Am I still married?

[Dogmatix]

6 minutes ago, SteveK said:

The problem of being married in Thailand will only become an issue if you find a new lady, which you want to marry. In the meantime, Thai laws have a reason for divorce of the spouse fleeing and not being contactable - it's just as likely that she may want to marry again also. My advice would be to ignore your marriage and forget about it. If it becomes an issue in the future THEN state your case and do whatever you need to do to have it annulled, if she has not already done so. Chill, drink a beer and think about how lucky you were to escape such a disgusting situation in it's early days rather than letting it drag on.

 

I think that getting a divorce on the grounds of a disappeared spouse is not that easy. I think you would need to prove that she had disappeared from her registered address for three years and that there is uncertainty as to whether she is living or dead.  Most of the working girls, even those not in the sex trade, around Pattaya are from other provinces and maintain registered addresses in their home towns and villages, where they tend to return for Songkran, New Year etc.  It would be necessary to get testimony from family and village headman type figures that she had really not been seen at home for three years and no one knew whether she was alive or dead.  This type of divorce would need a ruling from the Family Court which would mean having a lawyer and I think would be one of the harder grounds to use successfully.  Short of using disappearance as a grounds for divorce I think all other grounds, including three years' separation would need some acknowledgement and appearance of the wife either in court or in a district office.  So there is no easy way to do it without her.

[hanuman2543]

20 hours ago, Tim K said:

From another thai law firm website
 

Can spouses living outside of Thailand file for a divorce in Thai Court?

If the divorce is administrative, both parties will still need to appear at the District office to register the divorce. A contested divorce however requires a judgment from the Court. If you are now living abroad, the Thai Court may, potentially, still have jurisdiction over a divorce action under some circumstances. Therefore an attorney may still be able to file a divorce complaint on your behalf although you may not currently be located in Thailand. However, normally a plaintiff (the spouse who files the divorce complaint) must appear in person at least one time during the court process to provide testimony that establishes the grounds for the divorce.  A divorce attorney can normally assist with reserving a convenient date with the court.

During my divorce 4 Year ago my ex-wife and I had to attend every court session in person .  You have to give testimony and the other side too.

Edited July 10, 2019 by hanuman2543

[ericthai]

3 hours ago, Tony125 said:

 #4 Since you say the Government knows about your marriage she will be entitled to yous Social Security benefits and possibly any pension you may have.

That's not true. They would need to be married for minimum 10 years for her to collect when she reaches age 62 as long as If no children are involved.  She must also be entitled to SS via working and paying into SS. She would have to be single at the time of applying.

[SenorJorge]

40 minutes ago, SteveK said:

You are married in Thailand. You said that you will never marry again and you don't want to go back to Thailand. Forget about it, see your friends and have a few beers. She can't touch you.

That is going to be my one rule in life.  No more marriage.  Been played twice.  In terms of matrimony, the ball is just not in my court.  Longterm gf, okay.  Marriage?  No way, Guadalupe.

 

I am going to stick by my commitment of no more money for this girl.  She can stay stuck legally married forever if she wants more money from me.  At the end of the day my "marriage" on paper here in America is more or less meaningless in the grand scheme of things.  I have no plans on returning to Thailand ever again.  I am very content in Cambodia and the Philippines, possibly India.

 

She's going to have to get herself out of this herself which is going to cost her at least 15-30k baht at the end of the 12 months.  I doubt she saved the money but that's where a farang is going to come in handy, I'm sure.

 

This thread has kind of opened my eyes a lot.  I got off easy, in comparison to the way things could have gone, and have for many people.  Its a good thing I didn't continue to make upgrades to the house, or Heaven forbid build a new one.

[SenorJorge]

9 minutes ago, ericthai said:

That's not true. They would need to be married for minimum 10 years for her to collect when she reaches age 62 as long as If no children are involved.  She must also be entitled to SS via working and paying into SS. She would have to be single at the time of applying.

