More Killings In Southern Thailand

[Mid]

Secretary General of League of Arab States said they understand the cause of violence in the Deep South

well get them in , fcs .....................

nobody else claims too .

[Jai Dee]

PM visits officials in southern border provinces

The Prime Minister paid a visit to the officials working in the restive south.

Prime Minister Gen Surayud Chulanont, Minister of Interior Aree Wongarya (อารีย์ วงค์อารยะ), and Interim Royal Thai Police Commissioner General Seripisuth Themeyawes (เสรีพิสุทธิ์ เตมียาเวส ), have arrived at the southern border provinces today (April 20) to visit local police and military personnel. Prime Minister Gen Surayud said the visit is aimed in addressing welfare fund allocation and personnel shortage issues.

Prime Minister Gen Surayud then traveled to Sirinthorn Base in Yala province to receive operation reports from southern officials. The visiting delegate are scheduled to meet with the relatives of Ms. Patcharaporn Boonmas (พัชราภรณ์ บุญมาศ ), a victim of the southern insurgency.

Prime Minister Gen Surayud and delegates will also meet with representatives from the private sector, chamber of commerce, and federation of industries in Pattani province. Finally Gen Surayud will visit the Deputy Commander of the Narathiwat provincial police, Pol Col Noppadol Phuengsomon (นพดล เผือกโสมณ), who was greviously injured by a recent insurgent attack.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 20 April 2007

[Thaising]

SONGKHLA, April 19 (TNA) - Songkhla's Hat Yai business district, the crossroads of Thailand's busy tourism and trade relations with Malaysia to the South, has been deeply impacted by the unrest in the

southern border provinces during the past three years, according to Hat Yai-Songkhla Hoteliers Association chairman Somchart Pimthanapoonporn.

He urged the government to issue measures to help support the hoteliers, saying the private business sector could shoulder the burden from the bearish business no longer than the end of this year.

Mr. Somchart said three years of violence in Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat had negatively impacted the adjoining province of Songkhla quite strongly.

Continue here: http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=29008

Edited April 20, 2007 by Thaising

[Jai Dee]

Thailand rejects U.S. help to quell insurgency

Thailand's powerful army chief has rejected an American offer to help quell an Islamic insurgency in the country's south, saying his forces can cope with the situation that has claimed more than 2,000 lives in three years.

He said Thailand would nonetheless appreciate access to U.S. intelligence.

"Thailand appreciates the offer but we regard the situation in the southern region as an internal affair," Army Commander Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin told The Associated Press in an interview Thursday, maintaining that no international terrorists operate in the area.

"But we would appreciate it if the United States could provide assistance to us in the area of information since the United States has experience in the Middle East and Afghanistan," especially, he said, in how to track foreign financial contributions to the insurgents, he said.

The army commander was responding to comments by the U.S. special-operations commander for the Pacific who expressed concern about escalating violence in the region.

Maj. Gen. David Fridovich said on Wednesday that U.S. troops could help to train Thai forces to quell the insurgency, if Thai authorities asked for assistance.

No U.S. special-operations troops would fight in southern Thailand, but they could teach Thai troops how to apply a "softer touch" in gaining the support of local people and in isolating the insurgents.

"If there's an entree the Thai government gives us to help them with the southern issue, we'll gladly take it," Fridovich said on the sidelines of a special operations conference in Waikiki, Hawaii.

But he said the U.S. was not attempting to impose a military agenda on Thailand.

"It's for them to ask us, 'We think you might be able to help. What do you think you might be able to do for us?"' Fridovich said, adding that there had been no formal discussions between Thai and American military officials on the matter.

The violence in Thailand's three southern Muslim-majority provinces -- Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani -- has escalated in recent months with drive-by shootings and bombings occurring almost daily. In response, the government has recruited an additional 3,000 paramilitary rangers to beef up security in the area.

Human Rights Watch, however, warned against the use of paramilitary forces and government-backed village defense volunteers in fighting the insurgency.

The "growing reliance on abusive militias" has placed civilians at greater risk, the New York based group said in a statement Wednesday.

"These cases of deadly use of force show how dangerous it is for the government to arm and deploy poorly trained militia forces," Brad Adams, Asia director of Human Rights Watch, said.

The statement came after defense volunteers shot dead four Muslim youths on April 9. Thai army authorities said the volunteers acted in self-defense as they thought they were being attacked.

Muslims in the south have long complained that they are treated as second-class citizens in the Buddhist-dominated country, and are discriminated against when it comes to jobs and education

Source: AP - 20 April 2007

[Jai Dee]

PM travels South to boost official morale

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont Friday morning flew to Thailand's troubled far South to obtain first-hand reports on an ongoing government suppression drive against insurgents operating in the region and to boost the morale of officials posted there.

Accompanied by senior officials including Interior Minister Aree Wong-araya and national acting police

chief Pol. Gen. Sereepisuth Temiyaves, the prime minister during his one-day visit to the trouble-plagued region first hear current briefings on the status of the insurgency from military officials at the Sirindhorn camp in Yala province.

