Savannakhet: worst fears confirmed

[Winston Smith]

TLDR;

For all those considering getting a 2nd tourist visa at Savannakhet - don't waste your time.

 

I had been reading various reports on this forum about people being knocked back at SVK but decided to give it a try as an alternative to returning to my country. I have 1 previous SETV issued this year, and prior to that an OA visa which was issued in Australia in 2017 (I am over 50). Prior to the OA visa I had 1 METV from AU & 2 TV from SVK in 2015/2016.

 

When my last OA entry was reaching its expiry earlier this year I discovered to my horror that in order to extend it I would need to transfer significant funds into a Thai bank. This was a no-op for me due to the terrible exchange rate in 2019. I also discovered that the immigration authorities would no longer accept a witnessed affidavit as proof of income. So I opted to get a TV or 2 and do a bit of travelling in between. When the first TV expired (after 30 day extension) I spent 1 month in Cambodia, and then travelled to SVK. I thought that spending a month or so out of the country might help in terms of smoothing another visa. I have never overstayed nor had any issues whatsoever with the authorities. 

 

I had all documents properly prepared including a bank statement with a healthy balance. I was well dressed, clean shaven and had a friendly "can do" attitude. I arrived on a Tuesday - having done due diligence and discovered that Mondays were a bad choice due to the visa run vans.

 

The consulate was quiet. I was number 3 in the queue when the doors opened. The man behind the window at the consulate was wearing a face mask - not a good sign in retrospect.

 

He had a look at my bank statement and casually flipped through my passport then, pulling his mask away from his face, asked me "what do you do in Thailand?". I replied - "holiday & tourism".  He then said "you cannot get tourist visa - you stay over 90 days". He then handed me back my application & passport. I should note that he did not use a computer and did not annotate my passport in any way. He just handed it back to me. His on the spot decision was guided solely by flipping through the pages of my passport in a brief and desultory manner. His examination of my passport indeed was so brief that I can hardly believe he really took in and processed the dates.

 

When he said "you stay over 90 days" he was pointing at the visa issued in April 2019. He made no mention of the earlier visas. I felt like arguing with him, because I didn't stay over 90 days on the visa. Total time was about 87 days including the extension. Perhaps he was counting the days from the issuing of the visa until today and didn't notice that I had already been out of Thailand for over a month?  We will never know. I did not bother arguing it as I think he ought to have been able to work that out himself and debating the point may have led to an unpleasant scene. He already seemed a little annoyed. So I thanked him, took my papers back and left the consulate.

 

MY DECISION

After this experience I have decided that Thailand is no longer the place for me. I may still get another OA visa later this year from AU but only as an interim while I find somewhere better to live.

To summarise, there are several problems facing foreigners: 

 

• the arbitrary and capricious application of unwritten rules at consulates
• horrific reports of people being put in detention for no good reason in airports
• constant changing of visa regulations

 

These problems seem to highlight an increasing hostility from those in power towards westerners. I do say westerners, and I will be more blunt and say "white people", because this group does seem to be increasingly targeted. By comparison, hundreds of Filipinos are arriving on Mondays and Thursdays in visa run vans and are being issued "tourist visas". I saw this myself the last time I was here and others have noted it too. Something is not right here.

 

This increasing passive aggressive hostility towards westerners has coincided with a dictatorial military government which has banned free speech for Thais and sought to stamp out street food in Bangkok. I'm sure there is much more going on than this, but all this is enough for me to say enough! 

Time to move on. Have a nice day ????

Edited August 20, 2019 by Winston Smith

[Happy Grumpy]

You don't sound like a tourist. 

 

19 minutes ago, Winston Smith said:

Time to move on.

From your holiday? 

 

Quote

only as an interim while I find somewhere better to live.

To live?

 

 

Sounds like abuse of Tourist visas. 

 

The IO was right to deny you. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Happy Grumpy

[gearbox]

In your place I would try to get an O-A 1 year visa in Australia ASAP, before the possible health insurance requirements are introduced. This would give you nearly 2 years to decide what to do next. 

[timendres]

Your observations are appreciated and appear to be spot on.

 

But I will add my opinion - I do not believe the government does not want "white people". I think the government does not want "long stay" people. I think they want millions of people who visit and stay no longer than a week or two. The exceptions being cheap labor, and very large investors. It is a short-sighted mindset, but evidence suggests it has taken hold.

