Eea2 Residence Card For Non-eea Family Members Of An Eea National

[ayalgueru]

Hi ...

My wilfe have finally got my EEA family permit and we are back together to London. The family permit is valid for the standard 6 months so I have done my investigation and the right course of action is to apply for a residence card for her. For what I know we have to apply for an EEA2 residence , non permanent residence card for non-eea family members of a EEA national ).

She has got the form and filled it in , now we rung the home office help line to ask a couple of questions.

They said they can take up to 6 months to process it , is this the normal case for this kind of cards ? My understanding is that them grating it should be pretty much automatic since she is married to me ( partner EEA2 cards are more complicated since a lot more evidence is required ).

On the help line I have been told that if in the mean she needs her passport back for travelling or otherwise they can send it back in the meantime.

This is fairly annoying my wife is very fluent in english , had good work experience and she was hoping to be able to work , my undestanding is that the residence card is not a requirement but just help evidencing your right to work to potential employers.

Anyway it would all be more painful and complicated with having to to deal with the home office sending passport back and forth to potential employers and the same thing for us travelling. And god know how long would it take them to send her passport back should we need it urgently !

Should I brace myself and expect the 6 month wait ,, the woman on the help desk said they sometimes take shorter than that ..

Any experiences ,, regarding this .. thanks

[the scouser]

Under the relevant legislation, the Home Office must consider such applications within 6 months. In practice, they're currently taking about 5 months. However, immediately upon receipt of your wife's application, they must issue a certificate of application, and your wife may then use this for the purposes of obtaining employment etc.

You are right that your wife does not need to apply for a residence card, but failure to do so will mean that she needs to apply for a family permit at a British embassy abroad every time she wishes to return to the UK, whereas with a residence card, no further family permit applications are necessary.

It's a pain, but I'd bite the bullet and apply.

Scouse.

[ayalgueru]

immediately upon receipt of your wife's application, they must issue a certificate of application, and your wife may then use this for the purposes of obtaining employment etc.

I absolutely agree there is no other way but to apply for the residence card.

aha ok ,, thank you ,, that certificate would be very useful for employment purposes.

But what about for travelling ? she would surely need her passport for that wouldn't she ? I was planning to get back to spain for a holiday in july and we need her passport the shengen visa and all that malarky. The woman on the home office helpdesk line said they can send passports back for that ,, how long do they normally take to do something like that ? the whole dancing of passsports back and forth is a bit strange and unsettling to say the least. Also I do travel a lot from my own work which might be difficult if the plan to keep my passport for the next 6 months.

We had our family permit ( with 6 months in it ) half way throu our holidays in thailand , It means there is only 5 months left on her family permit .. would that be an issue ? it might be a stupid question not sure ,,, but I would really hate to come back to thailand for that 4 weeks.

thanks !

[the scouser]

I'd give them at least a week in which to return a passport. If, approaching the date of travel, you have heard nothing, contact the Home Office, explain that you are due to go to Spain to visit family, and ask that they urgently consider the matter. If the worst comes to the worst and you have to travel without the residence card, your wife's current family permit might be valid for her return to the UK. Failing that, she would have to apply for a new one at the British embassy in Madrid.

Scouse.

[mataleo]

curent waiting time for EEA2 is 6 months, means she cant work legal, after she get EEA2 she can work, and come back to uk, Its all same for me, as I am polish, and will apply for EEA3 (permanent resident), i have to wait 6 months to, but i dont need work permit, thats her problem

i am going to marry soon my thai gf so doing a lot research to

[londonthai]

eea family permit is enogh to start work as soon as she lands in the UK, yet before applying for he NI number or opening her own business/self employment

[pilgrim2505]

Current processing times for Residency permits from EEA Family permits are 12 months + so I suggest setting up a bank account prior to applying so passport is in hand.

When in receipt of confirmation of application letter from the home office it stipulates that you may work and there is a note for employees on the letter.

I would pre plan all bank applications prior to arrival to the UK and as a matter of interest Natwest were the only high street branch that would offer a debit card for my wife even though my choice would have been Nationwide as its free to withdraw money overseas.

[Aika1984]

Hi

Can anybody tell me what application form should non EEA family member of EEA (who's nationality is LAtvian) use when applying for UK residency? My husband has applied under EEA2, but it was rejected b/c I (EEA family member) am self-employed here in UK less then 1 year. We moved here in may of these year. And we can't apply under FMRS, b/c i can't be registered in WRS. I talked with an adviser on help line but any way they say to me that we need to apply under EEA2.

Can anybody please help us by giving advice what to do for extending stay of my husband here?

