Let's Drive Down Rents!

[thaigene2]

Well now....how sad all those Thais (and some farangs) bought places to 'rent to the farangs'. Nobody nibbling?

Trouble is there is a growing glut of new condos to rent - from the Noble Lite place in Aree to the all those low-rise places in Suk and Srinakarin. 100% sold-out - 20% occupied??? Hmmm..

Renters are spoiled for choice (except those who don't know north from south and rely on the BKK Post for possible locations - and stupid rents).

Now is the time to grind folks.

I propose the following and welcome your criticisms. (for renters - take that criticism with a grain o' salt -whatdo i have to gain?? compared to them?)

SO....

Suk Soi 5 - 11:

2bdrm - 85 sq m = 25,000

3 bdrm - 100-120 sq m = 30,0000

Suk soi 29 - 51:

2 bdrm - 85 sq m = 35,000

3 bdrm - 100-120 sq m = 40,000

Aree area to Victory Monument:

2 bdrm - 85 sq m = 20,000

3 bdrm - 100-120 sq m = 25,000

silom - don't know - who cares.

Sri Nakarin

2 bdrm - 85 sq m = 15-20,000

3 bdrm - 100-120 sq m = 20-25,000

Go on flame me...but I reckon this is reality as farangs start to dwindle...hey...why not add pattaya prices? et al??

[bkkandrew]

Well now....how sad all those Thais (and some farangs) bought places to 'rent to the farangs'. Nobody nibbling?

Trouble is there is a growing glut of new condos to rent - from the Noble Lite place in Aree to the all those low-rise places in Suk and Srinakarin. 100% sold-out - 20% occupied??? Hmmm..

Renters are spoiled for choice (except those who don't know north from south and rely on the BKK Post for possible locations - and stupid rents).

Now is the time to grind folks.

I propose the following and welcome your criticisms. (for renters - take that criticism with a grain o' salt -whatdo i have to gain?? compared to them?)

SO....

Suk Soi 5 - 11:

2bdrm - 85 sq m = 25,000

3 bdrm - 100-120 sq m = 30,0000

Suk soi 29 - 51:

2 bdrm - 85 sq m = 35,000

3 bdrm - 100-120 sq m = 40,000

Aree area to Victory Monument:

2 bdrm - 85 sq m = 20,000

3 bdrm - 100-120 sq m = 25,000

silom - don't know - who cares.

Sri Nakarin

2 bdrm - 85 sq m = 15-20,000

3 bdrm - 100-120 sq m = 20-25,000

Go on flame me...but I reckon this is reality as farangs start to dwindle...hey...why not add pattaya prices? et al??

Good plan here. On a more basic level I would add Ratchada (Soi 3-9) 1 bed, kitchen, bathroom, living room, target rent 7K PCM...

[mijan24]

Thaigene2 nice thought but afraid that is all it will be - Thais will leave a premise vacant rather than discount and in the meantime you are living on the sidewalk enjoying the elements.

The adage of supply and demand does not seem to any niche in the Thai landlords thinking " if there is no tenant today "mai pen rai" one will come along soon enough - in the meantime the property sits majestically vacant.

[cclub75]

I don't know if your operation could be successfull....

However, I confirm your observations : Noble Lite and other low rise on Phayonyotin :

-100 % sold

-not occupied

I even visited -this month- 2 units in Noble Lite (to rent) that were not completed... The building was completed last november.

And actually, a few units are for rent. The other rooms are not occupied by their owners...

The scheme is : sale. I should rather say re-sale.

It's a pure speculative market, orientated on sale. Not rent. Renting is more work, less return, and... a smaller market.

It's easy to understand : I don't know ANY thais who would rent for themselves an appartement at 15 or 20 000 THB per month ! They would of course... buy. With loans.

So, the rent market in those new fancy buildings is mainly foreigners only.

Regarding the rent, it's possible to get discount. Or "goodies", like a free UBC package.

You'll notice that : if the rent didn't go down on previous years... They didn't go up neither ! Considering inflation, we can say that rents in real terms are indeed decreasing.

Well now....how sad all those Thais (and some farangs) bought places to 'rent to the farangs'. Nobody nibbling?

