Retirement visa extension financial requirements

[gamini]

I find it extraordinary that so many posters on this forum seem to think that paying an agent to put money into your account to get a retirement visa is perfectly legal.
They don't seem to realise that the requirements for an extension is that you have sufficient funds to retire.  What is the point of this requirement if you can get anybody to put up the money  for you instead? It is rampant corruption. You are paying the agent to bribe an immigration officer to issue you with an extension without the proper requirements.
The government intends to put a stop to this and has already insisted that the full amount of  money be kept in your account for eight months and have bt400,000 for the balance four months. They hope that this will help put a stop to this practice. I can't see an agent getting around this easily. Apparently there are 20,000 expats using an agent to put the money in their accounts. I believe the fee is 20,000 which totals 400 million baht. So it's a case of massive corruption. I also understand that a lot of immigration staff are involved. It's going to take time to resolve this issue.
The same thing has happened with expats lying about their income to their embassies, hence the new requirements that these incomes be verified. It seems that all these people were breaking the law and trying to circumvent the requirements. It is because of them that it has become more difficult for genuine retirees. I have no sympathy for the former if their retirement extensions are cancelled. In my opinion they were illegally obtained.

[KiChakayan]

9 minutes ago, gamini said:

I find it extraordinary that so many posters on this forum seem to think that paying an agent to put money into your account to get a retirement visa is perfectly legal.

I pointed out to some higher authority, that the "agent bypass" was being vastly promoted here. And the answer I got was: "Is it really illegal?". In my head I could help adding "T.I.T".

Edited August 3, 2019 by KiChakayan

[Pilotman]

They somehow convince themselves that it is all legal and above board, and if it's not, that it's  somehow officially sanctioned by Immigration and that too many IOs are involved for it ever to stop. They are wrong of course, but you try telling them that.  I would not at all be surprised for it all to fall around the various ears at some point, out of spite maybe on the part of some officials in positions of power, or just because they want the agents out of it, so that the funds stay in the Thai banking system. When that happens, and it will happen, all those who have illegally gained an extension will be out on their ear and probably facing a ban for some years, 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Pilotman

[wilailuk]

OP wrote: "I also understand that a lot of immigration staff are involved. It's going to take time to resolve this issue."

 

Will never happen, get used to it, this is Thailand, a very corrupt country..

 

 

[from the home of CC]

 Due to the fact that corruption in immigration is a danger to any country's national security, this will eventually be dealt with in due time. Once they realize that corruption is continuing in spite of the seasoning tweaks part 2 will be along shortly. Hopefully they give those involved/caught up an opportunity to extend their visas in an aboveboard manner.

[Lamkyong]

the uk embassy requirement was for original documents as proof of claimed income so i do not see why the service was terminated  like no copies and updated yearly  the embassy could easily have confirmed this with work and pensions uk

[sunnyboy2018]

28 minutes ago, wilailuk said:

OP wrote: "I also understand that a lot of immigration staff are involved. It's going to take time to resolve this issue."

 

Will never happen, get used to it, this is Thailand, a very corrupt country..

 

 

Agents work with IO staff, who 'put the money in the bank'. 

[sunnyboy2018]

41 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

They somehow convince themselves that it is all legal and above board, and if it's not, that it's  somehow officially sanctioned by Immigration and that too many IOs are involved for it ever to stop. They are wrong of course, but you try telling them that.  I would not at all be surprised for it all to fall around the various ears at some point, out of spite maybe on the part of some officials in positions of power, or just because they want the agents out of it, so that the funds stay in the Thai banking system. When that happens, and it will happen, all those who have illegally gained an extension will be out on their ear and probably facing a ban for some years, 

Many people seem to overlook that we use agents due to convenience not poverty. Im tired of judgemental posts tinged with sanctimony . My monthly and yearly income exceeds the requirements but the income stream does not meet the unimaginative definition of pension by the IO. This kind of beneficial corruption exists when and where laws are not for purpose. It is functional not dysfunctional. Regarding those critics including the OP. Its not your business. 

[Puchaiyank]

"Rampant corruption" you say?  My dear fellow, there is NO corruption in Thailand...mind you gifts are generally accepted...????

[Jip99]

What a foolish thread.

 

Turkeys rarely vote for Christmas.

 

There are too many interested parties, earning too much money from this corrupt process; they have no incentive to stop this practice.

