Fragile Egos

[Genmai]

Disclaimer - This is just my opinion based on my observations and is not a blanket statement.

 

Is it just me or do Thai people seem to have some of the most fragile egos in the world? It's all smiles and sabais, but as soon as there's a hint of criticism its a full 180 to kindergarten-land complete with huffing and puffing and "not me, I don't know, not us, not all Thais, you don't understand, not my fault, etc etc etc".

 

Several employees have quit immediately after being told that their work needed to be better. The handymen, gardeners, cleaners and helpers we've had over the years won't look at me in the eyes now because a long time ago I politely asked them to stop whatever stupid thing they were continually doing which I was silently tolerating for months. Even restaurant staff exhibit this behavior. The few times I've found plastic, bugs or random objects in my food and politely told the staff - it's always been the same thing. Smile turns to frown, no sorry just a "Oh" and pick up the plate, bring it back without the <deleted> in it and avoid our table from then on.

 

Our neighbors used to keep me awake by drinking, playing video games, shouting and fighting, etc, all well till 2 or 3am. I asked my partner if I could go and knock on their door. She advised me against it, instead suggesting that she talk to her Mom and then the Mom will talk to their Mom and then their Mom might mention it to them and if we do it enough times it could work and there might finally come a time when I can get some sleep. Did it work? Eventually after 2 years they moved out so yes, I guess? Back home I would have just opened the window on day 1 and told the idiots they were too loud and be done in 5 minutes. 

 

Is this what is meant by "compassion" here? To be tolerant of other peoples' stupid behaviors?

 

I don't understand how anything gets done in this environment. How does everyone approach criticism here? The common advice seems to be to leave it to the Thai partner, however after several years of leaving responsible adult conversation to my partner like I'm an inept infant the whole thing is getting kind of stale. Not to mention that my partner isn't immune to faults either and to this date I haven't found a way of addressing them without a huff-and-puff session.

 

How does one properly tell Thai people that they've done something wrong? 

[Berkshire]

Let's be fair, NOBODY ANYWHERE likes to be criticized....especially rudely.  Whether it's in Thailand or back home.  If you told your electrician or car mechanic back in the USA that they were incompetent and didn't know what they were doing, I'm pretty sure they will not take it well.  Like anything involving human relations and interaction, it's how you do it.  It's not difficult to be magnanimous and reasonable, even in Thailand.  You should try it some time.

[ezzra]

They don't.. i have several situations where workers at my place and place of works stuffed up, caused damages and didn't perform to expectations ut the person in charge wouldn't say anything, and when i asked why, they just smiled and ignored me and said nothing, so in order to pass on the message and avoid more screw ups, i had to learn Thai and tell those guys off myself...

[petermik]

Welcome to Thailand

Many years ago an ex of mine here had 9 ladies under her control (insurance claims department) and was constantly complaining that this certain lady never followed company procedure...sack her I said...."no cannot do that she has family to support"....was her reply

[thaiguzzi]

31 minutes ago, Genmai said:

I don't understand

No, you no unnerstan.

You Felang.

You not good heart.

You not cool heart.

You hot heart.

Have to be cool heart for you unnerstan.

[safarimike11]

22 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Let's be fair, NOBODY ANYWHERE likes to be criticized....especially rudely.  Whether it's in Thailand or back home.  If you told your electrician or car mechanic back in the USA that they were incompetent and didn't know what they were doing, I'm pretty sure they will not take it well.  Like anything involving human relations and interaction, it's how you do it.  It's not difficult to be magnanimous and reasonable, even in Thailand.  You should try it some time.

With regards to "workers", especially those doing plumbing, mechanical, constructional or electrical jobs, you have to remember that the great majority of people doing these jobs haven't done apprenticeships; they have just started doing the work and have learned on the job. From my experience, if you quietly observe (pretend to do something nearby without actually staring at them) and when you see them do something that is wrong or the wrong way, and say something like: "can I make a suggestion" etc. and them show them the correct way of doing it as an advisory measure, it tends to work.

As for the noisy neighbours, when I was having this problem I went out onto the balcony at 2:30 am and said: "Don't you people ever sleep"? (They "lost face" and went inside).

[safarimike11]

8 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

No, you no unnerstan.

You Felang.

You not good heart.

You not cool heart.

You hot heart.

Have to be cool heart for you unnerstan.

