What visas are left for those under 50?

[Colabamumbai]

18 hours ago, cerox said:

If you do not have a long-term gf that you want to marry, are not 50 or older, do not work here, and are not willing to do play this "every year a new passport and hope my ED school is not on the blacklist" game, there are no other options than Elite or investment visa.

 

I am in your shoes too, I will start exploring the Philippines in three weeks. Vietnam is nice, the taxation is an issue, even if it is not enforced now, it might be in the future. Also, in Vietnam there is only that 1y "business" visa - since we do not do business there, it is the same corrupt scam as ED visas always were in Thailand. I would consider Vietnam as a nice travel adventure, but do not buy anything there - one day they might seize the business visa and you have to leave.

 

Philippines offers SRRV visa for condo investment or alternatively 20k USD in a bank at age 35. Look at SRRV smile / classic.

Going to check out Philippines in January after 10 years here, no problem with visa, but money is worthless. 

[toolpush]

20 hours ago, orbital777 said:

Honestly for me and most of my friends here, all under 50, unmarried, and running online businesses, the best "visa" now is simply a different country.

 

Only the Elite Visa makes any sense for me. I was denied on the basis of an accidental 2 day overstay lol. 

 

Kind of crazy when I spend far more money here than the average retiree as well as speak and read the language fluently.

 

194 other countries to choose from though! I will be leaving next month ????

Are you serious? They denied your Elite Visa application because you once had a 2 day overstay?

[emptypockets]

You want Thailand a lot more than Thailand wants or indeed needs you. 

Try influencing your home country's immigration policies and see how you go.  Thailand has some of the easiest visas on the world for the demographic they wish to attract. 

Not so easy for the people they don't want to attract. 

[ThomasThBKK]

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I don't know about European countries' rules but for the USA you first pay tax in your country of residnce (estmate will do) and then deduct those taxes from you US obligation. US citizens mus pay tax for world wide incomes irrespective of country of residence. That's one of the reason many wealthy Americans give up their passport and acquie foreign passports. Of course, it is out of the reach for most so called digital nomads desperately trying to live in Thailand on unhygenic street foods, somtam and 40-baht pork soup. and 6K one room apartment and posting videos of cheap living in YouTube hoping to strike it big. 

 

The USA is the ONLY country in the world doing this highway robbery. Eritrea got rid of citizenship based worldwide taxation years ago.

No one else ever has to deal with their home countries tax authority if he doesn't earn money there and moved somewhere else.

 

[Metapod]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

The USA is the ONLY country in the world doing this highway robbery. Eritrea got rid of citizenship based worldwide taxation years ago.

No one else ever has to deal with their home countries tax authority if he doesn't earn money there and moved somewhere else.

 

That's not technically true. Most countries will still try to tax you unless you meet very stringent requirements. For example, Australia will still tax you unless you have a permanent move somewhere else with ALOT of stipulations. Things like you must be at the same address for more than 2 years etc. If you left Australia and never returned but traveled around every few months (or even bounced from condos from 1 year to the next year in the same city), Aus will still consider you a tax resident. Getting rid of tax residency status is a lot harder and more complicated than most people realize

[Thaidream]

7 hours ago, Hackney35 said:

You also price out the begpackers and cheap Charlies that no one wants here.

Makes more sense economically than giving out LT visas to old people on low pensions and in potentially poor health.

I was with you until this last sentence- a bigoted rant about the elderly. Hell- we lived a long life and now you reccomend we be disriminated against because we managed to survive wars; malaria; measles; depressions; reccessions and every other  thing  . What have you and your ilk contributed to any society.

 

I got news for you- My 4 pensions add up to a good chunk. I am quite healthy and how so you know that someone aged 30 isn't going to develop a catastrphic disease.

 

I and others like me earned our way into Thailand by l following the rules; having the income or the cash or both- have fully paid houses and cars.

 

You and your ilk need to look in the mirror and ask the question- why have you become so selfish....

Edited September 28, 2019 by Thaidream

[ThomasThBKK]

8 minutes ago, Metapod said:

That's not technically true. Most countries will still try to tax you unless you meet very stringent requirements. For example, Australia will still tax you unless you have a permanent move somewhere else with ALOT of stipulations. Things like you must be at the same address for more than 2 years etc. If you left Australia and never returned but traveled around every few months (or even bounced from condos from 1 year to the next year in the same city), Aus will still consider you a tax resident. Getting rid of tax residency status is a lot harder and more complicated than most people realize

 

This is called residency for tax purposes and yes sure you have to give up your stuff in Australia.

