Jomtien Condo Owners Sue For Sea View

[who]

Stop VT7 is beating his drum trying to convince us that he is worried about the beach. He is simply trying to protect his sea view. I don't blame him. On the other hand people are talking about map reading and map experts. Does it take a rocket scientist to understand the term mean sea level and that VT7 is only a hundred meters from MSL? In my humble view, the court will have no choice but to declare VT7 illegal. Will VT7 be knocked down? I seriously doubt it. This may drag out for years until the project is finished and people will eventually just give up and forget it.

The Thai must use "mean sea level" in a completely different way than it is used in English terms. MSL is a vertical measurement not a horizontal one.

Wikipedia states: MSL means the "still water level"—the level of the sea with motions such as wind waves averaged out—averaged over a period of time such that changes in sea level, e.g., due to the tides, also get averaged out. One measures the values of MSL in respect to the land. (The level {heigth} of the land).

I can only quess that they refer to the "shoreline" when the sea is at it average level.

Is Loei as beautiful as I think? and I think it is.

[ThaiBob]

....

The Thai must use "mean sea level" in a completely different way than it is used in English terms. MSL is a vertical measurement not a horizontal one.

Wikipedia states: MSL means the "still water level"—the level of the sea with motions such as wind waves averaged out—averaged over a period of time such that changes in sea level, e.g., due to the tides, also get averaged out. One measures the values of MSL in respect to the land. (The level {heigth} of the land).

I can only quess that they refer to the "shoreline" when the sea is at it average level.

Is Loei as beautiful as I think? and I think it is.

You are right that the MSL is a vertical measurement which is measured with respect to land but can be also represented as a horizontal line on a map.

[stopvt7]

Stop VT7 is beating his drum trying to convince us that he is worried about the beach. He is simply trying to protect his sea view. I don't blame him. On the other hand people are talking about map reading and map experts. Does it take a rocket scientist to understand the term mean sea level and that VT7 is only a hundred meters from MSL? In my humble view, the court will have no choice but to declare VT7 illegal. Will VT7 be knocked down? I seriously doubt it. This may drag out for years until the project is finished and people will eventually just give up and forget it.

The Thai must use "mean sea level" in a completely different way than it is used in English terms. MSL is a vertical measurement not a horizontal one.

Wikipedia states: MSL means the "still water level"—the level of the sea with motions such as wind waves averaged out—averaged over a period of time such that changes in sea level, e.g., due to the tides, also get averaged out. One measures the values of MSL in respect to the land. (The level {heigth} of the land).

I can only quess that they refer to the "shoreline" when the sea is at it average level.

Is Loei as beautiful as I think? and I think it is.

Here we go agin, miss informing and changing the meaning of a word and misrepresent of the facts!

mean sea level (MSL) halfway between high and low tide, used as a standard in reckoning land elevation or sea depths.

For the court accepted definition read the Mayors letter point 5 on page 3 defines "mean sea level"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a63164-

Then read Issue 9 "to fix the 200 meters measured from the construction control line according to the annexed map at the sea shore (now found on the map at MSL) that building of the following types are not permitted for construction"

Edited August 26, 2008 by stopvt7

[ThaiBob]

Stop VT7 is beating his drum trying to convince us that he is worried about the beach. He is simply trying to protect his sea view. I don't blame him. On the other hand people are talking about map reading and map experts. Does it take a rocket scientist to understand the term mean sea level and that VT7 is only a hundred meters from MSL? In my humble view, the court will have no choice but to declare VT7 illegal. Will VT7 be knocked down? I seriously doubt it. This may drag out for years until the project is finished and people will eventually just give up and forget it.

The Thai must use "mean sea level" in a completely different way than it is used in English terms. MSL is a vertical measurement not a horizontal one.

Wikipedia states: MSL means the "still water level"—the level of the sea with motions such as wind waves averaged out—averaged over a period of time such that changes in sea level, e.g., due to the tides, also get averaged out. One measures the values of MSL in respect to the land. (The level {heigth} of the land).

I can only quess that they refer to the "shoreline" when the sea is at it average level.

Is Loei as beautiful as I think? and I think it is.

Here we go agin, miss informing and changing the meaning of a word and misrepresent of the facts!

mean sea level (MSL) halfway between high and low tide, used as a standard in reckoning land elevation or sea depths.

