'Collaborators' are undermining Britain's Brexit bet, PM says

[tomacht8]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

You will not believe it, but Brexit has an impact on all countries of the EU and on all countries with which the EU has trade agreements.

 

Maybe you should tell that to your EU leaders who at this moment in time doesn't seem to care about any consequences on any of their states they are supposed to be representing.

Nothing is going to change in the UK, we voted to leave the EU, if the EU doesn't want to respect our democratic choice that is for them and them alone to explain to their people why there is so many job losses.

A reasonable, least damaging Brexit would be better for everyone involved.

 

Why the Hecktik and the hurry?

 

Could it be that there may not be a majority in the UK for an unregulated no deal Brexit on October 31?

 

 

[stephenterry]

59 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

The members of parliament of not done their job. Their role is to carry out the mandate provided by those who elected them - not to embark on their own crusades.

 

The referendum was presented by the PM of the day and very clearly stated it's aims.......... Leave or Remain.

Blame Rees-Mogg and his ERG right-wingers for voting against the government, otherwise the UK would already have left the EU in March 2019. Whether the deal was considered good or bad, it doesn't alter the facts, nor does it alter the fact that Johnson voted for it. IMO, it would have been a lot less damaging to the UK than the current No-deal scenario.

 

So I agree with your statement, Tory members of parliament have not done their job required by the clearly stated aims of the Leave mandate.  

 

IOW, you either Leave the EU or Remain in it. End of story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jip99]

17 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

That's nice.
It may be that there are problems with neighbors, borderline definitions, trade practices, open unpaid bills, UK people living in other EU countries, EU people living in UK, residency issues, research, education and legal issues.

 

With a no deal brexit this will certainly not be clarified by mutual agreement.

 

You will not believe it, but Brexit has an impact on all countries of the EU and on all countries with which the EU has trade agreements.

 

 

I am well aware that Brexit has an impact elsewhere other than the UK. But it is OUR issue.... as the EU have consistently maintained by failing to recognise that the deal on offer would never get through parliament.

 

You should be speaking with your EU masters to encourage them to do, what should have been provided for in Article 50, and that is to construct a deal that is fair on all sides - and is condusive to future cooperation and trade.

 

I have said throughout, my gripe is not with Europe/Europeans - I have several good friends in Europe - it is with the "EU".

Edited August 15, 2019 by Jip99

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Blame Rees-Mogg and his ERG right-wingers for voting against the government, otherwise the UK would already have left the EU in March 2019. Whether the deal was considered good or bad, it doesn't alter the facts, nor does it alter the fact that Johnson voted for it. IMO, it would have been a lot less damaging to the UK than the current No-deal scenario.

 

So I agree with your statement, Tory members of parliament have not done their job required by the clearly stated aims of the Leave mandate.  

 

IOW, you either Leave the EU or Remain in it. End of story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't argue with any of that.

 

Whilst I can understand the principle of "no deal is better than a bad deal", I would much prefer to exit with a deal.

 

However, the kids in the parliamentary playground (and in the EU) are not capable of putting self interest aside.

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

You will not believe it, but Brexit has an impact on all countries of the EU and on all countries with which the EU has trade agreements.

 

Maybe you should tell that to your EU leaders who at this moment in time doesn't seem to care about any consequences on any of their states they are supposed to be representing.

Nothing is going to change in the UK, we voted to leave the EU, if the EU doesn't want to respect our democratic choice that is for them and them alone to explain to their people why there is so many job losses.

But they do respect the UK's democratic choice. So much so that that, absent an agreement, they will treat the UK no worse than they would any other nation outside the EU that is operating under WTO rules.

Of course there are some UK whingers who expect to continue enjoying lots of the benefits of being in the EU while not being subject to any obligations. Somehow, they think that's unfair. 

[JonnyF]

13 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Blame Rees-Mogg and his ERG right-wingers for voting against the government, otherwise the UK would already have left the EU in March 2019.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/third-vote-on-may-deal-exposes-splits-among-tory-brexiters

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by JonnyF

[Joe Mcseismic]

46 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

You don't need to be a 'believer' to enjoy the breath of fresh air since May's departure.

Yes, a bit like changing a rotten fish for a fart.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, tomacht8 said:

A reasonable, least damaging Brexit would be better for everyone involved.

 

Why the Hecktik and the hurry?

 

Could it be that there may not be a majority in the UK for an unregulated no deal Brexit on October 31?

 

 

A reasonable, least damaging Brexit would be better for everyone involved.

