Krap

[RAZZELL]

I was told by a thai in the UK that if you don't pronounce the "rrr" in "Krap" it's a bit "lo-so" or, as she said, like being a "Thai Chav"

Is that true? Or is it just a case of different dialects?

I've heard many people say "cap" with no "rrr" at all, or is it just laziness?

Khop khun krap

RAZZ

[sutnyod]

Is that true? Or is it just a case of different dialects?

I am a lot in Isaan and there men just say "kap". However, once they got their boss on the phone (or are in another, ehm "power situation") they tend to use "krap" with a VERY strong "RRRRRRRR"

Go figure...

[BambinA]

I was told by a thai in the UK that if you don't pronounce the "rrr" in "Krap" it's a bit "lo-so" or, as she said, like being a "Thai Chav"

Is that true? Or is it just a case of different dialects?

I've heard many people say "cap" with no "rrr" at all, or is it just laziness?

IMHO

1) laziness

2)anatomy of the tongue..some people cant pronouce RRRRR

3)the place that somebody comes from .Southern people can pronouce RRRR ,while isarn people can' do it properly

Edited March 17, 2007 by BambinA

[jeabsun]

ํIf you want to pronounce it correctly, you need to pronounce "ร". Actually, the sounds of "r" and "ร" are not exactly the same. But I think "r" is the closest sound to "ร" in Thai language. However, many people especially teenagers pronounce this word without "r" sound. So, in my opinion, it does not really mean that you are an uneducated or lo-so at all. But it would be better if you pronounce it correctly.

[Tywais]

IMHO

2)anatomy of the tongue..some people cant pronouce RRRRR

That's me Bambi. Studied Spanish for two years and never could trill my Rs while some could do it indefinitely. I find that I pronounce kh®ap depending on the situation. If in a casual conversation, fast speaking - the R sort of disappears. However when on the phone or talking with a poo-yai or first meeting some one, then the R is clearly pronounced. First example maybe the laziness you are referring to.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Scottish people can roll 'r's.

Another reason that Scots rock!!

[Johpa]

Around the world there are many flavors of the sound represented in English by the letter /r/. Some are trilled, some are retroflexed, and some are just plain odder than others. But although the sound is scarecely heard in the informal usage of khrap, it can still often be detected in the following vowel sound if you listen carefully.

It would be an interesting experiment to ask Thais to judge the word spoken informally by Thais against the same word spoken by Farangs who intentionally and completely leave out the /r/ in khrap to see if they hear a difference.

[pumpuiman]

When touring Thailand by van, our driver would never "roll" the r sound.

But would constantly correct my pronunciation with an exaggerated krrrrrrrap !

I don't roll......guess I should work on it. I always thought it was cooler to sound like the locals, not like a language tape.

But Bambina is a Goddess of good taste and culture.....so I'll try harder I promise.

FM

[PeaceBlondie]

If you ever studied Spanish, you learned two sounds. The single 'r' is spoken with the tip of the tongue reaching forward to the roof of the mouth, almost touching the front teeth. Scots have no problem; this is almost the normal 'r' sound for them. Some proper Brits, and natives of Boston who speak non-rhotically, leave off the sound and say that your car is in the park by saying, "Youah cah is in the pahk." The double /rr/ (pardon me for mis-using phonemic symbols), is a long trill as in burro,which some non-native speakers of Spanish never can say. I never hear a fully rolled double rr in Thailand, in contrast to Latin America, where you hear it often.

When I hear a single r sound such as th one in khrap in northern Thailand, it is similar to Spanish. In fact, when in doubt, I pronounce most foreign words in Spanish, and often I'm right on the mark!

In informal speech, Thais and I seem to leave out the /r/ sound. When I'm leaving a gated subdivision and the guard salutes me, I say "cop."

[withnail]

Without wanting to cause offence, saying that any Thai who pronounces khrap without the r is a 'chav' says more to me about your Thai friends snobbery than it does about the entire male population of Thailand.