I'm disabled and she's not entitled to Social Security or my VA pension.  The pension is not transferable after death and per US law it is not divisible in divorce court.  I went through this already in this state with my first wife not too long ago.  Her only option for farang pay days is to find a new one, fortunately for me, unfortunately for her, and even more unfortunate for her next victim.

[Mel52]

I'm disabled and she's not entitled to Social Security or my VA pension.  The pension is not transferable after death and per US law it is not divisible in divorce court.  I went through this already in this state with my first wife not too long ago.  Her only option for farang pay days is to find a new one, fortunately for me, unfortunately for her, and even more unfortunate for her next victim.

That’s correct the IRS can’t even touch your VA pension and Social Security except for under very rare circumstances. Courts in the states can’t even touch your VA pension for child support payments. I know because it actually says that in my VA pension documents when I was originally awarded it. I know for sure VA pensions are pretty much untouchable unless you owe the VA money. You are absolutely right about that one.

[Mel52]

You must be married to my Wife’s Niece she has about a dozen Facebook profiles and men all over the world sending her money on a regular basis. She’s fun to be around sometimes and speaks perfect English but she goes psycho when she gets mad or doesn’t get her way, and she is from up here in the Issan area. I once told her last Songkran when she came on to me (probably just for money) that I couldn’t afford her. Then she got pissed off and she said “I’m not a prostitute” then I said “then I really can’t afford you” lol [emoji23]. Then she broke a beer bottle and was kind of threatening me with the broken bottle. I just started laughing at her and she just ran away. A few days later she started being nice to me again weird.

 

Then one of her American boy friends sent me a message saying “if you insult my wife again I’m gonna come over there and teach you some manners” well actually she’s not anyone’s wife they’re not married lol [emoji23]. So I called him and I said come on over Travis you MOTHER Fcer you know where I live. Last time he was here in Thailand in person I confronted him in person like a man and he totally backed down like a coward. Gotta love keyboard warriors LMAO [emoji23].

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SenorJorge]

5 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

You must be married to my Wife’s Niece she has about a dozen Facebook profiles and men all over the world sending her money on a regular basis. She’s fun to be around sometimes and speaks perfect English but she goes psycho when she gets mad or doesn’t get her way, and she is from up here in the Issan area. I once told her last Songkran when she came on to me (probably just for money) that I couldn’t afford her. Then she got pissed off and she said “I’m not a prostitute” then I said “then I really can’t afford you” lol . Then she broke a beer bottle and was kind of threatening me with the broken bottle. I just started laughing at her and she just ran away. A few days later she started being nice to me again weird.

 

Then one of her American boy friends sent me a message saying “if you insult my wife I’m gonna come over there and teach you some manners” well actually she’s not anyone’s wife they’re not married lol . So I called him and I said come on over Travis you MOTHER Fcer you know where I live. Last time he was here in Thailand in person I confronted him in person like a man and he totally backed down like a coward. Gotta love keyboard warriors LMAO .

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't help but to feel sorry for someone so stupid.  Doesn't he realise he's being played?  Maybe he enjoys this sort of thing?  I saw many other farangs being abused by their Thai wives for years when the farang was clearly the breadwinner.. As they always are.  I wondered why these men stay with these women?  Is it some kind of masochism?  Do they just want to be able to stay in Thailand?  Surely the elite visa would cost less than we pay to these sort of crazy gold diggers.  There are many many many women out there like my wife.  Its part of the culture of Esan.  Money extraction from foreigners.  And it seems nobody really even needs to teach them how to do it.  They're born with that knowledge, its in their DNA, it would seem.  Amazing.

 

Side note:  Ok.  I know there are good Esan girls out there.  I wish I met one, to be real with you.  I don't mean to insult all Northern women here.  I'm referring to a specific kind of girl.  Peace.

