Quick Thai language translation question

[Vootieman]

My wife & I are making a return trip to Thailand next month. I had what (I hope) is a bright idea and I would welcome an answer from anyone who reads Thai.

 

Both of us come from families with a history of diabetes, so we avoid sugar. And both of us hate the taste of cilantro (pak chee). Don't laugh, happy marriages are built on such details! ????

 

Anyway, I thought a clever communications hack would be to make a wallet-sized printout in Thai to show when we order food so via Google Translate I made the attached instructions. But I have no way of knowing if it is accurate or comprehensible or may make someone laugh or get angry. ????

 

Can anyone help? If it's erroneous, I'd welcome a corrected version.

 

Khawp khun krap!

[jackdd]

Like this you tell them to add sugar and cilantro to your food ????

You have to use ไม่ใส่ instead of ใส่

Then it should be understood correctly.

Edited September 15, 2019 by jackdd

[Vootieman]

Thank you for this, but we want them to not add sugar or cilantro. If you can type out the proper sentence for us, that would be much appreciated. I can then copy and make my wallet card!

[tgeezer]

“happy marriages” how true! 

The only problem is that your note tells them to put sugar and pakchi in! 

กรุณาอย่าใส่นำ้ตาลหรือพักชีในอาหารของเรา ขอบคุณครับ 

See the word อย่า says ‘do not’. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by tgeezer

[katana]

I think you may find that when you actually come to do it, it will be hit and miss if your instructions are followed.
The waiting staff won't know the precise ingredients of every dish, there will be poor communication between waiting staff and the cooks in the kitchen and if they have already made up a batch of something, it will be too much trouble to make up a small one-off portion again for you.

[Vootieman]

"I think you may find that when you actually come to do it, it will be hit and miss if your instructions are followed."

 

Thanks for your help -- and no doubt! The good news is we are not fussy.

 

Maybe a better alternative to my "bright idea" ???? is to do what we usually do: just say "mai sai pak chee."

 

For "no sugar," will "mai sai wan" do the trick?

[Vootieman]

jackdd, re: my reply to you, I misinterpreted your message, but now I get it. (English is my first language and I'm still learning how to speak it.) ???? 

[katana]

MAI SAI NAM DTAN ไม่ใส่น้ำตาล for 'no sugar'. You can add the particles NA KRAP for politeness if you're male or NA KA for females.

But you'd probably be better off writing down your instructions in Thai as per your initial post for clarity.
PS I was once in a restaurant in Thailand where there was a bit of a commotion going on at the next table.
One of the two farang girls sitting there had called over the staff and was complaining in an irate and flustered manner that the food she'd ordered had meat in it.
She was a vegetarian and had carefully explained to the waiter that she didn't want any meat in the stir fired dish when she ordered - she wanted a vegetarian version of it.
However, the message had got lost somewhere along the way and she ended up with a mouthful of chicken before she realised what was going on and spat it back out onto the plate.
For a vegetarian, I guess that's a bit of a no no.

Edited September 16, 2019 by katana

[tgeezer]

I asked a Thai on Line app. the exchange went like this: 

Me. Question : กรุณา ย่าใส้นำ้ตาลหรือผักชีในอาหารของเราครับ 

Is that good enough for a wallet card for a farang to show the waiter? 

He. Better say ไม่หวาน instead of นำ้ตาล if you want to mention food. 

Me. อย่าใส้หวาน?? 

He. If you say อย่าใส้นำ้ตาล it always refers to coffee. 

Me. อย่าทำหวาน

He. บอกไม่หวาน

ส้มตำหนึ่งจานไม่หวาน for example. 

Me. OK so what would a note to staff say to include no sugar or pakchoi? 

He. ขอไม่หวานและไม่ใส้ผักชีครับ 

Me. if they have sugar diabetes.  (Trying to imply that it might be serious if misunderstood) 

He.  a funny meme with OKays scattered round it. 

Me. ใส้นำตาลหรือผัชีเป็นส่วนผสม ?? 

