"Cheat Sheet" for Longstay Insurance Policies

[Sheryl]

Caveats:

 

1. The attached  is based on information shown on the website that links to the www.longstay.tgia.org website supklemented by information from those companies.   Level of detail on these varies. More information would be available by contacting the company and getting the policy documents. Additionally, what is shown here needs to be cross-checked/verified against actual policy documents as sometimes there are conditionalities not clear on website Benefit Schedules.

 

2. This is as of  19 November

 

3. It is at this time unclear if other company's policies (foreign and Thai-based) will also be acceptable beyond the first year. The companies listed here clearly have been designated by TI as eligible.

 

4. The approved companies will issue a certificate with standard wording to show Immigration. On first entry under an O-A visa in which case there will be a notation made in the passport by the Embassy issuing the visa.

 

 

OAvisapolicycheatsheet.xlsx

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Saltire]

Thanks for this, I wsa hoping someone would do this ????

 

This confirms that everage premium for these policies, for me is about 90K Baht for very low, inadequate cover. My current UK International policy covers me for 13 million Baht , for half the premium. If this ever gets applied to extensions of stay I will need to ask them to add out patient cover and hope my insurance company will sign the certification form.

[Sheryl]

Thanks for this, I wsa hoping someone would do this [emoji846]

 

This confirms that everage premium for these policies, for me is about 90K Baht for very low, inadequate cover. My current UK International policy covers me for 13 million Baht , for half the premium. If this ever gets applied to extensions of stay I will need to ask them to add out patient cover and hope my insurance company will sign the certification form.

It is yet to be confirmed that this (use of foteign indurance) will be allowable past the first year that visa is issued.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Exploring Thailand]

5 minutes ago, Saltire said:

Thanks for this, I wsa hoping someone would do this ????

 

This confirms that everage premium for these policies, for me is about 90K Baht for very low, inadequate cover. My current UK International policy covers me for 13 million Baht , for half the premium. If this ever gets applied to extensions of stay I will need to ask them to add out patient cover and hope my insurance company will sign the certification form.

Do you mind sharing which UK company you're with?

 

You might also want to check out this post by a representative of one of the companies in the Spreadsheet (Pacific Cross). He seems to be saying that he will be possible to use their other policies (he refers to them as "historical") which are slightly more expensive than the ones in the spreadsheet, but offer ten-times or more the cover.

[Saltire]

30 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It is yet to be confirmed that this (use og foteign indurance) will be allowable past the first year that visa is issued.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Indeed, lots to be clarified, as usual. The web page with the list of companies also has the form to be used for existing insurers. Who knows! All I know is i'd be well pee'd off if I had to pay double for a much worse policy. Also I have been with my insurers over 5 years and am 65 soon, so at the cut off for acceptance from some companies. An existing policy has advantages, I hope.

[Saltire]

23 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Do you mind sharing which UK company you're with?

 

You might also want to check out this post by a representative of one of the companies in the Spreadsheet (Pacific Cross). He seems to be saying that he will be possible to use their other policies (he refers to them as "historical") which are slightly more expensive than the ones in the spreadsheet, but offer ten-times or more the cover.

Thanks for the info, I will check the link.

 

I am with Health Care International (HCI) I can't recommend or otherwise as I have luckily never had to claim. Been with them 5 years and at 65 soon, better staying with them than changing in my opinion. Not sure if they would honour it, but they say if there is no claim based on my pre-existing conditions in the first 3 years of cover, they put a moritorium in place and would 'consider' covering them.

[Airalee]

Thanks Sheryl!  Is there any way you can pin this at the top of the Health Forum?

[Exploring Thailand]

17 minutes ago, Saltire said:

Thanks for the info, I will check the link.

 

I am with Health Care International (HCI) I can't recommend or otherwise as I have luckily never had to claim. Been with them 5 years and at 65 soon, better staying with them than changing in my opinion. Not sure if they would honour it, but they say if there is no claim based on my pre-existing conditions in the first 3 years of cover, they put a moritorium in place and would 'consider' covering them.

Thanks. I'll check them out. "Consider" is a typical insurer's word, but at least it's better than "no"!

[OneMoreFarang]

I just had a look at your file. I am sure lots of people will find it helpful.

Currently I am working and I have an insurance and I don't have to worry about this.

 

A long time ago I sold health insurance policies and I think it would be good to add the following things to your file:

- Do the companies require a medical examination, and maybe starting at which age.

