Leaver Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 14 hours ago, fhickson said: it sounds like giving a thai landlord key money is at the root of many closures, as it works as an incentive to raise rents and to expect another bulk payment with a new tenant. ime thais have difficulty budgeting over time, thus the need for key money all at once may be needed and not just wanted in a vicious cycle. as tourism gets worse and presdure may increase on landlords it may be worthwhile for business owners to stand their ground and refuse key money payments, or pay it month by month rather then up front. It's not the root of all closures, but it has been known to be the cause of many, over the years. In the past, Thai landlords could easily find another tenant, but I don't think it will be so easy now. It will be interesting to see if Thai landlords are more reasonable with tenants in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, shdmn said: Kiss Food totally empty tonight. No Farangs anywhere. Ignore all those Farangs you see in the picture. It may look almost full but those are paid actors or photoshopped. Also Beefeaters in the background there was also absolutely empty full. No almost all Farangs. Pattaya totally doooomed!!! Posting photos of a low cost, therefore popular, restaurant in Central Pattaya does not show Pattaya is busy. Perhaps some of these customers have left The Tin Cup Cafe and now eat at Kiss. After all, it was YOU who said prices increased at The Tin Cup, and it's quiet there now. ???? So, you admit, one place is now quiet, yet post photos of a cheap and busy restaurant and then sarcastically state how busy Pattaya is. So, which one is it, busy or quiet? If you say busy, why isn't The Tin Cup Cafe continuing to be busy, as it has been in the past???? When you took these photos, did you look across the road at the beer bar complex? I bet you did. Why no photo of that complex, if Pattaya is so busy???? Reason is, it was absolutely devoid of customers, but hey, a cheap place is busy, while many other places are dead, including another well known cheap place, being The Tin Cup Cafe, and Pattaya must be busy. Right? ???? Edited October 17, 2019 by Leaver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 12 hours ago, Beggar said: This is common practice in the western world. Has nothing to do with Thailand. I think Thais simply learn more and more how to make money the way it is done in the western world. Nothing special - but for sure not an easy place for western dreamers anymore. But the old rule still exists. If you want to make a million in Thailand simply invest much more than this amount. The same might work in many other countries. It does not depend so much on the country but on the dreamer. It certainly is not common practice where I come from. Rents are reviewed and increased in line with market rents and inflation, not an amount at the whim of the landlord. Can't you see the incentive for a greedy Thai landlord to increase the rent to an amount he knows will cause the contract / lease to fail, then find a new tenant and pocket key money again? Does key money exist in western countries? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 hours ago, jacko45k said: Is key money a feature in the Buakhao area too? I thought it was asked mainly in Walking St, and it was substantial. Call it key money, or a deposit you can't get back eh? Common in all tourist areas throughout Thailand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdmn Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ron jeremy said: ...I may need glasses, but I am not seeing the place packed with falang customers. I guess so. But what do I know. I was there and you were not. Edited October 17, 2019 by shdmn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, shdmn said: I guess so. But what do I know. I was there and you were not. Maybe I need to make it into an hour long video visiting each and every table with a slow pan of all the as s es in seats. Good idea, and do a 360 degrees video pan so we can see the dead bar complex across the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 33 minutes ago, Leaver said: Does key money exist in western countries? I don't think so. It often exists in the form that you have to take over things inside the rental object for a high price. Kitchens or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Beggar said: It often exists in the form that you have to take over things inside the rental object for a high price. Kitchens or whatever. Vacant possession???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Leaver said: Common in all tourist areas throughout Thailand. I had heard many places were not asking for key money in an effort to boost business, excepting Walking St. This was a while ago and I just wondered how prevalent that was. Renting out business properties seems like quite a good game here, high rents, key money, no maintenance work, just sit back and the money rolls in. Let's face it, until the dreamy eyed investor gets going, most rentals are absolute dumps. Edited October 17, 2019 by jacko45k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 23 hours ago, jacko45k said: I had heard many places were not asking for key money in an effort to boost business, excepting Walking St. This was a while ago and I just wondered how prevalent that was. Renting out business properties seems like quite a good game here, high rents, key money, no maintenance work, just sit back and the money rolls in. Let's face it, until the dreamy eyed investor gets going, most rentals are absolute dumps. I'm not in the market to lease a commercial premises, so can not comment on current key money demands. Most of the dumps around the Central Pattaya area are propped up by the foreigner's money coming in from abroad. Many live upstairs, and the small amount of trade helps subsidize their cost of living in Thailand. This is why they are dumps. They know they will never be profitable, so no point trying to be. The business is basically their lounge room. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhickson Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) did anyone else notice that cheap charlies. chunky monkey and hungry hippo are all the same street selling the same meals at the same prices? i like chunkey monkey the best out of these three. i wonder why the server help cares so much about whether you order a drink. do they get some sort of commission? 7-11 next door has a nice thai strawberry soda for 10 baht. i stopped leaving a tip at these places, especially cheap charlies. that 10 baht pays for a ride home in the truck so i dont have to walk. are these places thai or foreigner run? im thinking its thai. why would cheap charlies have a pic of charlie chaplain? i dont think he was cheap as a famous comedian. Edited October 18, 2019 by fhickson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 7 hours ago, fhickson said: did anyone else notice that cheap charlies. chunky monkey and hungry hippo are all the same street selling the same meals at the same prices? i like chunkey monkey the best out of these three. i wonder why the server help cares so much about whether you order a drink. do they get some sort of commission? 7-11 next door has a nice thai strawberry soda for 10 baht. i stopped leaving a tip at these places, especially cheap charlies. that 10 baht pays for a ride home in the truck so i dont have to walk. are these places thai or foreigner run? im thinking its thai. why would cheap charlies have a pic of charlie chaplain? i dont think he was cheap as a famous comedian. Isn't it Robin from Robin's Nest? Not leaving a tip seems a bit miserly, or are you trolling? If the service warrants it I would, if it was bad you may be correct. If there was a service charge on the bill, I would withold it too, but I doubt that. In these places there is a good profit margin on the drinks so perhaps they push them. Personally someone who skips a drink is being a bit cheap and if they started to choke the staff should demand a tip before performing Heimlich. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 2 hours ago, jacko45k said: Isn't it Robin from Robin's Nest? Not leaving a tip seems a bit miserly, or are you trolling? If the service warrants it I would, if it was bad you may be correct. If there was a service charge on the bill, I would withold it too, but I doubt that. In these places there is a good profit margin on the drinks so perhaps they push them. Personally someone who skips a drink is being a bit cheap and if they started to choke the staff should demand a tip before performing Heimlich. One thing I have noticed in recent times is all the change or tip folders going back empty. Sign of the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Leaver said: One thing I have noticed in recent times is all the change or tip folders going back empty. Any particular hints you can give on how to observe the contents of change or tip folders? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said: Any particular hints you can give on how to observe the contents of change or tip folders? No problem. Have a look at the guy at the table near you when the change comes back from the cashier. You will see many take all the change out of the folder. For tables not near yours, after other people have paid, have a look when the staff take the folder back to the cashier. The folder goes back onto the pile and nothing put in the big tip jar on the counter, because it went back empty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Leaver said: Have a look at the guy at the table near you when the change comes back from the cashier. You will see many take all the change out of the folder. That's exactly what I do when I've read the slip and observed there's a service charge included 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said: That's exactly what I do when I've read the slip and observed there's a service charge included Do you really think the staff get to keep the service charge???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhickson Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, jacko45k said: Isn't it Robin from Robin's Nest? Not leaving a tip seems a bit miserly, or are you trolling? If the service warrants it I would, if it was bad you may be correct. If there was a service charge on the bill, I would withold it too, but I doubt that. In these places there is a good profit margin on the drinks so perhaps they push them. Personally someone who skips a drink is being a bit cheap and if they started to choke the staff should demand a tip before performing Heimlich. does not feel cheap when the drink prices are half a meal cost roughly. makes me think i should just pay a bit more and get two full meals. now if im thirsty ill get the drink, but dont like the idea of a drink just for the hell of it or just for looks when i really just came for the food. if thats a problem they can increase prices on the food. up to them. hate tipping discussions, but to put it simply, its optional. Edited October 19, 2019 by fhickson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 15 hours ago, fhickson said: just for the hell of it Well personally I like to have something to help me swallow.... especially falang food, and anything spicy would benefit from water! How much are they charging for a bottle of water? Will it break the bank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 5 hours ago, jacko45k said: Well personally I like to have something to help me swallow.... especially falang food, and anything spicy would benefit from water! How much are they charging for a bottle of water? Will it break the bank? From their online menu, 30 baht for a water at Hungry Hippo and 60 baht for a small Tiger. Can't complain about the beer price. Very reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Leaver said: From their online menu, 30 baht for a water at Hungry Hippo and 60 baht for a small Tiger. Can't complain about the beer price. Very reasonable. Well for some that 20 baht over a 7-11 one is obviously too much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhickson Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, jacko45k said: Well personally I like to have something to help me swallow.... especially falang food, and anything spicy would benefit from water! How much are they charging for a bottle of water? Will it break the bank? suck on a pebble, its cheaper. Edited October 20, 2019 by fhickson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 19 hours ago, jacko45k said: Well for some that 20 baht over a 7-11 one is obviously too much. So what chance would a bar selling beer at 80 baht have? Like I have said, it's a race to the bottom here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Leaver said: So what chance would a bar selling beer at 80 baht have? Like I have said, it's a race to the bottom here. Business owners and custom alike. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 5 hours ago, jacko45k said: Business owners and custom alike. I have thought about this. Is it a chicken and egg scenario? As in, which one comes first? Cheap businesses attract cheap customers. Or cheap customers are the only market, so cheap businesses will be the only ones attract customers and survive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 On 10/21/2019 at 1:26 AM, fhickson said: suck on a pebble, its cheaper. How much are they charging for pebbles? ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonseeker Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Plenty of good customers in Pattaya. We shouldn't judge it by the Bouakao crowd and a large percentage of posters on TV. Just look at the many upper end hotels, restaurants, the yachts in OM, the high end condos and villas, expensive imported meats and other items in supermarkets. The cheap Charlie's definitely don't keep the economy afloat here. But they certainly know all about how to run any kind of business. Wonder why they end up living in shi... holes and bragging about not leaving 5 Baht tip for a waitress with all their successes in life... MS> 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisandsu Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 59 minutes ago, moonseeker said: Plenty of good customers in Pattaya. We shouldn't judge it by the Bouakao crowd and a large percentage of posters on TV. Just look at the many upper end hotels, restaurants, the yachts in OM, the high end condos and villas, expensive imported meats and other items in supermarkets. The cheap Charlie's definitely don't keep the economy afloat here. But they certainly know all about how to run any kind of business. Wonder why they end up living in shi... holes and bragging about not leaving 5 Baht tip for a waitress with all their successes in life... MS> Yours was a cashier right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhickson Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) On 10/22/2019 at 8:36 AM, Leaver said: How much are they charging for pebbles? ???? not sure, but chunky monkey has large cup gold instant coffees for 29 baht. saw a guy come in today and order just a 29 baht coffee and sitting there did not order any food lol. the great think about it is it was OK, nobody have him any hassle about it. that's the way you want to do business. Edited October 23, 2019 by fhickson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 On 10/22/2019 at 2:36 PM, moonseeker said: Plenty of good customers in Pattaya. Where do they eat and drink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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