If you leave Australia permanently and rent/buy a place offshore, don't have active income in Aus, you are out of it, that's why everyone residing in thailand more than 180 days should get a tax id, so he can proof he's a thai tax resident. 

 

 

It's not exactly rocket science, the Aus gov described it themselves: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/international-tax-for-individuals/work-out-your-tax-residency/

And you don't need to be at the same address for more than 2 years.

 

You need to cut your connection with your homecountry, i got rid of my real estate etc, if i didn't i would still be partially german tax resident.

But seems Aus is relaxed there, see example of Brownyn: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/In-detail/Residency/Examples-of-residents-and-foreign-residents/

The Brownyn example is pretty much what a retiree or foreign worker here would do, a full time thai expat imo.

As long as you rent out your RE you should be fine, and don't stay there too long per year.

 

 

Especially for young people it's really not hard to get rid of this, they usually don't own any real estate anyway. 

 

Freedom isn't free i guess, it's best to own assets in countries you aren't resident of ????

But you have options, most of us do, US people don't have any option except giving up their passport and being cut off from their families, only an option for wealthy individuals that can buy a passport somewhere else.

[Metapod]

10 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

This is called residency for tax purposes and yes sure you have to give up your stuff in Australia.

If you leave Australia permanently and rent/buy a place offshore, don't have active income in Aus, you are out of it, that's why everyone residing in thailand more than 180 days should get a tax id, so he can proof he's a thai tax resident. 

 

 

It's not exactly rocket science, the Aus gov described it themselves: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/international-tax-for-individuals/work-out-your-tax-residency/

And you don't need to be at the same address for more than 2 years.

 

You need to cut your connection with your homecountry, i got rid of my real estate etc, if i didn't i would still be partially german tax resident.

But seems Aus is relaxed there, see example of Brownyn: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/In-detail/Residency/Examples-of-residents-and-foreign-residents/

The Brownyn example is pretty much what a retiree or foreign worker here would do, a full time thai expat imo.

As long as you rent out your RE you should be fine, and don't stay there too long per year.

 

 

Especially for young people it's really not hard to get rid of this, they usually don't own any real estate anyway. 

 

Freedom isn't free i guess, it's best to own assets in countries you aren't resident of ????

But you have options, most of us do, US people don't have any option except giving up their passport and being cut off from their families, only an option for wealthy individuals that can buy a passport somewhere else.

Pretty much everything you said is wrong. You clearly have no understanding on how tax residency works for Australians.

[Beggar]

The tax laws are very country specific and you really should understand the laws in your home country and in the foreign country where you might reside. I moved a lot in my life and I had to do this many times. But every mistake or wrong assumption could create bigger problems. So do your homework very carefully. At least if you have some bigger income sources and perhaps even in different countries. 

[SteveK]

I'm under 50, and if I wasn't married to a nice Thai lady, I could potentially buy an Elite visa but would not want to spend so much of my savings on something that could be revoked whenever immigration decides to. I'd be looking at Vietnam or maybe Philippines.

[ThomasThBKK]

3 minutes ago, Metapod said:

Pretty much everything you said is wrong. You clearly have no understanding on how tax residency works for Australians.

 

That's what your government website says, but maybe they don't know anything and should ask you?

 

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/In-detail/Residency/Examples-of-residents-and-foreign-residents/

 

Quote

Bronwyn – an extended job overseas

Facts

Bronwyn, an Australian resident, has received a job offer to work overseas for three years, with the option to extend for another three years.

Bronwyn, her husband and three children decide to make the move.

They retain their property in Australia, as they intend to return one day.

The house will be rented out during their absence.

Bronwyn is uncertain whether she will extend the option to stay after three years, and will decide later, depending on how the family like the life there.

While overseas, they will rent a house with an accommodation allowance provided under her contract.

Outcome – why is Bronwyn considered a foreign resident?

The following table outlines the reasons why the four residency tests were not satisfied.

Test	This test is not satisfied because...
Residency – the resides test	the length of Bronwyn's physical absence from Australia and the surrounding circumstances (such as establishing a home overseas with her family and renting out her family home in Australia) are not consistent with residing in Australia, even though she has retained the family home in Australia.
Residency – the domicile test	her permanent place of abode is outside Australia due to     the length of time she has committed to spending overseas establishment of a home overseas, and her family accompanying her the fact that she will not be selling the home in Australia, although relevant, is not persuasive enough to overcome the finding on the basis of the other factors it is arguable that she has abandoned her home in Australia for the duration of her stay, by renting it out.
Residency – the 183 day test	this does not apply from the date of her departure for overseas.
Residency – the superannuation test	this does not apply.