The prime minister will also visit the parents and relatives of Patcharapon Boonmat, a recent university graduate, who was shot and burned to death by Yala militants on April 11 which sparked anger, grief and protests not only to her relatives and local residents, but attracted wider attention.

Gen. Surayud will also meet leading businesspersons in the tri-provincial zones -- Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat -- at a venue in Pattani, and visit Pol. Col. Napadol Phueksomol, deputy commissioner of Narathiwat Provincial Police, hospitalised in critical condition in Hat Yai district of nearby Songkhla province.

Pol. Col. Napadol stepped on a booby trapped-bomb as he inspected a bombing site in a village of Narathiwat’s Tak Bai district on Wednesday. He has lost his left leg and sustained serious injuries to his left arm and left eye.

Gen. Surayud told journalists before departing Bangkok that he would review the welfare of police officers stationed in the restive South, and determine if there should be police reinforcements in the border area.

The prime minister is scheduled to return to Bangkok Friday night.

More than 2,100 people have been killed in the ongoing violence launched in the region since January 2004.

Source: TNA - 20 April 2007

[apetley]

Thailand rejects U.S. help to quell insurgency

No U.S. special-operations troops would fight in southern Thailand, but they could teach Thai troops how to apply a "softer touch" in gaining the support of local people and in isolating the insurgents.

Source: AP - 20 April 2007

Judging by how successful they have been using their 'softer' touch in Iraq I can only agree with Thailands turning down of this particular offer.

[Jai Dee]

Surayud pushes amnesty in South

PM wants to draw militants back into 'legal fold' in hope of restoring peace

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont has asked officials to explore the possibility of granting an amnesty to militants in the Malay-speaking South as part of a government strategy to restore peace in the Muslim-majority region, which has been plagued by more than three years of almost daily killings and violence.

"At the policy level, I have no objection," Surayud told reporters. "I want the issue to be clearly discussed at the local level and accepted by all parties concerned. The government is ready to enact the [amnesty] law in the future."

Surayud said the goal was to draw the insurgents back into the country's "legal fold".

If approved, the amnesty would be the first time such a law had been implemented since the early 1980s - at the height of the Cold War - when the government granted a blanket amnesty to members of the Communist Party of Thailand in return for surrender.

The same was also applicable to Malay separatists operating in the deep South at around the same time.

The move crippled the military wings of various groups, such as the Patani United Liberation Organisation (Pulo) and Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN), and sent their leaders into exile in Malaysia and Europe.

The proposed amnesty would be aimed at a new generation of Malay-Muslim militants who surfaced on the scene in late 2001. The government did not officially acknowledge their presence until the January 4, 2004 raid on an army battalion in Joh I Rong, Narathiwat, when militants made off with nearly 400 heavy weapons.

An amnesty would guarantee that the surrendered insurgents would not face further legal charges for their participation in the insurgency, which has claimed more than 2,000 lives since January 2004.

The premier was in the deep South yesterday to inspect the region and obtain a first-hand briefing about the situation from officials on the ground.

Fourth Army Region commander Lt-General Viroj Buacharoon, who discussed the idea with the Prime Minister during a briefing at a military camp in Yala, said the amnesty would encourage low-level militants and sympathisers who were forced to join the insurgency to surrender to the government.

"Many militants were forced to commit terror acts against their will. They cannot run away from the insurgent movement unless the government provides legal protection for their return," he said.

"It's like the students who joined the communist insurgents in the 1970s," Viroj added. "We received massive defections after an amnesty in the early 1980s, resulting in our victory over the communists."

However, the amnesty would not cover those who committed serious crimes in accordance with the penal code, such as premeditated murder, Viroj said.

A government source said Prime Minister Surayud has consulted with the Justice Ministry and the Council of State—the government's legal advisory agency— as to how and when to issue the amnesty.

Surayud wants the amnesty to come into force during his administration, the source said.

Source: The Nation - 21 April 2007

[Jai Dee]

Thai Military Fears Insurgents New Bombing Strategy in Restive South

Muslim insurgents in Thailand's restive south have developed a new strategy for targeting authorities and civilians with bomb blasts, a technique that maimed its first victim earlier this week, the army spokesman said Friday.

A high-ranking police official lost an arm and leg Wednesday after stepping on a bomb buried in the dirt as he inspected the site of an earlier bombing in Narathiwat province.

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont visited the officer in the hospital Friday, as part of a mission to boost morale among police stationed in Thailand's three Muslim-dominated southern provinces where an insurgency has killed more than 2,000 people.

Bombs explode almost daily in the restive region, where violence flared in 2004.

Until now, suspected insurgents have triggered the explosives by mobile phones, clocks or electrical wires but Wednesday's explosion used a different type of trigger that was activated when the officer stepped on it, said army spokesman Col Akara Thiprot, the army spokesman.