Trouble is there is a growing glut of new condos to rent - from the Noble Lite place in Aree to the all those low-rise places in Suk and Srinakarin. 100% sold-out - 20% occupied??? Hmmm..

Renters are spoiled for choice (except those who don't know north from south and rely on the BKK Post for possible locations - and stupid rents).

Now is the time to grind folks.

[samran]

Thaigene2 nice thought but afraid that is all it will be - Thais will leave a premise vacant rather than discount and in the meantime you are living on the sidewalk enjoying the elements.

The adage of supply and demand does not seem to any niche in the Thai landlords thinking " if there is no tenant today "mai pen rai" one will come along soon enough - in the meantime the property sits majestically vacant.

agree to a large extent. Most people who speculate usually can afford to let the place sit as they have usually purchased the place in cash, and out of the family fortune. Doesn't seem to make overall financial sense but, that is what they do.

I went to a place once, which was nice, vacant for a year, and the owner refused to budge fro 50K. This was even though I had a similar place (actually better) lined up for 10K less.

There are sensible land lords out there though, who even though they don't have to, charge reasonable rents. You'll end up paying the prices you suggest anyway.

[Lorin]

Thaigene2 nice thought but afraid that is all it will be - Thais will leave a premise vacant rather than discount and in the meantime you are living on the sidewalk enjoying the elements.

The adage of supply and demand does not seem to any niche in the Thai landlords thinking " if there is no tenant today "mai pen rai" one will come along soon enough - in the meantime the property sits majestically vacant.

agree to a large extent. Most people who speculate usually can afford to let the place sit as they have usually purchased the place in cash, and out of the family fortune. Doesn't seem to make overall financial sense but, that is what they do.

I went to a place once, which was nice, vacant for a year, and the owner refused to budge fro 50K. This was even though I had a similar place (actually better) lined up for 10K less.

There are sensible land lords out there though, who even though they don't have to, charge reasonable rents. You'll end up paying the prices you suggest anyway.

It all about our luck, I paid 17K for 45 sqm before, and I pay 20K for 90sqm now, both places are lower Sukhumvit sois and very nice decorated. So I consider myself lucky to get the 20k deal on 2 bedrooms, but its not happens much in BKK. Friend of mine paying 25K for 2 bedrooms, 112 sqm in very expensive soi at Ratchadamri, that I consider super deal !!! Take your time and you will find your sweet home...:-)

[samran]

Thaigene2 nice thought but afraid that is all it will be - Thais will leave a premise vacant rather than discount and in the meantime you are living on the sidewalk enjoying the elements.

The adage of supply and demand does not seem to any niche in the Thai landlords thinking " if there is no tenant today "mai pen rai" one will come along soon enough - in the meantime the property sits majestically vacant.

agree to a large extent. Most people who speculate usually can afford to let the place sit as they have usually purchased the place in cash, and out of the family fortune. Doesn't seem to make overall financial sense but, that is what they do.

I went to a place once, which was nice, vacant for a year, and the owner refused to budge fro 50K. This was even though I had a similar place (actually better) lined up for 10K less.

There are sensible land lords out there though, who even though they don't have to, charge reasonable rents. You'll end up paying the prices you suggest anyway.

It all about our luck, I paid 17K for 45 sqm before, and I pay 20K for 90sqm now, both places are lower Sukhumvit sois and very nice decorated. So I consider myself lucky to get the 20k deal on 2 bedrooms, but its not happens much in BKK. Friend of mine paying 25K for 2 bedrooms, 112 sqm in very expensive soi at Ratchadamri, that I consider super deal !!! Take your time and you will find your sweet home...:-)

We've got 120 sqm for 30K. 3BR. 3 Bath rooms, gas stove, proper kitchen. Well designed and space used as efficiently as possible. My wife and I have made the concious decision that we aren't gonna get sucked into the expat prices that people pay even though we could afford it (plus, we have a mortgage back in OZ). Fortunatetly, we had/have a very good agent who understands this, and did a great job for us. Others I know look around for two weeks, get fed up and end up paying 60K for a new built 100sqm.

I used to get 80sqm for 15K a couple of years ago in Ari when i was single.

