Just now, sanemax said:

No one has claimed that the Gibraltar secret service were the main players in this story 

Try telling that to Basil. 555

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

Who else could have done it? even the Iranians have not come up with a plausible explanation as to who else would atack oil tankers off their coast. 

The MEK ? It would suit the agenda of all but Iran Govt.

There's one easy way to settle the arguing over whether the ship was seized for violating the sanction on Iranian oil exports imposed by, and at the request of, the US, or, as the Gibraltan's claim, because it may have been about to violate EU sanctions on supplying oil to Syria (Thought crime, anyone?)  Allow the ship to sail to a non EU sanctioned Mediterranean port, or to another location away from the Mediterranean, and sell its oil there.

Edited July 5, 20197 yr by ballpoint

12 minutes ago, petemoss said:

The video of the removal of the mine from the ship's hull showed a boat with several crew. There was no indication that the crew or the boat were Iranian other than the US administration claimed it whilst offering zero evidence of their claim. In fact the crew were dressed in garb that you would normally associate with Arabs (as in Saudis) rather than Iranians. Also, why remove a mine? Because they wanted to cause relatively minimum damage to one of their own vessels. Would the Iranians have done this?

 

The crew were rescued by Iranians, the White House claimed that they had been taken hostage as a rescue by Iranians didn't fit their narrative. This was proved to be completely false. Just more White House propaganda, which many claim was the root of the whole incident.

doh! Why remove a mine? Because the POS didn't go bang and was easily identifiable as being Iranian, right down to its lack of reliability and the 'Made in Iran' printed on it.

 

The patrol boat was easily identified as Iranian, and I don't care what colour headrags were worn, Iranian patrol boats are usually manned by bloody Iranians.

2 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Yes...

Nether seen how easy it is to track a ship?

https://www.myshiptracking.com/

Someone should show that to the US navy.  I'm surprised this tanker managed to sail so far without one of their boats blundering into it.

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

Who else could have done it? even the Iranians have not come up with a plausible explanation as to who else would atack oil tankers off their coast. 

Have you never seen Tomorrow never Dies ? ????

 

4 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

doh! Why remove a mine? Because the POS didn't go bang and was easily identifiable as being Iranian, right down to its lack of reliability and the 'Made in Iran' printed on it.

 

The patrol boat was easily identified as Iranian, and I don't care what colour headrags were worn, Iranian patrol boats are usually manned by bloody Iranians.

Based on exactly zero facts or evidence other than the White House says so. What is Trump's lies/day ratio?

18 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No one has claimed that the Gibraltar secret service were the main players in this story 

Guess you missed post #8 and his contention that the Gibraltar Secret Service tracked the ship from Teheran.

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

Who else could have done it? even the Iranians have not come up with a plausible explanation as to who else would atack oil tankers off their coast. 

There are plenty of plausible explanations. Not saying they're true but plausible. We know that the UAW manufactured an incident to justify the break in relations with Qatar. And ya think MbS is too principled to manufacture an incident?

What some overenthusiastic posters have lost sight of is that this was an Iranian tanker taking it cargo to Syria. It was not a foreign tanker taking Iranian oil to, say China. And there are lots of Chinese tankers doing just that.

3 hours ago, petemoss said:

The video of the removal of the mine from the ship's hull showed a boat with several crew. There was no indication that the crew or the boat were Iranian other than the US administration claimed it whilst offering zero evidence of their claim. In fact the crew were dressed in garb that you would normally associate with Arabs (as in Saudis) rather than Iranians. Also, why remove a mine? Because they wanted to cause relatively minimum damage to one of their own vessels. Would the Iranians have done this?

 

The crew were rescued by Iranians, the White House claimed that they had been taken hostage as a rescue by Iranians didn't fit their narrative. This was proved to be completely false. Just more White House propaganda, which many claim was the root of the whole incident.

Totally agree.

I would add that the attack on a Japanese oil tanker occurred on the very day that the Japanese PM was visiting Iran.

 

5 hours ago, petemoss said:

Well in the sense that Britain's action was taken at the request of the US, not the EU, it has.

