Building a House in Issan

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Cashboy said:

I would think the best way to insulate the roof is by laying insulation in the roof on top of your gypsum boards.

Again; SCG, Diamond and Dura all supply and can be bought in places like Global House, Thai Watsadu and Do Home.

 

I have been told it makes a big difference in keeping the rooms below cool and saves a lot of money on air conditioning.

 

I used 10 cm x 5cm x (1.5mm gauge) steel to support the ceiling gypsum boards.

 

My intention is to use the rolls of insulation on the gypsum board between the steels and then put cement boards (2.4m x 1.2m) on top of the steel so that I can use the roof for storage and maintenance.

 

 

 

 

 

 That is a very strong ceiling. I think when you put insulation on the ceiling it will make a big difference.

I have the cement tiles , and I don't feel any heat radiating from the attic , into the house.

I noticed you did not have any vents in your soffits (overhangs), 

and I am not sure if you have any ridge vented tiles . You would need them both, otherwise you cannot initiate a convection cycle in the attic;

A convection cycle works as follows

Air in the attic is heated ,and as hot air does, it rises and escapes from the ridge vents, only to be replaced by outside cooler air from the lower soffit vents, which itself is heated and rises , escapes from the ridge vent and is again replaced from the soffits. 

    Insufficient ridge vents , gable vents and/or soffit vents disrupts that cycle , creating an oven affect.

I had Perforated soffits as you can see above. If you don't have them they can be retrofitted.

    And designed the roof in such a way that I have gable vents at the peaks.

You cant see them yet because they were not installed yet but that's the best picture I could find.

They look something like this

I dont think you have gables in your roof, but if you dont have vented ridge vents, some of your ridge tiles can be replaced with vented such as this, 

or an extractor fan, something like this

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by sirineou

[Cashboy]

27 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 

I noticed you did not have any vents in your soffits (overhangs), 

 

and I am not sure if you have any ridge vented tiles . You would need them both, otherwise you cannot initiate a convection cycle in the attic;

A convection cycle works as follows

Air in the attic is heated ,and as hot air does, it rises and escapes from the ridge vents, only to be replaced by outside cooler air from the lower soffit vents, which itself is heated and rises , escapes from the ridge vent and is again replaced from the soffits. 

    Insufficient ridge vents , gable vents and/or soffit vents disrupts that cycle , creating an oven affect.

 

 

I had Perforated soffits as you can see above. If you don't have them they can be retrofitted.

    And designed the roof in such a way that I have gable vents at the peaks.

You cant see them yet because they were not installed yet but that's the best picture I could find.

They look something like this

 

I dont think you have gables in your roof, but if you dont have vented ridge vents, some of your ridge tiles can be replaced with vented such as this, 

 

or an extractor fan, something like this

 

 

You are correct.

I have virtually no ventilation into the roof and that is a concern for me as in no idea what the effect will be.

Especially as the idea was not to use only fans in the rooms and not airconditioning  (though I have wired up the house for 4 air conditioning units and will certainly install one).

 

The only ventilation I have at the moment is:

Through the plastic grills to prevent birds getting into the roof under the tile ends.

Through the small gaps in the soffit boards. 

 

Ideally my house should have ridge tiles with vents and the soffits with vents to get a circulation of hot air through the ridge tile vents.

 

I shall see if there is enough ventilation once the house is finished and go back to the drawing board if not.

 

The next house I build would have gables.  Much easier to construct the roof with regard to the steel work, less cuts (virtually none) of the tiles as no hips and also easier to ventilate with grills on each end of the gables.

 

 

 

 

 

[sirineou]

16 minutes ago, Cashboy said:

You are correct.

I have virtually no ventilation into the roof and that is a concern for me as in no idea what the effect will be.

Especially as the idea was not to use only fans in the rooms and not airconditioning  (though I have wired up the house for 4 air conditioning units and will certainly install one).

 

The only ventilation I have at the moment is:

Through the plastic grills to prevent birds getting into the roof under the tile ends.

Through the small gaps in the soffit boards. 

 

Ideally my house should have ridge tiles with vents and the soffits with vents to get a circulation of hot air through the ridge tile vents.

 

I shall see if there is enough ventilation once the house is finished and go back to the drawing board if not.

 

The next house I build would have gables.  Much easier to construct the roof with regard to the steel work, less cuts (virtually none) of the tiles as no hips and also easier to ventilate with grills on each end of the gables.

 

 

 

 

 

 See how it goes.

Easy to retrofit soffit and  ridge vent later.  

You could buy a couple of these for the soffits if you feel you need them. 

I am sure there are plenty of different styles at your local DIY store

and I am sure you can get vented ridge tiles to match the roof tiles you have,

  Though I would get those (ridge vented tiles) now, as the styles change, and even if the stiles dont change every firing lot comes out slightly different color.

