Explainer: Looking for loopholes - How could Johnson avoid delaying Brexit?

[Basil B]

15 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Hard Brexiteers and Muppets.

Bring back "Spitting Images"

[stephenterry]

On 9/29/2019 at 8:19 PM, Loiner said:

So long as we Leave on 31st October, cleanly without being shackled to the EU and giving away our corner, I’d settle for any of the options.
I’d prefer either 4 or 5 and put the made-up-Remainer-trick-law the Benn Act to the test. So long as we are out and stay out they can moan about the legalities as long as they like.


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you can check out anytime but you can never leave...

[Rookiescot]

13 hours ago, evadgib said:

Of more interest is the revelation that our Generals are up in arms over the sellout of our armed forces to the EU from as early as 01 November lock, stock and barrel inc our nuclear deterrent.

MSM seem to have missed it but thankfully it's gaining traction elsewhere.

MSM have missed it because its not true.

The only place its gaining traction is among brexit fundamentalists.

[stephenterry]

On 9/29/2019 at 9:15 PM, JAG said:

No, the reason for continuously seeking extensions, (and I am sure that this next one won't be the last - unless there is an election during its time, which is unlikely as both the opposition and the Tory rebels will likely be losers if there is an election) is to create a climate that somehow, eventually, persuades the electorate to abandon the whole idea of leaving. In my opinion, the "genie is out of the bottle" and that will not work. However, given time, the remain campaign (which commands parliament if not the support of the electorate who put them there) will come up with a second referendum, the question(s) asked in it will be sufficiently ambiguous to allow the answers to be interpreted rather than give a simple decision.

An election soon is a cast iron certainty. There's no need to 'persuade' the people - it's up to the new government to act on whatever they consider to be best for Britain (hopefully) and not their own selfish reasons. Not that I have any faith in that happening.

 

Most likely a hung parliament and another continuous party politics roundabout that will see Britain as a reincarnation of the 'sick man of Europe'. 

[stephenterry]

21 hours ago, pedro01 said:

Probably better not to read conspiracy theories...

 

Sounds like total nonsense. 

Not according to the financial watchdog. There are billions being invested on a fall in sterling come the end of October. Mostly from hedge funds.

[stephenterry]

15 hours ago, wreckingcountry said:

People made their decision.


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Yeah, and I decided on Mexican yesterday for lunch, and today I've decided on a vindaloo from my Indian restaurant.  In other words, people change their decisions all the time, let alone three years ago.    

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

The Bill of Rights only applies to England and Wales. But this shows the difficulty of trying to harmonize something as complicated as Brexit across 3 (including NI Law) legal systems. 

Appreciated RR. My understanding is that the BoR was extended to inc Scotland in 1689 at their request in order to protect them from the Stuart Kings who were somewhat misbehaving at the time.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

MSM have missed it because its not true.

The only place its gaining traction is among brexit fundamentalists.

Thank god you turned up to put our minds at rest...

(The salient point starts @ 3 mins. the remainder is left for context)

[JAG]

2 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Yeah, and I decided on Mexican yesterday for lunch, and today I've decided on a vindaloo from my Indian restaurant.  In other words, people change their decisions all the time, let alone three years ago.    

Hmm, but, you decided on and ate Mexican yesterday for lunch. You didn't decide on Mexican, and were then told that you had to have a cheese sandwich instead because someone else thought that was what you should have - regardless of your decision!

[JAG]

3 hours ago, stephenterry said:

An election soon is a cast iron certainty. There's no need to 'persuade' the people - it's up to the new government to act on whatever they consider to be best for Britain (hopefully) and not their own selfish reasons. Not that I have any faith in that happening.

 

Most likely a hung parliament and another continuous party politics roundabout that will see Britain as a reincarnation of the 'sick man of Europe'. 

I confess that I don't share your cast iron certainty that there will be an election any time soon. Why? Because Parliament is now controlled by the opposition parties, along with the Tory rebels. The opposition, principally the Labour Party, who because of the numbers game produced by the Fixed Term Parliament Act have to agree before there can be an early election, aren't going to allow one before they can be reasonably confident of winning, or at least producing a result which will allow them to form a coalition. Their Tory rebel allies will not play ball, because their only hope of surviving is if they can engineer the removal of Boris Johnson from the leadership of the Tory Party. Since they were soundly beaten by him, in both the parliamentary party and membership elections for that post, it is unlikely that they will succeed in that, certainly in the near future. The selection of a replacement Speaker is also in the hands of this parliamentary alliance (if Bercow does resign) and I can't see them selecting a candidate who they cannot be certain will allow Bercows "off the cuff constitutional reforms" to stand, or even be continued. For these reasons, whilst i agree that an election is urgently needed, and is the proper way out of this mess, I am less than sanguine that it will be allowed to happen. I suspect we could be in for a long wait - maybe even until the due date under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act. Two and a half years?

