Progressives Sanders and Warren come under attack in Democratic debate

[Orton Rd]

Competing to see who gets to lose to Trump! that will be Biden of course.

[mikebike]

50 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 I actually believe in the UK system but it has to be PAID FOR at source from wages and salaries. It is only FREE at the point of delivery.

OK. You partially understand how universal health care works (it is also paid for by corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, and all other govt revenue streams, not just wages/salaries) What’s your actual point?

[Guitarzan]

I actually used to like Crazy Bernie like 10 years ago when he wanted to bring down the fed and talked the anti-establishment stuff.  I kinda liked him in the primaries... but what alarmed me was how easy he gave in to Hillary Clinton and emmideatly became a parrot for the Democrat party line. I think he lost the respect of many of his supporters at that time. 

 

Now I see Ole Bernie as a frustrated socialist who will say and do anything for a vote. He still thinks Trump colluded with Russia the ole <deleted> should know better than that. He’s lost all of his integrity, not that he ever had any. 

 

 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies about Denmark have been removed. 

 

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. 

[Jonah Tenner]

17 hours ago, riclag said:

The Robin Hood theory of taking from the rich and middle class and sharing it with the poor wouldn't sit well with the swing voters!

This is not what Robin Hood did. He took from the taxman and gave back to the overtaxed poor.

[Cryingdick]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

OK. You partially understand how universal health care works (it is also paid for by corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, and all other govt revenue streams, not just wages/salaries) What’s your actual point?

 

Why wouldn't the corporations just relocate and as such avoid the taxes?

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

OK. You partially understand how universal health care works (it is also paid for by corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, and all other govt revenue streams, not just wages/salaries) What’s your actual point?

The point is that it would virtually wipe out those money grabbing Ins companies, bleed the tax coffers dry and everyone would have to pay into the scheme. I'm not saying it's not a good thing I'm saying none of those weak willed Dems will, or could, do it. It would be such a gigantic change that I just don't see it happening. One of the biggest weaknesses of the NHS is medical free tourism and USA would be over-run with even more illegal immigrants wanting free health care. Chaos!

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

The point is that it would virtually wipe out those money grabbing Ins companies, bleed the tax coffers dry and everyone would have to pay into the scheme. I'm not saying it's not a good thing I'm saying none of those weak willed Dems will, or could, do it. It would be such a gigantic change that I just don't see it happening. One of the biggest weaknesses of the NHS is medical free tourism and USA would be over-run with even more illegal immigrants wanting free health care. Chaos!

 

I'm guessing you never accomplished much in your life. Life is full of obstacles. The best of us take them on and overcome them if at all possible. What we don't do is live a life of fear.

[lannarebirth]

Anyhow, I missed the first debate, but figure Warren and Sanders would pull away, which I think they did.  

 

I did watch the second debate and the thing that struck me was that the leaders in the polls at this debate looked like the people I'd be least likely to support.

 

I thought several of the "also rans" were smart, clear and had bold proposals that I think are achievable. Something that the US used to be great at, before we let the monied interests divide us and we turned on each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by lannarebirth

[metisdead]

Some more off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

 

A post commenting on moderation has been removed. 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

He will be lucky to be alive in 4 years with his anger issues. 

Right. Sanders is the one with anger issues. Not the obese Trump. Doublethink much?

[bristolboy]

28 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

The point is that it would virtually wipe out those money grabbing Ins companies, bleed the tax coffers dry and everyone would have to pay into the scheme. I'm not saying it's not a good thing I'm saying none of those weak willed Dems will, or could, do it. It would be such a gigantic change that I just don't see it happening. One of the biggest weaknesses of the NHS is medical free tourism and USA would be over-run with even more illegal immigrants wanting free health care. Chaos!

Universal health care doesn't have to be single payer. Some countries offer universal health care via private insurance. It's just a lot more strictly controlled to eliminate the bureaucratic nightmare of the US health care system where each company has its own forms and procedures. That creates a lot of employment for hospital bureaucrats but doesn't do much for the patients.

And the fact is that most Americans who get their insurance through employers are reasonably satisfied with it. And polls show that even Democrats aren't real thrilled about single payer. Better to have the medicare option which is very popular among voters and simplify how private insurance works.

 

 

[Guitarzan]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

OK. You partially understand how universal health care works (it is also paid for by corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, and all other govt revenue streams, not just wages/salaries) What’s your actual point?