Those extractor fans do a great job also and are relatively easy to install,  Make sure they cut the reflector foil under the vent!! don't laugh , I have seen them put a vent and then covet the opening with the reflector foil, 

Thinking about firing lots, also make sure you save some extra floor tiles, because you will never be able to get exactly the same ones if you ever need a repair, for the same reason as above.

They will look the same when you buy them but when you install them they will stick out like a sore thumb. 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by sirineou

[saengd]

Putting insulation on the gypsum boards in the ceiling will create a thermal barrier but unless you instal several feet of it, it will be defeated by the heat eventually. The rules for heat reduction in house roofs are to ventilate first, insulate second, if you start with insulation but without ventilation, it won't be successful.

 

The most common and best method to ventilate a roof space is to instal exhaust vents in either the gables or at the ridge line. Whichever you chose the exhaust vents must be supported by vented soffits at the eaves, the former is designed to evacuate hot air, the latter to introduce cool air below the hot air thus allowing the hot air to rise. Also, the size of the exhaust vents be the same as the sum total of the size of the soffit vents, if they are not the air flow is limited to the smaller of the two sizes. For example: if your gable end exhaust vents cover an area of two square metres and your soffit input vents cover only one square meter, your venting capability is limited to just one square metre. There are tables available on the internet that indicate the size of venting required, based on the size of your roof.

 

If you instal only gable exhaust vents without the corresponding eaves vents, the hot air in the attic will not evacuate, it will just sit there. It is likely that eventually, cooler air conditioned air from the living space will slowly be drawn through cracks into the attic and that will provide some air movement, you will however be losing air conditioned air in that respect.

 

Lastly, installing a thermostatically controlled exhaust fan can be beneficial, decent quality attic exhaust are readily available and the thermostatic switch can be borrowed from an air con unit or similar.

[saengd]

See below the slotted eaves boards that surround the underside of the eaves of my house, the purpose of them is to introduce cooler air into the roof void:

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, Cashboy said:

My intention is to use the rolls of insulation on the gypsum board between the steels and then put cement boards (2.4m x 1.2m) on top of the steel so that I can use the roof for storage and maintenance.

You need to be careful about thickness of the cement boards. 20mm will almost certainly be strong enough though very heavy cement board is relatively fragile so to support your weight needs to have either close spaced supports or thick boards

 

As this isn’t structural It’s one of the few places I would consider using plywood, as long as you use enough coats of Chandrite it’s unlikely to provide termites with lunch.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, saengd said:

Putting insulation on the gypsum boards in the ceiling will create a thermal barrier but unless you instal several feet of it, it will be defeated by the heat eventually.

If there were no changes in temperature in the roof area this would be correct. But there is so the insulation is effective in slowing down heating of the ceilings until night time when the area cools off. 
Is it as good as if there were ventilation? No

Is it as ineffectual as you suggest? No

Would adding ventilation help? Yes

would adding the ventilation make a big difference to ceiling temperature? That is a much less clear answer, and a definite maybe yes maybe no.

Edited October 31, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[saengd]

Just now, sometimewoodworker said:

If there were no changes in temperature in the roof area this would be correct. But there is so the insulation is effective in slowing down heating of the ceilings until night time when the area cools off. 
Is it as good as if there were ventilation? No

Is it as ineffectual as you suggest? No

Would adding ventilation help? Yes

We have 12 inches of foil bat type insulation in our attic, we also have ample ventilation and a radiant barrier - our ceilings are quite high and our roof is very high.

 

During April and May we can usually avoid using aircon. unless it is exceptionally hot, by around 4:30 we open our windows and doors and start to let heat out. By 6pm the stored heat from the CPAC roof tiles has started to radiate heat but by then the bat insulation has been defeated - some heat travels down the walls, some via the steel, neither of which are insulated in any way. Inevtiably, we use aircon. in the evenings and early night hours during the hot season. That heat transfer continues until about 3am. If we didn't have ventilation, that whole process would be accelerated

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You need to be careful about thickness of the cement boards. 20mm will almost certainly be strong enough though very heavy cement board is relatively fragile so to support your weight needs to have either close spaced supports or thick boards

 

As this isn’t structural It’s one of the few places I would consider using plywood, as long as you use enough coats of Chandrite it’s unlikely to provide termites with lunch.

I was thinking the same about the plywood. I am looking at the ceiling metal and it is massive. A 5/8s thick plywood would be adequate enough, easy to install, and lightweight,

 Attach to the metal with self tapping screws 

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

would adding the ventilation make a big difference to ceiling temperature? That is a much less clear answer, and a definite maybe yes maybe no.

More so Yes. than No  IMO.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, saengd said:

we also have ample ventilation and a radiant barrier -

If you have a radiant barrier correctly installed (cashboy has it in the pictures of his roof above) silver foil, shiny side down, directly under the tiles, you should be getting minimal heat radiating down. 
 

