11 minutes ago, candide said:

Because of stress and rage, I guess there will be more occurences of it.

I agree and I'm looking forward to it!

1 minute ago, Becker said:

I agree and I'm looking forward to it!

Yeah, I'm looking forward to Pelosi taking a nose dive, just as likely. 

Another coup attempt by the Democrats.  I wonder what the people will say when they learn about this:

 

 

15 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

'Can you imagine going to the Dr's and needing an operation only to have the so called expert tell you that "you're not viable enough" to receive needed treatment.'

That is so not how socialised medicine works it's laughable. You obviously haven't been exposed to something like the NHS where you would never be turned away from essential treatment.

The rest of your post is just the usual selfish 'I'm alright Jack, so who cares about anyone else' nonsense we have come to expect from Trump fans. 

Next thing you're going to tell me is that taxes won't go up to pay for this.

3 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

Another coup attempt by the Democrats.  I wonder what the people will say when they learn about this:

 

 

Confirmed by Sputnik news! ????

https://sputniknews.com/us/201909291076914470-us-intel-community-quietly-changed-whistleblower-submission-form-enabling-trump-complaint--report/

3 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Next thing you're going to tell me is that taxes won't go up to pay for this.

God almighty, Trump fans and their obsession with taxes. 

Universal healthcare (even with increased taxes) has been proven time and time again to be more cost effective than insurance based cover but it's just not worth going into again with people that don't want to listen. Especially those that believe that poorer people are just lazy and deserve everything they get. 

A society should be judged on how it treats it's most vulnerable NOT on how it looks after it's richest.

...public opinion?--is this something from fairy-tale?

25 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I worked hard for what I have.

You & I both! seems the "lefties" have a problem with our generation as they are too busy being funded to protest whatever is the flavor of the day rather than work! & woe betide if you think different to them and don't believe their ridiculous funded Main Stream Media, one day they may realise why their is so much funding to feed their ridiculousness! 

8 minutes ago, candide said:

Confirmed by Sputnik news! ????

https://sputniknews.com/us/201909291076914470-us-intel-community-quietly-changed-whistleblower-submission-form-enabling-trump-complaint--report/

How about that.  Also found here:

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/27/intel-community-secretly-gutted-requirement-of-first-hand-whistleblower-knowledge/

and here:

https://www.westernjournal.com/intel-community-uploaded-altered-whistleblower-form-2-days-complaint-released-public/

and here:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/28/report-intelligence-community-secretly-eliminated-requirement-whistleblowers-have-direct-knowledge-of-alleged-wrongdoing/

And lookey lookey, even here:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/29/lindsey_graham_the_whistleblower_complaint_is_just_hearsay.html

Oh no! Not FactCheck.org too!

 

OMIGOD look what they say about Biden

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/the-whistleblower-complaint-timeline/

 

2018

Jan. 23 — Biden boasts that he threatened Ukraine’s then-president, Petro Poroshenko, and then-prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, who was widely viewed as ineffective at prosecuting corruption, or risk losing $1 billion in loan guarantees from the U.S. “I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money,” Biden says in remarks at an event hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations. “Well, <deleted>. He got fired.” Shokin was removed in March 2016.

 

 

5 minutes ago, CGW said:

You & I both! seems the "lefties" have a problem with our generation as they are too busy being funded to protest whatever is the flavor of the day rather than work! & woe betide if you think different to them and don't believe their ridiculous funded Main Stream Media, one day they may realise why their is so much funding to feed their ridiculousness! 

The 'lefties'  you so easily deride do not believe in free handouts and 'being funded' but rather a fairer system where those that have legitimate issue are looked after and cared for by those that are more able to do so. Personally I am a successful businessman with 60 employees here in Thailand so right-wing 'save my taxes' should be all I'm about but I understand that a happier and more even society is better for all, whether you are rich or poor. 

No one benefits from a sub class who struggle every day just to get by and to say it's generational is just wrong as I am Gen X. I'm just not selfish Gen X.     

12 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

God almighty, Trump fans and their obsession with taxes. 

Universal healthcare (even with increased taxes) has been proven time and time again to be more cost effective than insurance based cover but it's just not worth going into again with people that don't want to listen. Especially those that believe that poorer people are just lazy and deserve everything they get. 

A society should be judged on how it treats it's most vulnerable NOT on how it looks after it's richest.

Oh yeah, let's not talk about taxes, much like when Warren is asked, she starts waving her crazy arms and deflects the question. Under your plan can I keep my health care if I want??