 

 

So let us know whats wrong hu? 

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, cerox said:

Thomas,

you are right with your post about Vietnam and thanks for opening my eyes. It seems so many people are "moving" to Vietnam now, for now I have never seen or heard of someone that was affected by their tax laws on worldwide income. But you are right, it could change overnight, esp. with a "business" visa. This would be a much more uncomfortable situation than in Thailand where we "only" get kicked out, having enough time on visa-exempt to pack our stuff etc.

Vietnam seems still good for travels less than 6 months, so we are not a tax resident. It is a nice country, and accommodation and transport is really cheap in my view.

 

After your post I looked at some information about the tax laws - so you cannot even rent a condo for more than 6 months a year. Otherwise you would be a tax resident on worldwide income too, similar to many countries in Europe - as soon as you have a key and an apartment which you could use anytime you wanted.

"This would be a much more uncomfortable situation than in Thailand where we "only" get kicked out, having enough time on visa-exempt to pack our stuff etc"

Who are "we" in your post? I have never heard about people on a Visa exempt getting kicked out from Thailand. 

You seem to be one those who think a "tourist" should be able to stay as long as you want. Try to find one country in the western world where that is allowed. 

[DogNo1]

Call me a liberal but I would like to see a visa type that would allow people younger than fifty with sufficient foreign-earned income to stay in Thailand long term.  Doesn't apply to me but I have friends who are affected.  I understand that the Elite is an option but too expensive and impractical for people who don't want to stay for five years.

[cerox]

Those people who do not qualify for a visa anymore / did not get one.

They can come back on visa-exempt and pack their stuff. Simple as that.

No need to make 100 assumptions about tourists and how long they stay in any country.

 

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Metapod said:

That's not technically true. Most countries will still try to tax you unless you meet very stringent requirements. For example, Australia will still tax you unless you have a permanent move somewhere else with ALOT of stipulations. Things like you must be at the same address for more than 2 years etc. If you left Australia and never returned but traveled around every few months (or even bounced from condos from 1 year to the next year in the same city), Aus will still consider you a tax resident. Getting rid of tax residency status is a lot harder and more complicated than most people realize

Don't compare Australia with other western countries. It's not that hard to officially migrate to Thailand from for example a country within the EU. Of course there are stipulations. You must normally "cut the ties" to your home country,get rid of the house/apartment (it's normally not allowed to put it up for rent) and have no income what so ever except pension. Countries also have bilateral tax agreements to avoid double taxation. In the UK you're not allowed to keep your bank account when officially migrating, in other countries,no problem what so ever. Migrating is doable,but you have to know how to do it,of course. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Max69xl

[SohlolyMD]

On 9/26/2019 at 11:31 PM, Hal65 said:

child visa

What type of documents that I need to get such a visa? And how to apply for it? ????????

[Peter Denis]

17 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

Call me a liberal but I would like to see a visa type that would allow people younger than fifty with sufficient foreign-earned income to stay in Thailand long term.  Doesn't apply to me but I have friends who are affected.  I understand that the Elite is an option but too expensive and impractical for people who don't want to stay for five years.

Spot on!  The TV Forum is full of requests for info on Visa-options/border-runs from people under 50 who have to go through all kinds of hoops to be able to stay longer term in Thailand.  Many of these LT-stay seekers have legitimite reasons for wanting to stay longer term but don't fit the designated Visa category. The Elite Visa is of course possible, but might be too big an investment and 5 years a long period.  Introducing a more flexible Junior Elite Visa would be a good alternative to cater for the under 50 Thailand lovers.

[HampiK]

If you really have the money and want stay longer you could go the Investment Visa route!

Invest 10 million baht in Thailand (a new condo and/or money in a government fund) and you can renew your visa every year! And you don't have to pay for your rent anymore as you own the condo. But of course it's more money you have to pay in advanced, but if you really are wealthy (Actually 300K US$ isn't that wealthy at all) this wouldn't be so big deal!

 

 

[ubonjoe]

42 minutes ago, SohlolyMD said:

What type of documents that I need to get such a visa? And how to apply for it? ????????

You would need to be the parent of a Thai child would be the primary requirement.

[keysersoze276]

On 9/27/2019 at 4:39 AM, thaitero said:

Those who do remote work may want to consider

https://iglu.net/ or similar umbrella company to get legal status.

I clicked this out of curiosity.  Every job listed is for Thai Nationals only.