[jimn]

OP I have never used an agent and always have proved my income via a British Embassy income letter, all above board after showing them my income. However with the strong baht and the low pound it is becoming increasingly hard for people as the income required far a retirement extension has become for some impossible to meet. I am not prepared or able to transfer 65,000 baht a month to meet the requirements nor am I able to keep 800,000 in a Thai bank account. I need my money in the UK when I stay there for 5 months. What I am getting round to saying is that I will keep the option of using an agent open if I need it. What you fail to understand is that it is not illegal. The fact is the a senior immigration officer within the office that the agent uses is able to wiave the the requirement for the stated 800,000 and issue the visa. It is a money earner for them all and it will never stop. Just look at what happened to Big Joke when he tried to do so. Whatever you think you believe I can assure you is not right. The country is Thailand not the UK, USA or Australia, remember that.

[Maestro]

31 minutes ago, Lamkyong said:

the uk embassy requirement was for original documents as proof of claimed income so i do not see why the service was terminated  like no copies and updated yearly  the embassy could easily have confirmed this with work and pensions uk

 

Are you sure that the UK Department of Work and Pensions is free to divulge this information to the Thai embassy?

[wreckingcountry]

Oh the OP is on a rant ! “Rampant corruption “ Where else you want to investigate, CID officer ?


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[yodsak]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

The government intends to put a stop to this and has already insisted that the full amount of  money be kept in your account for eight months and have bt400,000 for the balance four months. They hope that this will help put a stop to this practice. I can't see an agent getting around this easily.

The new rules came in in March.   Hasn't made the slightest bit of difference apart from increased use of agents.   If they wanted it stopped they would stop it.

[brokenbone]

the io didnt accept my pension letter,

and none of her additional invented proofs either.

i'll use an agent until im fit to leave.

agree it sucks to pay 10 x extra, but relocating with pain suck a whole lot more, and pain is my only priority,

when it comes to it

[Lamkyong]

35 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

Are you sure that the UK Department of Work and Pensions is free to divulge this information to the Thai embassy?

I am sure if a form of consent disclosure were given I do not see why not

[Number 6]

This will end in tears as did the embassy document scam. Then all sorts of anguish and outpouring of anger. Old men with little money but lots of entitlement.

[treetops]

47 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Are you sure that the UK Department of Work and Pensions is free to divulge this information to the Thai embassy?

It would be the British Embassy in Thailand that required the information, not a Thai Embassy.  Even if UK state pension information could be communicated, lots of people have other income sources which would prove more problematic, and essentially unverifiable, which is why some are now in a pickle.

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Many people seem to overlook that we use agents due to convenience not poverty. Im tired of judgemental posts tinged with sanctimony . My monthly and yearly income exceeds the requirements but the income stream does not meet the unimaginative definition of pension by the IO. This kind of beneficial corruption exists when and where laws are not for purpose. It is functional not dysfunctional. Regarding those critics including the OP. Its not your business. 

Nonsense.  The law is the law,  you can't twist it in your own mind to suit your own circumstances, just because its a tad inconvenient for you personally.   Following the law of the land is hardly sanctimonious, nor is pointing that out to others who may be unaware of the risks involved in using an agent to produce the funds illegally. And what is this 'beneficial corruption' you wrote of? I've never heard breaking the law and fraud described by anyone as 'beneficial', except from those who otherwise benefit from that kind of illegal activity.  

Edited August 3, 2019 by Pilotman

[giddyup]

14 hours ago, wilailuk said:

OP wrote: "I also understand that a lot of immigration staff are involved. It's going to take time to resolve this issue."

 

Will never happen, get used to it, this is Thailand, a very corrupt country..

 

 

Wishful thinking.

[flyvnsky]

   16 hours ago,  gamini said: 

The government intends to put a stop to this and has already insisted that the full amount of  money be kept in your account for eight months and have bt400,000 for the balance four months. They hope that this will help put a stop to this practice. I can't see an agent getting around this easily.

 

 

 

Gamini you are not quite correct about the time the money has to remain in an account.

If you have been granted an extension for the purpose of retirement, THB800k or more must have been in account for 2 months before application for extension.  THB800k or more must then remain in account for three months after.

The amount may then be reduced to THB400k for 7 months and increased again to THB800k or more 2 months BEFORE next renewal application.

 

If or how this is checked by Immigration seems to be up to each office!  No doubt we will hear more before March 2020.

