Indefinate Leave To Remain ! What A Con!

[Prakanong]

A few years ago we needed to borrow money from the bank. When we went they said that they couldn't lend me the money, as I had not spent enough time in the UK over the previous 3 years. But, they could lend the money to my wife - who had arrived in the UK - for the first time - on the same day as me!!

Classic!!!

The amount of credit I get offered in Singapore is incredible on a EP.

[topdjdel]

I thought only one country was titled AMAZING

How wrong am I.The UK is crumbling never mind global warming.

These polititions who dream up these rule and regs are drinking far too much sherry.

When my wife got ILTR it was a little difficult,the home office changing rules without telling anyone cost us £500 but now £750 and test!! <deleted> is going on.Is anyone(especially a brit cit) allowed to be happy??

So then if your clever enough earn lots of money pay over the top taxes and your TG,TW passes the test and ILTR is granted what does she have to do to get an English passport??

RUN FOR PRIME MINISTER maybe??? just a thought.

[Richard W]

So then if your clever enough earn lots of money pay over the top taxes and your TG,TW passes the test and ILTR is granted what does she have to do to get an English passport??

No one gets English passports.

[topdjdel]

Well spotted young man,got carried away with the moment.

Correction: British Passport

have an affair with Gordon Brown?? just another thought

[phil2]

I got the first 18 right and the last 2 wrong. So presumably I can't ever go home.

There's no way my wife would be able to pass that test. Its more Constitutional Law than general knowledge. I think most English people would score about 50%.

Agree: this test should be no qualification for obtaining citizenship. Its foolish and pointless

Can you become a Thai citizen if you want to?

It's good for Thais to go through the same hassle we go through here. 400,000,every year,show up every three months e.t.c...........

[oldoldgit!!]

Spuds,

Get the questions and answers book for your wife and keep reading and testing each other day in and day out, in the end she will recognise the questions and will be able to answer them parrot fasion, as wife did when she took her test, also you will be a good citizen too, best of luck!

[OneeyedJohn]

I've read through all this and I'm horrified.

what is going on in the UK?

I am a British citizen that met and brought to UK in 1982 a Thai .

If she had had to go through this shit then for sure she would have failed, and

secondly I would for sure not have wanted to put up with paying these fees ( relative )

My wife applied for citizenship with virtually no help from me, it just

wasn't necessary back then.

God help you guys with all this crap in England.

[GU22]

I have only skimmed through the many posts, so forgive me if I am repeating something that has already been said.

The test is simple for anyone who has the time and inclination to study for it. If someone's English is not good enough to allow them to do this then they don't take the test; they take an ESOL with citizenship course instead.

The fact that many British adults would struggle to pass this test without studying for it first is a sad indictment of our education system, not of the test.

The test was not brought in to inconvenience British men with a Thai wife. It was brought in to ensure that new citizens, now new residents, can communicate effectively and have some awareness of the history of their new country and their rights within it.

Surely no one here would begrudge their partner that?

I do have, though, two areas of complaint.

1) Some of the questions are somewhat PC, and not really relevant.

2) The timing of the introduction of this requirement for ILR is atrocious. It gave applicants whose current LTR expires in April 2007 very little time to prepare. This, together with the huge increase in fees, can only be seen as a cynical money-making exercise by the government; all those FLR fees from people who haven't had time to prepare for the test or complete an ESOL with citizenship course.

The fair thing to have done would have been for those already in the UK to be exempt from this requirement and for it to apply to new entrants only.

But fairness and this government are strangers to each other. Something I hope you all remember at the next election.

[Mossfinn]

I have only skimmed through the many posts, so forgive me if I am repeating something that has already been said.

The test is simple for anyone who has the time and inclination to study for it. If someone's English is not good enough to allow them to do this then they don't take the test; they take an ESOL with citizenship course instead.

I have to take issue here G', it is not simple for someone who is not an indigenous member of the UK, my wife speaks very good English and writes to a standard good enough to pass a certificate in Child Care at the local college and she had to study the book dilligently for a month to pass.

The fact that many British adults would struggle to pass this test without studying for it first is a sad indictment of our education system, not of the test.

I think, personally, that people are making a statement about the questions without reading the LITUK text book, I am sure if they did they would pass easy enough. I have stated long and often about the type of questions and at one point on a previous thread one Scotsman actually stated as wrong one of the questions regarding 'What to bring to a house on the night of Hogmany'.