"The insurgents have developed a new tactic for triggering bombs to escape the authorities' control," Akara said, noting that the new technique allows insurgents to circumvent attempts by authorities to block mobile phone signals.

Akara said that the authorities had defused two other similar devices in recent months.

He said the military would begin using mine detectors when inspecting bomb sites in the future.

Surayud traveled to the region Friday with national police chief Gen Seriphisut Temiyawej to investigate problems faced by police working in the insurgency-plagued area, government spokesman Yongyuth Maiyalarb said.

While there is a regular rotation of soldiers through the area, police are expected to take permanent postings. The insurgents frequently target people they consider to be government collaborators, especially teachers, soldiers and police.

After arriving in the south, Surayud reiterated that the insurgency was a domestic matter and Thailand did not need help from the United States to quell the violence.

The comments came a day after army commander Gen Sonthi Boonyaratglin rejected an American offer to help train Thai forces to stem the violence.

The US special operations commander for the Pacific, Maj-Gen David Fridovich, said Wednesday that US troops were available if Thai authorities asked for assistance.

When Surayud took office in October following a September coup, he pledged to make peace in the south a priority and to moderate the previous government's iron-fisted policies that critics said had fueled the insurgency. But the violence has continued unabated and bombings and drive-by shootings are an almost daily occurrence.

In the latest violence, a 76-year-old Buddhist man was severely injured early Friday in a drive-by shooting in Narathiwat's Rue So district and a public school was burnt down in the same district. A bomb blast Thursday night in Yala's Muang district injured four paramilitary rangers.

Source: The Irrawaddy - 21 April 2007

[Jai Dee]

Thai PM wants insurgents on camera

Thailand's prime minister says he wants to install more closed circuit television cameras across the three southern provinces, which are being wracked by rising levels of violence.

Our South-east Asia correspondent, Karen Percy, reports that during a visit to the southern provinces of Narathiwat, Yala and Pattani, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said that more CCTV cameras were needed across the region to monitor the movements of insurgents.

There are daily attacks on security forces and Buddhist and Muslim civilians as the century-old separatist dispute escalates.

The government has at least 25-thousand soldiers in the area, as well as thousands more volunteer forces.

This week, Human Rights Watch reported that these poorly-trained civilians misused their weapons and their authority, and were contributing to the attacks.

Prime Minister Surayud says the military, civilian groups and the police need to work more closely together.

Source: Radio Australia - 21 April 2007

[Johpa]

For what it is worth, Bangkok Pundit's blog has an excellent amd thought provoking recent entry on violence in the south.

[marshbags]

The military is digging in a deeper hole trying to solve the crisis in the South

Are they seriously trying to solve the problem or are they just incapable?

Yes they are trying and the " Organisation of Islamic Conference " think they are capable long term.

Where ever you have insurgents it is always very difficult to contain them

All over the globe and not only applicable to Thailand and it is well recognised, not least of all by all the major powers.

B.Post BREAKING NEWS 17:26PM 27-04-2007

Quote:-

PM: OIC agrees with govt's handling of unrest

(BangkokPost.com) - Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said Friday the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) agreed with the government's peaceful handling of the southern unrest.

Gen Surayud said Secretary-general of OIC Ekmeleddin Ishanolgu who was scheduled to visit Thailand next week supported the government's overall policy in solving the unrest by using peaceful means.

Unquote.

Please go to the url for the rest of the Breaking News story:-

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=118381

How anyone can under estimate what is being done in peaceful terms now and what was happening under the provocative stance of the TRT regime is mis judging the situation completely in terms of their achievements.

We now have insurgents AND third parties with nothing to do with Islamic agendas ??? bent on causing chaos to boot for purely political purposes.

marshbags

Edited April 27, 2007 by marshbags

[Jai Dee]

Warning of major attack

Intelligence agencies warn that militants may try to mark third anniversary of Krue Se; Sonthi downplays fears

Two people were killed and at least five people injured in separate explosions in the deep South yesterday as authorities beefed up security after warning of new violence during the third anniversary of the bloody uprising at the historic Krue Se Mosque.

The first bomb went off at about 6am in Narathiwat's Tak Bai district, injuring a grandmother and grandson as they prepared food for sale at a roadside shop.

Neay Kongsamret, 68, was in serious condition, while Pornchai Kongsamret, 14, was slightly injured.

Police said militants might have hidden the bomb overnight as an eyewitness had seen a few men near the site the previous evening during a heavy rainstorm.

Another bomb exploded at around 1pm at a cockpit, also in Tak Bai district, injuring three people, including two women who were selling food.

In neighbouring Yala province's Raman district a roadside bomb went off but missed the target as a group of soldiers on patrol had already passed by.

In Pattani's Yarang district two gunmen on motorcycles shot a husband and wife, Chaiyan Siriwat, 43, and his wife, Sunan Suwan, 43, on the Pattani-Yala Road.

Killings have taken place on a daily basis since the beginning of 2004, and more than 2,000 people have been murdered so far as the government struggles to contain the violence.

