Retirement visa extension financial requirements

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory off topic post has been removed.

[Pilotman]

18 hours ago, wilailuk said:

OP wrote: "I also understand that a lot of immigration staff are involved. It's going to take time to resolve this issue."

 

Will never happen, get used to it, this is Thailand, a very corrupt country..

 

 

It's precisely because there is a lot of corruption here that it will, at some time, be stamped out.  Too many people in power are out of the loop on the kickbacks and that is always an engine  for change. In addition, the agents are stopping the Thai banking system gaining ever more funds into farang accounts, that have to stay there for a long periods of time. That powerful  and wealthy banking lobby group will not put up for much longer with having that money reduced by mere agents and their corrupt immigration  mates. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Pilotman

[xylophone]

19 hours ago, wilailuk said:

OP wrote: "I also understand that a lot of immigration staff are involved. It's going to take time to resolve this issue."

 

Will never happen, get used to it, this is Thailand, a very corrupt country..

 

 

I was discussing this very subject with a friend who has lived here for 16 years and also spends a lot of time at his parents home in Malaysia – – and by the way, he says Malaysia is just as corrupt, if not more corrupt than Thailand!

 

He has an interesting viewpoint on this inasmuch as corruption is endemic in Thailand and has been for decades if not centuries and it is woven into the fabric of the society here, and is generally accepted as part of everyday life (as several surveys have shown), so is not seen as anything "bad" or out of the ordinary, just something that Thais live with, practice and make the most of.

 

It is the farangs who constantly come onto the forums like this and rail against the use of agents for the purposes of immigration and getting round the lump sum in the bank methodology, not the Thais, because for them it is part of doing everyday business and I can't see it ending any time soon, not after perhaps centuries of indoctrination.

 

Taking a broader perspective, the bars and nightclubs pay "tea money", as do many other establishments of various descriptions; the taxis and the tuk tuk also pay it; developers pay it.........and I will repeat this, that it is woven into the fabric of the culture and society here and because of this it is highly unlikely that it will stop in our lifetimes.

 

IMO those folk who are going to use agents for their "retirement extensions" will more than likely be safe for another few hundred years! 

[TSF]

I've used the same agent to do my annual retirement extension for the past decade. I've always used the bank balance method as I've always had a balance in excess of 800K thb. So no corruption, no breaking regulations, everything is kosher. I just can't be bothered dealing with Immigration myself. I prefer to pay a professional to do it for me, and I get fast friendly service. 

[zydeco]

17 hours ago, Pilotman said:

The law is the law,  you can't twist it in your own mind to suit your own circumstances, just because its a tad inconvenient for you personally. 

So tell me how many Thai government agencies including immigration are using entirely licensed software on their computers? How about that immigration video with the Henry Mancini music in the soundtrack? License? How many people at Thai government agencies downloading material that is copyrighted? Would like to know. Prosecutions? After all, the law is the law.

[roquefort]

19 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

the uk embassy requirement was for original documents as proof of claimed income so i do not see why the service was terminated  like no copies and updated yearly  the embassy could easily have confirmed this with work and pensions uk

The British Embassy would never have got off their fat <deleted> to confirm anything with anybody (even if they were allowed to disclose the information). As soon as the heat was turned up they were quite happy to roll over and stop just about the only useful service they provided to UK expats. 

[Pilotman]

16 minutes ago, zydeco said:

So tell me how many Thai government agencies including immigration are using entirely licensed software on their computers? How about that immigration video with the Henry Mancini music in the soundtrack? License? How many people at Thai government agencies downloading material that is copyrighted? Would like to know. Prosecutions? After all, the law is the law.

I'm not google mate, do your own research and what has that got to do with anything at all, and especially this subject. 

[ThaiBunny]

20 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

the uk embassy requirement was for original documents as proof of claimed income so i do not see why the service was terminated  like no copies and updated yearly  the embassy could easily have confirmed this with work and pensions uk

And for those UK citizens with non-UK income?

[Lamkyong]

15 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

And for those UK citizens with non-UK income?

Nothing to confirm in that case

[Pilotman]

58 minutes ago, TSF said:

I've used the same agent to do my annual retirement extension for the past decade. I've always used the bank balance method as I've always had a balance in excess of 800K thb. So no corruption, no breaking regulations, everything is kosher. I just can't be bothered dealing with Immigration myself. I prefer to pay a professional to do it for me, and I get fast friendly service. 

