Trump presses U.S. companies to close China operations

[keemapoot]

5 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

What if other countries didn't want to do business with the USA because of our dictator?

So true. Luckily, this or any dictator can only last 4, or in the worst case 8 years. That is, unless that dictator can successfully warp the democratic process so that it takes many years to repair it. At this point, he has done significant damage, but it is repairable. 

[DLock]

7 hours ago, candide said:

Very interesting article. Thank you for linking it. It has to be balanced by the respective ideological ability of US and Chinese governments to mobilise public opinion. The Chinese public opinion is very well conditioned to endure economic hardship in the name of nationalism, as a 'victim' of the imperialism of the 'bad' USA.

 

I tend to agree with you.

 

We hear all the anti-Trump rhetoric about how stupid he is, but we don't hear the same about the Chinese. What do people think about the Chinese stance? With the Chinese exporting 3 times more goods to the US that the US does to China, and China needing a lot of food products...do the US really need more iPhones?

 

But I also believe the Chinese older generation have endured, and can endure a lot more than your spoiled and whiny American and they have the free speech means to voice it...not so much the Chinese.

 

This is the trade war that needed to happen a long time ago.

 

Personally, I am enjoying the political battle. I really don't know how it will play out and who will surrender first.

[DLock]

1 hour ago, keemapoot said:

So true. Luckily, this or any dictator can only last 4, or in the worst case 8 years. That is, unless that dictator can successfully warp the democratic process so that it takes many years to repair it. At this point, he has done significant damage, but it is repairable. 

What "significant damage" has Trump done?

[Benmart]

On 8/24/2019 at 7:49 AM, Berkshire said:

Trump is losing what's left of his mind.  Yet, his brainwashed supporters will still try to defend the indefensible.  Does Trump understand the free market and capitalism? 

Is his supporters "brainwash" any different from his critics and opponents "brainwash"? Such terms are meaningless and is "indefensible" as well. Can you see how senseless all this rhetoric is?

[gearbox]

8 hours ago, Guitarzan said:

It's about time Trump started acting like a dictator! Democracy is over rated!  

Democracy is not perfect. When a vote by a uni professor equals to a vote by a plumber you get things like Trump and Brexit. The voting system needs retrofitting.

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Berkshire said:

What if other countries didn't want to do business with the USA because of our dictator?

I think we are quickly approaching a level of fatigue, where both Americans and people from around the world are just tired, and exhausted from his daily nonsensical diatribes on twitter. So many of which are just the expressions of vengeance. A juvenile need to just lash out at a perceived slight, like the statement that wanting to buy Greenland was ubsurd, which is certainly was. Someone needs to just take away his device. Never in the history of the world, have we seen a major leader make such of a fool of himself on the world stage, daily. Never in the history of the world has a world leader been the most mocked man on the planet. Is this nonsense sustainable? Is it productive, on any level? Is it necessary?

[soalbundy]

17 hours ago, zydeco said:

That picture looks like America, Japan, and Asia on one side and Eurosclerosis on the other.

Looks to me from body language that Merkel is giving Trump an earful and he doesn't like it. Reminds me of the scene in the film Downfall where one general is telling Hitler that Steiner couldn't attack the Russians due to a lack of manpower, all the other generals agreed but didn't dare say anything.

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, gearbox said:

Democracy is not perfect. When a vote by a uni professor equals to a vote by a plumber you get things like Trump and Brexit. The voting system needs retrofitting.

Are you able to give us an outline of how you would change things?

[DLock]

3 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Democracy is not perfect. When a vote by a uni professor equals to a vote by a plumber you get things like Trump and Brexit. The voting system needs retrofitting.

Why should a Uni professor vote be any more important that a Plumbers vote?

[Joe Mcseismic]

On 8/24/2019 at 10:22 AM, pegman said:

The Americans obviously can't compete with China, which just proves they have an inferior economic system. 