Intelligence agencies issued a warning of a possible major incident today as militants might create trouble to commemorate the bloody uprising on April 28, 2004 when 32 militants were killed at the historic mosque of Krue Se.

In Bangkok Army chief Sonthi Boonyaratglin said there would be no major incident today as the uprising was "not important" for the insurgency movement. Many militants "used only knives" to fight with well-equipped soldiers.

Source: The Nation - 28 April 2007

[marshbags]

B.Post.. Breaking News.. 28-04-2007

Quote:-

Authorities prepare for OIC visit

(dpa) - The head of the Organisation of Islamic Conference will visit Thailand next week to assess the escalating insurgency raging in the country's majority-Muslim deep South, reports said Saturday.

Thai Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont will meet OIC Secretary General Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu on Monday to brief him on the government's efforts to solve the conflict, which has claimed more than 2,100 lives since January 2003, when it took a more violent turn, the state-run Thai News Aegncy (TNA) said.

Thailand has observer status in the 57-member OIC, the world's leading Muslim organization.

A six-member OIC delegation plans to be in the kingdom from Monday to Wednesday at the invitation of the foreign ministry.

Unquote.

Please go to the url for the complete B.News article:-

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=118394

I am highlighting what i consider is another deserving statement regarding the good intentions of the present administration and YES they are and have been trying all peaceful means possible to solve this tragical situation.

Thailand, which has adopted a "conciliatory" approach to the insurgency since Surayud came to power on October 1, 2006, maintains that the conflict is not a religious one, but rather the outgrowth of an on-going separatist struggle that has simmered in the area for the past six decades.

In spite of everything that has been done to incite chaos they have not retaliated.

So many innocent lives being lost, it makes me very sad for all those effected, what ever their creed may be.

The unjust attacks and horrendous consequences on people under the cover of alledged religious beliefs is evil and couldn,t be further from truth. IMHO

marshbags

[ColPyat]

In spite of everything that has been done to incite chaos they have not retaliated.

That is not exactly true. The security forces do their utmost to be able to retaliate. The only problem is that the insurgents are evading open conflict, use bombs and ambushes against security forces, and the only way how the security forces could retaliate is by summary executions of known suspects without due process.

That though would escalate the situation, and is the last thing the government would want.

Fact is that the government is trying out many different strategies according to the different locations, but most were not very successful yet. The insurgents so far have the initiative, are leading, and the government has not yet found an answer.

[marshbags]

In spite of everything that has been done to incite chaos they have not retaliated.

That is not exactly true. The security forces do their utmost to be able to retaliate. The only problem is that the insurgents are evading open conflict, use bombs and ambushes against security forces, and the only way how the security forces could retaliate is by summary executions of known suspects without due process.

That though would escalate the situation, and is the last thing the government would want.

Fact is that the government is trying out many different strategies according to the different locations, but most were not very successful yet. The insurgents so far have the initiative, are leading, and the government has not yet found an answer.

Well done C.P. , I do not know if it,s intentional or not but.......i think your last paragraph is actually recognising the governments willingness to explore various ways of solving this problem.

I also think you could be nit picking on your first one when you refer to part of my post as you quote.

I could have easily made a more ambigous statement but after thinking about it thought others would not, on the whole when comparing their record, find fault regarding unreasonable retalliation.

It is of course a global issue and their are many countries trying to achieve what is a unified objective to rid humanity of these evildoers who use religion as an excuse to murder and maim innocents, who want nothing more than to be useful members of society and live in peace.

Insurgents are not rebelling against just causes or unreasonable governments in the main and in my opinion should not be given such a title as this perversely gives them creditablity in being labelled as such, along with their self appointed so called repectable objectives.

Murder, voilence and chaos are all they are intersted in, with no other motives in mind what so ever, Period !!!!!

So perhaps you can find something that is not verbose to describe them ?????

They are nothing more than murderous, evildoers who have no respect for life what so ever.

I personally cannot think of a one word title that is adequate to describe them and their inhuman actions.

They are a plague that is spreading all over the world and if they are NOT exterminated, civilisation is doomed to an unknown hel_l and self destruction.

IMO of course.

marshbags

Edited April 29, 2007 by marshbags

[younghusband]

The military is digging in a deeper hole trying to solve the crisis in the South

Are they seriously trying to solve the problem or are they just incapable?

Yes they are trying and the " Organisation of Islamic Conference " think they are capable long term.

Where ever you have insurgents it is always very difficult to contain them

All over the globe and not only applicable to Thailand and it is well recognised, not least of all by all the major powers.

B.Post BREAKING NEWS 17:26PM 27-04-2007

Quote:-

PM: OIC agrees with govt's handling of unrest

(BangkokPost.com) - Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said Friday the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) agreed with the government's peaceful handling of the southern unrest.

Gen Surayud said Secretary-general of OIC Ekmeleddin Ishanolgu who was scheduled to visit Thailand next week supported the government's overall policy in solving the unrest by using peaceful means.