For the court accepted definition read the Mayors letter point 5 on page 3 defines "mean sea level"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a63164-

Then read Issue 9 "to fix the 200 meters measured from the construction control line according to the annexed map at the sea shore (now found on the map at MSL)[/i] that building of the following types are not permitted for construction"

[/i]

Don't be so harsh and bite the poor poster's head off. He simply quoted a general definition of MSL from Wikipedia. As you pointed the defintion that only counts in this case is the Mayor's.

Since you are so concerned about misinforming and misrepresenting the facts, let's not misrepresent the quote from Issue 9. The unedited quote should be,

Then read Issue 9 "to fix the 200 meters measured from the construction control line according to the annexed map at the sea shore that building of the following types are not permitted for construction"

[stopvt7]

ThaiBob

Your statement "Does it take a rocket scientist to understand the term mean sea level and that VT7 is only a hundred meters from MSL?" Yes, everyone is in agreement on this point (actually about 103 meters).”

But, Issue 9 states "to fix the 200 meters measured from the construction control line according to the annexed map at the sea shore (at the sea shore is found on Issue 9 map at MSL) that building of the following types are not permitted for construction"

Read the map: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a62623-

Also ThaiBob

Your statement: Do you think the SC will overturn its lower Court and throw a Court ordered report and survey from an unbiased source out the window?

Yes! They done it before. Read the ending on the first Admin Supreme Court decision.

http://stopvt7.blogspot.com/search?updated...p;max-results=7

The court said: “Nevertheless, where No. 3 (8) under the Ministerial Regulation No. 8 (B.E. 2519) issued by the virtue of the Building Control Act B.E. 2479 amended by the Ministerial Regulation No. 9 (B.E. 2521) issued by the virtue of the Building Control Act B.E. 2479 prescribed that the 200 meter line measured from the construction control line shown in the map annexed to the Royal Decree promulgating the Building Control Act B.E. 2479 governing Tambol Bang Lamung, Tambol Nhong Plalai, Tambol Na Klue and Tambol Nhong Prue of Ampur Bang Lamung Chonburi Province B.E. 2521 on the seaside shall be restricted from constructing of any building exceeding 14 meter high from road surface. Therefore, if the Construction Permit No. 162/2007 dated 28 November 2006 granted by the Defendant No. 1 to the Defendant No. 2 should appear to be unlawful against the Ministerial Regulation thereto as being claimed by the ten plaintiffs, the Court of First Instance should have sentenced this point of being unlawful, i.e. the judgment shall be focused on the permission of construction the building exceeding height limit by the Defendant No. 2. Whilst the Administrative Court of First Instance ordered the provisional measure to cease construction before judgment, the building’s base rocks were built, the construction did not reach the height limit of 14 meter above the road surface. Where the Administrative Court of First Instance issued the order of provisional measure to effect temporary protection by ceasing the entire construction is, therefore, in excess of what reasonable under the circumstances.

The Supreme Court, therefore, gives an order to amend the order of the Administrative Court of First Instance. That the Defendant No. 2 shall cease the construction performed, under the Work Permit No. 162/2007 dated 28 November 2007, on the part exceeding 14 meter height. On a temporary basis until the Court has ordered otherwise.

Mr. Vorapoj Visarutpich

Judge of Supreme Administrative Court”

This look like the Rayong court and the so-called expert witness report revised the Supreme Administrative Court order. Who could an expert witness report not address this SAC order? It not nice to ignore SAC decision and lower court to throw it out of the widow!!

[stopvt7]

To keep you updated about our lawyer Surachai Trong-ngam read the below Bangkok post articles. In my conversation with Khun Surachai he said it seldom a lawyer has such a clear legal case as in write our appeal. The Thai regulation Issue 9 is very clear written.

We wait for the SAC decision.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/170808_News/17Aug2008_news08.php

Sunday August 17, 2008

Call to restrictlead mining in Kanchanaburi

Mining farm stares at another defeat

By Piyarach Chongcharoen

Environmental activists in Kanchanaburi said it was time the authorities used the Klity lead contamination case as a lesson to strictly control and regulate lead mining in the province. Following the Appeal Court's ruling on Thursday that the cash compensation being offered to eight residents of Lower Klity village who had suffered from lead poisoning be raised to 29.55 million baht, Pinan Chotirotseranee, chairwoman of the Kanchanaburi Conservation Group, said the Klity disaster has shown people how badly mining operations can impact on the environment and humans.

In the past, officials have always tried to protect the interests of miners and failed to compel them to comply with environmental regulations.