The storage heater effect of tile roofing is why we went for colorbond. Our ceilings are not significantly warmer than the walls or floors, we have either 75mm or 150mm insulation on the ceilings that is effective for heat and sound reduction.

[saengd]

18 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If you have a radiant barrier correctly installed (cashboy has it in the pictures of his roof above) silver foil, shiny side down, directly under the tiles, you should be getting minimal heat radiating down. 
 

The storage heater effect of tile roofing is why we went for colorbond. Our ceilings are not significantly warmer than the walls or floors, we have either 75mm or 150mm insulation on the ceilings that is effective for heat and sound reduction.

Colourbond is a whole different proposition entirely, if I had my time over again I would use it in an instant.

[rhodie]

Great post with lots of good information. You seem to have done well and the house looks good. I hope you have a wonderful time in it. Good luck.

[Jimlim]

Thanks for sharing Cashboy. I was planning to build my home here in Thailand in a couple of years. You reminded me what a nightmare it was for me in the US in 2005 that I built my dream home even with strict American building standards, and required building permit with government official inspecting each phase of the house, the contractors were never to be left unattended.  The contractor did not follow the architecture drawing and I had to get the Architect to visit the site to tell the contractor to make corrections. The list of issues were long as a nightmare that I won't do it again.  Unless you have a strong background as a contractor or builder, and sure you want to be in the house for a long time..

 

Your sharing this information really helps me to reconsider my circumstance and my options.  And I do enjoyed reading your progress and all the details. I just don't quite get the English measurements, since I grew up with inch, foot, and yard.

 

Quote

 

 

[sirineou]

22 minutes ago, Jimlim said:

I just don't quite get the English measurements, since I grew up with inch, foot, and yard.

If you google  "Meter to feet" or "Inch to CM" etc there is a quick conversion calculator.

I also have a hard time visualising the measurements. for instance if you were to say "12X10 room" I quickly know i't is a small room.  but if you say "3mX 3.5m"  I get confused. Easy but not exact, is 1m = about 3ft (1.3 y) so a two meter tall person would be about a six footer.(actually 6,5 ft)   but a quick way to visualise 

I hope this was helpful and did not confuse more.

  

Edited October 31, 2019 by sirineou

[cornishcarlos]

20 hours ago, MikeN said:

^ Nice view, but not too sure about that access ladder !

 

That's the security... Pull it up at night, job done ????

[Cashboy]

On 10/31/2019 at 8:55 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

You need to be careful about thickness of the cement boards. 20mm will almost certainly be strong enough though very heavy cement board is relatively fragile so to support your weight needs to have either close spaced supports or thick boards

 

As this isn’t structural It’s one of the few places I would consider using plywood, as long as you use enough coats of Chandrite it’s unlikely to provide termites with lunch.

I bought 12 No 2.4m x 1.2m cement boards 16mm thick.  They are sitting on steel joists with 60cm centres so can take a lot of weight.

[DJ54]

Cashboy Thanks for sharing your build with Forum Memebers. It came out very nice. 

 

Thanks to everyone’s input it helps me decide what to do on my house. House is completed. If some of you could give me ideas/comment on the pictures it would be appreciated. 

[Cashboy]

1 hour ago, DJ54 said:

Cashboy Thanks for sharing your build with Forum Memebers. It came out very nice. 

 

Thanks to everyone’s input it helps me decide what to do on my house. House is completed. If some of you could give me ideas/comment on the pictures it would be appreciated. 

 

 

You can buy bird grills. They are plastic strips (about 60cm long) with grills that will fit the contour of your roof tile so you need to go to your roof tile supplier with a tile or invoice with the tile you bought from them.

However they are placed and screwed in from the inside of the soffit so not sure if it is too late for you.

Regarding the amount of incoming air, you will notice that if the rooms are too hot.

I am hoping, like you that the roof tile contours with bird grills will be sufficient but doubt it, especially as their is no vent out.

 

1 hour ago, DJ54 said:

 

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Cashboy

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, DJ54 said:

Cashboy Thanks for sharing your build with Forum Memebers. It came out very nice. 

 

Thanks to everyone’s input it helps me decide what to do on my house. House is completed. If some of you could give me ideas/comment on the pictures it would be appreciated. 

It is always advisable for the roof tile opening to be sealed, they will certainly provide places for birds and lizards to nest in,  and NOT provide Attic ventilation since the Roof tiles are isolated from the attic space by the silver reflecting  foil,

The vents you showed in the picture above should be sufficient for your Soffits (ovehungs)  if you have not installed the soffits yet , there is material that have slots cut into them already for ventilation purposes. 

electrically powered vent are beneficial but not necessary, , as the air inside is heated it will expand and rise, the differential in pressure will evacuate some hot air , also the rising air will create a vacuum at the bottom near  the soffits, this void will be replaced with outside more dense air, which itself  will be heated rise , create a vacuum and Initiate what is called a convection cycle.

if you chose to install an electrically operated fan, a solar fan might be sufficient , bur a hardwired fan will probably be more robust. Since most of your electrical junction boxes are in the attic, hardwiring a fun should be no problem. Plug it in a Smart plug.  