 

I am not convinced it is illegal to use an agent as somewhere in the law I believe it says that the financial requirements can be waived at the discretion of a senior officer.

I know not how the agent persuades an officer to do this.........?

[Thingamabob]

16 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Many people seem to overlook that we use agents due to convenience not poverty. Im tired of judgemental posts tinged with sanctimony . My monthly and yearly income exceeds the requirements but the income stream does not meet the unimaginative definition of pension by the IO. This kind of beneficial corruption exists when and where laws are not for purpose. It is functional not dysfunctional. Regarding those critics including the OP. Its not your business. 

This doesn't make sense, although it does confirm you are breaking the law which is bad news for those of us who follow the rules. Go straight or get out.

[mikebike]

16 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

but the income stream does not meet the unimaginative definition of pension by the IO.

I know there are plenty of inter-office variations but this seems strange... my income is from property rental in my home country but it is considered pension income...

[TheThai]

15 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Nonsense.  The law is the law, 

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand.  Do you also advocate the stopping/partaking of bar activities.  since the LAW IS THE LAW.  How do the bars exist ???? corruption.

It seems selective outrage with those who preach anti-corruption when applied to immigration but then go to bars where the same corruption is applied.

[Tony125]

OP you don't seem to realise that before doing away with the verification letters (for Brits, USA,and AUS) we only needed to show we recived a pension or other financial income to get the year retirement extension. Now we actually have to bring that money into Thailand every month. Before I might transfer 120--150 thousand baht 1 month only 45,000 baht another. The 800,000 baht we deposited was supposed to be used to live on while we are here. Now of the 800,000 baht we can never touch/use 400,000 baht of it and 800,000 can't be used for 5 months. Just a way to keep foreign currency locked up in low interest paying Thai banks.

[wgdanson]

17 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

the embassy could easily have confirmed this with work and pensions uk

You are assuming that all the retiree's money was coming from th UK government. Private pension, rental incomes, etc. needed to be taken into account.

I get a feeling of deja vu !

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

OP you don't seem to realise that before doing away with the verification letters (for Brits, USA,and AUS) we only needed to show we recived a pension or other financial income to get the year retirement extension. Now we actually have to bring that money into Thailand every month. Before I might transfer 120--150 thousand baht 1 month only 45,000 baht another. The 800,000 baht we deposited was supposed to be used to live on while we are here. Now of the 800,000 baht we can never touch/use 400,000 baht of it and 800,000 can't be used for 5 months. Just a way to keep foreign currency locked up in low interest paying Thai banks.

Better to keep it in a Foreign Currency Account in GBP/USD/EUR while the Baht is so high.

[wgdanson]

15 hours ago, treetops said:

It would be the British Embassy in Thailand that required the information, not a Thai Embassy.  Even if UK state pension information could be communicated, lots of people have other income sources which would prove more problematic, and essentially unverifiable, which is why some are now in a pickle.

They must have other income sources because the UK State Pension is nowhere near 65k or £1750 a month.

Edited August 4, 2019 by wgdanson

[paddyfield7]

1 hour ago, flyvnsky said:

   16 hours ago,  gamini said: 

The government intends to put a stop to this and has already insisted that the full amount of  money be kept in your account for eight months and have bt400,000 for the balance four months. They hope that this will help put a stop to this practice. I can't see an agent getting around this easily.

 

 

 

Gamini you are not quite correct about the time the money has to remain in an account.

If you have been granted an extension for the purpose of retirement, THB800k or more must have been in account for 2 months before application for extension.  THB800k or more must then remain in account for three months after.

The amount may then be reduced to THB400k for 7 months and increased again to THB800k or more 2 months BEFORE next renewal application.

 

If or how this is checked by Immigration seems to be up to each office!  No doubt we will hear more before March 2020.

 

I am not convinced it is illegal to use an agent as somewhere in the law I believe it says that the financial requirements can be waived at the discretion of a senior officer.

I know not how the agent persuades an officer to do this.........?

good someone puts Gamini's obvious mistakes straight! 2 month before and 3 after, and never below 400k.

[Pilotman]

48 minutes ago, TheThai said:

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand.  Do you also advocate the stopping/partaking of bar activities.  since the LAW IS THE LAW.  How do the bars exist ???? corruption.

It seems selective outrage with those who preach anti-corruption when applied to immigration but then go to bars where the same corruption is applied.

I'm not responsible for enforcing the law here, take your point up with those that are, I just abide by it.