- How long do people have to report their medical history. I.e. some companies ask if someone was in a hospital in the last 5 or 10 years, some companies ask for any admittance to a hospital. And similar for outpatient visits to the doctor. Do they ask maybe only for 3 or 5 years or longer.

This is important for people who had i.e. a heart problem 11 years ago but did not visit a doctor since then. If the health insurance asks "only" for the last 10 years then maybe it does not have to be mentioned.

- Where are people covered? Only in Thailand? Maybe everywhere except the USA? If you travel that is important.

 

And I think people should think about why they want to sign up for the health insurance.

a) Do you do this to get money from the insurance when you are sick and need it?

b) Or do you do it to be able to stay in Thailand. It's more important to have the document and the payment is nice but not the primary motivation.

 

Because if it is b) and you care mostly about that document and you know you are not healthy (i.e. preexisting heart condition), then maybe you want to think about not mentioning your health history. Because if you do that you might not get any insurance and no insurance document at all. And that is then maybe the end of your life in Thailand (hopefully not but possible).

And be aware that health insurance companies talk to each other. If you wrote in one application form you have a heart problem and you get rejected and then you apply at another company and don't mention your condition that is a bad idea and likely a reason to throw you out.

 

In general about preexisting conditions: Insurance companies ask about your medical history. And in bad cases they might not insure you at all or they exclude preexisting conditions. But if they insure you that does not mean all is fine.

Because if you have some expensive bill, maybe years later, then at that time the health company might start digging if you had anything previously which you maybe didn't mention in the application form. And then, years later, they might tell you that they don't pay for the invoice which you just sent them. And in bad cases they will throw you out completely because you didn't tell them the whole truth. But obviously they keep the money which you paid over the last years.

 

I hope that helps a little.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

He seems to be saying that he will be possible to use their other policies (he refers to them as "historical") which are slightly more expensive than the ones in the spreadsheet, but offer ten-times or more the cover.

Be very careful with those historical contracts.

Because when those insurances are not often sold anymore than the average age of the insured people in those contracts is going up all the time. And that means the cost for the insurance for that contract goes up. And that means renewing them will likely get a lot more expensive compared to other contracts which have also lots of young people covered. 

[Sheryl]

I just had a look at your file. I am sure lots of people will find it helpful.
Currently I am working and I have an insurance and I don't have to worry about this.
 
A long time ago I sold health insurance policies and I think it would be good to add the following things to your file:
- Do the companies require a medical examination, and maybe starting at which age.
- How long do people have to report their medical history. I.e. some companies ask if someone was in a hospital in the last 5 or 10 years, some companies ask for any admittance to a hospital. And similar for outpatient visits to the doctor. Do they ask maybe only for 3 or 5 years or longer.
This is important for people who had i.e. a heart problem 11 years ago but did not visit a doctor since then. If the health insurance asks "only" for the last 10 years then maybe it does not have to be mentioned.
- Where are people covered? Only in Thailand? Maybe everywhere except the USA? If you travel that is important.
 
And I think people should think about why they want to sign up for the health insurance.
a) Do you do this to get money from the insurance when you are sick and need it?
b) Or do you do it to be able to stay in Thailand. It's more important to have the document and the payment is nice but not the primary motivation.
 
Because if it is b) and you care mostly about that document and you know you are not healthy (i.e. preexisting heart condition), then maybe you want to think about not mentioning your health history. Because if you do that you might not get any insurance and no insurance document at all. And that is then maybe the end of your life in Thailand (hopefully not but possible).
And be aware that health insurance companies talk to each other. If you wrote in one application form you have a heart problem and you get rejected and then you apply at another company and don't mention your condition that is a bad idea and likely a reason to throw you out.
 
In general about preexisting conditions: Insurance companies ask about your medical history. And in bad cases they might not insure you at all or they exclude preexisting conditions. But if they insure you that does not mean all is fine.
Because if you have some expensive bill, maybe years later, then at that time the health company might start digging if you had anything previously which you maybe didn't mention in the application form. And then, years later, they might tell you that they don't pay for the invoice which you just sent them. And in bad cases they will throw you out completely because you didn't tell them the whole truth. But obviously they keep the money which you paid over the last years.
 
I hope that helps a little.

The additional info you request is mostly not available on the websites. One would have to contact the companies and get full brochure and policy documents. I have summarized only the info readily available on websites.

