Lanna words with the sixth tone

[Percy Penguin]

I was wondering whether the words หญ้า and ใบ้ exist in Lanna and, if so, whether they have the sixth tone. It'd be good to get a list of Lanna words that use the sixth tone, and maybe some minimal pairs to compare it with the (Lanna) falling tone.

 

I did find this in an old thread:

 

On 11/14/2011 at 10:05 PM, Richard W said:

...

1. I believe the following actually have the sixth tone, i.e. the same tone as หน้า 'face', เสื้อ 'clothing', ข้าว 'rice', ห้า 'five' and ผ้า 'cloth':
   1.  
   2. ญุ้ง = 'ยุ่ง', 'to be busy, involved'
   3. นิ๊ง = 'เกี่ยง', 'to argue over'
   4. เฒ่า in 'ป้อเฒ่า' 'grandfather'. (Etymologically, เฒ่า ought to be spelt เถ้า - it isn't just English that has etymologically incorrect spellings.)

 

[*]I believe the following actually have the 'falling' tone, i.e. the same tone as พ่อ 'father' (generally transcribed as ป้อ for Northern Thai) and แม่ 'mother'

 

1. ผ้าน = 'เข็ด, ขยาด' 'to be afraid of'
2. น้วม = 'ข้ำ, เละ', 'to be mushy'

 

...

This is a help, but can anyone add to it or point me to something online?

 

Thanks

 

[tgeezer]

Is there a Lanna language? I know something about tones in Thai and there are five, they are common, 1 , 2, 3, and 4 .I am a little reluctant to ask because Richatd Wordington is a linguist and they all know much more than me!  

[Percy Penguin]

Well, there was at one point, although apparently it varied a lot from place to place. It had many words in common with Siamese but also had its own script and its own system of six tones. These were essentially the five Thai tones, plus an extra tone that is described as falling but was not the same as the ordinary falling tone.

 

I am in Chiang Mai at the moment and have heard a few words with what sounds to me like a variant of the normal falling tone, so I'm wondering if this is what is left of the sixth tone. I realise that the tones do vary for all sorts of other reasons, but was interested in the idea that there might be a link with Lanna.

[Oxx]

10 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Is there a Lanna language? I know something about tones in Thai and there are five

 

Lanna is alternatively known as Northern Thai.  It's a related (South Western Tai) language, but has its own script and tone system with 6 tones.  It also has a few differences in the consonants.  

 

There's a brief overview of the language at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Thai_language