Mrs Pinan said authorities recently allowed another lead concentration firm, Kanchanaburi Exploration and Mining Co (Kemco), to continue its operations close to the Lead Concentrate Co's mine, which was ordered closed after the discovery of the Klity creek contamination.

Kemco has been contracted to extract over 60,000 tonnes of lead in one and a half years' time, or by April 3, 2009, said Mrs Pinan.

Allowing Kemco to continue with lead extraction in the area would only lead to the spillage of more lead into Klity creek, inevitably affecting people living downstream, she said.

For this reason, she called on concerned agencies not to extend Kemco's licence. If the mining activities are stopped, the forest around the mine would also recover from the contamination.

Right now, apart from the 14,989 tonnes of lead sediment in Klity creek, a forest area covering almost a hundred rai behind Kemco is also covered with lead sediment.

Klity residents have described the area as a ''lead sea''.

Surachai Trongngam, a lawyer from the Environmental Law for the Wants (EnLaw), noted that the Kanchanaburi Appeal Court's verdict marked a major development in the consideration of environmental cases by Thai courts.

The court based its ruling on financial damage, opportunity loss, and the health of pollution victims.

The court raised the compensation of each of the eight residents to between three and 3.8 million baht.

Surapong Kongchantuk, director of the Karen Studies and Development Centre, said after the ruling that Lead Concentrates (Thailand) Co will have to toughen its defence in court in another case involving 151 other affected residents who are demanding over one billion baht in compensation from the company, if it hopes to win the case.

Mr Surapong said taking legal action against violators of environmental laws would help improve environmental conditions in the country, as it would set a precedent for other investors.

******************************

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=122272

Residents file pollution complaint with court

JAKKRIT CHAIYARIN

Rayong _ Residents of Map Ta Phut have filed a complaint with the provincial administrative court against Deputy Prime Minister and Industry Minister Kosit Panpiemras and the National Environment Board for failing to declare Map Ta Phut a pollution control area.

In their complaint lodged on Monday, 27 representatives of people living in 11 pollution-affected communities accused the NEB and Mr Kosit, the board chairman, of negligence of duty.

Declaring the tambon a pollution control zone would require the government to contribute more resources to solving pollution problems in the area.

Surachai Trongngam, who led the residents group and represents the Environmental Law Centre, an independent law group, said the complaint was lodged to protect the rights of residents who were exposed to toxic chemicals released from factories in Map Ta Phut.

The group asked the court to inquire whether the agencies responsible had taken any steps to tackle the pollution, as they were required to do by law.

He was confident that evidence submitted to the court showed that the NEB and Mr Kosit were negligent in their duties.

''Our main evidence is the results of scientific inquiries and recommendations from the Pollution Control Department, which state clearly that Map Ta Phut areas have pollution problems, particularly air pollution,'' he said.

The department had forwarded its recommendations to the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry, which had agreed that Map Ta Phut should be declared a pollution control zone, he said.

''The ministry later handed the recommendations to the NEB.

''However, the NEB resolved on Jan 11 this year not to declare the area a pollution-control zone as recommended,'' said Mr Surachai.

The representatives submitted to the court the findings of a study by the National Cancer Institute, which found the incidence of respiratory disease and lung cancer in the Map Ta Phut area was significantly higher than in other areas in the country.

Suthi Atchasai, coordinator of the Eastern People Network, said a number of residents of Map Ta Phut suffer from respiratory ailments and cancer, but their plight had been ignored.

Our appeal is an environmental legal question at the Supreme Admin Court!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a62618-...d-compair-v2-En

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a62769-

Edited August 31, 2008 by stopvt7

[ThaiBob]

Construction continues (pic taken 2 days ago); I am told they are on about the 20th floor.

[prospero]

Construction continues (pic taken 2 days ago); I am told they are on about the 20th floor.

Quite an erection.

But many erections do not last.

[ThaiBob]

Construction continues (pic taken 2 days ago); I am told they are on about the 20th floor.

Quite an erection.

But many erections do not last.

(LOL) Quite true, but this one is made from concrete and steel.

[ripley]

Any ideas on how recent events in Bangkok may affect the business of the Supreme Admin. Ct.??

[jpm76]

Construction continues (pic taken 2 days ago); I am told they are on about the 20th floor.

Thanks for the photo ThaiBob. It seems they are full steam ahead there, so I am pleased to hear that.

[OhdLover]

Construction continues (pic taken 2 days ago); I am told they are on about the 20th floor.

Quite an erection.

But many erections do not last.

The V in VT stands for viagra.