Unquote.

Please go to the url for the rest of the Breaking News story:-

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=118381

How anyone can under estimate what is being done in peaceful terms now and what was happening under the provocative stance of the TRT regime is mis judging the situation completely in terms of their achievements.

We now have insurgents AND third parties with nothing to do with Islamic agendas ??? bent on causing chaos to boot for purely political purposes.

marshbags

It's always difficult to know how to respond to your posts because there is no malice in your approach and I think you are that rare commodity, a good man.I also sense you have been profoundly moved by the morally reprehensible drugs war led by Thaksin.This is to your credit.Nevertheless because of your obsession with Thaksin's invisible hand you have voiced a profoundly misguided interpretation on the background to the Southern violence, as summarised in your final sentence.May I suggest you follow the link in Johpa's last post and read the background very carefully.

[ColPyat]

In spite of everything that has been done to incite chaos they have not retaliated.

That is not exactly true. The security forces do their utmost to be able to retaliate. The only problem is that the insurgents are evading open conflict, use bombs and ambushes against security forces, and the only way how the security forces could retaliate is by summary executions of known suspects without due process.

That though would escalate the situation, and is the last thing the government would want.

Fact is that the government is trying out many different strategies according to the different locations, but most were not very successful yet. The insurgents so far have the initiative, are leading, and the government has not yet found an answer.

Well done C.P. , I do not know if it,s intentional or not but.......i think your last paragraph is actually recognising the governments willingness to explore various ways of solving this problem.

I also think you could be nit picking on your first one when you refer to part of my post as you quote.

I could have easily made a more ambigous statement but after thinking about it thought others would not, on the whole when comparing their record, find fault regarding unreasonable retalliation.

It is of course a global issue and their are many countries trying to achieve what is a unified objective to rid humanity of these evildoers who use religion as an excuse to murder and maim innocents, who want nothing more than to be useful members of society and live in peace.

Insurgents are not rebelling against just causes or unreasonable governments in the main and in my opinion should not be given such a title as this perversely gives them creditablity in being labelled as such, along with their self appointed so called repectable objectives.

Murder, voilence and chaos are all they are intersted in, with no other motives in mind what so ever, Period !!!!!

So perhaps you can find something that is not verbose to describe them ?????

They are nothing more than murderous, evildoers who have no respect for life what so ever.

I personally cannot think of a one word title that is adequate to describe them and their inhuman actions.

They are a plague that is spreading all over the world and if they are NOT exterminated, civilisation is doomed to an unknown hel_l and self destruction.

IMO of course.

marshbags

I don't know how i shall respond to your post other than suggesting you to read some background on this insurgency, and the rest of the worldwide insurgencies in Islamic countries. Things area lot more complicated than you describe, and in the past (and maybe now, but we will find that out only in a few decades) they have had support from some very surprising quarters. I do not support their ideology or violent tactics, but i do recognize that many of their accusations against the states they are fighting against are partly justified.

And yes, i intended to make the point that the government is exploring many options. The Thaksin government did so as well. None worked so far. Thaksin's biggest mistake is now seen that he pulled the army out and let the police take over responsibility. But, there was reason behind this. High ranking members of the military have been over decades involved in large scale underground businesses there, but also had at that time a high level of knowledge of what was going on on the ground. I can only suspect that Thaksin has tried to break up this very unholy alliance, but has underestimated the level of discontent and willingness to fight under the insurgent groups.

But would the insurgency have happened even if Thaksin would not have made this decision? I have no idea.

I have been down there several times, and partly in the thick of it. It's easy to sit on the computer in Bangkok, or wherever, and write statements about everything what goes on down there. The more i am going down there the less clue i have of what really is going on there. It is very confusing, very murky, and absolutely terrible. The only thing i know is that key information to come to an understanding of the situation is withheld from us all, by all sides.

You cannot believe anything, or anybody.

Edited April 29, 2007 by ColPyat

[hammered]

With yesterdays machine gunning of the Krue sae mosque on the anniversary of the massacre while police sat within 100m and a another bombing of a Muslim target, we are likely moving into another stage of this conflict as it escalates. imho.

Like some others from what I know I would say it is desperately hard to analyse exactly what is going on and would go so far as to say different players have different motives, aims and rationales for what they do. There will be no easy answer to this one.

[Naam]

Murder, voilence and chaos are all they are intersted in, with no other motives in mind what so ever, Period !!!!!

They are nothing more than murderous, evildoers who have no respect for life what so ever.

They are a plague that is spreading all over the world and if they are NOT exterminated, civilisation is doomed to an unknown hel_l and self destruction.

SIEG HEIL! the new version of Germany's "The Jews are our doom. THEY HAVE TO BE ERADICATED!"

let's start to build thousands of Auschwitz, Treblinka and Bergen-Belsen for the "final muslim solution". after all this time it's not a small job to "exterminate" 1.5 billion human beings.

