Terminations - how are they handled over here?

[onlycw]

Care to share your experience? 

[Scott]

I've not been fired, but I have, over the years, terminated maybe 50-60 teachers.   That's over working in an administrative capacity for around 25 years.  

 

If the person is accused of something egregious, such as hitting a child (usually leaving marks), then the dismissal is immediate.   I usually asked them to leave the school immediately (with pay), and we would investigate and make a determination.   Anyone involved was interviewed and ask to give a written statement.   The parents are usually involved and once in a while they have asked for a teacher to get a 'reprieve'.   In those situations, the teacher may get a formal warning and be allowed to stay, but generally they are discharged.   They get 1 months pay.

 

Staff being discharged for reasons, such as being late, absences, incompetence, etc., usually get three formal warnings, but in my experience they usually get one verbal warning, one formal, written warning and then dismissed.   There is usually a period of time for them to improve.  

 

Generally, they notification of one month that they are being discharged and are paid for that month, but nothing beyond that.  

 

 

[Preacher]

As Scott indicated, in some instances the law provides for immediate dismissal. In other case of misconduct warnings must be given be for a person can be dismissed. 

 

Dismissal is often immediate. What I hear about teachers around my town being fired is that the schools has had enough of them and they are being told to leave school immediately, with the school paying for the full month. Not sure if schools follow the letter of the law in this regards.

 

If you are fired you can go to the labour office to make a complaint. They will investigate and if unfair seek compensation for you. 

 

Most foreigners in my town are being recruited through an agency. So formally they have a problem with the agency not the school itself as the agency is the employer not the school.

 

[Big Guns]

In my 13 years teaching at International schools here I've never seen anyone dismissed. The school usually just doesn't renew the fixed term contract. As I explained in another thread if the school does this they are liable for severance. In practice they don't have to pay as moat teachers just move on.

[new2here]

I teach at a university and all dismissals/terminations are handled as per the universities campus wide HR policy - which for the most part is the same for Thai staff and non-Thai staff with minor exception (things like reporting to Labour of termination of a foreigner). Individual departments are not allowed to create their own nor deviate from the university established policy.

Like Scott, our policy lays out offenses, if proven, mandate immediate dismissal .. most of these causes are also crimes as defined by Thai law... A few are not, but most are..  If a teacher is suspect of one of these offenses, they are placed on inactive duty (which is fully paid and still accrues seniority, vacation and sick time).  An investigation is done, and the employee is appointed an independent "advisor" (who essentially acts as their defense lawyer) from the HR department as well who may sit in on all meetings, check/verify evidence, investigate, call witnesses etc.. A panel is held of 5 administrators and for a termination to be upheld a vote must be 3 or more of the five. 
For lesser accused offenses, the process is much less structured, but still has an investigation process, but no advisor appointed to you.  After the investigation, the panel recommends a punishment which is from a range prescribed by the university. The proposed punishment then goes to the Dean of your Faculty for his/her approval, then to the Associate President for Administration.  You may appeal any finding.

 

For purely performance related dismissals (note that this is different from contract non-renewals) those follow a similar tract as the above, but take more time as the department must prove to the Dean that your performance is not up to prescribed standards.  These dismissals DO require that the department must have given you at least one prior formal notice, AND a second notice which also requires the department to draft for you a Performance Improvement Plan or PIP. If you don't follow the PIP, then they can move to dismissal, but not unless they've given you the first written warning, and second step of doing a PIP for you.

 

For non-renewals, they are required to notify you at least 30 calendar days prior to your contract end for contracts of 6 months, but less than one year. Contracts that are one year or more, require they give you 60 days prior notice. They must also tell you the reason: such as lack of funding, etc..  They can't use the contract non-renewal process as a means to sidestep the performance dismissal process in that if they serve you with a 30/60 day non-renewal notice, the department can't then turn around and file (with HR) an open position announcement for the exact same position (as defined by HR classification code) that you held and are now not being renewed.

 

Overall, I've found at the university level, dismissal, supervision, hiring, etc are all handled quite transparently and they have a pretty well thought out process.

 

[natway09]

In most cases, not very well

[phantomfiddler]

I have fired more people than I can remember, probably in excess of 50 people over the last 30 years, and the main thing I have learned is to wear a crash helmet with front bars ????

[Survivor9]

At will employees can be fired for little to no reason. Time to move on.

[Isaanbiker]

On 8/22/2019 at 9:18 AM, Preacher said:

As Scott indicated, in some instances the law provides for immediate dismissal. In other case of misconduct warnings must be given be for a person can be dismissed. 

 

Dismissal is often immediate. What I hear about teachers around my town being fired is that the schools has had enough of them and they are being told to leave school immediately, with the school paying for the full month. Not sure if schools follow the letter of the law in this regards.

 

If you are fired you can go to the labour office to make a complaint. They will investigate and if unfair seek compensation for you. 

 

Most foreigners in my town are being recruited through an agency. So formally they have a problem with the agency not the school itself as the agency is the employer not the school.

 

 

Your last point is only partly right. If a school is using an agency the employees receive their salaries from the agency, but the school still has to create a contract in Thai with the employee to get them a work permit. 

 

To be able to apply for a work permit, the foreigners have to sign a contract in Thai, issued by the school and the content is usually not shown, often totally unknown to the foreign employees. 

 

  One of the reasons why some schools are using agencies is the natural firing aspect. If the school superiors tell the agency that they don't want a particular person, he/she'll be gone soon.

 

  If the agency doesn't follow the school's advice, they can quickly lose their contract with the school. 

 

  If the majority of students at a high school dislike their foreign teacher for whatever reason, it's just a matter of time when he/she has to go.

 

   

[Scott]

Troll posts removed.

[Rhys]

Termination and not renewing the contract... a slight turn of the process.  They don't like you  or if you rub them the wrong way, they don't renew the contact for whatever reason they can give.