Pesticides in fruit and vegetables - an insider report

[CLW]

Currently doing a training in one of the biggest and most prestigious laboratories in Thailand, for export certification the producers sent in their own sample. There is no independent third party or random test by organisations or the government. This practice makes it top easy for sending forged samples that not represent the real average products. It then can only be detected by random custom checks of the importing country.

 

Most of my time I spend in the sample receiving and pesticide extraction so I rarely get to see the results. What I found out so far is that only the following categories are often tested for residues: produce for export (they need certificate), fruits and vegetables at big supermarkets (they are randomly checking their suppliers), well known food industry companies that either export or have some certification (checking their suppliers).

 

That makes (converted to the whole population) let's say 80% of the fruits and vegetables in this country who are sold in wholesale and local markets untested. Because the Department of Agriculture doesn't do random testing (what a surprise...) and even certificate like GAP or Q Mark the products can be sent by the certifier itself to testing so they can/could choose non-sprayed samples of their products.

 

That leads to the next assumption. Today I could spend a half day at the analysis and result section. Mostly certificate for export to Japan and Taiwan. Surprising is in 99% of the samples there is no detection of residue at all. The instruments can detect and quantify a level of 0.01 mg/kg but they are completely not detected. That means for conventional grown vegetables they never ever saw some chemical during their growing period. This is almost impossible so I strongly believe the samples for testing are fake. Because to get the export certificate they still can have a certain level of residue depending on substance and importing country. Something smells really wrong about that.

 

Anyway, today was found on heavy contaminated sample of Oranges from Thailand with 5 detected chemical residues. Four of them under the Thai (and also EU MRL, I checked it online) but highlight was a concentration of Profenofos with 0.32 mg/kg where the Thai MRL is 0.1 mg/kg so three times more than allowed. This as warning not to eat or drink citrus fruit from Thailand.

 

I will post more information as I get them.

[DuiDui48]

Thank you for the info,i'm not suprised of your findings at all..Looking forward for more information from you.

Thank you and have a nice working day.

[toolpush]

So, why am I not surprised?

[Nyezhov]

Y'all making some heavy accusations there. You sure? Sounds like criminal activity...have you reported it?

 

And a warning not to drink citrus juice? You tested the products, yes? You do know that the chemical you mention is allowed in the US and is non carginogenic? You do know you can wash it off the skin of oranges....but nevertheless, you are warning folks not to eat oranges?

 

 

 

 

[RJRS1301]

Hope you are using a VPN for whistleblowing to protect yourself

 

[faraday]

Can you do an independent analysis with some shop bought produce?

[ehs818]

When I used to work in product development and had items that needed to be tested, we sent all of ours (ALL) to HK for testing. The reason is that there was no confidence in labs in Thailand and there was a long history of the labs in HK being objective, accurate, and professional.

[davemos]

Seems  that the regulators will only act when this hits the pocket nerve .Forward and pass it on .Ps hope its fake news .

[Farma]

I know members of a provincial MoPH food safety mobile laboratory. They're out most days taking random samples of fresh food sold in markets around the province. They also operate in the evenings and sometimes on weekends.

 

Samples collected are either tested on the spot in their van or sent for further testing.

 

Common pesticide detection is usually in salad vegetables handed out with food at street/night markets. Sometimes formaldehyde can be found in fresh seafood. A recent sample of vegetables sold as organic from a small scale farang producer tested positive for pesticide.

 

Penalties can include a warning with a random follow up check later or fines if the offense warrants it.

 

[inThailand]

Not suprising.

 

Thanks!

 

Look forward to hearing more.

[Beggar]

"That makes (converted to the whole population) let's say 80% of the fruits and vegetables in this country who are sold in wholesale and local markets untested." 

 

Let's take the markets. A lot of vegetables and fruits come from small lokal farmers. Impossible to check them all and punish them. The government can block dangerous chemicals from being imported or produced. But the remaining chemicals need to be used as designed. And in this respect it is hard to control what is going on. For sure it is easier to check big imports or big companies producing vegetables and fruits. But the small farmers... 

[CLW]

Y'all making some heavy accusations there. You sure? Sounds like criminal activity...have you reported it?
 
And a warning not to drink citrus juice? You tested the products, yes? You do know that the chemical you mention is allowed in the US and is non carginogenic? You do know you can wash it off the skin of oranges....but nevertheless, you are warning folks not to eat oranges?
 
