Thai not English

[tgeezer]

An example of the use of ปล่อย from Longdo Dict (App) 

เมื่อเด็กนั้นมันไม่เชื่อฟังเราก็ต้องปล่อยนกปล่อยกามันตามยถากรรมแล้วกัน 

 

This must be broken down in order to be understood, it says. 

When children them, they not believe listen us, then (?) must release birds release crow  they must follow consequences already together..  

 

Some will be happy to add this to their experience and wait for other examples to see why มัน is there or why เรา is not (?) or how they might translate ปล่อยนกปล่อยกา or แล้วกัน but in this formม is it enough for you? 

 

 NB My italics. Also ปล่อยลูกนกลูกกา is another war of saying ปล่อนนกปล่อยกา 

 

I offer this for critical acclaim! 

When children wont listen then we must let it go, they must face the consequences and that’s an end of it. 

 

 

[rabas]

Thai not English, another example of how Thai often does not translate directly.  Here is my sense of the wording for what it's worth.

 

เมื่อเด็กนั้น – meua dek nan when those=นั้น (types of) children

มัน  –  man they(it) a negative way of saying 'they'.

ไม่เชื่อฟังเรา – mai cheua fang don't listen and believe us

ก็ต้อง well, – well, you must

ปล่อยนกปล่อยกา – idiom: let the birds fly away, forget them

มัน – they(it)

ตามยถากรรมแล้ว – will then(= แล้ว) take chances/risks.

กัน – on their own. (กัน= together, isolated)

 

I often hear people refer to a friend or relative as  มัน in their absence when they have done something wrong,  ซื่อบื้อ.

 

A short example of the use of man  คนนั้น มันไม่เชื่อ -- that person he does not believe.

 

[jackdd]

6 hours ago, rabas said:

ตามยถากรรมแล้ว – will then(= แล้ว) take chances/risks.

กัน – on their own. (กัน= together, isolated)

Imho it's split like this:

ตามยถากรรม - this is their fate/destiny

แล้วกัน - imho this doesn't have a specific meaning, but can have a variety of meanings. No idea what it means in this specific case, maybe something like "that's how it is"

 

For the complete sentence i would say:

When those children don't listen to us, then we just have to let them go (as in don't care about them), this is just their fate.

[tgeezer]

Thanks chaps, OK as far as it goes and I suspect that a native speaker might find what we say to be enough so humour me as I try to demonstrate how this example taken from the dictionary does nothing more than show how ปล่อย might be used. 

 

We have all concluded that เด็ก and มัน is plural, is that justified?  

Almost everything else said depends on this. 

I Know that we can establish the singular by using ลักษณนาม and ตัวเลข perhaps มัน is doing that.  

 

แล้วกัน Is defined in the RID, as jackdd has it. 

ปล่อยนกปล่อยกา is a verb meaning ปล่อยให้เป็นอิสระ (Set them/him/her free) . 

That’s it (แล้กัน) 

 

The topic is Thai not English so I was wrong to have offered a translation. 

 

 

I do not claim that the RID is up to date with modern parlance, in fact I know that it isn’t in some cases, but it is all I use and why I need input from others who do not rely upon it so heavily. 

 

I hope that some of the lurkers here who might be reluctant to comment because they feel unable to render English in Thai will see that there is no need to hold back, Thai is capable of translation but the average Thai likes to leave things to the imagination.  We must try to accept that so, come on boys let it all hang out. 

[rabas]

14 hours ago, jackdd said:

Imho it's split like this:

ตามยถากรรม - this is their fate/destiny

แล้วกัน - imho this doesn't have a specific meaning, but can have a variety of meanings. No idea what it means in this specific case, maybe something like "that's how it is"

I just asked my wife in Thai about the meaning of แล้กัน in this example (Thai is the house language). She said it is used similar to แล้วแต่เขา, laeo tae khao, 'up to them'. So same sense.

 

I agree there are often no direct translations between Thai and English, which reminds me of the distinction between translators and interpreters. At the UN they interpret, not translate.