Who pays corporate Taxes, Capitol gains tax, and other as you say government revenue streams?  The common people do. They buy stuff from corporations, the bill gets handed down to the middle class tax payers. Some how you think their is some magical pot of money some where only the rich posses? You tax corporations and the rich you are just passing the buck on to the middle class. 

 

This class war fare is the old communist tactic. Unfortunately it works. It’s human nature to hate people with more stuff than you, and human nature to want to take it from them. 

[watcharacters]

11 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Right. Sanders is the one with anger issues. Not the obese Trump. Doublethink much?

 

 

I believe Trump makes more people angry however.    At least he does me to me.

 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

I believe Trump makes more people angry however.    At least he does me to me.

 

That's a different issue. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by bristolboy

[bristolboy]

7 minutes ago, Guitarzan said:

Who pays corporate Taxes, Capitol gains tax, and other as you say government revenue streams?  The common people do. They buy stuff from corporations, the bill gets handed down to the middle class tax payers. Some how you think their is some magical pot of money some where only the rich posses? You tax corporations and the rich you are just passing the buck on to the middle class. 

 

This class war fare is the old communist tactic. Unfortunately it works. It’s human nature to hate people with more stuff than you, and human nature to want to take it from them. 

Nonsense. Corporations have so much money now they don't know what to do with it. Business investment rate is actually lower now than what it was under Obama. The American economy thrived when corporate rates were higher. Interest rates paid on accounts are low because there is too much money chasing too few investment opportunities.

[lannarebirth]

20 minutes ago, Guitarzan said:

 

This class war fare is the old communist tactic. Unfortunately it works. It’s human nature to hate people with more stuff than you, and human nature to want to take it from them. 

 

It's becoming increasingly clear that that is not a one way street. I've been watching the class warfare against the middle class for many years now. Don't tell me you haven't seen it. The numbers don't lie. Economic mobility in the US has done a 180 degree turn. Instead of lower income people becoming middle classand middle class becoming upwarly mobile, what's happening is that more and more middle class are joining the ranks of the lower income class. Nobody feels any sense of stability except the most affluent. Even they are distressed, in polls showing $5 Million isn't that much anymore.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It's becoming increasingly clear that that is not a one way street. I've been watching the class warfare against the middle class for many years now. Don't tell me you haven't seen it. The numbers don't lie. Economic mobility in the US has done a 180 degree turn. Instead of lower income people becoming middle classand middle class becoming upwarly mobile, what's happening is that more and more middle class are joining the ranks of the lower income class. Nobody feels any sense of stability except the most affluent. Even they are distressed, in polls showing $5 Million isn't that much anymore.

And yet there are some people who claim that Republicans and Democrats are equally to blame. And offer us analyses worthy to be featured on a Hallmark greeting card but nowhere else.

[lannarebirth]

27 minutes ago, Guitarzan said:

Who pays corporate Taxes, Capitol gains tax, and other as you say government revenue streams?  The common people do. They buy stuff from corporations, the bill gets handed down to the middle class tax payers. Some how you think their is some magical pot of money some where only the rich posses? You tax corporations and the rich you are just passing the buck on to the middle class. 

 

This class war fare is the old communist tactic. Unfortunately it works. It’s human nature to hate people with more stuff than you, and human nature to want to take it from them. 

 

If corporations actually INVESTED in their companies they'd be paying less taxes. Capital invetment is tax deductible. Instead they are bidding up their share price with buybacks. I remember when smart companies bought their stock back when it was below intrinsic value. Not so anymore. They buy it back at whatever price to make next quarter's earnings number and hope the reckoning doesn't come before the current management team gets their golden parachute.

[bristolboy]

17 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

If corporations actually INVESTED in their companies they'd be paying less taxes. Capital invetment is tax deductible. Instead they are bidding up their share price with buybacks. I remember when smart companies bought their stock back when it was below intrinsic value. Not so anymore. They buy it back at whatever price to make next quarter's earnings number and hope the reckoning doesn't come before the current management team gets their golden parachute.

They don't invest more in their companies because the opportunities aren't there. That's why business investment has gone down and buybacks and dividends are up.

[Cryingdick]

Well done to the dems going to Michigan and telling motor city USA they are going to get rid of cars. Nice circular firing squad action going on. The highlight of the evening was nothing more than a dumb remark about kool aid.