3 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

How about that.  Also found here:

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/27/intel-community-secretly-gutted-requirement-of-first-hand-whistleblower-knowledge/

and here:

https://www.westernjournal.com/intel-community-uploaded-altered-whistleblower-form-2-days-complaint-released-public/

and here:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/28/report-intelligence-community-secretly-eliminated-requirement-whistleblowers-have-direct-knowledge-of-alleged-wrongdoing/

And lookey lookey, even here:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/29/lindsey_graham_the_whistleblower_complaint_is_just_hearsay.html

Oh no! Not FactCheck.org too!

 

OMIGOD look what they say about Biden

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/the-whistleblower-complaint-timeline/

 

2018

Jan. 23 — Biden boasts that he threatened Ukraine’s then-president, Petro Poroshenko, and then-prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, who was widely viewed as ineffective at prosecuting corruption, or risk losing $1 billion in loan guarantees from the U.S. “I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money,” Biden says in remarks at an event hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations. “Well, <deleted>. He got fired.” Shokin was removed in March 2016.

 

 

Please go over previous posts. This has been gone over to death.

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

Oh yeah, let's not talk about taxes, much like when Warren is asked, she starts waving her crazy arms and deflects the question. Under your plan can I keep my health care if I want??

Firstly Warren is only talking about increasing taxes on the very wealthy - does that affect you? And secondly, there is private healthcare schemes available for those that want it in the UK as well. They are not mutually exclusive; you can have a great universal healthcare scheme that means people don't go bankrupt over an unpaid hospital bill and for those that want quicker and a more 'private' care, well they can pay for that if that's what they want.   

28 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Firstly Warren is only talking about increasing taxes on the very wealthy - does that affect you? And secondly, there is private healthcare schemes available for those that want it in the UK as well. They are not mutually exclusive; you can have a great universal healthcare scheme that means people don't go bankrupt over an unpaid hospital bill and for those that want quicker and a more 'private' care, well they can pay for that if that's what they want.   

When asked about middle America's taxes going up she doesn't answer. You would have to be naïve to believe only the wealthiest taxes will increase.

 

A buddy of mine was temporarily paralyzed while body surfing, 2 weeks in intensive, he got better. He had no Insurance, walked out of hospital not owing a dime.

 

Not sure what you mean by "private care" I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield, is that private care?

 

I'm all for folks being taken care of, but I know leaving this up to the government is the wrong answer.

34 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

How about that.  Also found here:

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/27/intel-community-secretly-gutted-requirement-of-first-hand-whistleblower-knowledge/

and here:

https://www.westernjournal.com/intel-community-uploaded-altered-whistleblower-form-2-days-complaint-released-public/

and here:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/28/report-intelligence-community-secretly-eliminated-requirement-whistleblowers-have-direct-knowledge-of-alleged-wrongdoing/

And lookey lookey, even here:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/29/lindsey_graham_the_whistleblower_complaint_is_just_hearsay.html

Oh no! Not FactCheck.org too!

 

OMIGOD look what they say about Biden

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/the-whistleblower-complaint-timeline/

 

2018

Jan. 23 — Biden boasts that he threatened Ukraine’s then-president, Petro Poroshenko, and then-prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, who was widely viewed as ineffective at prosecuting corruption, or risk losing $1 billion in loan guarantees from the U.S. “I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money,” Biden says in remarks at an event hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations. “Well, <deleted>. He got fired.” Shokin was removed in March 2016.

 

 

The Federalist, Breitbart, etc.. what an impressive list of trusted sources! ????

 

About your quote from fastcheck.org: so what?

 

Nobody has ever challenged the veracity of this statement.  What has been challenged is Trump's assertion that Biden did that in order to prevent the "very good" prosecutor (who was "ineffective at prosecuting corruption", according to your quote) from investigating the company for which his son was working. In particular as the case had been closed in 2012 and the prosecutor was fired for not prosecuting anyone.

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

For over 2 yrs the rabid wacky libs beat the drums over the Mueller report, all we heard was "the walls are closing in on Mr. Trump"

 

I'm just so very happy my working for a paycheck days are numbered. I want no part of Socialized medicine.

Can you imagine going to the Dr's and needing an operation only to have the so called expert tell you that "you're not viable enough" to receive needed treatment.

 

Now, I understand the unemployed, the unemployable like the idea of a free life, I do, I get it. And, I understand in the not to far away future it will become inevitable because of AI. The day will come when their will be no jobs for many and the government will dictate who lives, who dies, who can have children, all that.

