Gulf War veteran, 55, was killed by a single punch from a bouncer in Thailand who claimed he tried to leave go-go bar without paying his bill

[dabhand]

18 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Yeah, it looked odd to me too. (the angle of the hand and the way it was thrown). I have seen sovereign rings on "bouncers" here routinely. Could be some kind of knuckleduster.

Comments from both UK medical experts and coroner made no mention of anything other than the injury being related to a punch. If such instruments of violence, as noted in your post, had been used I would expect there to have been clear evidence of that from the injury sustained and would have been mentioned in the coroner proceedings. and, if so, highlighted in the press reports.

[kingofthemountain]

8 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

There are very rich Chinese tourists, that you don't see them is another thing.

yep, nobody can see them

they are all hidden in the TAT office

[kingofthemountain]

5 hours ago, IslandLover said:

It is a report of the Inquest in the U.K. into the man's death.  That's why it's in the news now.  Inquests are held several months (and in some cases years) after a person's death.

Yes i understand

but still does not explain why the ''news'' is presented like it has happened yesterday evening

[jacko45k]

41 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Yes i understand

but still does not explain why the ''news'' is presented like it has happened yesterday evening

Well hardly The Mandarin has been gone a good while. A UK reporter hanging around where the inquest occurred, printed the story and scrapers around the world picked it up. Tragic really.

[Mark mark]

I Think ! ? I am not sure of the exact facts, but in Australia now, well at least parts of it, like in the states of Victoria and South Australia at least ... I think, ... that you CAN be charged with Murder, if you just hit a person with one Punch, and they die. ? ... And I think that several people have been given some pretty stiff sentences for doing it already. .... Even though it was not intended by them, and also, very Bad Luck when their victim Died, ... after only One Punch. ... The Problem often being ... I Think ? …  That they just got knocked out, … But hit their heads on the concrete, when they hit the ground ... and this is what killed them ! ? .....

 

I wonder what the effects of being very drunk would have on the Head damage, of a good direct Head Hit ? ... (I have seen that being stoned on Marijuana, actually helps head Trauma Victims, and helps them a LOT ! Lie k they have studied the figures of Drugs tested Road accident victims with Head injuries, and other Head Trauma victims and the ones who fail the marijuana test, have had a lot LOT Higher survival rate than those who do not apparently, ! ?) ....

 

Still for me, ... When the Scum Bag, Bouncer, fooled me, by asking me to "Just step back" ! ...So I politely did … and he just used the extra distance, to get a run up, and push me the rest of the way across the Footpath where I fell and rolled  under a parked Car, ... being very drunk, seemed too relax me, ? … and I seemed to just bounce !!! … And I was not hurt, from the way I felt when I landed. ? ...

 

...  But I wonder how being pretty drunk, affects your Brain damage, ....  If you are just King Hit ? … Or, you hit your head on the concrete when you land ? ...

 

Basically, whatever you all say or argue about, this, was just a very VERY sad situation, …  That this more them likely usually, very good man Died ! ...

 

…  I do not think that Thailand is less safe than any other Place .... I think that most likely it is MUCH safer than Most !!! .... Like in Melbourne Victoria they had SEVERAL pretty Innocent Men (Just bloody well Drunk) Killed by one Punch knock downs in a year ! Which sparked the Law Changes ! ... But well, the Powers to be still make money out of selling Alcohol,  and for a long while they were just looking for excuses to sell more, to already drunk people, ... just to make MORE Money out of it ! ... And Ditto the <deleted> about extending the Closing times, to attract more tourists here in Thailand ! ....

 

Alcohol itself ! And Alcohol fueled Violence ... Usually amongst men, and well, they sometimes DIE ! …. and well for some, dangerous and embarrassing collapses or Mistakes by Woman, … like walking through a un-occupied building sight with a Thai man hay they do not even know, ...  very VERY late at Night, … or Losing most of  their cloths and All, of their money and passports in Van Veng Laos etc. …. or getting on the back of his Motor cycle of an Unknown man in Ko Tao ? Or Pahgan ?  Wasn’t it ? .... And she VERT sadly ! lost her life also …

 

…. Alcohol and its abuse ! Buy the Users, … and those making the money off of it is the REAL problem here. Not Thailand … Or well the Bouncers, …They are just there waiting for you, ... what state you are in, and how you treat or Deal with them, is just up to you ! ? I think.   … I usually do, do all right ... but in the case of the one that took advantage of me was. … It was the Alcohol that basically caused the whole thing really I think. …  And nearly always is I think. … Just ask any Night Nurse in any casualty department in the world I guess ! ? 

