Illegal Police Stop

[PST]

Drove past a traffic cop on his bike today on my bike, we were both heading towards a set of traffic lights that were off and not working, after I passed through them, about 200 yards further on he started beeping his horn at me to pull over.

 

We both pulled over and he said I had ran a red light, I explained to him in Thai that the lights weren't working, and he then said he was fining me for no helmet. He wrote me a ticket, and on the ticket I have also been fined for no license, even though I have an IDP which he never asked for.

 

My question is, is the procedure he used correct?

[JimmyTheMook]

Where was this?

[PST]

Phuket.

[Briggsy]

2 minutes ago, PST said:

My question is, is the procedure he used correct?

Wrong question. This is not the West. Nobody cares about procedure. There is no due process.

 

You have 2 choices.

 

Don't pay it. See what happens. In the past, very often, absolutely nothing happened. Their systems may be better now. 

 

Pay it. 

 

 

[colinneil]

PST how was it an illegal stop?

You say he booked you for no helmet, well that would be correct.

You also state he wrote a ticket, so it was not a stop for scamming money, so what is the problem?

[CharlieH]

If you had no helmet he had reasonable grounds to stop you. As for the no licence, take it with you to the cop shop when paying your fine.Dont see any scam, possibly a misunderstanding.

[Just Weird]

Yes, as you were riding illegally, he was perfectly within his rights to issue you a ticket for having no helmet. 

[johng]

3 minutes ago, PST said:

My question is, is the procedure he used correct?

So you where not wearing a helmet ?..go to the police station and show them your IDP  then they will probably only fine you for "no helmet"

[PST]

Just now, Briggsy said:

Wrong question. This is not the West. Nobody cares about procedure. There is no due process.

 

You have 2 choices.

 

Don't pay it. See what happens. In the past, very often, absolutely nothing happened. Their systems may be better now. 

 

Pay it. 

 

 

Thanks, lived here for 17 years, never been stopped apart from at Checkpoints. Procedure needs to be adhered too in my opinion, and I know plenty of Thais who would argue the toss if it had been them

[PST]

1 minute ago, colinneil said:

PST how was it an illegal stop?

You say he booked you for no helmet, well that would be correct.

You also state he wrote a ticket, so it was not a stop for scamming money, so what is the problem?

I was just asking the question,,,wasn't sure,,,so it is fairly common in Thailand for the police to pull up alongside you and ask you to stop for not wearing a helmet?,,,,ive never seen or heard of it in the 17 years ive lived here.

[CharlieH]

Just now, PST said:

I was just asking the question,,,wasn't sure,,,so it is fairly common in Thailand for the police to pull up alongside you and ask you to stop for not wearing a helmet?,,,,ive never seen or heard of it in the 17 years ive lived here.

Possibly not, but may be that cop is new, and does things differently. Fact is you were illegal and got stopped. 17yrs means nothing.

[PST]

3 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Possibly not, but may be that cop is new, and does things differently. Fact is you were illegal and got stopped. 17yrs means nothing.

No, not a new cop, I see him daily. To me, its obvious he thought I was a tourist, and tried to fine me for running a red light, once I explained to him in Thai that the traffic lights weren't working, he then fined me for no helmet and no license, even though he never asked me for my license and my IDP was under the seat.

[stevenl]

Just now, PST said:

No, not a new cop, I see him daily. To me, its obvious he thought I was a tourist, and tried to fine me for running a red light, once I explained to him in Thai that the traffic lights weren't working, he then fined me for no helmet and no license, even though he never asked me for my license and my IDP was under the seat.

If you live here a Thai license is required. So he was also correct about the 'riding without license'.

[spidermike007]

It does not matter. The police are above the law. Any and all laws. They are franchisees, and they operate of their own accord, with complete and total protection, from the top down.

 

Best thing you can do, is to resist. I do it all the time. I am not paying the fine. Do what you need to do. Let me talk to your captain, take me to the station, lock me up, do what you want to do. Usually they just leave me alone. They are looking for easy marks, who do not give them a hard time. I would never do this in the US. I would probably get shot. But here, the police are very, very weak. 

[PST]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

If you live here a Thai license is required. So he was also correct about the 'riding without license'.

License wasn't even mentioned, just written as a fine, and an IDP is fine, used one for the last 12 years.

[Handsome Gardener]

The thais are serially lambasted for their appalling road fatality figures, then westerners complain they get tickets for wearing no helmet !!

 

Maybe westerners have thicker heads ?

[wgdanson]

3 minutes ago, PST said:

No, not a new cop, I see him daily. To me, its obvious he thought I was a tourist, and tried to fine me for running a red light, once I explained to him in Thai that the traffic lights weren't working, he then fined me for no helmet and no license, even though he never asked me for my license and my IDP was under the seat.

Why did you not take the IDP from under your seat when you saw the ticket?

[CharlieH]

1 minute ago, PST said:

No, not a new cop, I see him daily. To me, its obvious he thought I was a tourist, and tried to fine me for running a red light, once I explained to him in Thai that the traffic lights weren't working, he then fined me for no helmet and no license, even though he never asked me for my license and my IDP was under the seat.

It doesn't matter what his motivation was, if you had been wearing a helmet as you should have been he would have nowhere to go that couldn't be reasonably disputed. Pay the helmet fine and move on.