Chang: him not forget.

[kellersphuket]

53 minutes ago, Genmai said:

Is it just me or do Thai people seem to have some of the most fragile egos in the world?

Yes, they do.

[safarimike11]

20 minutes ago, petermik said:

Welcome to Thailand

Many years ago an ex of mine here had 9 ladies under her control (insurance claims department) and was constantly complaining that this certain lady never followed company procedure...sack her I said...."no cannot do that she has family to support"....was her reply

We used to employ a cleaning lady one day a week to clean the house. As well as her fee, we used to either pick her up and take her home or pay for the motorbike taxi as well as providing lunch. She was actually a very good cleaner, but after a few weeks she tried to tap my wife up for a loan, so my wife fired her.

My wife tried other cleaners, but none were as good as the one she fired, so in the end she employed her once more. Everything was fine for a while, when one day she turned up unexpectedly and gave my wife "my baby sick, need to take her to hospital". My wife asked me what I thought and I said fire her (for good). My wife agreed, stating that there is a free (30 baht a year for Thais) government hospital not far from where she lives.

Moral of the story: I am the only "Farang" living on this moban and it was her husband that kept putting her up to trying to fleece my wife.

[kellersphuket]

54 minutes ago, Genmai said:

Our neighbors used to keep me awake by drinking, playing video games, shouting and fighting, etc, all well till 2 or 3am

Man, how I feel your pain.

[Beggar]

My experience is even in the West criticism is not always welcome. I made the experience that you should not criticize but motivate others to do it better. Tell them about a problem and ask them how to do it better. And then turn your ideas into their ideas. I know it is a lot of delicate work. But if you are successful with this approach you will have very motivated employees. And perhaps they will even like you. 

[from the home of CC]

it's just you..

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, Genmai said:

Is it just me or do Thai people seem to have some of the most fragile egos in the world?

It just you, and you' could be exaggerating a touch.

[fusion58]

2 hours ago, Genmai said:

Is it just me or do Thai people seem to have some of the most fragile egos in the world?

It's not just you.

 

That's why "face" is paramount.

[Puchaiyank]

You, an infidel from a Western country...want to tell a Thai who has been coddled, protected, and insulated from criticism since birth...that you are disappointed in their work or service?  What could be more insulting?   Shame on you for bringing some reality into their lives!

[swissie]

There are so many angles to Thai-Ego's and Losing Face, for simplicy's sake, let's reduce it to Farang/Thai relationships.

In Thailand a family is not a debating-club. "The head of the household" calls the shots.
Farangs in a relationship are well advised to imitate Thai-Husbands. (I call the shots).
This concept, imposed firmly from the very beginning, Thai ladies will accept this without much opposition.
Trying to involve a Thai-Lady into any "decision-making-process" will only produce a lot of "up to you" responses.
Or the other extreme, when a Thai-Lady realises that the Farang is not willing (or capable) to be "the captain of the ship", she will grab the helm. With predictable results.

[safarimike11]

14 hours ago, swissie said:

There are so many angles to Thai-Ego's and Losing Face, for simplicy's sake, let's reduce it to Farang/Thai relationships.

In Thailand a family is not a debating-club. "The head of the household" calls the shots.
Farangs in a relationship are well advised to imitate Thai-Husbands. (I call the shots).
This concept, imposed firmly from the very beginning, Thai ladies will accept this without much opposition.
Trying to involve a Thai-Lady into any "decision-making-process" will only produce a lot of "up to you" responses.
Or the other extreme, when a Thai-Lady realises that the Farang is not willing (or capable) to be "the captain of the ship", she will grab the helm. With predictable results.

I think the use of "reverse psychology" is a useful tool here (as is probably the case everywhere).

Example 1: My wife wanted to (and actually asked me) have her nephew - male then aged 16 - come and live with us while she was putting him through college; although I wasn't thrilled by the idea, I agreed. Conclusion: He didn't come and stay.

My wife rents out the townhouse we previously lived in (which I obviously bought in her name). She doesn't bother with short-term rentals: only minimum one year, providing one month's notice before moving out.

After 9 months, the Thai tenants informed my wife that they would be moving out at the end of the month, but only gave her 6 days notice, so she said: "no problem, you will lose your (2 months deposit) and she put up the "House for rent" sign shortly afterwards. Conclusion: they are still renting the house.