The test was not brought in to inconvenience British men with a Thai wife. It was brought in to ensure that new citizens, now new residents, can communicate effectively and have some awareness of the history of their new country and their rights within it.

Intergration is key, I agree.

Surely no one here would begrudge their partner that?

I do have, though, two areas of complaint.

1) Some of the questions are somewhat PC, and not really relevant.

Couldn't agree more.

2) The timing of the introduction of this requirement for ILR is atrocious. It gave applicants whose current LTR expires in April 2007 very little time to prepare. This, together with the huge increase in fees, can only be seen as a cynical money-making exercise by the government; all those FLR fees from people who haven't had time to prepare for the test or complete an ESOL with citizenship course.

I think this is the main grumbling point, something I whole-heartedly agree with. The money making scheme can only be got away with because it is a captive audience with no free market incentive scheme to moderate price increases.

The fair thing to have done would have been for those already in the UK to be exempt from this requirement and for it to apply to new entrants only.

Agree to a point, but there can be no justification for the steep price rises and little notification, something I know you agree with.

But fairness and this government are strangers to each other Probably. Something I hope you all remember at the next election. Unfortunately there is nobody else credible to vote for, so I will take my membership of the Labour Party and protest locally, against various issues this gov't construes to cock-up.

I have a feeling the membership thing will create a furore

I havn't singled out your post G' but if I had answered a couple of the previous posts, I have a distinct feeling I would be banned by now, particularly after a great win yesterday, but an overall loss, mood wasn't great!!

Good Luck

Moss

[bkk_mike]

Testing - fine...

This test?

Wrong answers

• One question doesn't even have the right answer in the list (there are 27 countries in the EU since Bulgaria and Rumania joined).
  
• The question on the number of bank holidays only says you're correct if you give the number for England and Wales (Scotland has one more holiday a year since the 2nd of Jan is a holiday).
  

Pointless questions

• What is the point in knowing the significance of Easter Eggs? (Surely this is a religious question)
  
• What does an immigrant care about the size of the cabinet? (I got this one wrong myself - and even knowing the answer now, I still don't care...)
  
• Even the EU doesn't say the forming of the European Coal and Steel Federation was the start of the EU. The starting point is officially taken as the signing of the Treaty of Rome... (just wait for the 50th anniversary celebrations later this year).
  

Finally, given most people outside the UK/US grow up dealing with kilometres, what's the point in asking questions with answers in miles (without at least being good Europeans and putting in the corresponding km distances)?

[Mossfinn]

Testing - fine...

This test?

Wrong answers

• One question doesn't even have the right answer in the list (there are 27 countries in the EU since Bulgaria and Rumania joined). To be fair, there is a New updated book coming out soon, if they get it wrong then, it just highlights the absolute pointless nature of the questions, in my opinion.
  
• The question on the number of bank holidays only says you're correct if you give the number for England and Wales (Scotland has one more holiday a year since the 2nd of Jan is a holiday). No comment, if they can't word the question right, what is the point in answering it correctly
  

Pointless questions

• What is the point in knowing the significance of Easter Eggs? (Surely this is a religious question) It is not entirely a Religious question, I think? although most believe it to be associated with the the Resurrection of Christ, and more importantly this is predominately a Christian Country, so I would suggest this is relevant toward the the culture of this country.
  
• What does an immigrant care about the size of the cabinet? (I got this one wrong myself - and even knowing the answer now, I still don't care...) Probably agree with this
  
• Even the EU doesn't say the forming of the European Coal and Steel Federation was the start of the EU. The starting point is officially taken as the signing of the Treaty of Rome... (just wait for the 50th anniversary celebrations later this year). I would sugest this is correct too.
  

Finally, given most people outside the UK/US grow up dealing with kilometres, what's the point in asking questions with answers in miles (without at least being good Europeans and putting in the corresponding km distances)?

Possibly, but Miles is still the predominant currency of the roads in the UK, and so makes it relevant toward the culture of this country, in my opinion, and the test is LITUK afterall, not Europe or rest of the world.

Good Luck

Moss

[the scouser]

[*]The question on the number of bank holidays only says you're correct if you give the number for England and Wales (Scotland has one more holiday a year since the 2nd of Jan is a holiday).