[PST]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

It does not matter. The police are above the law. Any and all laws. They are franchisees, and they operate of their own accord, with complete and total protection, from the top down.

 

Best thing you can do, is to resist. I do it all the time. I am not paying the fine. Do what you need to do. Let me talk to your captain, take me to the station, lock me up, do what you want to do. Usually they just leave me alone. They are looking for easy marks, who do not give them a hard time. I would never do this in the US. I would probably get shot. But here, the police are very, very weak. 

Thanks, the type of answer I am looking for. Already made a phone call to higher rank, and is being dealt with as we speak.

Cheers.

[NanLaew]

8 minutes ago, PST said:

Thanks, lived here for 17 years, never been stopped apart from at Checkpoints.

Good innings! I assume you've always had license, tax and a helmet on your head at these checkpoints.

 

9 minutes ago, PST said:

Procedure needs to be adhered too in my opinion, and I know plenty of Thais who would argue the toss if it had been them

It is the foreigner that needs to adhere to the many and variable facets of what passes for procedure here. Like me, you probably know many locals that would say that they'd argue the toss when in reality, they would probably stop and pay.

 

The motorbike cop was on the 'opportunist' stop procedure.

 

i ) He sees a farang so he pulled up alongside and asked you to stop. You stopped so he's on a roll.

 

ii ) He said you ran a red light which didn't exist. You were savvy enough to say there wasn't one and he was savvy enough to see that so he went to DEVCON 2.

 

iii ) You are riding without a helmet. Fair cop. One would have to be living in a somewhat different universe for the past 17 years to think that this would never happen.

 

Anyhow, since the motorbike cop hasn't seized anything, not even the IDP he never asked to see but says doesn't exist, then did the OP pay the fine there and then?

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, PST said:

License wasn't even mentioned, just written as a fine, and an IDP is fine, used one for the last 12 years.

Using it for 12 years doesn't mean it is legal.

[PST]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Good innings! I assume you've always had license, tax and a helmet on your head at these checkpoints.

 

It is the foreigner that needs to adhere to the many and variable facets of what passes for procedure here. Like me, you probably know many locals that would say that they'd argue the toss when in reality, they would probably stop and pay.

 

The motorbike cop was on the 'opportunist' stop procedure.

 

i ) He sees a farang so he pulled up alongside and asked you to stop. You stopped so he's on a roll.

 

ii ) He said you ran a red light which didn't exist. You were savvy enough to say there wasn't one and he was savvy enough to see that so he went to DEVCON 2.

 

iii ) You are riding without a helmet. Fair cop. One would have to be living in a somewhat different universe for the past 17 years to think that this would never happen.

 

Anyhow, since the motorbike cop hasn't seized anything, not even the IDP he never asked to see but says doesn't exist, then did the OP pay the fine there and then?

No, he drove off rather quickly once he saw I was making a call, he never asked for my license, so why would I show him it?,

[colinneil]

16 minutes ago, PST said:

I was just asking the question,,,wasn't sure,,,so it is fairly common in Thailand for the police to pull up alongside you and ask you to stop for not wearing a helmet?,,,,ive never seen or heard of it in the 17 years ive lived here.

You say that you have lived here 17 years, so he was correct, you were driving without a license.

IDPs are only valid for 1 year, Thailand only recognises them for 90 days.

Living here all that time you should be aware that farangs should drive correctly, wear helmets, do not draw attention to yourself, you brought the problem on yourself.

[PST]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Using it for 12 years doesn't mean it is legal.

Depends what visa you are on.

[PST]

1 minute ago, colinneil said:

You say that you have lived here 17 years, so he was correct, you were driving without a license.

IDPs are only valid for 1 year, Thailand only recognises them for 90 days.

Living here all that time you should be aware that farangs should drive correctly, wear helmets, do not draw attention to yourself, you brought the problem on yourself.

License wasn't mentioned, as I keep saying. And my IDP is valid if he did ask for it. So why fine me for it?

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, PST said:

License wasn't even mentioned, just written as a fine, and an IDP is fine, used one for the last 12 years.

The IDP is always used in conjunction with the home-issued drivers license. It is not considered to be the equivalent of another country's drivers license.

 

Does the OP's home-issued drivers license permit him to ride motorbikes in his home country?

[PST]

6 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Good innings! I assume you've always had license, tax and a helmet on your head at these checkpoints.

I would say ive paid 3 times maximum, so yes

[PST]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The IDP is always used in conjunction with the home-issued drivers license. It is not considered to be the equivalent of another country's drivers license.

 

Does the OP's home-issued drivers license permit him to ride motorbikes in his home country?

Yes, but makes no difference, as he never asked to see it, and it wasn't mentioned, but fined me for it, maybe my fault for not checking the fine when he gave it to me

[PST]

15 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Why did you not take the IDP from under your seat when you saw the ticket?

Because when he handed it to me, I was on the phone, and he shot off, plus I cant read Thai, so only found out when I showed my Wife.

[Blue Muton]

29 minutes ago, PST said:

Thanks, lived here for 17 years, never been stopped apart from at Checkpoints. Procedure needs to be adhered too in my opinion, and I know plenty of Thais who would argue the toss if it had been them

If you've lived here for 17 years you surely must know that your IDP is invalid. Your fault entirely, get a Thai licence, wear a helmet and stop whining when you've been caught out behaving stupidly.