[scottiejohn]

Just now, timendres said:

but evidence suggests it has taken hold

What evidence?

[Winston Smith]

4 minutes ago, gearbox said:

In your place I would try to get an O-A 1 year visa in Australia ASAP, before the possible health insurance requirements are introduced. This would give you nearly 2 years to decide what to do next. 

Thanks for the tip ????

[timendres]

1 minute ago, scottiejohn said:

What evidence?

Well, the OP for one. The tightening of the retirement extension rules. The added requirements for retirement deposit periods. The increased airport denials. The tightening of the border run rules. You could argue that these are all intended merely to reduce the number of undesirables, and I would not disagree. My gut instinct tells me that Thailand feels they have enough long stay residents, and they are not excited about a potential tidal wave of retirees from around the world - mostly coming from western nations.

[Mitkof Island]

If i understood before back to back tourist visas have not been allowed for some time. You had to return to your own country and start new. Don,t blame it so much on Thai Immigration blame it on those foreigners who abused the system like this guy. Who had a nice visit recently by Thai Immigration for his numerous questionable visas. Harassing others about their visas and other made up numerous issues via YouTube certainly did not help matters. He is currently MIA. Many are hoping he stays that way.

[darrendsd]

23 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

You don't sound like a tourist. 

 

From your holiday? 

 

To live?

 

 

Sounds like abuse of Tourist visas. 

 

The IO was right to deny you. 

Zzzzzzzz

 

Another i'm special because I've got a 1 year visa poster

 

That's all it is - a 1 year visa - the rules are changing very fast and pretty soon you could be finding yourself in the same shoes as the OP - who know's what plans Immigration have got for the future

 

So stop taking the moral high ground

 

 

[scottiejohn]

4 minutes ago, timendres said:

My gut instinct tells me

 

7 minutes ago, timendres said:

The tightening of the retirement extension rules. The added requirements for retirement deposit periods. The increased airport denials. The tightening of the border run rules. You could argue that these are all intended merely to reduce the number of undesirables, and I would not disagree

Yet another scaremonger with no facts yet agrees there are grounds for the tightening of the rules.

 

[Handsome Gardener]

5 minutes ago, timendres said:

Well, the OP for one. The tightening of the retirement extension rules. The added requirements for retirement deposit periods. The increased airport denials. The tightening of the border run rules. You could argue that these are all intended merely to reduce the number of undesirables, and I would not disagree. My gut instinct tells me that Thailand feels they have enough long stay residents, and they are not excited about a potential tidal wave of retirees from around the world - mostly coming from western nations.

There may be something in that, maybe not - no country on the planet wants to be saddled with old people as they cost money, sad but true. By definition, if people are complaining about what they perceive to be onerous financial conditions to stay, then de facto they aren't ever really going to be someone Thailand, or anywhere, wants. Thailand has moved on now and has more cash reserves than Germany or the UK so don't need the few quid that old expats bring in (frequently over stated on here as crucial to Thailand)

 

The UK is now looking at raising the pension age to 75 (surprised not seen howls of protest on here yet) - as the cost of servicing them is just too costly.

 

Wait until that hits, that will be a few more cleared out I would imagine.

 

 

[Winston Smith]

8 minutes ago, timendres said:

Your observations are appreciated and appear to be spot on.

 

But I will add my opinion - I do not believe the government does not want "white people". I think the government does not want "long stay" people. I think they want millions of people who visit and stay no longer than a week or two. The exceptions being cheap labor, and very large investors. It is a short-sighted mindset, but evidence suggests it has taken hold.

Thanks for the input, but in my view there is no "economic" reason for them not to want long stay people from wealthy countries who only bring in money and don't work illegally or take jobs from locals. It's a net plus economically no matter how you cut it, which if course is why it was encouraged in the first place. Economic reasons provide rational justifications for immigration policies with which I agree. 

 

The other type of justification is political and irrational - you can call it ethno-nationalism. That's why I think skin color is relevant. Historically this type of political trend has never ended well. I wish I were wrong, and have held back on voicing these concerns for years as I like Thailand, but I see the country heading in a problematic direction.

[scottiejohn]

9 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

who know's what plans Immigration have got for the future

Exactly! Who Knows?  So why the doom and gloom?

If you do know the Immigration Department's future  plans can you lend me your crystal ball as it appears to be the best around!

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by scottiejohn

[gearbox]

11 minutes ago, Winston Smith said:

Thanks for the tip ????