He. No need to say. 

Ends. 

Frustrating but I conclude two things, 1. ไม่ means อย่า. Maybe this is a real life example of some words being considered formal! 

I notice I have used ไม่ไส้ somewhere, consider it a lapse! 

2. That a note is not a good idea. 

6 hours ago, katana said:

I think you may find that when you actually come to do it, it will be hit and miss if your instructions are followed.
The waiting staff won't know the precise ingredients of every dish, there will be poor communication between waiting staff and the cooks in the kitchen and if they have already made up a batch of something, it will be too much trouble to make up a small one-off portion again for you.

I think that my contact thinks as you do Katana. 

3 hours ago, Vootieman said:

 

 

Thanks for your help -- and no doubt! The good news is we are not fussy.

 

Maybe a better alternative to my "bright idea" ???? is to do what we usually do: just say "mai sai pak chee."

 

For "no sugar," will "mai sai wan" do the trick?

You are probably right but why not try a note since you don’t have diabetes it won’t matter and will probably give you a laugh. 

[Vootieman]

Thanks all around. This has been an educational excursion plus I got some smiles along the way. (Chicken "horror story" for the win!)

 

We will try both the verbal & visual methods and, if any fun stories result, I shall post here without fail. Cheers to all and thanks again!

 

 

[katana]

Hi tgeezer,
If your native speaker says use MAI WAHN ไม่หวาน instead of MAI SAI ไม่ใส่, best disregard what I said and go with that!

Edited September 16, 2019 by katana

[jackdd]

12 hours ago, tgeezer said:

I asked a Thai on Line app. the exchange went like this:

Your Thai person is wrong.

If you say ไม่หวาน you can not be sure what you get, in most cases you will just get it with reduced sugar, but there will still be sugar added.

To be clear about this you have to say ไม่ไส้นำ้ตาล, maybe even emphasize it by adding เลย to it to make it 100% clear.

You can use อย่า instead of ไม่, but imho อย่า gives the impression that you boss around, i would consider ไม่ to be more polite.

[tgeezer]

Disagreement is inevitable but to suggest that my interlocutor’s speech is wrong is going a little far.

I agree with you jackdd which is the reason that I pressed the point by introducing diabetes but We are not Thai.  One of his hobbies is cooking so he is familiar with the mechanics of cooking which leads me to conclude that หวาน can not be treated in the same way as เผ็ด so that ไม่หวาน means that there is no sugar at all. 

ขอไม่หวาน says requesting not sweet and (requesting) not to put in... 

13 hours ago, Vootieman said:

 

 

 

Sorry, I was trying to quote katana and jackdd. 

กรุณา is probably the wrong word to use in a servant customer relationship, I don’t share your opinion on อย่า because I believe in being specific if able. 

กรุณาหากมีภาวะฉุกเฉินช่วยติดต่อ... or words to that effect is where I think กรุณา belongs. 

I know of many words but not necessarily how to use them so how about this? เรื่องเกี่ยวกับการทำอาหาร เรียนพ่อครัวว่าอย่าทำให้หวานหรือใส้...

This is the story concerning cooking- inform the chef not to make sweet or use... 

I will be consulting again but do express your opinions, but on comprehension rather than on whether any Thai would say such things. 

What can possibly go wrong? 

Edit: เรียน used in this way is something I learned aclong time ago so probably archaic, บอก is better. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by tgeezer

[tgeezer]

As I performed my ablutions I thought if additions but before I could post a Face call came in and this is what I have gleaned from the conversation.  

Firstly I softened him up by asking him to consider a non English speaker formulating a sentence and the effort required to understand him. 

 

I said เรื่องเกี่ยวกับการทำอาหารให้ผม ช่วยบอกพ่อครัวว่าไม่หวานและ... which he accepted and then as we conversed some points were made. 

รบกวนหน่อย บอก... , อาหารสำหรับผม คำแน่นำคนทำอาหาร this, because the sex of the cook is not known.  เรียน- to inform, he said was very formal. 