Perhaps snobbery is a bit harsh and perhaps what your friend meant was pronouncing khrap without the r all the time in all situations but there is a tendency, I have noticed, to try and uphold what is considered proper Thai despite it being uncommon in everyday usage. A different example I noticed in class was when I said ปกติ and pronounced it bpòk-gà-dtì my teacher corrected it to bpàk-gà-dtì. Five minutes later when she said it it was pronounced bpòk-gà-dtì

In the notes in my Oxford River Books Eng - Thai dict it says that the r is gradually disappearing from present Thai as it is usually pronounced l. It also says when referring to consonant clusters that many Thai native speakers have difficulty pronouncing them.

I don't feel that my pronunciation of ร is very good but I haven't noticed anyone picking up on it. There are certainly more obvious and significant mistakes in foreigners Thai pronunciation.

[realthaideal]

"I was told by a thai in the UK that if you don't pronounce the "rrr" in "Krap" it's a bit "lo-so" or, as she said, like being a "Thai Chav"

Look.

This is as easy to understand as it is to say 'thank you' in English. If I'm on the street or among friends I might say 'thanks.' That's the equivalent of a simple 'kap.' Then if I'm doing business with some more formal Thai friends - the kind where you wear a long sleeve shirts and pants to visit - despite the heat, then I will most likley conclude things with a 'Kahp khun mak.' - a proper 'Thank you very much.' Now if I'm meeting heads of Universities, politicians, people with big businesses, Royal Projects people, I will do both the longer version and bring the roll of the 'r' in to some degree. When talking with these people pronunciation has to be much more clear, and little articles like 'na ?' which are very street and casual language have to be replaced with phrases 'chai hmai ?' So I'd be clear to end my meetings with these higher people - whether educated, elderly, or successful in business with a 'Khap khun krap' where the 'r' is audible.

To actually make a thing of rolling the 'r' is too much when Farang do it in most cases. And done in the worng circumstances. If you hear it int he wrong context it sounds like you got somehting up your %$^, or like some silly over-acted Monty Python Sketch of an old-English courtroom scene. People just done pull formality out at any given moment.

[grtaylor]

"I was told by a thai in the UK that if you don't pronounce the "rrr" in "Krap" it's a bit "lo-so" or, as she said, like being a "Thai Chav"

Look.

This is as easy to understand as it is to say 'thank you' in English. If I'm on the street or among friends I might say 'thanks.' That's the equivalent of a simple 'kap.' Then if I'm doing business with some more formal Thai friends - the kind where you wear a long sleeve shirts and pants to visit - despite the heat, then I will most likley conclude things with a 'Kahp khun mak.' - a proper 'Thank you very much.' Now if I'm meeting heads of Universities, politicians, people with big businesses, Royal Projects people, I will do both the longer version and bring the roll of the 'r' in to some degree. When talking with these people pronunciation has to be much more clear, and little articles like 'na ?' which are very street and casual language have to be replaced with phrases 'chai hmai ?' So I'd be clear to end my meetings with these higher people - whether educated, elderly, or successful in business with a 'Khap khun krap' where the 'r' is audible.

To actually make a thing of rolling the 'r' is too much when Farang do it in most cases. And done in the worng circumstances. If you hear it int he wrong context it sounds like you got somehting up your %$^, or like some silly over-acted Monty Python Sketch of an old-English courtroom scene. People just done pull formality out at any given moment.

. . . and what is a "Chav" please? Is my not knowing an indication that I've been here too long?

G

[meadish_sweetball]

definition chav ;

Chav is a derogatory slang term in popular usage throughout the UK. It refers to a subculture stereotype of a person who is uneducated, uncultured and prone to antisocial or immoral behaviour. The label is typically, though not exclusively, applied to teenagers and young adults of white working-class or lower-middle class origin. Chav is used for both sexes, where a male chav is sometimes referred to as a chavster and a female as a chavette.

...pasted from the net.

[Crash999]

Best to avoid the whole dilemma by using 'Kob jai lai der'