If you think you are getting a rough deal with the exchange rate, wait until you see how much a nearly useless mandatory Thai health insurance would cost you ????

 

If you are well organised, you can get a visa in Sydney or Canberra in a week. You would need a mail address in Australia to receive the required documents. You can apply and pay for AFP police check certificate online. If you have secure messaging facilities with your banks you can ask them to issue you printed statements (stamped even better) and send them to your address. I got statements from ING and took almost ten days to arrive, you don't want to get stuck just waiting for your statements.

 

And while you there have a look at the Orange Everyday Debit Visa if you don't have it already. This is the only card in Australia AFAIK which rebates the extortionate Thai ATM fees if you meet certain conditions.

 

 https://www.ing.com.au/everyday-banking.html

 

 

 

[SpanishExpat]

I just can`t understand it. Why so many guys with long-term plans are relying on <deleted>ty SETV from ASEAN-Countries? Is it just convenience or the lack of money to fly back their home-countries. A METV from the home-country is so much safer and I never heard of denials without a reason. My consulate in Germany would be happy to issue me METV forever..year by year. Sadly, the Thai Government won`t allow it and the IO would deny sooner or later. But that`s not the issue here. 

 

In regard to the Filipinos etc. Thailand NEEDS them for the thousand of <deleted>ty jobs. That`s the big difference and that`s why they (and Lao, Myanmar, Cambodians etc) are allowed hassle-free.

[scottiejohn]

16 minutes ago, Handsome Gardener said:

The UK is now looking at raising the pension age to 75

No it is not.  Only a minor "think tank" has suggested this. It is also directly related to employment requirements for the elderly in the UK and has nothing to do with 'retirees' already here in Thailand or arriving in the next few years.

Quote; "The state pension age should rise to 70 in the next nine years and to 75 by 2035 to boost the British economy, according to Iain Duncan Smith's think tank."

Edited August 20, 2019 by scottiejohn

[Winston Smith]

2 minutes ago, gearbox said:

If you think you are getting a rough deal with the exchange rate, wait until you see how much a nearly useless mandatory Thai health insurance would cost you ????

 

If you are well organised, you can get a visa in Sydney or Canberra in a week. You would need a mail address in Australia to receive the required documents. You can apply and pay for AFP police check certificate online. If you have secure messaging facilities with your banks you can ask them to issue you printed statements (stamped even better) and send them to your address. I got statements from ING and took almost ten days to arrive, you don't want to get stuck just waiting for your statements.

 

And while you there have a look at the Orange Everyday Debit Visa if you don't have it already. This is the only card in Australia AFAIK which rebates the extortionate Thai ATM fees if you meet certain conditions.

 

 https://www.ing.com.au/everyday-banking.html

 

 

 

 

That sounds great I'll look into it. Currently use Citibank which has no fees if you use their ATMs but it would be good to have a card that can be used on any ATM.

[Essex Reject]

I'm at a point now where I actually WANT to be forced out, they will be doing me a big favour, so please bring it on. Would have been out of here ages ago if it wasn't for commitments.

[Winston Smith]

3 minutes ago, SpanishExpat said:

I just can`t understand it. Why so many guys with long-term plans are relying on <deleted>ty SETV from ASEAN-Countries? Is it just convenience or the lack of money to fly back their home-countries. A METV from the home-country is so much safer and I never heard of denials without a reason. My consulate in Germany would be happy to issue me METV forever..year by year. Sadly, the Thai Government won`t allow it and the IO would deny sooner or later. But that`s not the issue here. 

 

In regard to the Filipinos etc. Thailand NEEDS them for the thousand of <deleted>ty jobs. That`s the big difference and that`s why they (and Lao, Myanmar, Cambodians etc) are allowed hassle-free.

You're assuming that the current status quo will remain in place. Everything is in transition. Just because it's easy to get an METV visa this year in Germany doesn't mean it will be easy next year. Prior to 2019 Savannakhet was a stupidly easy place to get a visa too ????

[JeffersLos]

Besides, I thought the worst fear about Savannakhet was that were changing to appointments only, or demanding financials for the multi-entry marriage visas. 

[marin]

57 minutes ago, Winston Smith said:

After this experience I have decided that Thailand is no longer the place for me. I may still get another OA visa later this year from AU but only as an interim while I find somewhere better to live.