I reckon it is partly good fortune, but there are enough people doing what I'm doing for me to be convinced that you simply don't have to put up with expat prices to get excellent quality.

[GuestHouse]

Let's Drive Down Rents!, WE HAVE THE UPPER HAND!

Falls of chair laughing.

You only think you have the upper hand.... Let me tell you two stories.

Some years ago I was thinking of renting an appartment overlooking the sea. I found a nice unit in the same block and floor as a friend from work, the asking price Bht32K a month.

I offered Bht 28K a month and explained I expected to be around for at least two years,. It was the hight of the ecconomic crisis, properties where not moving, so a chance for the landlord to get a tenant, the chance for me to get a decent sea view; it was going to be a reasonable deal for us both.

The answer came back No, Bht32K per month or no deal.

No deal was my asnwer.

Now I regularly visited my friend who was only a matter of doors away from this appartment. He confirmed that it was over two years before the landlord found a tenant. No doubt he thought the wait was worth it.

My second story is a wife of a friend bought a house in a development that had no, or should I say, very few residents or tenants (It was a ghost development - a money pit).

She was paying a mortgage on the house of around Bht12K a month.

Her husband suggested she sell the place as she had an offer. She refused because the offer was 100K less than she paid.

She also had a few offers to rent the place, but all less than the Bht25K a month she had been told was the going rate when she bought the place.

So it sat empty for 8 years, until eventually she sold it for 250K above the price she had paid - And she was then delighted, rubbing it in her husband's face that she had made a profit where he had said she was throwing good money after bad.

(I should add, she's a purchasing manager and normally deals with contracts of large sums of money! LOL)

Both the first landlord and this second property magnate, will be telling themselves how they made money out of these deals.

Go figure.

[samran]

good point guesthouse.

Prices here tend to reflect what the land lord/owner wants, not the actual market price.

[Heng]

In my experience, and as far as I can see on the part of friends, family, etc.... sometimes landlord's budge, sometimes we don't. For myself, I'm much more likely to "give away" a few month's rent during negotiations rather than actually lower the rent, especially if the property isn't yet developed or furnished. Like any product or service, one wants to wait for the right match between service/product provider and consumer.

And as Samran mentioned, for 100% equity, cash purchased properties, there's not much in terms of downward pressure to negotiate. I know I'd rather find that "right" tenant than sign on the 1st or 2nd person who comes through the door and starts trying to negotiate the rent right off the bat. I'm not in a hurry... what I am going to do with the "extra" cash flow? Hire more servants? Retire to Thailand? That said, there are plenty of landlords out there who are financed or mortgaged up to their eyeballs who are just itchin' to rent out or sell out, so I'm not sure what the sour grapes is about. Just move on to the next potential property on your list, you might find just what you're looking for.

[thaigene2]

In my experience, and as far as I can see on the part of friends, family, etc.... sometimes landlord's budge, sometimes we don't. For myself, I'm much more likely to "give away" a few month's rent during negotiations rather than actually lower the rent, especially if the property isn't yet developed or furnished. Like any product or service, one wants to wait for the right match between service/product provider and consumer.

And as Samran mentioned, for 100% equity, cash purchased properties, there's not much in terms of downward pressure to negotiate. I know I'd rather find that "right" tenant than sign on the 1st or 2nd person who comes through the door and starts trying to negotiate the rent right off the bat. I'm not in a hurry... what I am going to do with the "extra" cash flow? Hire more servants? Retire to Thailand? That said, there are plenty of landlords out there who are financed or mortgaged up to their eyeballs who are just itchin' to rent out or sell out, so I'm not sure what the sour grapes is about. Just move on to the next potential property on your list, you might find just what you're looking for.

I agree with you Heng. As a previous landlord I took the same positions and would do so today - like you. As for the other posts - I think many confirm a new phenomenon - you WILL be able to negotiate more since many of these new condos have been purchased using bank loans - so forget the old chinese-money-in-matress thing - these landlords NEED to get cash flow - unless rich uncle Heng (or whomever) is going to cover the monthly payments while the place sits empty - or put on that silk shirt and go back to the bank as the guarantor to pay up the full forecolsure!