Not at all. You need to read up on something called Comparative Advantage. This is why manufacturers fled the USA and why they won't be coming back.

It's also why the USA has high technology and innovative companies.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Joe Mcseismic

[gearbox]

9 minutes ago, DLock said:

Why should a Uni professor vote be any more important that a Plumbers vote?

The nations always depended on people with high education level to give them upper hand in trade and weaponry. The backbone of every successful nation are people with high level of education, and if these are of good character, they would definitely have a better look about how a nation should move forward. Think about it as a shareholding company - if the company is more dependent on a person to produce better result, the person either gets bigger pay or stock options (voting rights).

[gearbox]

23 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Are you able to give us an outline of how you would change things?

As a crude attempt, 1 vote by a voter with lower than batchelor degree = 0.75 votes of batchelor degree or higher. Deduct extra from welfare recipients, otherwise they vote to redistribute someone else's money. Perversely the China's social credit system is somewhat a good tool to do vote weighting, however it is irrelevant there. 

 

Populism is a threat to democracy, as uneducated voters can be manipulated. Promise to the voters that they can get away with theft, or get something for nothing, and see yourself elected.

 

[Guitarzan]

3 hours ago, Berkshire said:

What if other countries didn't want to do business with the USA because of our dictator?

So you are equating the Chinese authoritarian communist party with the USA? Nice!

 Other countries have a choice, and so do we. The truth is most other countries can't afford NOT to do business with the USA. China has no oil, the USA is the largest exporter of oil in the world, just to put it into perspective.

 

Wake me up when "our dictator" starts lining up his opposition and holds public executions, raids CNN, MSNBC, and throws Wolf Blitzer and Rachal Madcow in the gulag. Your hallucinations of Trump being a dictator don't quite gel with reality, and is insulting to people who actually have lived, and presently live under true tyrants, and communist dictators. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Guitarzan

[puck2]

1 hour ago, DLock said:

What "significant damage" has Trump done?

 

The last "significant damage" - among hundreds - is the trade war.

 

 

@Berkshire, here it's confirmed what you have said:

Trump is losing what's left of his mind.  Yet, his brainwashed supporters will still try to defend the indefensible.  Does Trump understand the free market and capitalism?

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to an off topic video has been removed. 

[DLock]

21 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The nations always depended on people with high education level to give them upper hand in trade and weaponry. The backbone of every successful nation are people with high level of education, and if these are of good character, they would definitely have a better look about how a nation should move forward. Think about it as a shareholding company - if the company is more dependent on a person to produce better result, the person either gets bigger pay or stock options (voting rights).

You argument of course has merit.

 

Political decisions are important, and allowing incompetent, uneducated and ignorant people to vote based on someone's appearance or because they are a woman or because they hate the other candidate or because of "herd mentality" is a poor vote.

 

The challenge of setting up an epistocracy and allowing more knowledgeable people to define political direction is the challenge of defining that political "competence" or political knowledge, as well as ensuring no demographic has more representation (i.e. white males).

 

This is a big topic, and happy to debate it out.

[spidermike007]

20 hours ago, Mavideol said:

you forgot to mention his daughter companies shoes, bags, clothing, etc... but MAGA it's fine because he suffer from short term memory loss, it appears it runs in his family

His daughters company went belly up, as the Trump association was so toxic, none of the retailers wanted to touch her products. It appears she has the same level of business acumen as her dad. But you are right. 90% of her products, and Trump related products are made in China. Hypocrisy? It does not count for them. Does not apply. They are above the fray. They are superior in every way, so the laws and standards that apply to the average American, do not apply to that family. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by spidermike007

[Sujo]

Best to just ignore the buffoon. 

 

When he is out of office then go to town on everything.he says and does.

 

Jnr, eric and ivanka will live with the shame.

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, Guitarzan said:

So you are equating the Chinese authoritarian communist party with the USA? Nice!