Edited September 3, 2008 by OhdLover

[stopvt7]

Dear OhdLover / ThaiBob

Your statement “The V in VT stands for viagra.” Viagra wears off and then the erection falls.

In this case the Admin Supreme Court will knock VT erection to 14 meters!

[prospero]

Dear OhdLover / ThaiBob

Your statement "The V in VT stands for viagra." Viagra wears off and then the erection falls.

In this case the Admin Supreme Court will knock VT erection to 14 meters!

What impact will the accident at VT3 have on VT7????

[Pattaya46]

In this case the Admin Supreme Court will knock VT erection to 14 meters!

You can still dream of it, but nothing will happen now. Too late.

What impact will the accident at VT3 have on VT7????

No accident in VT3, then no impact in VT7

[OhdLover]

Dear OhdLover / ThaiBob

Your statement "The V in VT stands for viagra." Viagra wears off and then the erection falls.

In this case the Admin Supreme Court will knock VT erection to 14 meters!

I wish I was as eloquent as ThaiBob... but I am not. So thanksfor mixing him up with me.

[ripley]

Does anyone have an accurate source to what actually happened? Was there a construction collapse? Or was it a building which collapsed? Were people killed? Was it a VT project? Was this all a confusion or a rumour? Can't find out anything about it on the net and the thread on the subject has dried up. Who knows anything?

Also - still wondering how events in Bangkok are affecting the activities of the courts.

Edited September 5, 2008 by ripley

[ThaiBob]

Does anyone have an accurate source to what actually happened? Was there a construction collapse? Or was it a building which collapsed? Were people killed? Was it a VT project? Was this all a confusion or a rumour? Can't find out anything about it on the net and the thread on the subject has dried up. Who knows anything?

Also - still wondering how events in Bangkok are affecting the activities of the courts.

Lots of speculation and inaccuracies but only one newspaper article I've seen. This was a construction site accident adjacent to View Talay 3. The construction is of a 5* hotel so it appears this is not a View Talay project. The accident occurred when concrete was being poured on the second floor. NO deaths; 5 injures but how serious?

http://www.pattayadays.com/

http://www.pattayaone.net/news_04_09_51.html

[highway]

Does anyone have an accurate source to what actually happened? Was there a construction collapse? Or was it a building which collapsed? Were people killed? Was it a VT project? Was this all a confusion or a rumour? Can't find out anything about it on the net and the thread on the subject has dried up. Who knows anything?

Also - still wondering how events in Bangkok are affecting the activities of the courts.

was told by a person who was near the site at the time the second floor collapased, and it was the new view talay under construction on soi 4 pratumnak hill.

it will be interesting to see if view talay have the power to push this one under the carpet, i mean everyone knows they use cheap materials on the interior but if there doing this with the structure,would you really want to risk your life?

[thebounder]

My staff tell me that the collapse was at a new building close to Pattaya Park that is due to become a Hotel Ibis.

[ThaiBob]

Does anyone have an accurate source to what actually happened? Was there a construction collapse? Or was it a building which collapsed? Were people killed? Was it a VT project? Was this all a confusion or a rumour? Can't find out anything about it on the net and the thread on the subject has dried up. Who knows anything?

Also - still wondering how events in Bangkok are affecting the activities of the courts.

was told by a person who was near the site at the time the second floor collapased, and it was the new view talay under construction on soi 4 pratumnak hill.

it will be interesting to see if view talay have the power to push this one under the carpet, i mean everyone knows they use cheap materials on the interior but if there doing this with the structure,would you really want to risk your life?

Sorry to disappoint all the View Talay pundits and naysayers but as we learn even more about this incident it had nothing to do about View Talay or VT3 or VT5 or VT7.

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000007139

[ripley]

Wow. That rumour really grew and distorted. The thread I read had a report of as many as 50 people trapped in the building and 5 killed.

I was keen to know what actually happened because the news was so scanty for such a major occurrance. But the fact that my interest in VT involvement & possible cover-up kinda overshadowed my interest in the tragedy of the workers - very poor people with no funds or backup to cover injuries - means I need to sit back and re-organize my priorities.

[lookat]

ThaiBob

The “POOR CONSTRUCTION BEHIND THE BUILDING COLLAPSES IN PATTAYA” is part of the VT group. Their original business is hotels and vt is building this hotel

I been told the hotel construction company is their own company and the same which is building vt7.

Have you been to the construction sight? You get their by passing threw the entre gate to vt3.