My husbands visa is ending soon and i'm tottaly lost now. I don't know what to do.

Many thanks in advance.

[Eff1n2ret]

Hi

Can anybody tell me what application form should non EEA family member of EEA (who's nationality is LAtvian) use when applying for UK residency? My husband has applied under EEA2, but it was rejected b/c I (EEA family member) am self-employed here in UK less then 1 year. We moved here in may of these year. And we can't apply under FMRS, b/c i can't be registered in WRS. I talked with an adviser on help line but any way they say to me that we need to apply under EEA2.

Can anybody please help us by giving advice what to do for extending stay of my husband here?

My husbands visa is ending soon and i'm tottaly lost now. I don't know what to do.

Many thanks in advance.

Presumably the advisor confirmed that unless/until you've been working here for a year your husband doesn't qualify for a residence card, as per this from the EEA2 application form:-

"15 FAMILY MEMBERS FROM THE ACCESSION STATES (this

part applies only to applications for a residence card)

If your family member (spouse) is a national of one of the 8

relevant Accession States i.e the Czech Republic, Estonia,

Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia or Slovenia

(Cyprus and Malta are exempt), and you are not yourself an

EEA national, you will not be eligible for a residence card

unless your family member has completed 12 months’ continuous

lawful employment in the United Kingdom and is

eligible for a registration certificate."

You haven't stated your husband's nationality or how long he's been in the UK, or what sort of visa he has at the moment, so it's difficult to suggest how he might extend his stay here.

Alternatively, if he stays on and keeps his head down until next May, the fact that he's then here illegally will not disqualify him from an EEA2 application.

[Aika1984]

Hi

Can anybody tell me what application form should non EEA family member of EEA (who's nationality is LAtvian) use when applying for UK residency? My husband has applied under EEA2, but it was rejected b/c I (EEA family member) am self-employed here in UK less then 1 year. We moved here in may of these year. And we can't apply under FMRS, b/c i can't be registered in WRS. I talked with an adviser on help line but any way they say to me that we need to apply under EEA2.

Can anybody please help us by giving advice what to do for extending stay of my husband here?

My husbands visa is ending soon and i'm tottaly lost now. I don't know what to do.

Many thanks in advance.

Presumably the advisor confirmed that unless/until you've been working here for a year your husband doesn't qualify for a residence card, as per this from the EEA2 application form:-

"15 FAMILY MEMBERS FROM THE ACCESSION STATES (this

part applies only to applications for a residence card)

If your family member (spouse) is a national of one of the 8

relevant Accession States i.e the Czech Republic, Estonia,

Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia or Slovenia

(Cyprus and Malta are exempt), and you are not yourself an

EEA national, you will not be eligible for a residence card

unless your family member has completed 12 months' continuous

lawful employment in the United Kingdom and is

eligible for a registration certificate."

You haven't stated your husband's nationality or how long he's been in the UK, or what sort of visa he has at the moment, so it's difficult to suggest how he might extend his stay here.

Alternatively, if he stays on and keeps his head down until next May, the fact that he's then here illegally will not disqualify him from an EEA2 application.

Thank you very much for your reply. That might be one of the ways how to stay, but his passport is ending next year in august and his application for EEA2 might be then rejected b/c of that reason There is an embassy of Armenia in London but if he will try to extend his passport when he will be illigaly here they will just deport him.

My husbands nationality is Armenian. He has EEA family member permit here. On homeoffice help line advisers tell me all the time that i need to apply under EEA2 i'm trying to tell them that i can't, b/c of the reason that im less then 1 year here and my nationality is Latvian and as far as i'm self-employed can't register under FMRS. I told them as well we have made already EEA2 application and sent to homeoffice and it was rejected.Adviser told me to apply for WRS and wait for letter for that application to be rejected and send that letter with new EEA2 application form so they will be sure that i can't be registered in WRS. I was trying to say they anyway can't rejected that application one more time b/c less then 12 month employment.

I was searching information about extending the visa. It says that we have to pay approximatly 500 pounds to extend the visa, but when were appliying outside of UK we didn't pay anything b/c family members of an EEA do not have to pay for visa. Also it's written to extend the visa spouse has to be permanent residing in UK. I don't have permanent residency card b/c it is not necesary to have that if you are EEA nationality.

Please could help and say how can we extend my husbands stay?

Many thanks in advance.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Aika1984

[Eff1n2ret]

If I may say so, I don't believe you've had very good advice from the "home office helpline". What they have told you is correct for employees, not for self-employed people from the group of countries that joined the EU in 2004.