That is fair enough and as you say, perfectly legal. 

[gamini]

3 hours ago, TheThai said:

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand.  Do you also advocate the stopping/partaking of bar activities.  since the LAW IS THE LAW.  How do the bars exist ???? corruption.

It seems selective outrage with those who preach anti-corruption when applied to immigration but then go to bars where the same corruption is applied.

we dont all go to bars.  They are requented by the type of farangs I gtry to avoid

[Joe Mcseismic]

Just now, gamini said:

we dont all go to bars.  They are requented by the type of farangs I gtry to avoid

Your loss.

[Nowisee]

The first year I had to do an extension, thai immigration would not accept my pension document.  Very easy document to read.  Name, monthly income.  

A 5th grader could compile this data.

The thai consulate in usa accepted it as proof of income, but immigration could not handle this very simple task.  
 

There's still the unanswered question, just what are the other embassies doing that makes immigration so happy?

 

[malibukid]

20 hours ago, treetops said:

It would be the British Embassy in Thailand that required the information, not a Thai Embassy.  Even if UK state pension information could be communicated, lots of people have other income sources which would prove more problematic, and essentially unverifiable, which is why some are now in a pickle.

they do not care about dividends or interest accrued from overseas accounts.  they want money in their bank at a pitiful interest rate. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by malibukid

[Cricky]

21 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Many people seem to overlook that we use agents due to convenience not poverty. Im tired of judgemental posts tinged with sanctimony . My monthly and yearly income exceeds the requirements but the income stream does not meet the unimaginative definition of pension by the IO. This kind of beneficial corruption exists when and where laws are not for purpose. It is functional not dysfunctional. Regarding those critics including the OP. Its not your business. 

Why did you bother posting, he's not referring to your situation. 

Chill dude,keep your hat on. 

[sniggie]

22 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

the uk embassy requirement was for original documents as proof of claimed income so i do not see why the service was terminated  like no copies and updated yearly  the embassy could easily have confirmed this with work and pensions uk

Simple. Cost saving. You are right to state that the UK system was not the same as the affidavit system used by the US and Oz but I am pretty certain that the FCO jumped on the bandwagon to save money. In some email replies they actually stated that the letters were shopped 'following an audit'. With the remainder of the countries' embassies still issuing letters, some still using affidavits(?), there was clearly no reason not to continue. Mind you, the Thai authorities might secretly enjoy putting the majority of the anglophones through the wringer. Paranoid - me?

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

Taking a broader perspective, the bars and nightclubs pay "tea money", as do many other establishments of various descriptions; the taxis and the tuk tuk also pay it; developers pay it.........and I will repeat this, that it is woven into the fabric of the culture and society here and because of this it is highly unlikely that it will stop in our lifetimes.

Just as an addendum to my earlier post, and one which again was mentioned by my friend in the discussion we were having, was the fact that, in his words, "he was just fitting into the way that Thailand does business".

 

Thailand is corrupt from the top to the bottom and there are so many instances of this, that I don't really need to list them, but suffice it to say that if the folk that control the country, down to those in immigration and those who look after the "law of the land" are simply adhering to the "way that Thailand does business", then I doubt very much whether anything untoward will happen to a farang who decides to use an agent for his immigration processes, whatever they may be.

 

He is simply adhering to the "Thai way" (nicely put by that friend of mine).

[Naam]

Quote

Pilotman said:

The law is the law,

yawwnnn...

[anchadian]

OP

Do you have links for the following?  I very much doubt it.  Your quotes.

 

'The government intends to put a stop to this'. 

'Apparently there are 20,000 expats using an agent to put the money in their accounts'.

Edited August 4, 2019 by anchadian

[Naam]

Quote

Apparently there are 20,000 expats using an agent to put the money in their accounts'.

= highly likely rubbish.

[OJAS]

21 hours ago, treetops said:

It would be the British Embassy in Thailand that required the information, not a Thai Embassy.  Even if UK state pension information could be communicated, lots of people have other income sources which would prove more problematic, and essentially unverifiable, which is why some are now in a pickle.

 

6 hours ago, wgdanson said:

You are assuming that all the retiree's money was coming from th UK government. Private pension, rental incomes, etc. needed to be taken into account.

I get a feeling of deja vu !

 

State Pension income should, in my view, be easily verifiable by the British Embassy in a matter of seconds by merely punching our NI number into a secure online link which they had established with the DWP.