 

I'm almost.....real close to collecting my SS and 21.7 yr Gov pension (FERS) I'll keep my Blue Cross,Blue Shield Ins. I've got 2 rentals in the US plus some other properties, bought and paid for 2 houses in Thailand. 

 

You guys duke it out, all I need now is some THC oil ????

Check your bilges I think you are listing lol anyway I’m much like you worked hard all my life saved have rentals have a home(s) paid for have a pension have my social security.but here is we’re we differ donalds so called tax break cost me 9k give or take his trade war cost me plenty my blue cross supplemental insurance almost takes a lawyer to get those a holes to pay so imo all donalds (achievements) have benifeted the weathly not the working class he is imo a fraud I am not a mark I see him for what he is mrs Pelosi does as well any potus that is willing to sell out our sovereignty to get re elected belongs in prison imo 

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

"But in other countries people don't vote for them to become their leaders."

 

Nonsense.

The Philippines, Brazil....just two easy examples. More out there.

Brazil, yes, but the Philippines, no. 

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Lets put this 'quid pro quo' nonsense to bed straight away with a very simple scenario.

A guy comes up to you in the street and sticks a gun in your face and yells 'give me your money!' Now are you uncertain about what is happening because he didn't say 'Give me your money, this is a robbery?' Of course not. You know explicitly what is happening because your brain is wired for nuances. Therefore when the POTUS asks for 'a favour' with the exact words 'There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.' we are left under no illusion what is being asked for and that it is an attempt to get dirt on a political opponent on the back of a huge financial inducement.

It is a crime in the US to ask a foreign entity to assist in any capacity in a US election.

I'm not sure how much clearer it can get.  

 

"A guy comes up to you in the street and sticks a gun in your face and yells 'give me your money!' "

 

If only it were that simple, it would be obvious. But the problem with the transcript vis-a-vis your analogy, (and yes I have read the transcript as well as the legal analysis on both sides), is that there was no "gun" presented. You have to infer that the robber may have had a gun or a weapon, but simply chose not to display it at that time. So if someone just comes up to you on the street and says "Give me your money" with no threatening weapon displayed, is that a robbery or simply a request? One is legal, the other is not.   You have to make the legal argument that it was obvious a robbery was intended, even though a weapon was neither explicitly shown nor stated.  That is a very tough legal argument for something as serious as a presedential impeachment. Not impossible of course, but really, really difficult.

 

"it is an attempt to get dirt on a political opponent on the back of a huge financial inducement"

 

This is not clear from the transcript. It is certainly the opinion of those who are pushing for impeachment, but this is never stated in the transcript. You are assigning your opinion of his motive to the words and his supporters will not agree with you. It doesn't make them stupid and you brilliant. It does mean that people have different values and interpret the data to fit their personal bias.

 

Objectively this is anything but clear.  It's quite muddy in fact, and I think there is essentially no chance (right now) it will result in a conviction. The vote will most likely fall straight down party lines if this is all there is.  Let's wait and see what other evidence surfaces during the hearings, maybe something will come out that will shed more light on this and push the needle clearly to one side, but based on what has been shown so far there is absolutely nothing concrete.

 

Those that know me know I do not support Trump. He is bad for America. He is a psycopath and a demagogue. But the current way people just snarl and denigrate those with opposing views in the USA is anything but helpful. Trump is a symptom of a very deep problem that is a long time in the making.  This impeachment hearing is unlikely to be anything other than political theater. Enjoy it like you would enjoy any comedy at the cinema.

 

46 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

"A guy comes up to you in the street and sticks a gun in your face and yells 'give me your money!' "

 

If only it were that simple, it would be obvious. But the problem with the transcript vis-a-vis your analogy, (and yes I have read the transcript as well as the legal analysis on both sides), is that there was no "gun" presented. You have to infer that the robber may have had a gun or a weapon, but simply chose not to display it at that time. So if someone just comes up to you on the street and says "Give me your money" with no threatening weapon displayed, is that a robbery or simply a request? One is legal, the other is not.   You have to make the legal argument that it was obvious a robbery was intended, even though a weapon was neither explicitly shown nor stated.  That is a very tough legal argument for something as serious as a presedential impeachment. Not impossible of course, but really, really difficult.

 

"it is an attempt to get dirt on a political opponent on the back of a huge financial inducement"

 

This is not clear from the transcript. It is certainly the opinion of those who are pushing for impeachment, but this is never stated in the transcript. You are assigning your opinion of his motive to the words and his supporters will not agree with you. It doesn't make them stupid and you brilliant. It does mean that people have different values and interpret the data to fit their personal bias.