If, and only if, you are genuinely self-employed, you don't need to register under the Workers Registration Scheme. You should, however, have registered yourself as self-employed with HM Revenue and Customs. If they have recognised you as self-employed, and you can produce accounts which show that you are trading as self-employed, you should be able to apply for a Residence certificate for yourself, and a Residence Card for your husband without waiting for one year. These are not "visas" granted under UK Immigration Rules, but simply documents recognising your rights under EU Law, and you should not have to pay for them.

In my opinion your whole case depends on how genuine is your claim to be self-employed, and whether you are recognised as such by the tax people. If you've done things properly, you should be able to get your applications for yourself and your husband accepted straight away under EU law. But I think you should probably consult a properly qualified immigration lawyer before doing anything else.

There is nothing illegal about your husband extending his Armenian passport in London, even if he doesn't have permission to stay here, and the Armenian authorities have no power to "deport" him from the UK, nor is it their duty to report him to the Home Office. Also, whether or not his Family Permit has expired, if you are in one way or another a "qualified person" to remain in the UK under EU law, either as a "worker" (employee) or "self-employed", there is no way your husband can be arrested for any immigration offence, because he will not be an "overstayer" as defined under Section 24 of the Immigration Act 1971. So the worst that can happen to him is that no employer will give him a job until he has a Residence Card - but if you're running your own business he could always work for you!

So even if you can't get things sorted out straight away and his Family Permit expires,and you don't want to pay a lawyer, don't worry, because nothing very terrible is going to happen to you.

[Aika1984]

If I may say so, I don't believe you've had very good advice from the "home office helpline". What they have told you is correct for employees, not for self-employed people from the group of countries that joined the EU in 2004.

If, and only if, you are genuinely self-employed, you don't need to register under the Workers Registration Scheme. You should, however, have registered yourself as self-employed with HM Revenue and Customs. If they have recognised you as self-employed, and you can produce accounts which show that you are trading as self-employed, you should be able to apply for a Residence certificate for yourself, and a Residence Card for your husband without waiting for one year. These are not "visas" granted under UK Immigration Rules, but simply documents recognising your rights under EU Law, and you should not have to pay for them.

In my opinion your whole case depends on how genuine is your claim to be self-employed, and whether you are recognised as such by the tax people. If you've done things properly, you should be able to get your applications for yourself and your husband accepted straight away under EU law. But I think you should probably consult a properly qualified immigration lawyer before doing anything else.

There is nothing illegal about your husband extending his Armenian passport in London, even if he doesn't have permission to stay here, and the Armenian authorities have no power to "deport" him from the UK, nor is it their duty to report him to the Home Office. Also, whether or not his Family Permit has expired, if you are in one way or another a "qualified person" to remain in the UK under EU law, either as a "worker" (employee) or "self-employed", there is no way your husband can be arrested for any immigration offence, because he will not be an "overstayer" as defined under Section 24 of the Immigration Act 1971. So the worst that can happen to him is that no employer will give him a job until he has a Residence Card - but if you're running your own business he could always work for you!

So even if you can't get things sorted out straight away and his Family Permit expires,and you don't want to pay a lawyer, don't worry, because nothing very terrible is going to happen to you.

Thank you very much for your answer. Probably uou are righ nothing terrible will happen, but i really want everything to be right.

The problem is that im self- employed dentist. I do not have bussiness. I work on a company as a dentist, but i am self-employed

I'm registered with HM&Revenue as self-employed, i do have accountant as well. In EEA2 application form they ask for evidence of self-employment: bank statements,invoices, inland revenue self assesment forms, evidence of tax and NI contributions being paid, accountants letter. I have sent bank statements, invoices from dental laboratories, evidence of NI contributions being paid, accountants letter, where is written that i'm self-employed. In my covering l wrote that as far as i'm less then 1 year here i can't provide inland revenue self-assesments forms and evidence of tax being paid. All this i told to adviser on help line. He was suprised and any way said try again.

I will try to get an advice from lawyers as well.

I have tryed once. I was told to send EEA2 to form.

Thank you very much for your help.

If you will have any other ideas what can be done on this matter please let me know i will be very thankful to you

[Eff1n2ret]

What you have posted suggests that you have done everything correctly, and UKBA made an incorrect decision because they failed to distinguish between a genuine self-employed EEA national from one of the "A8" countries, and an employed worker from one of those countries, who needs to be enrolled on the Workers Registration Scheme (which means they have to serve 12 months before a family member can qualify for a Residence Card).