[hammered]

Murder, voilence and chaos are all they are intersted in, with no other motives in mind what so ever, Period !!!!!

They are nothing more than murderous, evildoers who have no respect for life what so ever.

They are a plague that is spreading all over the world and if they are NOT exterminated, civilisation is doomed to an unknown hel_l and self destruction.

SIEG HEIL! the new version of Germany's "The Jews are our doom. THEY HAVE TO BE ERADICATED!"

let's start to build thousands of Auschwitz, Treblinka and Bergen-Belsen for the "final muslim solution". after all this time it's not a small job to "exterminate" 1.5 billion human beings.

It is unfortunate that there seems to be a rising tide of anti-Muslim feeling across at least the western world. Unfortunately this is so often fed by our very own western govenrments with their polices. Few of us seem to be able to sit down for one minute and try to imagine what it is like being a poor muslim at the receiving end of our polices.

At the moment the Thai goevrnment at least do not seem to be taking this western route of totally alienating Muslim people.

[younghusband]

It is unfortunate that there seems to be a rising tide of anti-Muslim feeling across at least the western world. Unfortunately this is so often fed by our very own western govenrments with their polices. Few of us seem to be able to sit down for one minute and try to imagine what it is like being a poor muslim at the receiving end of our polices.

At the moment the Thai goevrnment at least do not seem to be taking this western route of totally alienating Muslim people.

The problems of poor Muslims generally arise from their own corrupt and incompetent leadership.Don't take the mindless approach of blaming all the problems of the Muslim world on Western policies.Read "What went wrong" by the great scholar of Islam, Bernard Lewis to get a better perspective.And why don't you take a minute to consider what it was like for the thousands of victims in the Twin Towers being "on the receiving end" of Al-Quaeda policy.

And as for Southern Thailand, why do you let the Thai government off so easily? What exactly do the crimes committed by both sides in the South have to do with western policies?

Edited April 29, 2007 by younghusband

[marshbags]

Murder, voilence and chaos are all they are intersted in, with no other motives in mind what so ever, Period !!!!!

They are nothing more than murderous, evildoers who have no respect for life what so ever.

They are a plague that is spreading all over the world and if they are NOT exterminated, civilisation is doomed to an unknown hel_l and self destruction.

SIEG HEIL! the new version of Germany's "The Jews are our doom. THEY HAVE TO BE ERADICATED!"

let's start to build thousands of Auschwitz, Treblinka and Bergen-Belsen for the "final muslim solution". after all this time it's not a small job to "exterminate" 1.5 billion human beings.

The jews were persecuted purely because the infamous Hitler hated them and not because the were murderous, evildoers.

How you can compare their tragical situation and the reason why many thousands of innocent families died is beyond my comprehension.

I get sick day after day of seeing news items from all over the globe showing terrible scenes of overwhelming suffering for no justification.

The animals that carry out these atrocities in the name of religion, political agendas and greed ect. ect. need to be stopped and if peaceful means cannot achieve this then sadly they need to be stopped be other methods.

Perhaps i should say that the doctrine that they follow and carry out their evil doing by should be eradicated and the beliefs that are financed and instigated from fanatics in high places, needs to be exterminated as in destroyed by the way !!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no political bais / interest in the objectives of any particular party, religion or whatever on this matter other than the use of innocent human beings and a will to basically destroy human kind.

This IMO is totally unaceptable.

If someone is a good, considerate, polite person then we should welcome them with open arms, as i have all my life.

Colour, Creed, Status, Sexuality, Rich, Poor, Educated, Illiterate ( and not in a a demeaning way ) ect. ect. ect.

It Doesn,t Matter One Iota.

Should we not get on with someone then we either find middle ground or just go our seperate ways, no problem.

I realise this is not a perfect world and certain conflicts are unachievable by peaceful means, but how i wish it was so.

Live and let live seems an apt quote / solution.

I am not banging my drum by the way, just basically applying my personal philosophy as i see it on the subject matter in this instance.

marshbags

P.S.

I do not see anything wrong in " incarceration " if it keeps them out of harms way and prevents them from doing these evil deeds.

Just to read you quote the above camps of evil suffering and comparing what i,ve posted to effectively say i am advocating the same as a final solution for Muslims, is offensive in the extreme and counter productive to all our objectives.

True Muslims will be equally offended.

Edited April 29, 2007 by marshbags

[A_Traveller]

The problems of poor Muslims generally arise from their own corrupt and incompetent leadership.Don't take the mindless approach of blaming all the problems of the Muslim world on Western policies.Read "What went wrong" by the great scholar of Islam, Bernard Lewis to get a better perspective.And why don't you take a minute to consider what it was like for the thousands of victims in the Twin Towers being "on the receiving end" of Al-Quaeda policy.

And as for Southern Thailand, why do you let the Thai government off so easily? What exactly do the crimes committed by both sides in the South have to do with western policies?

