Use Of The Title 'here' In Place Of Khun

[topfield]

Does anyone know when one can use 'here' instaed of khun when addressing a Thai gentleman ?

Thank you

[p_brownstone]

Does anyone know when one can use 'here' instaed of khun when addressing a Thai gentleman ?

Thank you

"Here" or as I would spell it in English "Hia" is not Thai, it's a Chinese word which Thai / Chinese use between quite close friends and approximately translates as "brother" (although there does not need to be a blood relationship).

It's not really a term I would recommend using since, as I say, it suggests a close relationship between the persons - also if you use it to address an ethnic Thai (rather than a Thai / Chinese) you might cause a little offence.

Patrick

[ColPyat]

Does anyone know when one can use 'here' instaed of khun when addressing a Thai gentleman ?

Thank you

"Here" or as I would spell it in English "Hia" is not Thai, it's a Chinese word which Thai / Chinese use between quite close friends and approximately translates as "brother" (although there does not need to be a blood relationship).

It's not really a term I would recommend using since, as I say, it suggests a close relationship between the persons - also if you use it to address an ethnic Thai (rather than a Thai / Chinese) you might cause a little offence.

Patrick

Important to note there is that the person titled 'Hia' is higher in the hirarchy, such as an elder brother, a foreman, etc, and not on equal level. The equivalent of this Chinese address of a woman is 'Jae'.

I do not use it because one tonal mistake, and you end up addressing this person with one of the worst insults in Thai language.

[Tywais]

I do not use it because one tonal mistake, and you end up addressing this person with one of the worst insults in Thai language.

Same here, definitely not a mistake you want to make if you value your teeth.

[Richard W]

I do not use it because one tonal mistake, and you end up addressing this person with one of the worst insults in Thai language.

Does this phonetic similarity have any connection with the depiction of Thaksin as a monitor lizard in the video of Ai Na Liam?

[ColPyat]

I do not use it because one tonal mistake, and you end up addressing this person with one of the worst insults in Thai language.

Does this phonetic similarity have any connection with the depiction of Thaksin as a monitor lizard in the video of Ai Na Liam?

Yeps.

Another such a form of Chinese address here i avoid is the very respectful 'Pa' for an older man. This could easily come out as 'Ba' - crazy.

[p_brownstone]

I do not use it because one tonal mistake, and you end up addressing this person with one of the worst insults in Thai language.

Does this phonetic similarity have any connection with the depiction of Thaksin as a monitor lizard in the video of Ai Na Liam?

To call someone “Ai Hia” in Thai is an insult – "Hia" is Thai for Monitor Lizard as you know – however the “insult” is particularly emphasised in the “Ai” word.

You can call someone “Ba” (crazy) or “Ngo” (stupid) etc. – none is particularly pejorative and can even be taken in jest. Even “Farang” is not particularly derogatory (despite attempts to infer that from some rather sensitive Farang here!).

However say “Ai Ba” or “Ai Ngo” or “Ai Farang” etc. and the comment takes on a whole new and offensive meaning.

Patrick

[topfield]

Thanks all.

I had been calling a Thai Chinese businessman I know Hia Pornchai thinking he would appreciate the respect I was showing for him, but clearly as I am not Thai Chinese nor close to him, he might in fact have found it insulting !

[eJai]

Thanks all.

I had been calling a Thai Chinese businessman I know Hia Pornchai thinking he would appreciate the respect I was showing for him, but clearly as I am not Thai Chinese nor close to him, he might in fact have found it insulting !

The word you're refering to is เฮีย ( hiia - pronouced with mid tone) which literately means elder brother in the Teochew dialect (Chinese).

Note that the wives of the older Teochew generation also address their husbands by the word hiia.

I think you shouldn't worry too much about it. If the Thai Chinese gentleman you addressed was Teochew, he would certainly understand that you meant to be respectful and would apprepriate it.

However, the different in age can make a lot of difference. If he is much older than you but younger than your father, you should address him as เจ๊ก (jehk - with high tone), if he is much older, for example, older than your father then you should address him as แป๊ะ (bpae - with high tone), anything less than that is considered as disrespectful. This status hirarchy business hold true for the female counterpart too.

Incidentally, it is not a norm for business associates to address each other with these terms, even amongs the Teochews. On top of that, do remember this, not all Chinese are Teochew and that Chinese of different dialect origins usuallly CANNOT understand each other verbally.

So, The bottom line is, steer clear of it if you ain't too sure.

[p_brownstone]

However, the different in age can make a lot of difference. If he is much older than you but younger than your father, you should address him as เจ๊ก (jehk - with high tone

My goodness eJai, you can't be serious!

If you are Thai you know how difficult it is for Farang to get tones right!

To address a Thai / Chinese as “Jek” could cause great offence – and the Farang will have little opportunity to say “whoops, sorry, wrong tone”!

My own firm advice is NOT to use that word at all.

Patrick

[p_brownstone]

Thanks all.

I had been calling a Thai Chinese businessman I know Hia Pornchai thinking he would appreciate the respect I was showing for him, but clearly as I am not Thai Chinese nor close to him, he might in fact have found it insulting !

If you know him quite well I am sure he would not be at all offended by the term and in fact would almost certainly take it as a friendly gesture.

Just one point – it’s not a “Title” as in “Mr,” or “Khun” etc., it’s more an informal term of address so one would not usually say “Hia Pornchai” as an alternative to “Khun Pornchai” when talking to him.

For example:

One might say

“Swasdee Khrap Khun Pornchai, sabai dee mai khrap”

Or, using the term “hia”

“ ‘wadee khrap hia, sabai dee rheu”

Or, possibly

“ ‘wadee hia, gin khao rhue yang”

all depending of course upon your closeness to the aforesaid Pornchai!