People should be aware that lying on an insurance spplucation voids the entire policy. Even if someone thinks they don't care about health insurance and just want to meet visa criteria by getting a policy, they will likely feel very differently when they are faced with hospital bills to pay.


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[Airalee]

21 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I just had a look at your file. I am sure lots of people will find it helpful.

Currently I am working and I have an insurance and I don't have to worry about this.

 

A long time ago I sold health insurance policies and I think it would be good to add the following things to your file:

- Do the companies require a medical examination, and maybe starting at which age.

- How long do people have to report their medical history. I.e. some companies ask if someone was in a hospital in the last 5 or 10 years, some companies ask for any admittance to a hospital. And similar for outpatient visits to the doctor. Do they ask maybe only for 3 or 5 years or longer.

This is important for people who had i.e. a heart problem 11 years ago but did not visit a doctor since then. If the health insurance asks "only" for the last 10 years then maybe it does not have to be mentioned.

- Where are people covered? Only in Thailand? Maybe everywhere except the USA? If you travel that is important.

 

And I think people should think about why they want to sign up for the health insurance.

a) Do you do this to get money from the insurance when you are sick and need it?

b) Or do you do it to be able to stay in Thailand. It's more important to have the document and the payment is nice but not the primary motivation.

 

Because if it is b) and you care mostly about that document and you know you are not healthy (i.e. preexisting heart condition), then maybe you want to think about not mentioning your health history. Because if you do that you might not get any insurance and no insurance document at all. And that is then maybe the end of your life in Thailand (hopefully not but possible).

And be aware that health insurance companies talk to each other. If you wrote in one application form you have a heart problem and you get rejected and then you apply at another company and don't mention your condition that is a bad idea and likely a reason to throw you out.

 

In general about preexisting conditions: Insurance companies ask about your medical history. And in bad cases they might not insure you at all or they exclude preexisting conditions. But if they insure you that does not mean all is fine.

Because if you have some expensive bill, maybe years later, then at that time the health company might start digging if you had anything previously which you maybe didn't mention in the application form. And then, years later, they might tell you that they don't pay for the invoice which you just sent them. And in bad cases they will throw you out completely because you didn't tell them the whole truth. But obviously they keep the money which you paid over the last years.

 

I hope that helps a little.

Great post.  I also come from an insurance background (P&C) and wonder if one way for the Thai government/insurance companies to help make this more affordable, is to corral the “less risky” group into their forced insurance plan in order to better balance the overall risk profile.

 

Basically, this policy sucks because the market consists of people who are over 50.  Many of whom aren’t in the best health.  We need to bring the 20-50 year olds out of the woodwork.  The digital nomads....the perpetual tourists...whoever.  It doesn’t make sense for a country to try to milk that demographic for ฿500k - ฿1,000k for an elite visa when they could just railroad a few new visa categories through and start welcoming the younger group with open arms.  Get that demographic in the system completely including whatever requirements they feel are necessary (฿800k bank accounts, health insurance, etc).  

[Exploring Thailand]

33 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And be aware that health insurance companies talk to each other. If you wrote in one application form you have a heart problem and you get rejected and then you apply at another company and don't mention your condition that is a bad idea and likely a reason to throw you out.

 

In general about preexisting conditions: Insurance companies ask about your medical history. And in bad cases they might not insure you at all or they exclude preexisting conditions. But if they insure you that does not mean all is fine.

Because if you have some expensive bill, maybe years later, then at that time the health company might start digging if you had anything previously which you maybe didn't mention in the application form. And then, years later, they might tell you that they don't pay for the invoice which you just sent them. And in bad cases they will throw you out completely because you didn't tell them the whole truth. But obviously they keep the money which you paid over the last years.

 

Just curious as to how they dig. Say you have an operation. Assuming that the hospital has records showing that it is a preexisting illness, or is able to deduce that it is, will the hospital report that information to the insurance company?

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Just curious as to how they dig. Say you have an operation. Assuming that the hospital has records showing that it is a preexisting illness, or is able to deduce that it is, will the hospital report that information to the insurance company?

In all applications you allow the companies to dig.

And in many (I think all) applications you have to name the doctors you visited (I.e. in the last 10 years).

And that's where they dig. They request information from anyone who you named in your application. And if doctor A recommended that you visit specialist B it will be in your file.

And because these days everything is computerized it's likely that they get a good part of your history.