I believe Scotland has eight, too, as they don't get Easter Monday which the English and Welsh do. Northern Ireland, however, has ten as they get both St Paddy's and King Billy's days in addition to the eight others.

Anyway, on a vaguely related issue, Mrs. Scouse passed her Life in the UK test yesterday at the first attempt. 'Twas St Patrick's Day and Liverpool, as you would expect, was packed with promenading semi-drunk, but affable, Irishmen, which all added an air of festivity as a backdrop to her success.

We've now got to decide whether it's worth the £575.00 for naturalisation.

Scouse.

[Khun Bob]

Is it easier to get a gcse in english than this ILR test ? I noticed today that some 'body' now thinks that exams in the UK are too easy !

"All they want is dumbed down automatons generating taxes for the corrupt government, whilst taking away your past freedoms by scrutinising every aspect of your life"

[GU22]

The test is simple for anyone who has the time and inclination to study for it. If someone's English is not good enough to allow them to do this then they don't take the test; they take an ESOL with citizenship course instead.

I have to take issue here G', it is not simple for someone who is not an indigenous member of the UK, my wife speaks very good English and writes to a standard good enough to pass a certificate in Child Care at the local college and she had to study the book dilligently for a month to pass.

I think, Moss, that we are using different words to say the same thing.

Something I hope you all remember at the next election. Unfortunately there is nobody else credible to vote for, so I will take my membership of the Labour Party and protest locally, against various issues this gov't construes to cock-up

My party, right or wrong? Politicians of all colours rely on this, which is why it is so difficult to change anything!

Remember Guy Fawkes? The only person to ever enter Parliament with honest intentions.

Finally a reminder to all those criticising the actual questions in the link provided earlier: These are not the actual questions!

The only way to see the real questions is to either buy the book or take the test.

To get an idea of the subjects covered, see here.

[oldoldgit!!]

We've now got to decide whether it's worth the £575.00 for naturalisation.

Scouse.

Are you forgetting plus £40.00 checking fee for Natulalisation form, plus the £68.00 for the Ceremony with the Mayor, plus £119.00 for passport plus £ 5.00 checking fee for passport form, thats another £232.00 on top of your £575.00, is she wortht it? of course she is!!

[Mossfinn]

Anyway, on a vaguely related issue, Mrs. Scouse passed her Life in the UK test yesterday at the first attempt. 'Twas St Patrick's Day and Liverpool, as you would expect, was packed with promenading semi-drunk, but affable, Irishmen, which all added an air of festivity as a backdrop to her success.

Well Done Mrs Scouse from Moss and Mrs Moss sends her congrats as well.

An auspicious event on a Great Day

Didn't I say it would all be fine

Good Luck

Moss

[buriramboy]

haven't read the whole thread so i apologize if i'm asking already answered questions.

1) what is the pass rate for the exam, e.g 15/20 75% as i am presuming applicants would not have to get 100% correct??

2) i have been married over 4 years and have a 3 1/2 year old daughter (with british and thai passport), although neither my wife or daughter has so far set foot in the uk, i seem to remember someone saying that because i've been married over 4 years my wife could apply for ILTR here in Bangkok, is this correct and would the test still have to be taken first??

Thanks in advance.

BB

[GU22]

1) The pass mark, according to the LITUKT website is "around 75%."

2) This is a very good question. Only Tony and his partners know the answer, and they don't seem to want to tell anyone.

Two possible scenarios, as I see it. Either people who are, like your wife, time qualified for ILE would have to sit the test in their country of current residence before applying; or this form of entry clearance will be abolished and such persons will have to follow the spouse visa route, paying the appropriate fees.

As this so-called socialist government seems to be determined to grab as much money as they can from those who can least afford it, I suspect the latter.

[buriramboy]

Who is Tony?

Is it worth me e-mailing the British Embassy, are they likely to give me a straight forward easy to understand answer??

BB

[buriramboy]

sorry its been a long day, i was a bit slow on the uptake there, Tony Blair i presume you were referring to.

[GU22]

Correct, Tony Blair, our Prime Minister (unfortunately).

I doubt if the embassy know for sure yet, but it's worth a try. Please let us know if you get a reply.

Edited March 19, 2007 by GU22

[buriramboy]

ok, e-mail has just been sent to the embassy in bangkok near enough the same as i typed in post #107, will let you know if and when i get a reply.