[Tagged]

33 minutes ago, SenorJorge said:

I can't help but to feel sorry for someone so stupid.  Doesn't he realise he's being played?  Maybe he enjoys this sort of thing?  I saw many other farangs being abused by their Thai wives for years when the farang was clearly the breadwinner.. As they always are.  I wondered why these men stay with these women?  Is it some kind of masochism?  Do they just want to be able to stay in Thailand?  Surely the elite visa would cost less than we pay to these sort of crazy gold diggers.  There are many many many women out there like my wife.  Its part of the culture of Esan.  Money extraction from foreigners.  And it seems nobody really even needs to teach them how to do it.  They're born with that knowledge, its in their DNA, it would seem.  Amazing.

 

Side note:  Ok.  I know there are good Esan girls out there.  I wish I met one, to be real with you.  I don't mean to insult all Northern women here.  I'm referring to a specific kind of girl.  Peace.

So you have been here for years now, and did not know better? 

 

Ai, 

[SenorJorge]

5 minutes ago, Tagged said:

So you have been here for years now, and did not know better? 

 

Ai, 

She practiced the art of deception very well.  The best liar you ever saw.  Tears and all.

 

And I'm just getting old.  Foolish old man.  No more marriage no more problem, amigo.  ????

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, SenorJorge said:

She practiced the art of deception very well.  The best liar you ever saw.  Tears and all.

 

And I'm just getting old.  Foolish old man.  No more marriage no more problem, amigo.  ????

Anyway, one time Thai fever, always thai fever ????

 

Good luck with your next one

[Gracas]

3 hours ago, SenorJorge said:

She practiced the art of deception very well.  The best liar you ever saw.  Tears and all.

 

And I'm just getting old.  Foolish old man.  No more marriage no more problem, amigo.  ????

Don't be too hard on yourself, it happens to many.

 

In fact you are in a very good situation. You got married and got rid of your wife all within a matter of months, it takes some people years if not decades to do this. You have done very well.

Now you are married you cannot marry again. What a great situation to be in, your ready for your next adventure.

[KhaoYai]

10 hours ago, SenorJorge said:

I'm two times a sucker marrying se Asian girls.  Finally learned my lesson.  Never again.

Listen buddy, a hell of a lot of us who should know better have done it.  My ex wasn't a bar girl (not that it matters but she wasn't), she worked in a factory, seemed so sweet and genuinely caring.  After years in the wilderness I thought I'd finally hit the jackpot. Long long story but it didn't take too long for me to realise something was wrong. Six months in I was diagnosed with a potentially fatal disease and didn't have time to be checking up on what was going on - I had my 'gut instincts' but my health was far more important for a while.  Once I was through the treatment I set about finding out if my 'gut instincts' were right.

 

They were..........and worse, I'd been played from day one - although as an 'old hand' she got very little from me and that was part of her plan actually - she was in it for the long run. She had her eyes on getting hold of my house - something she was never going to do (sometimes the Thai land laws actually work for us). When she realised she wasn't going to get her hands on the house she tried to persuade me to build a house in her village and when that failed - her attitude changed completely. I think she would have divorced me then but she knew I had a serious illness and I'm pretty sure she was waiting around thinking I'd not be around too much longer and she'd be in for a payout.

 

She fooled me and even managed to fool my Thai friends for a while.  When I began checking her out I found a whole web of deceit - Thai boyfriend, the whole caboodle. So we can all get burned - I thought I could spot a 'wrong 'un' at a thousand yards. Yours? Well from what you say, you probably got it wrong at the second date stage ????.

 

The upshot for me was that I'd insisted on Sin Sot being returned immediately after the wedding ceremony and her folks were decent people. She was actually kicked out of the family home for a while because she'd also lied to the family. She didn't argue over the divorce - she got nothing and I'm pretty sure her mother sorted that. She was back working in the factory last I heard - som nam na as they say.

 

Right now you say never again but you probably will. All I would say is that next time act on your 'gut instincts' as I should have done - from what you write, I'm sure you had them - they are rarely wrong.