 

The combination of the internal (and eternal) feud within the Tory Party, an opposition who despite the government disarray and losing their majority, find themselves unlikely to win an election, the provisions of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act and Mr Speaker Bercow's less than impartial activism have driven a convoy of coaches and horses through the British constitutional conventions under which these matters have hitherto been decided. I suspect we're in for a long wait. The idea that the people should have any say was abandoned long ago.

Edited October 1, 2019 by JAG

[stephenterry]

38 minutes ago, JAG said:

Hmm, but, you decided on and ate Mexican yesterday for lunch. You didn't decide on Mexican, and were then told that you had to have a cheese sandwich instead because someone else thought that was what you should have - regardless of your decision!

A faulty analogy, mate. Comparing apples with pears won't win you any points - from me. In actuality, I was offered a choice, and I made a decision to plump for the Mexican as all their propaganda plastered over all the red buses in town offered me the gourmet delight of the century.

 

That it turned out to be wrong, IMO, owing to false statements and sub-minimal offerings obtained from Subway, means that if I'm offered a similar choice, I'd decide to go to the Indian restaurant instead.

[stephenterry]

44 minutes ago, JAG said:

I confess that I don't share your cast iron certainty that there will be an election any time soon. Why? Because Parliament is now controlled by the opposition parties, along with the Tory rebels. The opposition, principally the Labour Party, who because of the numbers game produced by the Fixed Term Parliament Act have to agree before there can be an early election, aren't going to allow one before they can be reasonably confident of winning, or at least producing a result which will allow them to form a coalition. Their Tory rebel allies will not play ball, because their only hope of surviving is if they can engineer the removal of Boris Johnson from the leadership of the Tory Party. Since they were soundly beaten by him, in both the parliamentary party and membership elections for that post, it is unlikely that they will succeed in that, certainly in the near future. The selection of a replacement Speaker is also in the hands of this parliamentary alliance (if Bercow does resign) and I can't see them selecting a candidate who they cannot be certain will allow Bercows "off the cuff constitutional reforms" to stand, or even be continued. For these reasons, whilst i agree that an election is urgently needed, and is the proper way out of this mess, I am less than sanguine that it will be allowed to happen. I suspect we could be in for a long wait - maybe even until the due date under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act. Two and a half years?

 

The combination of the internal (and eternal) feud within the Tory Party, an opposition who despite the government disarray and losing their majority, find themselves unlikely to win an election, the provisions of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act and Mr Speaker Bercow's less than impartial activism have driven a convoy of coaches and horses through the British constitutional conventions under which these matters have hitherto been decided. I suspect we're in for a long wait. The idea that the people should have any say was abandoned long ago.

I appreciate your well thought out post, which has a lot of merit for discussion. Owing to time restraint on here, my immediate reaction is short..

 

I think if johnson fails to get a deal and crashes out, a vote of no confidence would generate a GE. Then it's up for grabs, IMO. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by stephenterry
addition to text.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

Thank god you turned up to put our minds at rest...

(The salient point starts @ 3 mins. the remainder is left for context)

One senile old fool talking absolute mince in the house of Lords where even all the other old senile fools laugh at him.

Thats your evidence?

Good grief get a grip.

[SheungWan]

Not according to the financial watchdog. There are billions being invested on a fall in sterling come the end of October. Mostly from hedge funds.

For every currency position there is someone on the other side of that trade.

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[SheungWan]

An election soon is a cast iron certainty. There's no need to 'persuade' the people - it's up to the new government to act on whatever they consider to be best for Britain (hopefully) and not their own selfish reasons. Not that I have any faith in that happening.
 
Most likely a hung parliament and another continuous party politics roundabout that will see Britain as a reincarnation of the 'sick man of Europe'. 

Right now there is no election while no-deal Brexit is in play.

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[SheungWan]

I appreciate your well thought out post, which has a lot of merit for discussion. Owing to time restraint on here, my immediate reaction is short..
 
I think if johnson fails to get a deal and crashes out, a vote of no confidence would generate a GE. Then it's up for grabs, IMO. 

Maybe. The opposition would be in the position of going for a referendum prior to any election.

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[SheungWan]

MSM have missed it because its not true.
The only place its gaining traction is among brexit fundamentalists.