Five minutes after being told something people usually can not quote word for word, I am no different, I offer this up for discussion. 

หวาน เปรี้ยว เผ็ด are all treated in the same way ไม่เผ็ด means no พริก at all, in the same way as ไม่หวาน means no นำ้ตาล at all. Both refer to taste not ingredients the derived meaning of ไม่หวาน is that คนทีาทำอาหารไม่ได้ใสนำ้ตาล To make it imperative add เลย. 

ไม่ใส้นำ้ตาร is understandable but our point of view, not a Thai’s apparently. 

 

I must say that I find the use if Thai interesting and have tried to introduce it before with no response, so if anyone is brave enough to make mistakes, please do so. 

Edit. I have a feeling that when indicating degrees of things, Thai is more positive, เผ็ดนิดหน่อย is less than เผ็ดมาก rather than  ไม่เผ็ดมาก. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by tgeezer

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Disagreement is inevitable but to suggest that my interlocutor’s speech is wrong is going a little far.

I agree with you jackdd which is the reason that I pressed the point by introducing diabetes but We are not Thai.  One of his hobbies is cooking so he is familiar with the mechanics of cooking which leads me to conclude that หวาน can not be treated in the same way as เผ็ด so that ไม่หวาน means that there is no sugar at all. 

Just give it a try. Order some food where they traditionally put sugar inside, for example ผัดไทย or ส้มตำไทย and tell them ไม่หวาน.

In most cases they will either put less sugar than normally inside, or they will ask you to clarify how sweet you want it. The cases where they just put no sogar inside will be rare.

 

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

ไม่เผ็ด means no พริก at all

That's what it means for a western person.

When i had my mom visit me, who doesn't eat spicy at all, i experienced that for most Thais ไม่เผ็ด means to add just one chilli instead of 5.

Actually that's a good example, because indeed ไม่เผ็ด and ไม่หวาน are indeed treated the same by Thais. It doesn't mean "no sugar" or "no chilli" to them, but instead it means less sweet / spicy than usually.

If you want to be sure that they don't put any chillis inside you have to say ไม่ไส้พริก(เลย)

[GroveHillWanderer]

Whenever my wife, who is Thai and doesn't like sweet food, orders noodle soup

 

2 hours ago, tgeezer said:

I offer this up for discussion. 

หวาน เปรี้ยว เผ็ด are all treated in the same way ไม่เผ็ด means no พริก at all, in the same way as ไม่หวาน means no นำ้ตาล at all.

I don't find this to be so, and I agree with jackdd that ไม่เผ็ด does not mean no พริก at all, it just means fewer พริก. In the same vein, ไม่หวาน does not mean no นำ้ตาล at all, just less.

 

Whenever my wife, who is Thai and doesn't like sweet food, is ordering dishes that she finds are usually too sweet, she almost always says, ไม่ใส่น้ำตาล or sometimes (less frequently) อย่าใส่น้ำตาล

[tgeezer]

Jolly interesting. Your disagreement is not with me. Have either of you sought your wive’s opinion on my posts?  

 

 

[pookondee]

On 9/16/2019 at 12:09 PM, tgeezer said:

“happy marriages” how true! 

The only problem is that your note tells them to put sugar and pakchi in! 

กรุณาอย่าใส่นำ้ตาลหรือพักชีในอาหารของเรา ขอบคุณครับ 

See the word อย่า says ‘do not’. 

You are technically spot-on of course.

But just IMO though,

A beginner making a statement with:

 

อย่า (dont,not want)

 

could actually sound a lot like อยาก

 

อยาก = to crave, and also used as "want to eat"

 

just one of those many Thai words where the opposites sounds familiar to the untrained ear.

 

For me at first, i got in the habit of avoiding those words and using others,

that offer less risk of you saying it wrong or being misunderstood.

 

But of course knowing:

 อยาก and อย่า

are esential to avoid a lot of confusion when you hear Thais speaking them.