 

Here we go again, the UK doing the US's dirty work for it. Expect much more when Boris becomes PM.

 

Boris Johnson = Trump's lapdog.

Call me cynical if you like, but some would regard a tanker of somebody else's oil as a cheap price to pay for the promise of a lucrative post-Brexit trade deal with the US. 

6 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Call me cynical if you like, but some would regard a tanker of somebody else's oil as a cheap price to pay for the promise of a lucrative post-Brexit trade deal with the US. 

True if trump could be Trusted to keep his word. Unfortunately, he regularly proves that he can't.

27 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Call me cynical if you like, but some would regard a tanker of somebody else's oil as a cheap price to pay for the promise of a lucrative post-Brexit trade deal with the US. 

Except that the UK is working quite openly with France & Germany to create a payment system that won't be subject to US sanctions.

5 hours ago, Basil B said:

Who else could have done it? even the Iranians have not come up with a plausible explanation as to who else would atack oil tankers off their coast. 

Saudi or UAE

5 hours ago, Basil B said:

But Gibraltar has no refinery... 

Syria does!

8 hours ago, huangnon said:

Regime Change #178 now underway

 

Did they make the Captain walk the plank?

7 hours ago, petemoss said:

Well in the sense that Britain's action was taken at the request of the US, not the EU, it has.

 

Here we go again, the UK doing the US's dirty work for it. Expect much more when Boris becomes PM.

 

Boris Johnson = Trump's lapdog.

 

What you're relating it Spain's version. Even the OP notes Spain's issues regarding Gibraltar. That you cite it as fact doesn't make it so.

 

6 hours ago, petemoss said:

It was the Royal Navy not the "Gibraltar Navy" that acted. 

 

Although the Brits used the excuse of EU sanctions on Syria, it was never about that. In reality, it was US sanctions on the export of Iranian oil which was the issue. The intel and request to stop the ship came from the US. The EU had no idea that it was happening, hence the noises from Spain.

 

As I said, expect much more of this when Boris is PM. Boris likey licky big orange botty!

 

Somehow doubt you've got the inside track as to what it was or wasn't about. More like your opinion. So, "in reality" doesn't apply much. The same goes for the bits about "intel and request" coming from the USA, and the EU having "no idea that it was happening". The OP notes that the ship was known to be involved in Iranian sanction-breaking efforts. I believe various European intelligence services have enough assets and interest to follow such things.

 

6 hours ago, petemoss said:

Although I belive that it probably was Iran, there is some evidence that it was a false flag attack. Saudi forces acting on the instructions of the CIA/Mossad. It certainly gave strength to the US desire to launch a military attack on Iran.

 

 

 

Not familiar with any "evidence" that it was a false flag operation. There are claims it was. Again, not the same thing. Citing "Saudi forces acting on the instructions of the CIA/Mossad" is supported by nothing.

 

6 hours ago, petemoss said:

The video of the removal of the mine from the ship's hull showed a boat with several crew. There was no indication that the crew or the boat were Iranian other than the US administration claimed it whilst offering zero evidence of their claim. In fact the crew were dressed in garb that you would normally associate with Arabs (as in Saudis) rather than Iranians. Also, why remove a mine? Because they wanted to cause relatively minimum damage to one of their own vessels. Would the Iranians have done this?

 

The crew were rescued by Iranians, the White House claimed that they had been taken hostage as a rescue by Iranians didn't fit their narrative. This was proved to be completely false. Just more White House propaganda, which many claim was the root of the whole incident.

 

The video in question is indeed no conclusive evidence of Iran's involvement. That said, as far as I'm aware Iran did not deny the vessel or crew being Iranian. Nor did it offer any strong counter-evidence.

 

Being dressed as this or that would mean less than nothing, if it was a covert operation. Could just as well be Iranians masquerading as Arabs or whatnot.

 

Why remove the mine? One obvious explanation would be to removing evidence from the scene, assuming it failed to blow.

 

As i mentioned earlier, and so it starts 

 

Major General Mohsen Rezaee of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, who is also the secretary of the influential Expediency Discernment Council, tweeted that Iran should be ready for counter measures.