Edited July 10, 2019 by KhaoYai

[SenorJorge]

You were taken for the long ride.  I'm not sure my ride was ever intended to be that long.  You are right, I saw red flags go up on the second date.  They were very subtle, but often those are the best clues.  I reasoned that it was all just an awkward coincidence and proceeded far too quickly.  She's a good girl, factory girl, just a little bit weird!  Soon I was heavily invested and married.  Thats when the big bad news started to come in, signs of lying, signs of cheating.  I thought she was tamable/able to be domesticated.  THEY ARE NEVER TAMABLE.  Years of debauchery in Jomtien and Esan drama has brainwashed them.  Forget it.  Another thing I learned the hard way.  As they say on nature shows, "they're probably happier in the wild" anyway.  Leave them there.

 

This part about the Thai boyfriend doesn't shock me at all.  So many of them have a Thai gik.  To be honest with you, I think its just becuase they can get away with it easier.  I've heard so many stories.  The "cousin" the girl isn't actually related to at all.  The caring supervisor from the old job who helps the wife out fixing things at the farm house.  I've heard farangs tell me stories in Esan where the guy for work reasons/family reasons/etc must go back to Australia for weeks/months at a time.  Even secret marriages.  Farang moves in, Thai gik (or Buddha village husband) goes home.  I've heard where Thai BFs/Husbands ENCOURAGE their wives to get a farang husband so they can extract cash out of him together.  You just wouldn't believe it.  Nigeria gets a bad rap, but Thailand has truly mastered the art of the romance scam.

Edited July 10, 2019 by SenorJorge

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, SenorJorge said:

Also.. She is tall, leggy, long haired.  Perfect face and smile.  Model appearance.  Ten out of ten. 

You thought she loved you because?

Your good looks? great personality?

Just wondering.

 

I always assume any young and attractive (unrelated) woman that talks to me must be a hooker.

Edited July 10, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, SenorJorge said:

This part about the Thai boyfriend doesn't shock me at all.  So many of them have a Thai gik.  To be honest with you, I think its just becuase they can get away with it easier.  I've heard so many stories.  The "cousin" the girl isn't actually related to at all.  The caring supervisor from the old job who helps the wife out fixing things at the farm house.  I've heard farangs tell me stories in Esan where the guy for work reasons/family reasons/etc must go back to Australia for weeks/months at a time.  Even secret marriages.  Farang moves in, Thai gik (or Buddha village husband) goes home.  

Thai culture doesn't allow married women to interact with other men without their husband present.

[SenorJorge]

32 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You thought she loved you because?

Your good looks? great personality?

Just wondering.

 

I always assume any young and attractive (unrelated) woman that talks to me must be a hooker.

 

I am starting to assume the same.  I thought it was just my charming personality and the good time I showed her.  When my health is better, I'm really a ladies man.  I mean, to a fault.  I go out of my way to please them.  Maybe thats why I've had two of these kinds of women now.  I seemed to be a pushover.  Well, not anymore.  I really think I was just getting old and our dates filled my heart with dreamy nostalgia for the first dates I had with Thai women in the 00's.  We were just running the town and the sex was amazing.  I was spending big but it was worth it.  Then the holiday ended and the longer my eyes were open... The more I wish I didn't see.  Then I couldn't ignore it anymore.  Time to go!

 

India will be better.  I really enjoy conversations with locals.  India is great for that.  Girls?  As friends?  Okay.  No more wives.  Everything okay!  ????

[SenorJorge]

40 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Thai culture doesn't allow married women to interact with other men without their husband present.

That's good for Thai men.  Not so good for us.  They only follow Thai customs as it suits them.  Lots of gold, sinsod, gifts for mom and dad that are sold and money given back to them, etc etc  ????

 

I like the dowry system in India better.  I marry your daughter, you give ME MONEY! haha.  Joking aside, I think you've got the right model, Britman.  Keep a girlfriend at home and don't ever marry them.  If they won't accept this arrangement, get a new one.  There are many.

[Stevemercer]

10 hours ago, Just Weird said:

"If you want a divorce from her, you will have to negotiate a 'settlement' fee with her before she'll agree to a divorce on mutual grounds under Thai law..". 

Garbage.  Thai law does not stipulate that!