 

Let's stay with the heart as an example: Let's say your heart hurt 8 years ago and you see a doctor and he told you you might have a heart problem and you should see a specialist. But let's say you don't do that at that time.

And then, year later you have a heart attack and you need an expensive operation and the insurance should pay. Then they will ask the hospital about the details like if this was something which happend just now, or if your heart had likely problems for years. I am no expert but I am sure at least in many cases doctors will know if that should have hurt since years. And that's it...

 

A couple of years ago I was looking for a health insurance in Thailand. I visited years ago the BNH hospital a couple of times. So I thought to be sure let's look at my record in that hospital. I asked them if I can get my record and I think at that time they told me they can make a copy for 500B. I think it was about 30 pages with lots of details. I never expected what they had on file. And that is what the insurance companies will get.

[Exploring Thailand]

Thanks that's very interesting, and a bit of culture shock coming from the UK. As far as I know, in the UK, the privacy of your medical record is sacrosanct, but then there is usually no need for an insurance company to want to look at, unless you have private insurance.

[OneMoreFarang]

43 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Thanks that's very interesting, and a bit of culture shock coming from the UK. As far as I know, in the UK, the privacy of your medical record is sacrosanct, but then there is usually no need for an insurance company to want to look at, unless you have private insurance.

It is sacrosanct - until you authorize someone to look at it.

I guess if you want a high life insurance in the UK they will also want to check your health record - just one example.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

Basically, this policy sucks because the market consists of people who are over 50.  Many of whom aren’t in the best health.  We need to bring the 20-50 year olds out of the woodwork.  The digital nomads....the perpetual tourists...whoever.  It doesn’t make sense for a country to try to milk that demographic for ฿500k - ฿1,000k for an elite visa when they could just railroad a few new visa categories through and start welcoming the younger group with open arms.  Get that demographic in the system completely including whatever requirements they feel are necessary (฿800k bank accounts, health insurance, etc).  

 

Basically, Pacific Cross (one of the participating insurers in the O-A program) has indicated that the reason the premiums are so high, and the coverage is so low, in the O-A specific policies is that they are targeted and only applicable to the 50 and over set.

 

Fortunately, a rep for Pacific Cross has indicated in posts here that they've received government approval for having ALL of their regular health insurance policy offerings be acceptable for OA purposes, so long as the individual policy meets the government's 400/40K requirements. And in Pacific Cross's case, almost all of their regular policy offerings have limits above those minimum thresholds. Thus by opting for one of their regular policies instead of one of their OA ones, you get vastly higher covered limits for about the same or not much more money.

 

The only question is, will that same kind of broad policy acceptance also apply with the other participating O-A insurers that would allow OA folks to make use of their general population policies, again, provided they meet the government's 400/40K minimums.

 

[watgate]

Since I can not open up your link can you possibly add it to the pinned topics so one can just go there to look at the offerings of insurance companies. It would be most appreciated.

[Exploring Thailand]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Be very careful with those historical contracts.

Because when those insurances are not often sold anymore than the average age of the insured people in those contracts is going up all the time. And that means the cost for the insurance for that contract goes up. And that means renewing them will likely get a lot more expensive compared to other contracts which have also lots of young people covered. 

Actually, he was just using  the term "historical" in the context of that thread. By "historical" he means the policies they have had available on their website for a long time, as opposed to the ones that are linked to from the www.longstay.tgia.org. The "historical" policies "Standard", "Premiere", "Maxima","Ultima" are much better value than the OA-specific ones, "Platinum1/2/3".

[Sheryl]

Just curious as to how they dig. Say you have an operation. Assuming that the hospital has records showing that it is a preexisting illness, or is able to deduce that it is, will the hospital report that information to the insurance company?

When you are admitted to the hospital you usually sign a form giving permission for them to share your information with insurers etc. Definitely have to consent to that for them to dirctly bill an insurer.

 

You may also sign something like this as part of the terms and conditions of the insurance.

 

Even absent such a signature, this being Thailand insurer can readily get your records.

 

The hospital does not specifically contact them to tell them about your prior history. Rather they make your full records available on request. And insurer will so request.

 

I assume you are asking out of concern that a pre-existing condition may make you uninsurable. One of many major flaws to the new policy is that there is no alternative provision for people who cannot get a policy from the companies listed due to age or pre-existing condition.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

Since I can not open up your link can you possibly add it to the pinned topics so one can just go there to look at the offerings of insurance companies. It would be most appreciated.