 

You may be correct in what you are saying but that just brings me back to my point that the EU will not talk to Boris. The EU has many choices I'm sure you'll agree, but the UK has only one choice if they wish to respect the referendum vote, that is to leave on WTO terms. The only people that can alter the course of history is the EU, but by remaining intransigent it would appear that option remains closed.

Boris wants a reasonable deal, the EU won't talk, it would appear that we are at a stalemate position. There will be immeasurable damage done to both sides, do you think that the EU could be a little more accommadating? I know it's very difficult for the Eumainers to say anything negative about the EU, but have a go anyway.

[RichardColeman]

Kind of Ironic that 85% of the MP's stood on an agreed Brexit platform to get in and now refuse to deliver what they stood for !! 

 

Not delivering Brexit , would be like the losing party of an election refusing to leave as they claim the voters were not certain of the question on the voting slip when the party they voted for could not possibly do what they claimed they could do !

 

If I was a Brexit MP I would table a motion in the house that Parliamentary democracy does not usurp public democracy and see who voted that they are more important than the electorate

 

 

 

 

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

A reasonable, least damaging Brexit would be better for everyone involved.

 

You may be correct in what you are saying but that just brings me back to my point that the EU will not talk to Boris. The EU has many choices I'm sure you'll agree, but the UK has only one choice if they wish to respect the referendum vote, that is to leave on WTO terms. The only people that can alter the course of history is the EU, but by remaining intransigent it would appear that option remains closed.

Boris wants a reasonable deal, the EU won't talk, it would appear that we are at a stalemate position. There will be immeasurable damage done to both sides, do you think that the EU could be a little more accommadating? I know it's very difficult for the Eumainers to say anything negative about the EU, but have a go anyway.

'Boris wants a reasonable deal,'

Finally, someone who knows what Boris Johnson wants in respect to Brexit. Could you please share with the rest of the world what this "reasonable deal" would look like?

[Joe Mcseismic]

A deal between the British government and the EU was agreed to by both parties.

Now, one party wants to renege on that deal and renegotiate. That's how the EU sees it.

Is it any wonder that they don't want to chuck three years of negotiations into the bin?

[Jip99]

17 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But they do respect the UK's democratic choice. So much so that that, absent an agreement, they will treat the UK no worse than they would any other nation outside the EU that is operating under WTO rules.

Of course there are some UK whingers who expect to continue enjoying lots of the benefits of being in the EU while not being subject to any obligations. Somehow, they think that's unfair. 

 

 

For the record I am one who fully expects, and accepts, that there is a price to pay for leaving the club (I have used the leaving a golf club analogy many times and I would expect to pay higher green fees than members would pay if I wanted to play at my old club).

 

It is totally unrealistic to expect the same terms of membership if you leave. I personally don't know any Brexiteers who think otherwise (I accept they will exist somewhere).

[luckyluke]

8 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

I have said throughout, my gripe is not with Europe/Europeans - I have several good friends in Europe - it is with the "EU".

I was 45 years old when the European Union came into force in 1993.

 

I am 71 now.

 

I am lost who is appointed, elected... or whatever,

and who is who in this " show ".

 

This must cost a lot of money, and I am pretty sure a part (small or big ?) of the taxes I pay must go to it.

 

But i am not aware of a change in my daily life since it exist.

 

It is just there.

 

Our King and his family are there too, they cost money, and here also I suppose a part of my paid taxes goes to them.

 

However the King, and his family, don't change anything either in my daily life.

 

 

 

[Jip99]

21 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Yes, a bit like changing a rotten fish for a fart.

 

 

You clearly don't understand "breath of FRESH air".

 

Nevertheless, I will take the whiff of Brussels sprouts to bplah rah any day.

[evadgib]

30 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

A reasonable, least damaging Brexit would be better for everyone involved.

Technically I agree, but if we were to leave any earlier than 31 Oct with any deal it would create a great deal of suspicion that a slight-of-hand trick in either direction has left us umbillically shackled to the EU indefinitely. 

We need to sever all ties before re engaging as an independant state.

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

I was 45 years old when the European Union came into force in 1993.

 

I am 71 now.

 

I am lost who is appointed, elected... or whatever,

and who is who in this " show ".

 

This must cost a lot of money, and I am pretty sure a part (small or big ?) of the taxes I pay must go to it.

 

But i am not aware of a change in my daily life since it exist.

 

It is just there.

 

Our King and his family are there too, they cost money, and here also I suppose a part of my paid taxes goes to them.

 

However the King, and his family, don't change anything either in my daily life.

 

 

 

 

 

You will no doubt remember the EEC then.

 

 

I liked that....... economic cooperation and FoM among nine member countries.

 

 

The project cannot sustain 28 members.