 

I'm afraid that is the reality of Thailand. If the OP wants a divorce the quickest way is by mutual agreement. She is in it for the money and will agree to divorce for money up front. Doesn't matter what the law says.

[SenorJorge]

1 hour ago, Stevemercer said:

 

I'm afraid that is the reality of Thailand. If the OP wants a divorce the quickest way is by mutual agreement. She is in it for the money and will agree to divorce for money up front. Doesn't matter what the law says.

She will want to marry again.  It will happen eventually.  She will divorce alone for abandonment after 12 months.   She won't see a penny.  I would seriously give my left arm before I'd hand her another dime.

Edited July 11, 2019 by SenorJorge

[Mavideol]

On 7/10/2019 at 1:26 AM, SenorJorge said:

I'm really concerned.  She tells me she hates me, yet does this.

Love and hate is something that cannot be avoided, you cannot feel one without the other too, love and hate always come hand in hand

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

Love and hate is something that cannot be avoided, you cannot feel one without the other too, love and hate always come hand in hand

 

In Thailand, best to choose the middle path.

[Just Weird]

5 hours ago, Stevemercer said:

 

I'm afraid that is the reality of Thailand. If the OP wants a divorce the quickest way is by mutual agreement. She is in it for the money and will agree to divorce for money up front. Doesn't matter what the law says.

Well, it does matter what the law says and my point was that Thai law does not say what you claimed it says in your comment.

[KhaoYai]

10 hours ago, SenorJorge said:

You were taken for the long ride

No, it wasn't that long and it would have been a lot shorter if I'd been well.  She was in it for the long game - I wasn't.

 

10 hours ago, SenorJorge said:

The "cousin" the girl isn't actually related to at all.

Absolutely correct - he was the 'cousin' and she had the audacity to introduce me to him! Fortunately there are thousands of decent Thai females out there but meeting them can be a bit tricky and depends a lot on where and how you meet them.

 

Western men often meet girls in the 'bar' industry and think they can rescue them because really they are so sweet - it works sometimes but fails more often than not. Then there's the other side - dating websites, they're as bad in some ways and quite a good proportion of 'bar girls' have a presence on those sites too - either professionally or their alter ego, the supposed good girl. The problem is that meeting people online is how its done now - its the 'norm' - even amongst the younger generation. Online, both men and women can project an image that may be far from the truth - even a whole new persona. It can take time to get to the 'real' person behind that image. However, if you use your 'gut instincts' the signs are usually there, its just that sometimes we choose not to see them or think they will change.

 

I've had people say to me 'if you need to check on someone, you shouldn't be in a relationship with them'. I don't go for that one - people can be so devious, sometimes its only by checking that you find out the truth. A Thai friend of mine had no idea that her western boyfriend had actually been married in his home country for many years and had kids. She only discovered that when he left his phone at their Bangkok condo one night and went out with friends. His phone kept buzzing away (on silent of course) so in the end she thought it must be something important and answered it - it was important, it was his wife!

 

The best relationship I ever had with a Thai female was with a girl I was introduced to. She was a real diamond but I screwed that one up - I was a relative 'newbie' and couldn't keep it in my trousers in the 'toyshop' that is Thailand. So I guess my later failed marriage was a case of 'Som Nam Na' on my part.

 

Treating your partner like a fool isn't only the realm of some Thai girls it works both ways - how many guys out there (especially in Pattaya) have the 'little lady' at home and visit the bar every night - partaking upon what's on offer? Is screwing around any better than milking bank accounts?

Edited July 11, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Stevemercer]

3 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Well, it does matter what the law says and my point was that Thai law does not say what you claimed it says in your comment.

Unfortunately, once you have lived in Thailand long enough, you will find that it does not necessarily matter what the law says!

[StevieAus]

On 7/10/2019 at 1:53 AM, Small Joke said:

I am reasonably certain, you can initiate a divorce in your citizenship country, regardless of where you got married.

I can't speak to the US family court system, but in Australia, you can do it all yourself, online, so long as both parties agree to the divorce (asset divisions, if any, are handled separately, later).