On the Bernard Lewis point, whilst I respect his scholarship, he was after all allowed access to the Caliphate Archives, in Istanbul, {his specialty by the by, not Muslim [nor modern Muslim] Society as a whole} one should also note that he was a key element in the advisory panel after 9/11 and was a strong advocate for the, "Muslims only understand a show of force" perspective.

He and others offered those who sought a belligerent course a patina of academic reasoning. [i.e. National Review Dec 2001].

Regards

[ColPyat]

The problems of poor Muslims generally arise from their own corrupt and incompetent leadership.Don't take the mindless approach of blaming all the problems of the Muslim world on Western policies.Read "What went wrong" by the great scholar of Islam, Bernard Lewis to get a better perspective.And why don't you take a minute to consider what it was like for the thousands of victims in the Twin Towers being "on the receiving end" of Al-Quaeda policy.

And as for Southern Thailand, why do you let the Thai government off so easily? What exactly do the crimes committed by both sides in the South have to do with western policies?

Don't forget though that many of those corrupt governments are very much supported by the west, and the US in particular. The US support of the 'Mudjaheddin' in Afghanistan during the 80s was instrumental in the development of todays problems, and more than a few also question the Saudi - US oil relationship. Pakistan has all along been main partner of the US in the South Asian region, even though Pakistan is maybe the biggest supporter of present fundamentalist terrorism.

The problems today in South Thailand have nothing really to do with western political influence, other than that Muslims (and not just Muslims) are enraged about the present conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq. These problems here are home grown, and i do hope that they can find a solution before the situations turns truly international.

Edited April 29, 2007 by ColPyat

[ColPyat]

I get sick day after day of seeing news items from all over the globe showing terrible scenes of overwhelming suffering for no justification.

Well, lots of innocent blood has been spilled by the west as well in the present wars. I don't think that both sides in these terrible wars are much better than the other.

And one of the big problems to any peaceful solution in all of those insurgencies inspired by Islam is exactly that the most powerful western nations are committing very similar crimes against humanity as the enemy they fight against. What's the difference between a poor hostage being beheaded and a Iraqi civilian killed by carpet bombing?

I am sick and tired of the wars in general, and both sides who can't seem to find a peaceful solution of coexistence, and who try to blackmail the rest of humanity into an either 'you are for me or you are against me' position.

[plachon]

I get sick day after day of seeing news items from all over the globe showing terrible scenes of overwhelming suffering for no justification.

Well, lots of innocent blood has been spilled by the west as well in the present wars. I don't think that both sides in these terrible wars are much better than the other.

And one of the big problems to any peaceful solution in all of those insurgencies inspired by Islam is exactly that the most powerful western nations are committing very similar crimes against humanity as the enemy they fight against. What's the difference between a poor hostage being beheaded and a Iraqi civilian killed by carpet bombing?

I am sick and tired of the wars in general, and both sides who can't seem to find a peaceful solution of coexistence, and who try to blackmail the rest of humanity into an either 'you are for me or you are against me' position.

For a change, I find myself agreeing with you on this 100 %.

Bush and Blair's pretence about being concerned with Al Quaeda and Muslim extremism when justifying their decision to invade Iraq has not only proved false, but absolutely counter-productive in the extreme and fuelled the flames of the very thing they set out to control.

A parallel could be drawn with southern Thailand, where a low-level insurgency and historical mistrust of the State by Southerners up until early 2004 has been whipped up into a full-on near-revolt and insurrection, by first Thaksin's heavy handed attempts at control, mis-management and mis-guided policies, which have helped give the violent element the conditions and sympathy needed to wreak chaos. The raid on the army base where 400 or so weapons went missing, was I believe the turning point.

It's now hard to see how either externally generated messes can be solved peacefully and amicably by the extremists running the shows at each end.

[Naam]

Perhaps i should say that the doctrine that they follow and carry out their evil doing by should be eradicated and the beliefs that are financed and instigated from fanatics in high places, needs to be exterminated as in destroyed by the way !!!!!!!!!!!!

that sounds completely different and reasonable.

[marshbags]

Nevertheless because of your obsession with Thaksin's invisible hand you have voiced a profoundly misguided interpretation on the background to the Southern violence, as summarised in your final sentence.May I suggest you follow the link in Johpa's last post and read the background very carefully.

The above is part of a quote by Y.H. that i have edited for to be more consice and this is the most relevant of two parts i wish to reply to and is 100% on topic.

I mentioned the TRT and Thaksin for comparisons on their aggressive stance against this problem as a comparison against the present one.

Regarding the last government

I did not witness anything genuinely concilitary being offered to calm the situation during the worsening of it and on the contrary they in fact only agitated it and thus the violence escalated further and just encouraged the terrorists to become more active.

Their is so much documented evidence and lots of it was shown via the news media of both the press and the T.V. stations, along with Int. Human Rights observations and as in the EJK the CEO blatantly choosing to ignore them in a most arrogant manner.

Regarding the present government

By comparison

The present one have and are continuing to offer concilitary gestures and while their record is not perfect i consider this approach on the problem in recent times as a far more peaceful one.