 Other countries have a choice, and so do we. The truth is most other countries can't afford NOT to do business with the USA. China has no oil, the USA is the largest exporter of oil in the world, just to put it into perspective.

 

Wake me up when "our dictator" starts lining up his opposition and holds public executions, raids CNN, MSNBC, and throws Wolf Blitzer and Rachal Madcow in the gulag. Your hallucinations of Trump being a dictator don't quite gel with reality, and is insulting to people who actually have lived, and presently live under true tyrants, and communist dictators. 

"China has no oil, the USA is the largest exporter of oil in the world, just to put it into perspective."

Your perspective is wrong, USA ranks 8th, see http://www.worldstopexports.com/worlds-top-oil-exports-country/.

 

"So you are equating the Chinese authoritarian communist party with the USA?"

No, that is not what was said.

[puck2]

18 minutes ago, gearbox said:

As a crude attempt, 1 vote by a voter with lower than batchelor degree = 0.75 votes of batchelor degree or higher. Deduct extra from welfare recipients, otherwise they vote to redistribute someone else's money. Perversely the China's social credit system is somewhat a good tool to do vote weighting, however it is irrelevant there. 

 

Populism is a threat to democracy, as uneducated voters can be manipulated. Promise to the voters that they can get away with theft, or get something for nothing, and see yourself elected.

 

Then Trump never would have been chosen - following your theory.

It's proven that the REPs have a lower IQ than the DEMs, on average. Even Trump himself would have been below the level of "educated" candidates for this job, therefore not electable.

 

[Stargeezr]

The USA, China, and Russia all have very large military. There are some educated

people in these organizations, however there are also a lot of general members

who are just order followers, or the blue collar types. This is the same in the

civilian part of the countries as well. Some educated, and lots of blue collar

people. I do not have much trust in the educated and rich people in any country

including Canada, so I do not have much hope for the future. The best I can hope for

is for a better PM for Canada, and for better relations for the US, China and Russia, but

I think the recession is coming soon to both the USA, Canada, as well as other

countries. Hey Greece, do you still have free medical coverage, and rich doctors, and

are you ever going to get out of debt?  I just hope some positive things come out

of this latest G7 party.

Geezer

[spidermike007]

12 minutes ago, puck2 said:

Then Trump never would have been chosen - following your theory.

It's proven that the REPs have a lower IQ than the DEMs, on average. Even Trump himself would have been below the level of "educated" candidates for this job, therefore not electable.

 

I estimate his IQ to be around 90-95. Remember what his college professors said about him? And though he managed to pass the bachelors program, he could not get into the MBA program, as he just did not have the brain power to do so. So he quit after the bachelors degree. If you think about it, this puts him at a disadvantage with nearly any European or Asian leader he negotiates with. In the case of guys like XI, the disadvantage is probably in the neighborhood of 80 IQ points. 

[Guitarzan]

59 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Democracy is not perfect. When a vote by a uni professor equals to a vote by a plumber you get things like Trump and Brexit. The voting system needs retrofitting.

University professors are Socialists. We need more plumbers!  

Democracy a delightful form of government, anarchic and motley, assigning a kind of equality indiscriminately to equals and un-equals alike! ~ Plato

 

[Guitarzan]

31 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"China has no oil, the USA is the largest exporter of oil in the world, just to put it into perspective."

Your perspective is wrong, USA ranks 8th, see http://www.worldstopexports.com/worlds-top-oil-exports-country/.

 

"So you are equating the Chinese authoritarian communist party with the USA?"

No, that is not what was said.

I stand corrected, the US is the largest producer of oil in the world.

In the context of this thread and since we are talking of China, and reference to dictators, safe to assume other countries = China. At least that's my take on it.

[Thomas J]

On 8/24/2019 at 7:55 AM, Berkshire said:

I'd ask you to explain that, but I'm sure your explanation will not make any sense.