Lets be honest here. You chose not to transfer funds and obtain the correct visa. Then you tried to circumvent this by applying for another "tourist" visa.   Yet by saying you will find a new place to live you admit to not being a tourist but someone living here.  Dont blame it on Immigration this time... Sorry you had bad luck though.
 

[SpanishExpat]

6 minutes ago, Winston Smith said:

You're assuming that the current status quo will remain in place. Everything is in transition. Just because it's easy to get an METV visa this year in Germany doesn't mean it will be easy next year. Prior to 2019 Savannakhet was a stupidly easy place to get a visa too ????

Well even if it was. You will get denied sooner or later doing it. So there`s just (and that was confirmed to me by an IO) zero communication between the embassies/consulates and the immigration. That was the main point of my post. 

But I still don`t get why so many people stress themselves with SETV. Sort everything out in JAN/FEB after Christmas in your home country and thats it for the year.

Edited August 20, 2019 by SpanishExpat

[ubonjoe]

Some inflammatory posts, flaming and replies to them have been removed. Time to end it or formal warnings will be given.

[Winston Smith]

9 minutes ago, Essex Reject said:

I'm at a point now where I actually WANT to be forced out, they will be doing me a big favour, so please bring it on. Would have been out of here ages ago if it wasn't for commitments.

Sometimes you need a shock to make the right decision. For me constantly moving goal posts and whimsical behaviour of officials is getting a bit much. I think it would be preferable to live in Vietnam where there is more straighforward corruption, and one's journey can be  smoothed with a few hundred thousand Dong ????

[JeffersLos]

10 minutes ago, vinniekintana said:

It's not just 'white' ppl...they despise all foreigners equally.

Try living here as Burmese or Khmer, and see if you still think the same. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by JeffersLos

[madmen]

You should read his post carefully. He intends to get an O-A visa in Australia, which means he has the 800k baht, but not in a Thai bank. 

This has all been discussed to death yet op puts up a big drama Post.

He doesn't appear to understand the system. There laws in place for
Long stay visas. If he wants to stay he needs to pay

All these border runs and running back and forth to Australia is going to cost more than the loss on exchange rate so where is the logic

[gearbox]

2 minutes ago, Winston Smith said:

Sometimes you need a shock to make the right decision. For me constantly moving goal posts and whimsical behaviour of officials is getting a bit much. I think it would be preferable to live in Vietnam where there is more straighforward corruption, and one's journey can be  smoothed with a few hundred thousand Dong ????

You have to be in the right circumstances to make a decision like this easily - it means you most likely don't have a wife,gf,kids,property etc in Thailand. For other it could be much more difficult and tricky.

[visarunner]

23 minutes ago, SpanishExpat said:

I just can`t understand it. Why so many guys with long-term plans are relying on <deleted>ty SETV from ASEAN-Countries? Is it just convenience or the lack of money to fly back their home-countries. A METV from the home-country is so much safer and I never heard of denials without a reason. My consulate in Germany would be happy to issue me METV forever..year by year. Sadly, the Thai Government won`t allow it and the IO would deny sooner or later. But that`s not the issue here. 

 

In regard to the Filipinos etc. Thailand NEEDS them for the thousand of <deleted>ty jobs. That`s the big difference and that`s why they (and Lao, Myanmar, Cambodians etc) are allowed hassle-free.

Re Filipios you wrong, in the meantime they are the only on the 2 land border limit. Myanmar can enter only by air if they want visa free entry. The Countries no hassle are Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia.

[Winston Smith]

6 minutes ago, gearbox said:

You have to be in the right circumstances to make a decision like this easily - it means you most likely don't have a wife,gf,kids,property etc in Thailand. For other it could be much more difficult and tricky.

Yes I totally appreciate what you are saying, and this problem applies to many people I know who would love to get out of Australia due to the country descending into tyranny.

[moana]

1 hour ago, Winston Smith said:

I discovered to my horror that in order to extend it I would need to transfer significant funds into a Thai bank. This was a no-op for me due to the terrible exchange rate in 2019

You don't need to actually exchange to THB. You can open a FCD account denominated in AUD with any bank. Immigration will accept such accounts, and the required bank document will show the THB value of the account on the day of issue.

 

You can then wait until you believe the exchange rate is favorable and exchange, or just keep it as AUD forever.

1 hour ago, Winston Smith said:

By comparison, hundreds of Filipinos are arriving on Mondays and Thursdays in visa run vans and are being issued "tourist visas"

The Philippines is a part of ASEAN. They have specific visa agreements in place that are not available to other countries.