[ripley]

Pattaya Daily News reports accident was at the construction site of the Ice Hotel at Pratumnak Rd. Soi 6, Moo 12, Nongprue.

Pattaya Daily News also reports it was a 5 storey apt. construction site "in front of Soi 18 Chalerm Aakiet Rd., Central Pattaya.Builder L.K. Co. or Leng Kee Plaza.

5 injured, one person reported dead.

Hold on! just googled "pattaya condo construction collapses".

What's the problem in a straight report on a construction accident?

Edited September 6, 2008 by ripley

[ThaiBob]

ThaiBob

The “POOR CONSTRUCTION BEHIND THE BUILDING COLLAPSES IN PATTAYA” is part of the VT group. Their original business is hotels and vt is building this hotel

I been told the hotel construction company is their own company and the same which is building vt7.

Have you been to the construction sight? You get their by passing threw the entre gate to vt3.

stopVT7/lookat, your "facts" have always been questionable. Some people try to twist this sad story to their advantage. Remember the reports that VT3 had collapsed and there were at least 50 deaths or injuries. People should accept this terrible accident on face value and hope that lessons learned (pouring cement unevenly) will save lives and injuries in the future. An updated link:

http://www.pattayaone.net/news_06_09_51.html

[prospero]

Thanks for the link, Thai Bob.

Perhaps it would be good for City Hall to call a 30 day stoppage on construction of View Talay 7. They've been pouring cement like there's no tomorrow -- rushing to beat out the Administrative Court decision.

I'm sure you'd feel much safer if you knew the floors were evenly spread.

[ThaiBob]

....

I'm sure you'd feel much safer if you knew the floors were evenly spread.

Thanks for your concern. I am confident they will spread the concrete evenly just like VT1, VT2, VT3 (that's the one you claimed had an accident), VT5, and VT6.

[stopvt7]

Dear ThaiBob OldLover

Your comment (pouring cement unevenly) or form the news article “however when cement was placed on the second floor of the construction, it was not evenly spread and the weight is thought to have collapsed the structure”. Is a bunch a BS!

I sent my summer and vacation from the age of 16 working in construction and at a concrete plants. They are pouring this concrete so wet that the “slump” is so high it flows like water. It can not pile up enough to cause a collapse. So don’t try to BS use about the collapse.

Also, today after work stared, at 8:55 AM a large tuck came to VT7 building sight carrying about 30 plus workers. I bet it came from their other construction sight which was close for 30 days?

ThaiBob OldLover you need to get back on subject!

[beginner]

Dear ThaiBob OldLover

Your comment (pouring cement unevenly) or form the news article "however when cement was placed on the second floor of the construction, it was not evenly spread and the weight is thought to have collapsed the structure". Is a bunch a BS!

I sent my summer and vacation from the age of 16 working in construction and at a concrete plants. They are pouring this concrete so wet that the "slump" is so high it flows like water. It can not pile up enough to cause a collapse. So don't try to BS use about the collapse.

Also, today after work stared, at 8:55 AM a large tuck came to VT7 building sight carrying about 30 plus workers. I bet it came from their other construction sight which was close for 30 days?

ThaiBob OldLover you need to get back on subject!

Hello VT7/lookat.

Can anyone now use your name?

Clearly the above post was made by someone other than the person/persons/committee that has made the previous incomprehensible garbled, illiterate postings under your various names.

Keep it up. It makes for much easier reading.

[OhdLover]

Dear ThaiBob OldLover

Your comment (pouring cement unevenly) or form the news article "however when cement was placed on the second floor of the construction, it was not evenly spread and the weight is thought to have collapsed the structure". Is a bunch a BS!

I sent my summer and vacation from the age of 16 working in construction and at a concrete plants. They are pouring this concrete so wet that the "slump" is so high it flows like water. It can not pile up enough to cause a collapse. So don't try to BS use about the collapse.

Also, today after work stared, at 8:55 AM a large tuck came to VT7 building sight carrying about 30 plus workers. I bet it came from their other construction sight which was close for 30 days?

ThaiBob OldLover you need to get back on subject!

Wow.. did Thaibob start the news about this collapse????? NO!!! YOU, Mr. StopVT7 must have too much cement in your brain.

As far as I can read, ThaiBob just corrected some speculation from another forummember, who changed the news and wrote that VT3 collapsed.

This is another example of your disability to read, interpret, and distinguish facts from whatever your brain/cement is coming up with.

<snip>

Edited September 7, 2008 by Crow Boy
removal of personal insult