That would be the Nationalist Conspiracy Munching Crowd.

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[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

One senile old fool talking absolute mince in the house of Lords where even all the other old senile fools laugh at him.

Thats your evidence?

Good grief get a grip.

Plenty more where that came from pal...

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Plenty more where that came from pal...

 

That you have a never ending supply of ripped memes has never been in doubt.

[evadgib]

44 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That you have a never ending supply of ripped memes has never been in doubt.

Nor has the appearance of this website's answer to Alan Titchmarsh within minutes of Rhubarb being mentioned ????

 

Back to my point for @Rookiescot who appears to be struggling to counter the serious points I have highlighted.

Edited October 1, 2019 by evadgib

[Rookiescot]

33 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Nor has the appearance of this website's answer to Alan Titchmarsh within minutes of Rhubarb being mentioned ????

 

Back to my point for @Rookiescot who appears to be struggling to counter the serious points I have highlighted.

Good grief. 

Are you still pushing this using opinion pieces from Brexit supporting fools?

How long have we been a member of NATO? Being a member of NATO never meant we gave up control of our own armed forces.

Being a member of the EU does not mean giving up control of our own armed forces.

This is beyond ludicrous to suggest that we ever will.

Do you seriously think France who is not even a full member of NATO would surrender control of its armed forces?

I cannot begin to tell you how, having been a soldier for 8 years, how hard it would be to get soldiers to renounce their deceleration of allegiance to to the Queen in favour of a deceleration of allegiance to anyone or anything else. They simply will not do it.

Also remember that any actions by the armed forces require the Queen to give permission. We worked for the crown not the state.

Stop with the conspiracy nonsense.    

[evadgib]

21 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Good grief. 

Are you still pushing this using opinion pieces from Brexit supporting fools?

How long have we been a member of NATO? Being a member of NATO never meant we gave up control of our own armed forces.

Being a member of the EU does not mean giving up control of our own armed forces.

This is beyond ludicrous to suggest that we ever will.

Do you seriously think France who is not even a full member of NATO would surrender control of its armed forces?

I cannot begin to tell you how, having been a soldier for 8 years, how hard it would be to get soldiers to renounce their deceleration of allegiance to to the Queen in favour of a deceleration of allegiance to anyone or anything else. They simply will not do it.

Also remember that any actions by the armed forces require the Queen to give permission. We worked for the crown not the state.

Stop with the conspiracy nonsense.    

If it's nonsence why are so many key figures weighing in?

I don't know the answer but having served under Reilly I know he's no fool.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, stephenterry said:

I appreciate your well thought out post, which has a lot of merit for discussion. Owing to time restraint on here, my immediate reaction is short..

 

I think if johnson fails to get a deal and crashes out, a vote of no confidence would generate a GE. Then it's up for grabs, IMO. 

Not necessarily a GE, a successful vote of no confidence first triggers the opportunity for the opposition to form a government.

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

If it's nonsence why are so many key figures weighing in?

I don't know the answer but having served under Reilly I know he's no fool.

 

So if you served in the armed forces you will know there is no way you will get those guys to change their oath of allegiance.

There is no way the command of Her Majesties forces will ever relinquish control of those forces to anyone else.

You know this is a lie.

Why are you spreading this?

Its because you are desperate. 

[evadgib]

12 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So if you served in the armed forces you will know there is no way you will get those guys to change their oath of allegiance.

There is no way the command of Her Majesties forces will ever relinquish control of those forces to anyone else.

You know this is a lie.

Why are you spreading this?

Its because you are desperate. 

I thought same but nothing would surprise re that lot during May's watch.

[evadgib]

On 10/1/2019 at 11:15 PM, Rookiescot said:

So if you served in the armed forces you will know there is no way you will get those guys to change their oath of allegiance.

There is no way the command of Her Majesties forces will ever relinquish control of those forces to anyone else.

You know this is a lie.

Why are you spreading this?

Its because you are desperate. 

Further to my earlier concerns...

(Content not Poster if anyone feels the urge to reply, which in this case inc Gerard Batten & Andrew Budgen. It's happening right under our noses!)

Edited October 3, 2019 by evadgib

[cleopatra2]

46 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Further to my earlier concerns...

(Content not Poster if anyone feels the urge to reply, which in this case inc Gerard Batten & Andrew Budgen. It's happening right under our noses!)

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/fact-check-can-the-uk-be-forced-into-an-eu-army/

[metisdead]

Some posts containing trolling representations of people's names have been removed as well as the replies.