 

Objectively this is anything but clear.  It's quite muddy in fact, and I think there is essentially no chance (right now) it will result in a conviction. The vote will most likely fall straight down party lines if this is all there is.  Let's wait and see what other evidence surfaces during the hearings, maybe something will come out that will shed more light on this and push the needle clearly to one side, but based on what has been shown so far there is absolutely nothing concrete.

 

Those that know me know I do not support Trump. He is bad for America. He is a psycopath and a demagogue. But the current way people just snarl and denigrate those with opposing views in the USA is anything but helpful. Trump is a symptom of a very deep problem that is a long time in the making.  This impeachment hearing is unlikely to be anything other than political theater. Enjoy it like you would enjoy any comedy at the cinema.

 

You have not read the transcript. It isnt available. It is a snapshot of a 30 min conversation produced by the WH.

 

Trump didnt say give me your money. He simply witheld the approved funds from congress.

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Please go over previous posts. This has been gone over to death.

No.

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

It is a snapshot of a 30 min conversation produced by the WH.

More #fakenews put out as real.  The intelligence community is responsible for this function.

Poor Don is becoming increasingly unhinged;

 

Link: Trump suggests intel chairman should be arrested for 'treason'

36 minutes ago, Becker said:

Poor Don is becoming increasingly unhinged;

 

Link: Trump suggests intel chairman should be arrested for 'treason'

Look it's already very ugly and it's going to get much uglier. "trump" is a classic dictator personality in that he would literally do ANYTHING to stay in power and he will push it to the edges of what he can get away with. The question is how much is left of American democratic institutions that will effectively RESTRAIN him. Anyone that tells you that they know the answer to that is being silly. We are in truly unchartered territory.

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Look it's already very ugly and it's going to get much uglier. "trump" is a classic dictator personality in that he would literally do ANYTHING to stay in power and he will push it to the edges of what he can get away with. The question is how much is left of American democratic institutions that will effectively RESTRAIN him. Anyone that tells you that they know the answer to that is being silly. We are in truly unchartered territory.

No doubt, things can get very ugly indeed due to his 5th Ave base.

1 hour ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

More #fakenews put out as real.  The intelligence community is responsible for this function.

The whitehouse is.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I understand that a happier and more even society is better for all, whether you are rich or poor. 

I agree with you - But - with all the nonsense going on have you not noticed that the rich are getting richer, the poor - yes poorer! 

The social divide is getting bigger worldwide, do you not think this just may be "by design"? Divide and rule!

Absolutely it is. The further along this goes, and the more defensive Trump gets, the guiltier he looks. Amusing how the man who is possibly the least patriotic and most disloyal of all presidents, is now accusing Schiff of treason. Who is the guy who committed treason in this equation? How many times has Trump put other counties before the national security of his own nation? First he sold out to Putin. Then he sold out to MBS. Then he failed with N. Korea twice. Now he starts a major trade war and betrays our allies. Could this man be more dangerous? Could he be LESS of a patriot? Five times a draft dodger. Bankrupts five major companies. Stiffs thousands of small American contractors. Has 3,600 lawsuits he is engaged in at the time he gets elected. Could he be any filthier than that? You could not make this stuff up. 

Even by his standards , Trump's tweet rants this morning were beyond reason.

It is no longer a case of simply beeing boorish and unpresidential , the man is unraveling fast.

7 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Even by his standards , Trump's tweet rants this morning were beyond reason.

It is no longer a case of simply beeing boorish and unpresidential , the man is unraveling fast.

Yes. He is trapped, cornered and guilty, and he knows it. 

The old tricks that have always worked for him are no longer working. 
He senses that they will never work again.

He doesn't have any new tricks.

Cooperate with congress, he gets impeached.

Don't cooperate with congress, he gets impeached for not cooperating. 

The "trump" fans are in denial. They're trying to convince themselves and others than nothing has changed, that it's all a nothing burger.  How long can that hold up?

Ever heard of orange toast?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/09/30/trump-is-cornered-his-civil-war-threat-stinks-panic/

 

Quote

Trump threatened ‘civil war.’ He’s cornered — and panicking about it.

 

Edited September 30, 20196 yr by Jingthing

17 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Yet another nothing-burger.

Ok , that explains why the White House tried to hide the transcript and Trump has reacted like a lunatic who has had his gonads stung by a large wasp.