I also think that certain questionable tactics adopted by the present administration are more to do with their attempts to find a solution and some are obviously mis judged.

Nothing on the scale of escalation of before can their actions be compared as similar when you consider the statistics / numbers and the two approaches to finding a peaceful solution, long term.

At the end of the day, if they are found to be wanting on H.R. Issues and recommendations to address them are in turn dismissed out of hand, then they of course will rightly be taken to task in a similar fashion.

I am not bias one way or the other when it,s a question of indiscriminate killing and the disappearance of Thailands citizens ( or anywhere else come to that. )

Politicians are not if i may borrow a now famous term from the U.K made of " Teflon. " in this 21st century and are accountable accordingly, no matter who they are !!!!

Regarding the E. J. Killings you graciously commented on, this is a seperate issue in as much as they could have been stopped almost immediately when it became apparent what was going on and it was ignored by the one person who had the power to halt it immediately via his total control of the agenda.

Instead of taking this humane initiative Thaksin chose to use it for political advantages and self promotion as a wise and no nonsense leader.

Their is one common denominator in these two horrific situations that link them together from his perspective and that is his arrogancy and insensitivity to loss of innocent life and suffering that he could have eased on a large scale, big time.

How different his legacy in all this sorrow could have been, but then again the victims were expendable and unimportant human collateral as he saw it all.

How wrong he was ???????

Shame instead of his much desired Fame is his only recognition out of it all instead of being seen as a wise and so called self appointed World Leader, !!!!!!!

I hope i can mention the last part in reference to a common denominator, thread wise and that is the human rights implications.

marshbags

Edited April 30, 2007 by marshbags

[marshbags]

Perhaps i should say that the doctrine that they follow and carry out their evil doing by should be eradicated and the beliefs that are financed and instigated from fanatics in high places, needs to be exterminated as in destroyed by the way !!!!!!!!!!!!

that sounds completely different and reasonable.

Thanks Dr.Naam, some times my inexperience from an elequence, written / point of view sometimes fails me.

I apologise for it as and when it happens to cause misunderstanding from my lack of it.

marshbags

[ColPyat]

Regarding the last government

I did not witness anything genuinely concilitary being offered to calm the situation during the worsening of it and on the contrary they in fact only agitated it and thus the violence escalated further and just encouraged the terrorists to become more active.

Their is so much documented evidence and lots of it was shown via the news media of both the press and the T.V. stations, along with Int. Human Rights observations and as in the EJK the CEO blatantly choosing to ignore them in a most arrogant manner.

I would not be too fixed on what you have witnessed. As you said - you have witnessed this only through second and third hand information through outlets that anyhow do not get full access, and where information does get often filtered through people and positions before it reaches the reader.

Things generally are more complex than you are made to believe.

Everything you believe the Thaksin government has done wrong also leaves open a few question (which i cannot give you an answer for).

Was Thaksin's decision to pull out the military really responsible for the escalation, or would it have happened anyhow and regardless?

Was Thaksin really that heavy handed, or were the tactics employed in Tak Bai more the mistakes of local military officers?

What really happened at the Kru Sue incident? There are two very valid positions there, and none are linked to Thaksin, but are strategic considerations. The local commander who has overridden the government order to use a soft approach has made this decision to storm the mosque because it turned evening and a mob started to appear, and he feared that the situation would get out of hand. I haven't been there, so i cannot really judge if storming was the correct decision or not.

You should not forget that the Thaksin government has also held several rounds of initial talks with some insurgent groups, brokered by Mahatir, which have unfortunately not led anywhere. The present government has also not been exactly successful yet with their approach.

Things in the South are in a constant flux, and even expert opinions differ widely on even the basics.

We do not know yet what course the events will take there, and how the government will respond. Their present approach so far has not shown any positive results yet, and they are still mostly reacting to the initiative of the insurgents. It might very well turn more violent soon.

Both under Thaksin and under the present government there were no systematical human rights violations such as in Burma, but there were and still are incidents of clear human rights violation by the security forces. Which is somewhat understandable in the conditions down there (don't mistake me - i do not support Human Rights violations, i just try to explain the background). The security forces down there are increasingly frustrated with this war, they get attacked without being able to retaliate. They see suspected insurgents every day without being able to do much against them without the courts having enough evidence.

I don't have any answers for you, and nobody has.

But i believe you simplify a very complex situation and make a few too quick conclusions about something that is almost impossible to understand, especially from the distance (and close up you only understand that it is very confusing). You should not forget that the present government is under intense pressure to make improvements, and being equipped with powers over the medias that Thaksin did not have, some part of the positive news about the government tactics might very well derive from this.

On the ground i believe that changes in the situation do not have their origin in changed government approaches, but in changed insurgent strategies.

And there one thing is very clear - in the last couple of months the situation has deteriorated badly, and very likely will continue do do so for a considerable time.

Edited April 30, 2007 by ColPyat