[Joe Mcseismic]

4 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You clearly don't understand "breath of FRESH air".

 

Nevertheless, I will take the whiff of Brussels sprouts to bplah rah any day.

You clearly don't understand that I didn't agree with your "fresh air" statement, thus the rotten fish and fart analogy.

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

You clearly don't understand that I didn't agree with your "fresh air" statement, thus the rotten fish and fart analogy.

 

 

You clearly don't know how to construct a meaningful response.

 

" Yes, a bit like changing a rotten fish for a fart".

 

The above reply suggests that you associate a breath of fresh air with a fart"......  strange, each to their own.

 

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

Just now, Jip99 said:

 

 

You clearly don't know how to construct a meaningful response.

 

" Yes, a bit like changing a rotten fish for a fart".

 

The above reply suggests that you associate a breath of fresh air with a fart"......  strange, each to their own.

 

 

Only in your mind.

[grumpy 4680]

     EUROPE ARE ALLIES ???   So why they making leaving so difficult, And as for the collaborators, they should be put against a wall and shot, the normal treatment for Traitors.

    Britain democratically voted to leave, end of story, We should not be having a politician referendum. We might have some allies in Europe, but they are certainly not German or French

[evadgib]

From the Times on 12 Aug:

 

[JonnyF]

31 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

For the record I am one who fully expects, and accepts, that there is a price to pay for leaving the club (I have used the leaving a golf club analogy many times and I would expect to pay higher green fees than members would pay if I wanted to play at my old club).

 

It is totally unrealistic to expect the same terms of membership if you leave. I personally don't know any Brexiteers who think otherwise (I accept they will exist somewhere).

Indeed, I don't think any Brexiteers expect the same deal after we left. It's simply a strawman argument that Remainers put forward to justify their 'unicorn' analogy. Same as they claim it was all about immigration, more nonsense.

 

Every Brexiteer I know accepts there will be short term disruption and dealing with the EU will be more difficult. However, the benefits of leaving far outweigh the disadvantages. 

 

They attack the straw man because they cannot refute our real reasons for wanting to leave. Quite sad really.

 

 

[luckyluke]

18 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

The project cannot sustain 28 members.

Maybe not, will see when a predominant member will leave.

 

If it ever leave, and how and when.

 

 

Despite the majority of the votes on a referendum, the parliament and a lot of citizens don't seem to be convinced this is the best way for the nation.

 

[SheungWan]

 
 
The people have already voted on whether they wish to leave or remain.
 
 
But you know that.
 
 
You will understand that whilst your interest in our Brexit process, as a European, is mildly interesting this is a matter for the UK.

Neither the referendum or Parliament has decided on no-Deal as the exclusive mode of exiting.

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[SheungWan]

A reasonable, least damaging Brexit would be better for everyone involved.
 
Why the Hecktik and the hurry?
 
Could it be that there may not be a majority in the UK for an unregulated no deal Brexit on October 31?
 
 

Because the Hard Brexiteer head-bangers think they are on a roll.

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[bristolboy]

20 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You clearly don't know how to construct a meaningful response.

 

" Yes, a bit like changing a rotten fish for a fart".

 

The above reply suggests that you associate a breath of fresh air with a fart"......  strange, each to their own.

 

 

Interesting you interpret it that way. The more obvious explanation would be exchanging one bad smell for another. Perhaps the 2nd being slightly less bad.

[SheungWan]

Kind of Ironic that 85% of the MP's stood on an agreed Brexit platform to get in and now refuse to deliver what they stood for !! 
 
Not delivering Brexit , would be like the losing party of an election refusing to leave as they claim the voters were not certain of the question on the voting slip when the party they voted for could not possibly do what they claimed they could do !
 
If I was a Brexit MP I would table a motion in the house that Parliamentary democracy does not usurp public democracy and see who voted that they are more important than the electorate
 
 
 
 

Good luck with that. The Brexit Party have zero MPs right now.

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[Becker]

3 hours ago, thirdleg said:

wages rising and low unemployment in the UK

All whilst being undermined on a daily basis by these remainer quislings aka puppets for Juncker and his cohorts 

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/recession-is-coming-yield-curves-invert-in-us-uk-for-first-time-in-a-decade-1565795194290.html

 

PS. Good to see you're not into hyperbole - well done!

[grumpy 4680]

    Deal or no deal is not the issue, but leaving is.

[SheungWan]

Right. Because it's only Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House of Representatives and leader of the Democratic majority, who said so. What is her word compared to that of John Bolton, or, for that matter, Donald Trump's?

Because trade deals made by the Presidency have to pass Congress and Nancy Pelosi as the Speaker can block an agreement made by Trump.

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