 
 
 

So far just accusations or implications, yes.
Why should I report it? Here in Thailand?
And then be sued for defamation or something worse?
Up to everyone what he drinks or eats.
I won't and have also in the past avoided citrus products and juices, not only from Thailand.

[CLW]

Can you do an independent analysis with some shop bought produce?

Next week

[CLW]

I know members of a provincial MoPH food safety mobile laboratory. They're out most days taking random samples of fresh food sold in markets around the province. They also operate in the evenings and sometimes on weekends.
 
Samples collected are either tested on the spot in their van or sent for further testing.
 
Common pesticide detection is usually in salad vegetables handed out with food at street/night markets. Sometimes formaldehyde can be found in fresh seafood. A recent sample of vegetables sold as organic from a small scale farang producer tested positive for pesticide.
 
Penalties can include a warning with a random follow up check later or fines if the offense warrants it.
 

Thank you. This is good information.

[CLW]

"That makes (converted to the whole population) let's say 80% of the fruits and vegetables in this country who are sold in wholesale and local markets untested." 
 
Let's take the markets. A lot of vegetables and fruits come from small lokal farmers. Impossible to check them all and punish them. The government can block dangerous chemicals from being imported or produced. But the remaining chemicals need to be used as designed. And in this respect it is hard to control what is going on. For sure it is easier to check big imports or big companies producing vegetables and fruits. But the small farmers... 

So far I agree.

BUT "the remaining chemicals need to be used as designed."

Unless they are very expensive I'll guess that most farmers act with the attitude a lot helps a lot. Correct dosage, withholding period and pre harvest interval are mostly unknown to them.
I can't confirm but so far I also haven't seen any information on the Thai pesticide labels about that. Anyone can read or translate some label?

[MartiniMan]

As a farmer let me put my 2 cents in

 

All our produce is checked with the depot 

All royal project is checked and requires HAACP

The reasons there are no 'chemicals' is that natural substances exist and are cheaper to use then using monsanto and bayer etc so many farmers are infact not using these products at all in Thailand

The main product of use would be ripening and I dont see you mention that at all. Maybe you should go down the real rabbit hole here - mango ripened with calcium carbonate and all street vegetables that are cut open but never age to air? How strange - huge amount of bleach used you can just look on youtube for many hidden camera videos of how street food is prepared

To regulate they enforce HAACP and organic grow rules - so there cannot be any substances even present on the farm. We are checked every 6 months. You are just a little confused maybe on agricultural processes in this country

All hydroponic veg is grown in chemicals and may use pesticides but that doesn't mean they are dangerous - although urea nitrogen is banned in HAACP it is just urine and really is a silly ban but that is how serious organic setup is

The street food is where you should be up in arms as they actually soak it in bleach and do many underhand things to ensure they make a large profit margin such as using vitamin c tablets in syrup to make fake orange juice. If they have any chinese links they will be doing all this underhand tactics as chinese are the kings of this! Just look online you will see chinese make fake plastic rice and plastic eggs all kinds of terrible things because they are really very strange morally.

Although Thais can be led into disgraceful places I honestly have never met one that would do such foul play on the large scal e- and they all know about chinese scams. The street food is one area that is covered in foul play and often by immigrant workers who dont have any love for their fellow man

The actual farm produce will have HAACP certification and be good,organic pesticide usage has always prevailed in thailand as it existed before chemical and all the farms use these 'old mixtures' of garlic, lemongrass, essential oils and even soap to keep out pests because its dirt cheap (or free in some cases) so why lose profit spending out on expensive chemicals

Now look over the microwave food and especially CP, its FULL of crap. Lets hear a reason for why you cannot buy a raisin in thailand that isnt covered in sodium benzoate! Only lemon farm has fully organic produce and makro has one line - people need to start supporting lemon farm and the royal lines so it can capitalise over the tarnished produce - more money in these companies banks the larger expansion can run

CP / 7 11 is the real elephant in the room, check that out

Edited August 16, 2019 by MartiniMan
typo

[TPI]

Thanks for the heads up!