 

and then there is

 ยาก

which is also gonna be miss-herd by most beginners but thats another story.555

 

if i dont want to bother, i just use

mai-oaw,

or mai-sai,

(as you mentioned in your other post.)

 

As the learner starts reading more Thai and seeing the difference,

seeing the ก (gor-gai)

sound on the end of อยาก will become obvious how its spoken.

 

 

But i notice a lot of guys here particulary tend to resist learning reading Thai. 

 

So if anything, this is an example why its really essential to read,

Unless you are going to memorise a whole lot of words and sounds,

might be best to choose other words for stuff like:

 

ยาก, อย่า, อยาก

 

 

 

[kokesaat]

If I was in the US and I didn't want sugar in my food, I'd tell the staff, "please, no sugar".  In Thailand, I'd say "ไม่ไส้นำ้ตาล"

This being Thailand, you could add for emphasis, "เรากินน้ำตาลไม่ได้ครับ ขอไม่ใส่น้ำตาลครับ"

 

You should be aware that many seasonings have considerable amounts of sugar added.....our high end fish sauce has 5% and our high end soy sauce also 5%.  

[Wongkitlo]

I do it all the time. I used to say "mai chorp nahm dtan" but they just answered "Mai chorp wahn" so now I say that.. It has changed my appreciation of Thai food because in the past everything just tasted like sugar.If you have trouble download Google translate to your phone and the girl on the app will say it for you.

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[tgeezer]

14 hours ago, Wongkitlo said:

I do it all the time. I used to say "mai chorp nahm dtan" but they just answered "Mai chorp wahn" so now I say that.. .

Sent from my SM-J730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

This supports what I was told, Thais tend to focus on the result rather than the process. By changing ไม่ชอบนำตาล to ไม่ชอบหวาน the waiters probably knew what you meant and were trying to help improve your Thai. 

When in Thailand do as you would in The US as kokosaat says,  is having an effect on the language as it is in all aspects of life, good and bad. 

 

[tgeezer]

17 hours ago, kokesaat said:

If I was in the US and I didn't want sugar in my food, I'd tell the staff, "please, no sugar".  In Thailand, I'd say "ไม่ไส้นำ้ตาล"

This being Thailand, you could add for emphasis, "เรากินน้ำตาลไม่ได้ครับ ขอไม่ใส่น้ำตาลครับ"

 

You should be aware that many seasonings have considerable amounts of sugar added.....our high end fish sauce has 5% and our high end soy sauce also 5%.  

Is กินนำ้ตาลไม่ได้ correct? It means physically unable to eat. 

I have often pondered ไม่ได้ when it appears in that way that we are supposed to read it as past tense. I am not in the habit of eating sugar, perhaps. 

[kokesaat]

Consider the customer who is allergic to peanuts.  He orders a plate of pad thai.  If I wanted to be sure the cook didn't put crushed peanuts on my plate, I'd say, กินถัวไม่ได้ครับ  

 

I just read of a customer in the US who supposedly told the waitress he was allergic to milk.  The food he ordered was soaked in buttermilk before being cooked.  He died.  On that off-topic subject, I've been here 23 years and have yet to encounter anyone allergic to anything.........don't like - yes, allergic - no

[Wongkitlo]

This supports what I was told, Thais tend to focus on the result rather than the process. By changing ไม่ชอบนำตาล to ไม่ชอบหวาน the waiters probably knew what you meant and were trying to help improve your Thai. 
When in Thailand do as you would in The US as kokosaat says,  is having an effect on the language as it is in all aspects of life, good and bad. 
 

I go to the same shops all the time and now when I walk in I say "Khao pat gaii" and she says "Mai mee Wahn ". I don't think she is helping my Thai. I thought colloquially they say "wahn". Same as they say "yip" instead of "yee sip" .I am by no way proficient in Thai but I can read your Thai script. I don't think the OP can if he was using Google translate. I thought it would be easier for him if he said "Mai chorp wahn".

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