 

Likewise, occupational pension income stated in the end-of-tax-year P60 certificates we receive from our pension providers should be capable of being verified through a separate secure online link between the Embassy and HMRC, through a reconciliation with figures contained in the annual payroll monitoring reports which our pension providers are required (as quasi-employers) to supply to HMRC:-

 

https://www.gov.uk/payroll-annual-reporting

 

IMHO it is inexcusable that the British Embassy are not, it would seem, planning to follow in the footsteps of their Danish counterparts (who appear to have succeeded in using their collective imagination to devise a suitably-modified version of their previously-withdrawn income confirmation service, which meets Immigration Bureau verification requirements), but, instead, appear merely content to continue shrugging their shoulders and uttering pathetic BS comments such as “We are not verification experts”.

 

That all said, I do accept that there are certain types of income, such as UK property rents, which the Embassy would simply not, in practice, be able to verify without incurring disproportionate effort in all probability.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by OJAS

[Lamkyong]

the most sensible/realistic reply to date thanks

[lungbing]

I very much doubt that stopping the letter from the British Embassy was a cost saving measure.  At over 50 quid a time it was a money maker.

[usmike]

No FFT transfer Now

 

The Bank situation is getting worse.  I have been unsuccessful in completing a FFT transfer for the last three months.  I have used my bank, Wells Fargo and two independeint companies, Transferwise and Xe.  Same situation each time, i transfer 65000 baht to Bangkok Bank but somewhere along the line, funds get sent to Kasikorn Bank and they take 500/600 baht off the transfer amount,  they then complete the transfer after waiting 5 working days and it is rcorded in the Bangkok Bank as a local funds transfer (Not an FFT).   Does not meet Thai immigration money amount nor foreign funds transfer requirement. this means no retirment visa extension. Great Scam they get  foreign funds but not recorded as FFT and you lose your visa at renewal time.   I questioned the teams at the immigation office and was told not to worry, just pay 20K special fee not need money or paper get 1 year extension..   of course the 800K method is still available if you do not mind putting $25K in the bank for a year.

 

Time to seek another place to live, haha  Big Joke made a real Big Joke.

[yodsak]

38 minutes ago, usmike said:

No FFT transfer Now

Send it SWIFT.

[Captain 776]

Lived here 14 yrs.

Never used an agent.

Never had any problem.

 

cant understand WHY anyone wants to pay an agent several thousand BHAT just to make copies for you.

You still have to sign each copy

You still have to go to immigration.

 

especially now......its so efficient.......paying an agent is total waste of money.

Renewed Retirement in Chiang Mai with Multiple Entry........40 minutes.......no agents

[Suradit69]

On August 3, 2019 at 7:13 PM, wilailuk said:

OP wrote: "I also understand that a lot of immigration staff are involved. It's going to take time to resolve this issue."

 

Will never happen, get used to it, this is Thailand, a very corrupt country..

 

 

Even more startling is how many farang seem to believe the police, courts, bureaucracy, etc in their own countries are free of corruption and that everyone in those countries is treated equally, without fear or favor.

 

The amount of corruption, certainly based on financial amounts, in Thailand pales in comparison to places like London or Washington. All the major western banks, for example, pay billions each year for their violations of law and these bribes are considered normal business expenses. And I doubt anyone could claim wealthy or poor people receive equal treatment in western legal systems. That special treatment for the special people is very expensive.

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Suradit69

[yodsak]

3 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

 

 

cant understand WHY anyone wants to pay an agent several thousand BHAT just to make copies for you.

 

They pay them several thousand baht to supply 800k   [allegedly]

[OJAS]

On 8/4/2019 at 7:39 PM, lungbing said:

I very much doubt that stopping the letter from the British Embassy was a cost saving measure.  At over 50 quid a time it was a money maker.

Agreed - more likely an effort-saving decision taken by a bunch of unimaginative diplomats obssessed with the easy life, I strongly suspect.

[Naam]

17 hours ago, yodsak said:

20 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

cant understand WHY anyone wants to pay an agent several thousand BHAT just to make copies for you.

They pay them several thousand baht to supply 800k   [allegedly]

i think that's a misconception. i know a number of people (and that includes me) who use agents to handle extensions as well as 90day reports but based on matching all legal requirements, i.e. 800k in a Thai bank.

 

the answer to the Captain's "don't understand why thousands of Baht" is "because they can." as simple as that.