Should Britain refuse to release the ship, it is the authorities’ “duty to seize a British oil tanker,” he argued. https://twitter.com/ir_rezaee/status/1147022253718003712

 

7 hours ago, petemoss said:

Based on exactly zero facts or evidence other than the White House says so. What is Trump's lies/day ratio?

Speaking of ratios, 221 posts in 15 days - welcome aboard new blood is welcome. But what the hell did you do with yourself before?

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

No one has claimed that the Gibraltar secret service were the main players in this story 

No and they probably would not have got involved without the Americans requesting their action, probably the Americans asked the British Government first who had to tell them that Gibraltar was actually a self governing Crown Dependency...

Off-topic, conspiracy post reported and removed.  

Anyone want to speculate on the destination of the GRACE 1 ? It seems that she has departed Gibraltar and is underway heading east. Maybe someone with maritime knowledge can add some info. She is registered in Panama, no mention of Iran. Can anyone confirm whether the ship is still detained despite the report I posted?

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:416354/mmsi:355271000/imo:9116412/vessel:GRACE_1

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:416354/zoom:14

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/04/uk/tanker-syria-gibraltar-intl-gbr/index.html

Edited July 5, 20197 yr by ratcatcher

britain a losing US puppet on its way to brexit with a boris that will bring the economy on its knees.

definitely britain after the mess made in Iraq and Libya now trying to mess also Iran so if they may succeed (almost improbable) the middle east will be a huge war zone with millions slaughtered and much more on the way to europe as refugee.

that is the so called democracy !

13 minutes ago, Jerry787 said:

britain a losing US puppet on its way to brexit with a boris that will bring the economy on its knees.

definitely britain after the mess made in Iraq and Libya now trying to mess also Iran so if they may succeed (almost improbable) the middle east will be a huge war zone with millions slaughtered and much more on the way to europe as refugee.

that is the so called democracy !

Highly unlikely for a full scale war, no one can afford one . If I had to guess , most likely some skirmish and then either willingly will sit down or crawl to Putin for help 

9 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

Anyone want to speculate on the destination of the GRACE 1 ? It seems that she has departed Gibraltar and is underway heading east. Maybe someone with maritime knowledge can add some info. She is registered in Panama, no mention of Iran. Can anyone confirm whether the ship is still detained despite the report I posted?

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:416354/mmsi:355271000/imo:9116412/vessel:GRACE_1

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:416354/zoom:14

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/04/uk/tanker-syria-gibraltar-intl-gbr/index.html

 

According to the tracker seems like the Grace 1 is still "anchored off the coast of Gibraltar", as the CNN reports says. As for "no mention of Iran" - that's hardly correct.

 

 

9 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

Anyone want to speculate on the destination of the GRACE 1 ? It seems that she has departed Gibraltar and is underway heading east. Maybe someone with maritime knowledge can add some info. She is registered in Panama, no mention of Iran. Can anyone confirm whether the ship is still detained despite the report I posted?

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:416354/mmsi:355271000/imo:9116412/vessel:GRACE_1

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:416354/zoom:14

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/04/uk/tanker-syria-gibraltar-intl-gbr/index.html

Panama now has the largest registry in the world, followed by Liberia, the Marshall Islands, Hong Kong and Singapore. By last year, almost three quarters of the world's fleet was registered under a flag of a country other than its own.  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-28558480

12 hours ago, Jerry787 said:

britain a losing US puppet on its way to brexit with a boris that will bring the economy on its knees.

definitely britain after the mess made in Iraq and Libya now trying to mess also Iran so if they may succeed (almost improbable) the middle east will be a huge war zone with millions slaughtered and much more on the way to europe as refugee.

that is the so called democracy !

As Churchill said, The best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

 

23 hours ago, stevenl said:

"everybody know they were behind it... "

Why does everybody know that? Because US and SA say so?

They got the photo's that prove it! 

15 minutes ago, TPI said:

They got the photo's that prove it! 

No, they don't.

 

They have some very unclear video that shows some people remove a mine. Nowhere is it proven that those people removing it were Iranians, and it is not proven that the people removing it were the same ones responsible for attaching it in the first place.