[CLW]

As a farmer let me put my 2 cents in
 
All our produce is checked with the depot 

All royal project is checked and requires HAACP

The reasons there are no 'chemicals' is that natural substances exist and are cheaper to use then using monsanto and bayer etc so many farmers are infact not using these products at all in Thailand

The main product of use would be ripening and I dont see you mention that at all. Maybe you should go down the real rabbit hole here - mango ripened with calcium carbonate and all street vegetables that are cut open but never age to air? How strange - huge amount of bleach used you can just look on youtube for many hidden camera videos of how street food is prepared

To regulate they enforce HAACP and organic grow rules - so there cannot be any substances even present on the farm. We are checked every 6 months. You are just a little confused maybe on agricultural processes in this country

All hydroponic veg is grown in chemicals and may use pesticides but that doesn't mean they are dangerous - although urea nitrogen is banned in HAACP it is just urine and really is a silly ban but that is how serious organic setup is

The street food is where you should be up in arms as they actually soak it in bleach and do many underhand things to ensure they make a large profit margin such as using vitamin c tablets in syrup to make fake orange juice. If they have any chinese links they will be doing all this underhand tactics as chinese are the kings of this! Just look online you will see chinese make fake plastic rice and plastic eggs all kinds of terrible things because they are really very strange morally.

Although Thais can be led into disgraceful places I honestly have never met one that would do such foul play on the large scal e- and they all know about chinese scams. The street food is one area that is covered in foul play and often by immigrant workers who dont have any love for their fellow man

The actual farm produce will have HAACP certification and be good,organic pesticide usage has always prevailed in thailand as it existed before chemical and all the farms use these 'old mixtures' of garlic, lemongrass, essential oils and even soap to keep out pests because its dirt cheap (or free in some cases) so why lose profit spending out on expensive chemicals

Now look over the microwave food and especially CP, its FULL of crap. Lets hear a reason for why you cannot buy a raisin in thailand that isnt covered in sodium benzoate! Only lemon farm has fully organic produce and makro has one line - people need to start supporting lemon farm and the royal lines so it can capitalise over the tarnished produce - more money in these companies banks the larger expansion can run

CP / 7 11 is the real elephant in the room, check that out

Appreciate your farming practice and efforts but I have a slightly different experience and opinion.

Farmers will spray whatever the salesman suggests or where they get the best conditions may it be price wise or some bonus programme such as points or lucky draws. This is my experience visiting farms all over Thailand. If you ask a farmer for what purpose this product is they don't really know but the salesman suggested it.

Re street food, surely good and bad ones around. But this is everywhere in developing countries with low state regulations or enforcement and people trying to make a living from selling their products.

Re CP, Betagro, S&P etc. and other food giants. Honestly, I don't like them much and some of their business practices but they produce certainly the safest food in Thailand because they have very strict procedures and regulations in place also because they are exporting a lot and can't afford any mistake.

[faraday]

Op, just be careful, & ensure your id is well protected.

 

Looking forward to next week's food analysis, I hope it's not too shocking.

[justin case]

nothing in this country is safe

 

certainly not us aliens from immigration bullcrap

[Letseng]

"Mostlycertificate for export to Japan and Taiwan. Surprising is in 99% of the samples there is no detection of residue at all. "

 

Don't think for one sec that Japanese don't do their own testing of imports. If there are falsely certified products this would result in stopping further imports. 

I know how Japanese check gemstone imports. They don't rely on exporters document. They retest the tiniest stones. God help the seller if there is a wrong one amongst the hundreds. Would be no different with farm produce.

[Letseng]

3 hours ago, MartiniMan said:

As a farmer let me put my 2 cents in

 

All our produce is checked with the depot 

All royal project is checked and requires HAACP

The reasons there are no 'chemicals' is that natural substances exist and are cheaper to use then using monsanto and bayer etc so many farmers are infact not using these products at all in Thailand

The main product of use would be ripening and I dont see you mention that at all. Maybe you should go down the real rabbit hole here - mango ripened with calcium carbonate and all street vegetables that are cut open but never age to air? How strange - huge amount of bleach used you can just look on youtube for many hidden camera videos of how street food is prepared

To regulate they enforce HAACP and organic grow rules - so there cannot be any substances even present on the farm. We are checked every 6 months. You are just a little confused maybe on agricultural processes in this country

All hydroponic veg is grown in chemicals and may use pesticides but that doesn't mean they are dangerous - although urea nitrogen is banned in HAACP it is just urine and really is a silly ban but that is how serious organic setup is

The street food is where you should be up in arms as they actually soak it in bleach and do many underhand things to ensure they make a large profit margin such as using vitamin c tablets in syrup to make fake orange juice. If they have any chinese links they will be doing all this underhand tactics as chinese are the kings of this! Just look online you will see chinese make fake plastic rice and plastic eggs all kinds of terrible things because they are really very strange morally.