Berkshire, arguing with liberals is like trying to eat jello with chopsticks.  You don't have enough paper and enough crayons to graph it for them.  Despite the fact that the USA economy under Obama was a disaster and today it is the best in 60 years they hate Trump just because they dislike his persona.  China has stolen U.S. intellectual property for decades costing the USA untold hundreds of billions.  They want "one way" free trade.  No restrictions on their products being sold in the USA but huge impediments to any foreign products that might have a negative impact on Chinese factories and workers.  It is a shame that there is this mud slinging between the two countries but if the presidents who proceeded him all the way back to Nixon had some balls and stopped the unfair practices administrations ago, there would not be these problems today.  

[Traubert]

10 hours ago, Guitarzan said:

I remember the days when The USA didn't do business with communists, and brutal dictators. I'd like to see that happen again. 

 

10 hours ago, Guitarzan said:

It's about time Trump started acting like a dictator! Democracy is over rated!  

Quite conflicting views there, to say the least.

[Sujo]

7 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Berkshire, arguing with liberals is like trying to eat jello with chopsticks.  You don't have enough paper and enough crayons to graph it for them.  Despite the fact that the USA economy under Obama was a disaster and today it is the best in 60 years they hate Trump just because they dislike his persona.  China has stolen U.S. intellectual property for decades costing the USA untold hundreds of billions.  They want "one way" free trade.  No restrictions on their products being sold in the USA but huge impediments to any foreign products that might have a negative impact on Chinese factories and workers.  It is a shame that there is this mud slinging between the two countries but if the presidents who proceeded him all the way back to Nixon had some balls and stopped the unfair practices administrations ago, there would not be these problems today.  

Is this the comedy section of TV

[gearbox]

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I estimate his IQ to be around 90-95. Remember what his college professors said about him? And though he managed to pass the bachelors program, he could not get into the MBA program, as he just did not have the brain power to do so. So he quit after the bachelors degree. If you think about it, this puts him at a disadvantage with nearly any European or Asian leader he negotiates with. In the case of guys like XI, the disadvantage is probably in the neighborhood of 80 IQ points. 

 

One doesn't need to be super smart to lead a nation. It is also important to be of a good character, and not just to try to play the masses only to get elected. 

 

Think about this. What makes the West blue collar workers so special, what kind of skills they have to demand salaries which are times higher in China or Thailand or Vietnam? Absolutely nothing. A car can be manufactured in any of these countries with roughly the same outcome.

What makes it possible for their pay to be much higher is the education and strength of people like the Intel chip designers, which gives much better trade outcome and new product development. 

People like Trump divided their nations and created resentment within. Instead of improving the levels of education and competitiveness, they promise to bring back the low level manufacturing.  Instead of making the next generation chip designers, they are trying to make them thong makers.

 

Long term this policy is going to create even more damage. There are many more non-US multinationals with China manufacturing facilities. Why would Toyota leave China, the biggest car market? Currently a Ford manufactured anywhere cannot compete with a Toyota in terms of quality, what would happen if it costs even more when manufactured in US?   

 

[riclag]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I think we are quickly approaching a level of fatigue, where both Americans and people from around the world are just tired, and exhausted from his daily nonsensical diatribes on twitter. So many of which are just the expressions of vengeance. A juvenile need to just lash out at a perceived slight, like the statement that wanting to buy Greenland was ubsurd, which is certainly was. Someone needs to just take away his device. Never in the history of the world, have we seen a major leader make such of a fool of himself on the world stage, daily. Never in the history of the world has a world leader been the most mocked man on the planet. Is this nonsense sustainable? Is it productive, on any level? Is it necessary?

Never in the history of the world has a POTUS  stood up for "Americans" and the economy quite like this one.

Edited August 25, 2019 by riclag

[Thomas J]

The theft of USA intellectual property is serious and it is not an isolated event.  China lets USA companies spend billions in research and development and then engages in active espionage to steal those trade secrets to enrich China at the expense of the USA. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/1-in-5-companies-say-china-stole-their-ip-within-the-last-year-cnbc.html