a problem to call her, and that when I go for PR, she'd do what she could to make it go smoothly.

One other bit of advice they gave me was to let someone at immigration review all my documents well before the December filing period. I hadn't realised that was an option, ie I figured they wouldn't want to waste time looking at any docs till you actually applied. Or perhaps they were offering this as a personal favour, they didn't specify which.

[samran]

this is what my old boss has done this time around. First time he applied he got rejected on a technicalilty as he didn't have 3 years of tax receipts. Even though he used to work for a multilateral organisation (and hence tax exempt) they didn't care.

This time around he has gone through his application with the main contact for PR at Suan Phlu and he reckons he has a better chance this time around. They were pretty strict about the 3 years of income tax having been paid.

All in all, what you have outlined rings true with what I have heard.

I also think just on a cultural integration level, if you have been in Thailand for a little while, what the immigration officers have told you should be common sense for applicants anyway.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I asked how many PR applications they receive in a typical year and after much discussion among the three they gave me a figure of 'roughly 2000'.

sabaijai, must have been an interesting weekend...thanks for the field report.

Hey Sabaijai ... valuable contacts there ... keep 'em on your list of friends at all costs. You never know when you might need 'em

Don't worry, Doc, I'm hanging on to their namecards plus the mobile number of the chief internal auditor. She said if I ever had a problem to call her, and that when I go for PR, she'd do what she could to make it go smoothly.

One other bit of advice they gave me was to let someone at immigration review all my documents well before the December filing period. I hadn't realised that was an option, ie I figured they wouldn't want to waste time looking at any docs till you actually applied. Or perhaps they were offering this as a personal favour, they didn't specify which.

You've got a new career coming up. Permanent resident consultant to qualified taxpayers in the Kingdom.

[Dutchy]

I asked how many PR applications they receive in a typical year and after much discussion among the three they gave me a figure of 'roughly 2000'.

sabaijai, must have been an interesting weekend...thanks for the field report.

Hey Sabaijai ... valuable contacts there ... keep 'em on your list of friends at all costs. You never know when you might need 'em

Don't worry, Doc, I'm hanging on to their namecards plus the mobile number of the chief internal auditor. She said if I ever had a problem to call her, and that when I go for PR, she'd do what she could to make it go smoothly.

One other bit of advice they gave me was to let someone at immigration review all my documents well before the December filing period. I hadn't realised that was an option, ie I figured they wouldn't want to waste time looking at any docs till you actually applied. Or perhaps they were offering this as a personal favour, they didn't specify which.

You've got a new career coming up. Permanent resident consultant to qualified taxpayers in the Kingdom.

The number of PRs granted in the last couple of years has been extremely small, this is not likely to change under Toxin's regime. It's not a matter of fullfilling the requirements, it's the people you know. It's in other words an unfair process which doesn't do justice to a fair and transparent society.

I'm not convinced of the benefits of having PR, you'll need a workpermit anyway, you'll need exit and entry permission. I just spoke to someone with PR status and he was charged 200 baht at a national park, regardless of PR. "Foreigners pay 200 baht" He didn't think it was amusing... Why bother..?

Dutchy

[sabaijai]

You've got a new career coming up. Permanent resident consultant to qualified taxpayers in the Kingdom.

I need a new career, the old one is getting, well old ...

[sabaijai]

I'm not convinced of the benefits of having PR, you'll need a workpermit anyway, you'll need exit and entry permission. I just spoke to someone with PR status and he was charged 200 baht at a national park, regardless of PR. "Foreigners pay 200 baht" He didn't think it was amusing... Why bother..?

Well whether PR is worth it or not is a topic that has been chewed over before on thaivisa.com. It all depends on the individual's needs/expectations, I don't think you can make a blanket statement one way or the other.

Basically the only reason I need a work permit is to go with my non-B visa extensions year to year. If/when I get PR that won't be necessary, nor will the yearly visits to immigration, etc. Marriage and retirement visas also require yearly approval. With immigration becoming stricter by the year -- I've been watching this narrowing trend for nearly 30 years here -- and with fees on the increase (and no doubt there will be more in a few years), PR adds a level of security the renewable visas don't.

I've skated by on all kinds of visas for too long. One regret I have is that I didn't go for PR circa 1979 when it was relatively easy to get. Lastly, PR is the penultimate requirement for anyone desiring Thai citzenship. Another frequent topic of debate ...

[PvtDick]

Interesting report.  Lends a certain amount of credence to the standard farang line of thinking that the Thais only want rich foreigners here. 

Immigration authorities giving priority to individuals who might actual have something to contribute to society isn't exactly a novel idea, is it?

[PvtDick]

PS: the reason I applied for PR a few years ago is that I sensed that it was not going to get any easier or any cheaper in the future. Sure enough, less than six months after I applied, they announced that the fee was going up from 50K to nearly 200K.

I don't know if it is worth it for 200K, but I do think it has been worth it for 50K. I have an increased sense of security, and I do want to go for citizenship some day.

[samran]

The number of PRs granted in the last couple of years has been extremely small, this is not likely to change under Toxin's regime.

Dunno about that one, I just don't think that there is a lot of demand for PR's personally (given the time and cost involved), which is why overall numbers are small. I'm not a big fan of Dear Leader myself, but he did have a go with elite card which gave quasi PR, which we know promptly died a sad death.

It's not a matter of fullfilling the requirements, it's the people you know. It's in other words an unfair process which doesn't do justice to a fair and transparent society.

I think people are talking about going down to Suan Phlu and speaking to the case officers before making an application to make sure all is in order with the paper work.

Not to say connections don't help in Thailand, but I don't think they necessarily apply here. To use the example of my old boss (who has great connections including an ex TRT minister as a referee for his first application), his application was rejected on the basis of not having 3 years worth of tax returns.

From the sounds of it (so long as you have fufilled all of the requirements) the type of contribution you make to Thailand and the type of job you do has the greatest influence.

Immigration authorities giving priority to individuals who might actual have something to contribute to society isn't exactly a novel idea, is it?

Very true. I think this is the target market for all independent migrant/PR applicants, no matter where in the world you are talking about. I don't think thailand has an overall problem accepting highly skilled and productive foreigners.

[ovenman]

Interesting report.  Lends a certain amount of credence to the standard farang line of thinking that the Thais only want rich foreigners here.  

Immigration authorities giving priority to individuals who might actual have something to contribute to society isn't exactly a novel idea, is it?

No, this is not a novel idea but the implication is that the most important thing a foreigner has to contribute to Thai society is their money.

[PvtDick]

No, this is not a novel idea but the implication is that the most important thing a foreigner has to contribute to Thai society is their money.

Not when a teacher or aid worker is seen as being more desirable than a bar owner.

[samran]

A second unwritten factor they examine is whether the work you are doing at the time you request PR is beneficial to Thailand in some way. As examples they suggested a successful bar owner probably would be viewed in a potentially negative light, while someone involved in rural aid work or teaching would be more favourably viewed.

I am sure these aren't two highly paid occupations, especially in Thailand.

[samran]

same thoughts at the same time Pvt Dick!