[wolf81]

On 9/27/2019 at 12:28 PM, HeyHeyHey said:

Correct, plenty of countries with open arms to people like that

 

I'm not paying 500,000 fee for permission to spend more money (actually more than I would spend back home)

Staying in Thailand saves me at least 35.000 EUR in taxes each year, so in that regard the ~15.000 EUR for a 5-6 year stay is a pittance. 35.000+ EUR a year vs. 3.000 EUR a year. Not a difficult choice for me.

[HeyHeyHey]

6 minutes ago, wolf81 said:

Staying in Thailand saves me at least 35.000 EUR in taxes each year, so in that regard the ~15.000 EUR for a 5-6 year stay is a pittance. 35.000+ EUR a year vs. 3.000 EUR a year. Not a difficult choice for me.

You can stay in Philippines, Georgia, Malaysia and several other countries without paying anything

[Hackney35]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I was with you until this last sentence- a bigoted rant about the elderly. Hell- we lived a long life and now you reccomend we be disriminated against because we managed to survive wars; malaria; measles; depressions; reccessions and every other  thing  . What have you and your ilk contributed to any society.

 

I got news for you- My 4 pensions add up to a good chunk. I am quite healthy and how so you know that someone aged 30 isn't going to develop a catastrphic disease.

 

I and others like me earned our way into Thailand by l following the rules; having the income or the cash or both- have fully paid houses and cars.

 

You and your ilk need to look in the mirror and ask the question- why have you become so selfish....

You’ve got me wrong, I have nothing against elderly people and more than happy for them to be lucky enough to make their low pensions go further in a cheaper country.

I’m simply talking in a purely economic non emotional way.

Many elderly people (not you clearly) scrape by in Thailand by just about making the low income requirement. 

These people add less economically than a younger person bringing in 100k plus a month who isn’t allowed to live in Thailand.

There was no malice to my point.

[Hackney35]

2 hours ago, HampiK said:

If you really have the money and want stay longer you could go the Investment Visa route!

Invest 10 million baht in Thailand (a new condo and/or money in a government fund) and you can renew your visa every year! And you don't have to pay for your rent anymore as you own the condo. But of course it's more money you have to pay in advanced, but if you really are wealthy (Actually 300K US$ isn't that wealthy at all) this wouldn't be so big deal!

 

 

Anyone who is rich enough to have 10m baht is probably not stupid enough to spend that much on a condo in BKK which will instantly depreciate by 30% on purchase... condos are very easy to buy and not so easy to sell!!!

[Hal65]

10 million baht is about $320,000. The Philippines investment SRRV is $50,000. I hear construction quality in both countries is non-ideal.

 

The Phils also has a deposit option for $20,000. And the money is still yours, unlike the $32,000 Thai Elite which is a payment in advance and may be revoked at any time.

 

Problem is Thailand remains a much more pleasant country to live in.

 

I guess it's the Elite visa or nothing for guys under 50 now.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Hal65

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Hackney35 said:

Anyone who is rich enough to have 10m baht is probably not stupid enough to spend that much on a condo in BKK which will instantly depreciate by 30% on purchase... condos are very easy to buy and not so easy to sell!!!

The 10 million baht can also be in a fixed term account and/or government bonds.

[Hackney35]

2 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

10 million baht is about $300,000. The Philippines investment SRRV is $50,000. I hear construction qualities in both countries is less than desirable.

 

The Phils also has a deposit option for $20,000. And the money is still yours, unlike the $32,000 Thai Elite which is a payment in advance and may be revoked at any time.

 

Problem is Thailand remains a much more pleasant country to live in.

 

I guess it's the Elite visa or nothing for guys under 50 now.

Fair point. BKK especially is a very pleasant city, good healthcare, nice restaurants and many intelligent beautiful girls to meet.

The neighbouring countries don’t quite have it all yet. 

The pending world economic downturn might change things a bit, let’s see what the shake out is in terms of visas in the region.

[Hackney35]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The 10 million baht can also be in a fixed term account and/or government bonds.

That’s more attractive to me I think, thanks.

[Hackney35]

1 minute ago, FredGallaher said:

At 100K/month a Elite Visa is clearly within reach. However you won't be able to legally work. Actually 100K/month isn't really that high especially those living in hotels and eating out. Retire people often own and have invested in their homes, have cars, etc. This significantly reduces their costs.

Agreed it’s not high at all. I struggle to survive on 100k + my measly teachers salary in BKK because life isn’t cheap here. 

Also agree that retired’s own assets but this doesn’t have an ongoing impact on GDP

Edited September 28, 2019 by Hackney35
Add detail

[Chazar]

13 hours ago, dcnx said:

Is there a cheap sex with young uneducated farmers wearing flip flops visa?

 

 

Thatll be the newly introduced "gullible  fool"  visa