Although Thais can be led into disgraceful places I honestly have never met one that would do such foul play on the large scal e- and they all know about chinese scams. The street food is one area that is covered in foul play and often by immigrant workers who dont have any love for their fellow man

The actual farm produce will have HAACP certification and be good,organic pesticide usage has always prevailed in thailand as it existed before chemical and all the farms use these 'old mixtures' of garlic, lemongrass, essential oils and even soap to keep out pests because its dirt cheap (or free in some cases) so why lose profit spending out on expensive chemicals

Now look over the microwave food and especially CP, its FULL of crap. Lets hear a reason for why you cannot buy a raisin in thailand that isnt covered in sodium benzoate! Only lemon farm has fully organic produce and makro has one line - people need to start supporting lemon farm and the royal lines so it can capitalise over the tarnished produce - more money in these companies banks the larger expansion can run

CP / 7 11 is the real elephant in the room, check that out

Good comment.

I would never buy CP products of any kind or support 7/11 with more than a phone top up.

[CLW]

"Mostlycertificate for export to Japan and Taiwan. Surprising is in 99% of the samples there is no detection of residue at all. "
 
Don't think for one sec that Japanese don't do their own testing of imports. If there are falsely certified products this would result in stopping further imports. 
I know how Japanese check gemstone imports. They don't rely on exporters document. They retest the tiniest stones. God help the seller if there is a wrong one amongst the hundreds. Would be no different with farm produce.

I believe too that Japanese authorities randomly check and re-test imported products.
So probably the whole lot to be exported is clean and not just the sample for the export certificate. Just assumption.

[thecyclist]

7 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Y'all making some heavy accusations there. You sure? Sounds like criminal activity...have you reported it?

 

And a warning not to drink citrus juice? You tested the products, yes? You do know that the chemical you mention is allowed in the US and is non carginogenic? You do know you can wash it off the skin of oranges....but nevertheless, you are warning folks not to eat oranges 

 

 

 

 

Remember an article in the Bangkok post where an owner of orange orchards was queried about the spraying practices in Thailand. He said that they routinely spray so much that he would never eat his oranges, he kept  a separately organically grown section for his private consumption. 

Farmers were seen to virtually bathe cabbages in cocktails of pesticides. 

Obviously you shouldn't stop eating fruit and vegetables, but when it comes to orange juice, I stopped drinking the freshly pressed variety sold by street stalls a long time ago. 

[Nyezhov]

26 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

Remember an article in the Bangkok post where an owner of orange orchards was queried about the spraying practices in Thailand. He said that they routinely spray so much that he would never eat his oranges, he kept  a separately organically grown section for his private consumption. 

Farmers were seen to virtually bathe cabbages in cocktails of pesticides. 

Obviously you shouldn't stop eating fruit and vegetables, but when it comes to orange juice, I stopped drinking the freshly pressed variety sold by street stalls a long time ago. 

Street orange juice? Naw, never drink it, too sweet. Is that what he is talking about then? Not the boxes of it sold in Fresh Mart? That stuff is too sweet too.

[davidst01]

On 8/16/2019 at 3:18 PM, thecyclist said:

Remember an article in the Bangkok post where an owner of orange orchards was queried about the spraying practices in Thailand. He said that they routinely spray so much that he would never eat his oranges, he kept  a separately organically grown section for his private consumption. 

Farmers were seen to virtually bathe cabbages in cocktails of pesticides. 

Obviously you shouldn't stop eating fruit and vegetables, but when it comes to orange juice, I stopped drinking the freshly pressed variety sold by street stalls a long time ago. 

I will stop buying oranges after reading this thread...

[elgenon]

American companies sell to Thailand what they are not allowed to use in America. 

[Vacuum]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:18 AM, thecyclist said:

I stopped drinking the freshly pressed variety sold by street stalls a long time ago.

We press them at home after pealing them.

[CLW]

American companies sell to Thailand what they are not allowed to use in America. 

Not only American companies, every international company.
Send their dirty stuff to third world and developing countries.
And all under the premise being the good guy and offer them cheap pesticides for sake of food security (availability)

[CLW]

My particular testing about organic samples is not finished but today we had a "big hit" with celery leafs.

Detected Carbofuran at 1.86 mg/kg. Japan MRL is 0.5mg/kg, EU is not approved and therefore only 0.02mg/kg.

Just quoting the first sentence in Wikipedia: "Carbofuran is one of the most toxic pesticides..."