 

they are WIFI enabled and you will be able to turn it on and off with you smart phone from anywhere in the world. also you can set timers to go on and off  at  certain times.

These Smart plugs are also great for convenience and security. you can plug in lights or a radio and turn  the lights or music on and of when you are not there ,making it look like the house is occupied.  Or turn the lights on before you arrive so that you don't come to a dark house. 

there are also Smart switches you can retrofit your conventional light switches to control ceiling lights. 

Be aware that some of your switches might be three way and you will need Three way smart switches.,

Good luck

Edited November 2, 2019 by sirineou

[GarryP]

While out and about today I saw some precast concrete panels which were being used as flooring for a restaurant. They were about 1cm thick and put on a metal frame. I am thinking that maybe I could use the same under the roof/the floor of the attic in my planned bungalow. Thin ceiling panels attached on the underside of the frame and these thicker concrete panels laid as a floor for the attic/under the roof on the top of the frame. It would be much lighter than pouring a new floor/ceiling (cheaper too), and provide better insulation than only suspending ceiling panels.

 

Thoughts?

    

[sometimewoodworker]

54 minutes ago, GarryP said:

While out and about today I saw some precast concrete panels which were being used as flooring for a restaurant. They were about 1cm thick and put on a metal frame. I am thinking that maybe I could use the same under the roof/the floor of the attic in my planned bungalow. Thin ceiling panels attached on the underside of the frame and these thicker concrete panels laid as a floor for the attic/under the roof on the top of the frame. It would be much lighter than pouring a new floor/ceiling (cheaper too), and provide better insulation than only suspending ceiling panels.

 

Thoughts?

    

I very much doubt the thickness, they sound exactly like the standard (very inexpensive but heavy) flooring boards that are in common use and they usually have a reenforced layer of concrete on top because Individually there not so strong, you will find them in every building supply yard and often you will see some cracked in the stack.

 

I've got an off-cut in our old house, from memory they maybe 3cm thick, certainly not 1cm.

[GarryP]

33 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I very much doubt the thickness, they sound exactly like the standard (very inexpensive but heavy) flooring boards that are in common use and they usually have a reenforced layer of concrete on top because Individually there not so strong, you will find them in every building supply yard and often you will see some cracked in the stack.

 

I've got an off-cut in our old house, from memory they maybe 3cm thick, certainly not 1cm.

I physically checked the thickness. They were as thick as the distance from the tip of my index finger to just short of the first joint which is approximately 1cm. They were screwed on a metal frame. No poured concrete on top.

[sometimewoodworker]

4 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I physically checked the thickness. They were as thick as the distance from the tip of my index finger to just short of the first joint which is approximately 1cm. They were screwed on a metal frame. No poured concrete on top.

The standard cheap boards are rough on one side, smooth on the other from the moulds, they have 5-6 reenforcement wires sticking out of the ends. At that thinness they were probably Shera wood or similar, so you need supporting beams under them at probably about 400mm spacing. 

[sirineou]

12 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I physically checked the thickness. They were as thick as the distance from the tip of my index finger to just short of the first joint which is approximately 1cm. They were screwed on a metal frame. No poured concrete on top.

Did you mean something like this?????

Difficult for as laymen to understand this precision measuring devices though I must admit people have being showing it to me all the time.

I don't think these boards will be good for walking on , without additional reinforcement.

 

[Cashboy]

Yep still building the house.

Here are some updated pictures

 

Putting the sewage system in:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;

 

 

 

[Cashboy]

Tiled the floors and sorted out the stair case:

[Crossy]

An executable attachment has been removed from an earlier post.

 

Please be careful what you include here, whilst what was posted probably wasn't hazardous it could have been.

 

[Cashboy]

Balcony railings (simple) and main doors of house entrance and office.

[Cashboy]

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

An executable attachment has been removed from an earlier post.

 

Please be careful what you include here, whilst what was posted probably wasn't hazardous it could have been.

 

That problem seems to be when I try to load a file from a USB memory stick in my PC.  I have to actually copy the files to the hard drive before I can attach them otherwise it tries to load an executable file.  I gather that is the USB software for saving files.

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Cashboy said:

That problem seems to be when I try to load a file from a USB memory stick in my PC.  I have to actually copy the files to the hard drive before I can attach them otherwise it tries to load an executable file.  I gather that is the USB software for saving files.

 

Not an issue, but please be careful. This stupid forum software has no protection.