It looks to me as if the EEA2 form is correct. It doesn't cost you anything to make an application, and if it was me I would not go to the expense of paying a lawyer. Just apply again, with all the evidence you have listed, and a covering letter pointing out that you are a self-employed person with an absolute right of residence under the EEA Regulations, quoting Para 3 of their own Casework instructions as found on this page:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteconte...pdf?view=Binary

State that you are not required to enrol on the Workers Registration Scheme, and there is therefore no qualifying period for your husband to be issued with a Residence Card as an EEA Family Member.

Very good luck to you. We need all the dentists we can get. Don't worry, as I said to you before, even if your husband's family permit is out of date, he can not be treated as an "illegal".

[orchidofsiam]

Going back to the original topic regarding the length of time to process an application and how to have your passport returned I hope that this may be of interest.

As it is a fact that the UK Border Agency fails to comply with the law in particular Directive 2004/38 which has been transposed into UK law through the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 (SI 2006/1003) which states that third country national family members must be issued with a residence card no later than six months after application in Article 10, (they routinely take about a year.)

In theory the UKBA is obliged to pay damages for failure to comply. The usual practice of UKBA is to settle and issue the residency card immediately it receives a 'Letter of Intent' to prosecute. This is normally achieved by instructing a solicitor to contact them using a 'no win, no fee' agreement which is otherwise known as a Conditional Fee Agreement (CFA). The requirement to pay damages is established by the Francovich principle named after a case of that name.

To claim damages you must list the financial losses you have suffered such as inability to gain employment, loss of consortium etc. If you cannot demonstrate loss then you are very unlikely to find a legal professional who will take on your case as the compensation would not cover their fees.

The UKBA has no right to 'decide' applications they are merely obliged to issue a document which evidences the existence of a right.

The UKBA will return your passports within 10 days of you informing them of your travel plans. In an emergency (travel in less than 10 days) they can be called on 08450105200 and they will ask for proof of the emergency. The E-mail address for return of passports required in more than 10 days is [email protected]

Requesting a passport to be returned will not speed up the application.

[Aika1984]

Thank you very much for your help and support. I will have a consultation with laywer on saturday so she will see documents and tell me if there will be anything wrong. I will let you know what the income of our case will be

[Aika1984]

Going back to the original topic regarding the length of time to process an application and how to have your passport returned I hope that this may be of interest.

As it is a fact that the UK Border Agency fails to comply with the law in particular Directive 2004/38 which has been transposed into UK law through the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 (SI 2006/1003) which states that third country national family members must be issued with a residence card no later than six months after application in Article 10, (they routinely take about a year.)

In theory the UKBA is obliged to pay damages for failure to comply. The usual practice of UKBA is to settle and issue the residency card immediately it receives a 'Letter of Intent' to prosecute. This is normally achieved by instructing a solicitor to contact them using a 'no win, no fee' agreement which is otherwise known as a Conditional Fee Agreement (CFA). The requirement to pay damages is established by the Francovich principle named after a case of that name.

To claim damages you must list the financial losses you have suffered such as inability to gain employment, loss of consortium etc. If you cannot demonstrate loss then you are very unlikely to find a legal professional who will take on your case as the compensation would not cover their fees.

The UKBA has no right to 'decide' applications they are merely obliged to issue a document which evidences the existence of a right.

The UKBA will return your passports within 10 days of you informing them of your travel plans. In an emergency (travel in less than 10 days) they can be called on 08450105200 and they will ask for proof of the emergency. The E-mail address for return of passports required in more than 10 days is [email protected]

Requesting a passport to be returned will not speed up the application.

Thank you very much it is very useful information

[johnnort]

Ayalgueru, take note. You stated that you travel often. If your wife were to take up employment within the UK, or not, and you departed the country, alone, on one of your tours, then she would be in the UK unlawfully, I believe. The non EEA spouse of an EEA National Visa states that the spouse has to travel with the EEA National or the EEA National must be in the UK for the spouse to enter the country. Therefore she cannot be left alone in the UK. I believe this to be true, but but please confirm with government office.

[Aika1984]

Eff1n2ret thank you very much for giving me link with European Casework instruction. I'm intended to print them and send with my husbands application form and i will highlight the information that is relevant to us. I hope they want be angry if i will do so. Otherwise i'm affraid they will reject again.

Recently i have seen a level 3 immigration adviser and she told me to extend my husbands visa using FLR (O) application form.

But if under EA law we do have rights to stay and reside here why than we have to pay for visa?

I hope this time application will be succesful.

Eff1n2ret again thanks a lot.

[londonthai]

If your wife were to take up employment within the UK, or not, and you departed the country, alone, on one of your tours, then she would be in the UK unlawfully, I believe.

technically yes, but the emmigration at the port of entry never does check it