Patrick

[eJai]

However, the different in age can make a lot of difference. If he is much older than you but younger than your father, you should address him as เจ๊ก (jehk - with high tone

My goodness eJai, you can't be serious!

If you are Thai you know how difficult it is for Farang to get tones right!

To address a Thai / Chinese as "Jek" could cause great offence – and the Farang will have little opportunity to say "whoops, sorry, wrong tone"!

My own firm advice is NOT to use that word at all.

Patrick

Hi Patrick

There is really no cause for alarm when I brought up the word เจ๊ก (jehk). I was merely explaining how those terms are being used within the close knitted TeoChew community. The word เจ๊ก literally means uncle, you can look it up from this link http://www.thai-language.com/id/143590 , then again if it was used by someone from outside that circle, it could take on a different meaning. It could be a two ways sword.

I wasn't sugguesting anyone using it, especially farang, that's why I ended my post with a note urging topfield to steer clear of these terms.

Cheers

[yoot]

was Teochew, he would certainly understand that you meant to be respectful and would apprepriate it.

However, the different in age can make a lot of difference. If he is much older than you but younger than your father, you should address him as เจ๊ก (jehk - with high tone), if he is much older, for example, older than your father then you should address him as แป๊ะ (bpae - with high tone), anything less than that is considered as disrespectful. This status hirarchy business hold true for the female counterpart too.

Incidentally, it is not a norm for business associates to address each other with these terms, even amongs the Teochews. On top of that, do remember this, not all Chinese are Teochew and that Chinese of different dialect origins usuallly CANNOT understand each other verbally.

So, The bottom line is, steer clear of it if you ain't too sure.

With all due respect, as for being Chinese-Thai and can speck Teochew dialect, I would like to tell you that both words you mentioned แป๊ะ and เจ๊ก with high tone are considered as offensive for Chinese-Thai people. But if you can pronounce them correctly with low tone, then you will get what you want to say.

IMO, it's useless to address anyone as "Hia", "Jehk", "Bpae" or whatsoever you don't really know how to use it correctly and appropriately. The best term is "Khun" in most cases or "Taan" only with the ones you know that they are in high rank, if you don't know, no need to use it either.

[Neeranam]

I must admit I have used jek on a few occasions - when Chinese people say farang in a certain tone, I respond with jek - it's quite funny seeing the reaction. Got to be careful though.

[Khon Baan Nok]

Does this phonetic similarity have any connection with the depiction of Thaksin as a monitor lizard in the video of Ai Na Liam?

Yes it does.

The original name of the water monitor lizard is "thua hia". In Thai slang "ai hia" means something with insult value on the scale somewhere between "bastard" and "MF". Therefore the visual representation of someone as a water monitor is a way of saying...well, you take it from there.

Interestingly, "thua hia" has another name that has evolved in order to get away from people having to say "hia" at all. The animal is also known as "thua ngeun thua tawng", meaning "animal money animal gold".

Thai people flinch, cringe, titter or smirk when you talk about "thua hia", and quickly suggest that you revert to the money/gold term. I never use "thua hia" unless I'm playing with words, among people that know me.

[eJai]

With all due respect, as for being Chinese-Thai and can speck Teochew dialect, I would like to tell you that both words you mentioned แป๊ะ and เจ๊ก with high tone are considered as offensive for Chinese-Thai people. But if you can pronounce them correctly with low tone, then you will get what you want to say.

IMO, it's useless to address anyone as "Hia", "Jehk", "Bpae" or whatsoever you don't really know how to use it correctly and appropriately. The best term is "Khun" in most cases or "Taan" only with the ones you know that they are in high rank, if you don't know, no need to use it either.

Hi Yoot,

Thank you for clarification. So, can I assume that these terms pronounced with low tone are in fact originally spoken by the Teochew to show respect for their elders and the high tone pronunciations are derived by native Thai for derogatory means.

Correct me if my assumptions are wrong. Thanks.

[realthaideal]

I do not use it because one tonal mistake, and you end up addressing this person with one of the worst insults in Thai language.

Same here, definitely not a mistake you want to make if you value your teeth.

Yeah seriously dangerous stuff there. I just watched Hor Taew Dtaek yesterday - about some lady boys who own an apartment house that is haunted by ghosts that must be cleansed and placated. It's acrazy THai comedy that's at least half funny. But for sure you never heard so much bad lady boy talk in your life. Everything is 'Ee hiyah' this and 'Ee hiyah' that. So naughty. The translations are as brutal as the Thai language is. Serious dose of foul ass English. That alone gave a laugh too. See the subtitle version.

And just call your friend Pi and leave it at that.

[kenk3z]

I wonder if I have called my "Aunt" J. by mistake "crazy" J.

Looks like it would be very close. Baa J.

kenk3z

[meadish_sweetball]

ป้า = aunt ,

บ้า = crazy

Two distinct, different sounds, but it's true many foreigners pronounce ป as if it were บ.

If you do, "go" becomes "leaf", "aunt" becomes "crazy" etc.

[topfield]

ป้า = aunt ,

บ้า = crazy

Two distinct, different sounds, but it's true many foreigners pronounce ป as if it were บ.

If you do, "go" becomes "leaf", "aunt" becomes "crazy" etc.

So what's a crazy aunt ? Bah , bar [ black sheep have you any wool ] Correct tone ?

[meadish_sweetball]

ป้าบ้า ... and then there is the question of transcription.

I would write it /pâa bâa/ (Mary Haas/AUA system). Both words take falling tones and a long vowel sound.

The suggested system for this forum would use [F]paa [F]baa ...

and another popular system would give 'bpaa baa'

The ป is an unaspirated 'p' sound (not followed by a puff of air). The same /p/ sound as in spa...