You'll need your marriage certificate or certified copy. Proof of your Citizenship, and affidavit proof your wife as been served the divorce papers, she dosnt need to consent, just you need proof of service.

 

This is generic advice, the family court website in your country/state can give you more guidance YMMV and being Thailand, who knows what crap you'll be dealing with legally at this end, try to minimize her involvement in the proceedings.

 

Avoid as far as possible Thai legal entanglements, they may well  oblige you to remain in Thailand against your will, for years as the case drags on, impoverishing you utterly, plus it's an immigration nightmare! Monthly reports and passport confiscated. 

 

Don't start any proceedings from within Thailand! Go home and sort it out.

In Australia if you were married overseas there are some other requirements to be met also if married for less than two years you have to attend counseling and lodge a certificate to that effect.

Sounds great if you don’t want to be with the person.

[KhaoYai]

12 hours ago, SenorJorge said:

Farang moves in, Thai gik (or Buddha village husband) goes home.  I've heard where Thai BFs/Husbands ENCOURAGE their wives to get a farang husband so they can extract cash out of him together.

If you're German and have a wife in Bangkok - its probably better that you don't read this.

 

An ex of mine's dad lives with his girlfriend in Bangkok. His girlfriend however, is married to a German guy who visits for a month, 3 or 4 times per year.  When the German arrives, my ex's dad moves into the spare bedroom and becomes the 'brother'! To really 'rub it in' - both guys share a love of fishing and the 'dad' takes the German fishing when he visits!  This is known about throughout the family - I can't say its regarded as normal but they certainly talk about it as if it is.

 

Thai house walls are not known for their soundproofing - how the 'dad' can lie there at night and listen to the German banging his girlfriend is beyond me.

 

This was in 2009 and to the best of my knowledge - is still going on.

[UncleFesterNightmare]

Do you have both marriage papers?  They are pink and rosy colored, as if it would be a happy occasion. 

 

Isn't it amazing the cretins who pile on to your misery?  If you know anything about the poor sods (most of them) who live on this forum, you should know that they love to make sure you are more miserable than they are.

 

Having the documents, both of them would be a plus.

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

If you're German and have a wife in Bangkok - its probably better that you don't read this.

 

An ex of mine's dad lives with his girlfriend in Bangkok. His girlfriend however, is married to a German guy who visits for a month, 3 or 4 times per year.  When the German arrives, my ex's dad moves into the spare bedroom and becomes the 'brother'! To really 'rub it in' - both guys share a love of fishing and the 'dad' takes the German fishing when he visits!  This is known about throughout the family - I can't say its regarded as normal but they certainly talk about it as if it is.

 

Thai house walls are not known for their soundproofing - how the 'dad' can lie there at night and listen to the German banging his girlfriend is beyond me.

 

This was in 2009 and to the best of my knowledge - is still going on.

Sounds like an excellent and solid solution for all parts. Everyone gets their benefitsd and needs covered. 

[SenorJorge]

Best thing to do these days is hire a PI the minute you start thinking marriage with any Thai female - I care how much she makes, and what the pretexts are.  Sure -  you will pay 10, 15, maybe even 30, 60 thousand baht or more for the investigation.  But it will be worth it in the long run.  Spend maybe 60k baht to discover the Thai gik or even previous marriages.. Just to save hundreds of thousands or even over 1M later.  You might end up discovering previous marriages.  This is often enough to cause just enough doubt to say you know, its not worth it.  She should at LEAST tell you if she's been married before.  If she's lied about that, get rid of her.  There's a whole cacophony of things they can uncover about your Thai "partner" that will cause you to rethink things.  For me, personally, I'd rather just avoid marriage.  But for anyone considering it.. WAIT.  And do your research on your  girl.  Pay to have it done, with a legit PI service, this is even better. 

 

As for me... I just don't marry them anymore.  Not from any country or planet.  I don't like being lied to.  I'd rather lie to myself.

Edited July 11, 2019 by SenorJorge