BB

[distortedlink]

I met my Thai wife in England. We married in 1987 and only 3 weeks later my wife received a permanent stay visa from the Home Office. As a married couple we were lucky as only a short time later they moved the goal posts and reduced a married visa to 1 year and then had to apply again. This posed no problems and was easy.

Problem is that since then the munificence's of both the Thai and the British governments towards immigrants has been constantly abused by countless amounts of illegals, gangsters entering the country, marriages of convenience, and political asylum seekers that are just economic refugees. The list goes on and on.

I have stated a point time after time that the more dross let in to Thailand & Britain the more problems this will cause for everybody, that includes, visa runners in Thailand, developing country penniless British nationally seekers in Britain, the whole lot in both Thailand and Britain are I wager mostly applying for economic reasons, or on the run from the authorities in their own countries. Once these dross are in, they somehow disappear using false IDs, or working without permits in order to avoid being deported.

Because of the constant abuses of immigration processes, governments have been forced to tighten up on the admittance regulations regarding immigrants & foreigners coming into the country. This makes it more & more difficult for the genuine nationality/visa applicants.

I would think that immigration laws will get even stricter in the foreseeable future and the ones to thank for this are the hidden agenda visa runners in Thailand and third world undesirables who take advantage of Britain's generosity and lax laws for immigrants.

Edited March 19, 2007 by distortedlink

[the scouser]

Are you forgetting plus £40.00 checking fee for Natulalisation form, plus the £68.00 for the Ceremony with the Mayor, plus £119.00 for passport plus £ 5.00 checking fee for passport form, thats another £232.00 on top of your £575.00, is she wortht it? of course she is!!

I hope that as an immigration adviser, I can forego the various checking services.

I shall, however, invoice the missus for my time.

Scouse.

[oldoldgit!!]

Oops! was forgetting that Scouse, but £762.00 spent after the test before picking up the passport is disgusting, any chance of you advising Ali baba and his forty thieves sometime?

[buriramboy]

Correct, Tony Blair, our Prime Minister (unfortunately).

I doubt if the embassy know for sure yet, but it's worth a try. Please let us know if you get a reply.

Just received a reply now from embassy to e-mail i sent on Monday, they said because been married over 4 years (even though wife has never set foot in the UK) could apply for indefinate leave to remain via a settlement visa. however nothing in th reply mentioned the test, so i have sent a reply asking them again about it, as in would my wife have to sit a test here or does it not apply. Will post reply as when i get one.

FM

[the scouser]

I'm interested in the outcome, too, BB.

Scouse.

[GU22]

Just received a reply now from embassy to e-mail i sent on Monday, they said because been married over 4 years (even though wife has never set foot in the UK) could apply for indefinate leave to remain via a settlement visa.

Yeah, that is the situation now, but what you (and we) want to know is what happens when the ILR rule changes come into force in April.

Civil servants tend to have literal minds, ask them a question and they'll tell you the answer pertaining to today, even if the situation will be different tomorrow. If you want to know what the situation will be in April then you need to make that clear. (Apols if I'm stating the obvious.)

[IvanLaw]

Received by post book

"Life in the United Kingdom"

How is a non-English person supposed to digest the information?

You need a degree in English to understand it

Now to send for 2nd edition as my wife will never be ready for the required Inquisition.

Although she is studying ESL level 3 at Boston College

the course content not including the section required for Government rules

Also have to apply for extension

She and I are both extremely worried and upset.

WHAT A COMPLET AND UTTER BA**S UP

Edited March 22, 2007 by IvanLaw

[GU22]

WHAT A COMPLET AND UTTER BA**S UP

I'm afraid that you are correct, you have ba**sed it up!

From Knowledge of life in the UK, Guidance.

Those who speak English at or above ESOL (English for Speakers of other languages) Entry Level 3 standard will be able to sit a "Life in the UK Test".

Or

those who do not have English skills at ESOL Entry Level 3 will need to gain an approved English for Speakers of Other Languages (ESOL) qualification through attendance at an ESOL course which includes citizenship materials.

I'm afraid it seems that you enrolled her on the wrong course.

Worth her giving it a go, though. A certain Thailand-UK website has carried lots of reports recently from Thais who have passed this test.