Not sure why you can't open it? It is an Excel document.

The spreadsheet is too large to fit into a thread hence the attachment.

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[Sheryl]

 
Basically, Pacific Cross (one of the participating insurers in the O-A program) has indicated that the reason the premiums are so high, and the coverage is so low, in the O-A specific policies is that they are targeted and only applicable to the 50 and over set.
 
Fortunately, a rep for Pacific Cross has indicated in posts here that they've received government approval for having ALL of their regular health insurance policy offerings be acceptable for OA purposes, so long as the individual policy meets the government's 400/40K requirements. And in Pacific Cross's case, almost all of their regular policy offerings have limits above those minimum thresholds. Thus by opting for one of their regular policies instead of one of their OA ones, you get vastly higher covered limits for about the same or not much more money.
 
The only question is, will that same kind of broad policy acceptance also apply with the other participating O-A insurers that would allow OA folks to make use of their general population policies, again, provided they meet the government's 400/40K minimums.
 

TI does not require one policy vs another and some of these insurers don't list soecial policy for long stay. Any policy of at least 400/40 from one if the companies listed will do...but you may run into problems on age limit for application.

What is unclear is whether you can use a policy from a company not listed, Thai or foreign. The list does not include all insurers registered in Thailand.

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[watgate]

Sheryl- When I click on your link it says"This file does not have an app associated with it for performing this action. Please install an app or, if one is already installed, create an association in the Default Apps Settings page".  I have no idea what they are referring to. I don't have Word so can that possibly be the reason why I can't open up your link? Any info would be appreciated.

[Sheryl]

Sheryl- When I click on your link it says"This file does not have an app associated with it for performing this action. Please install an app or, if one is already installed, create an association in the Default Apps Settings page".  I have no idea what they are referring to. I don't have Word so can that possibly be the reason why I can't open up your link? Any info would be appreciated.

It is in Microsoft Excel
If you have MS Office installed you'll have it. If nor then you can't open it and this would hold true even if I sent it to you by PM.

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[OneMoreFarang]

This is a picture of Sheryl's Cheat Sheet. If you click on it you will see it in larger size.

Edited October 14, 2019 by OneMoreFarang

[Sheryl]

Thanks for that.

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[Exploring Thailand]

2 hours ago, watgate said:

Sheryl- When I click on your link it says"This file does not have an app associated with it for performing this action. Please install an app or, if one is already installed, create an association in the Default Apps Settings page".  I have no idea what they are referring to. I don't have Word so can that possibly be the reason why I can't open up your link? Any info would be appreciated.

 

Here is an online copy  http://bit.ly/2pgEbCM

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

TI does not require one policy vs another

 

According to the Pacific Cross rep's recent post here, originally, only the policies specifically listed on the TGIA O-A page were going to be deemed acceptable for O-A compliance, not their regular policy line. And even now, the Immigration language says the complying policies must be purchased online via the TGIA website.

 

 

However, the rep's post indicated PC ended up going and persuading the government to allow all of their policies that met the coverage minimums to be deemed in compliance -- not just the 3 O-A policies they currently have listed on the O-A website.  Originally, that was not going to be the case.

 

My follow-up question I posed to them -- which they have not answered as yet -- is whether or not the government's permission to Pacific Cross also extended to all the other insurers listed on the O-A website, meaning, are all of their policies also available now provided they meet the minimums.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sheryl]

No policies listed in the longstay.tgia website

 

Only companies listed.

 

You can get any policy that any of those companies will issue you that meets the 400/40 requirement.

 

Not that this yields much to choose from. As yoy will see on the "cheat sheet" none of these companies enrol people aged 75 and above and some don't enrol past 65. Others drop coverage at age 70 or so.

 

From the info currently available only Pacific Cross and maybe LMG would insure until age 99 (none insure for life) and the others all cut iff coverage around age 70-75.

 

But note info is still unavailable from some companies. And it renains unclear whether insurance from companies not listed, Thai or foreign, will be accepted.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[Exploring Thailand]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

No policies listed in the longstay.tgia website

 

Only companies listed.

 

You can get any policy that any of those companies will issue you that meets the 400/40 requirement.

 

I just wanted to check that you are aware that Pacific Cross offers more policies than those that you see when you follow the link from longstay.tgia. If you go to the menu you will find other policies which appear to meet the 400/40 requirement, though the 40 part is a little muddy.