[friend of siam]

On 11/1/2019 at 8:56 AM, WhatupThailand said:

NO, he was doing a Reaction Blocking move, in Defense.

 

Also, Bill Scams are carried out by Restaurants without entertainment,

as I and my Thai wife can attest to, being victims of such a scam by a Seafood Restaurant

in Bangkok. They make it plain, that you will suffer if you do not pay.

Best course is to Haggle with the manager, pay and get a receipt, and use as evidence,

for Legal gamble later.

 

thats why i always ask first the price before and order..the places i eat all prices are marked clearly..if the y dont or refused to tell u run fast

[Rimmer]

Off topic travel promotion rant removed, please do not hijack the topic.

[Just Weird]

16 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

If u was trading places with the victim than perhaps ur family would understand what u don’t seem to understand.

This is what I understand: 

1.  The victim was assaulted with one punch only during a fight after he left a go-go bar. 

 

2. The bouncer then was charged with assault but cleared claiming self-defence.   The assault case is then over.

 

3.  The victim was treated, returned home to his business but, tragically, ten months later he died with the British coroner alleging his death was partly as a result of the punch but he was unable to conclude unlawful killing (ten months after the case against the bouncer's court case had concluded).

 

I understand that his wife is upset, as I or my family would be in a similar situation, but legally nothing more can be done now, neither was anything legally done incorrectly at the time.  Disagreeing with the judges opinion given at the time of the bouncer's case (if that's what you think I should be 'understanding') is beside the point ten months later.

 

Subjective emotions aside, what do you understand to have happened?  If I have misunderstood the events, and how the law was implemented, I'd be happy to be corrected with empirical evidence.

[yogi100]

5 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Their is proof the tourist was drunk, missed hay maker. The guys who makes the wild accusation based on nothing needs to proof that his statement is true.

You started on this line of conversation by asking "Where is your proof the bouncer was drugged up?"

 

Throwing a hay maker or punching the air is not proof that someone is drunk!

[yogi100]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

Roid rage is a myth (alcohol makes people far more aggressive then steroids)  and the Thais did not look like muscle heads. Please if you don't know something its better not to display your ignorance. Cocaine you might be right I have no clue never used it. 

"Roid rage is a myth".

 

Are you really serious!

[FruitPudding]

They realy should have shown more restraint and professionalism, but I suppose it is Pattaya.

 

If it had occured in the West, he'd probably have been tazed by the cops if the bar called them for not paying bill.

 

No need for Thai bashing

[Nyezhov]

He who throws the first punch.

[Destiny1990]

36 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

This is what I understand: 

1.  The victim was assaulted with one punch only during a fight after he left a go-go bar. 

 

2. The bouncer then was charged with assault but cleared claiming self-defence.   The assault case is then over.

 

3.  The victim was treated, returned home to his business but, tragically, ten months later he died with the British coroner alleging his death was partly as a result of the punch but he was unable to conclude unlawful killing (ten months after the case against the bouncer's court case had concluded).

 

I understand that his wife is upset, as I or my family would be in a similar situation, but legally nothing more can be done now, neither was anything legally done incorrectly at the time.  Disagreeing with the judges opinion given at the time of the bouncer's case (if that's what you think I should be 'understanding') is beside the point ten months later.

 

Subjective emotions aside, what do you understand to have happened?  If I have misunderstood the events, and how the law was implemented, I'd be happy to be corrected with empirical evidence.

I understand that he was punched without good reasons and certainly it wasn’t self defense. Why these thug bouncers did not simply hold the customer and calling for the tourist police??

I assume his bill was padded since the victim even tried calling for the alarm number.

Very rarely scammers are calling the tourist police.

So Bouncers in jail and bar should be closed for 6 months and pay fines and medical treatments. 

[Just Weird]

6 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

48 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

This is what I understand: 

1.  The victim was assaulted with one punch only during a fight after he left a go-go bar. 

 

2. The bouncer then was charged with assault but cleared claiming self-defence.   The assault case is then over.

 

3.  The victim was treated, returned home to his business but, tragically, ten months later he died with the British coroner alleging his death was partly as a result of the punch but he was unable to conclude unlawful killing (ten months after the case against the bouncer's court case had concluded).

 

I understand that his wife is upset, as I or my family would be in a similar situation, but legally nothing more can be done now, neither was anything legally done incorrectly at the time.  Disagreeing with the judges opinion given at the time of the bouncer's case (if that's what you think I should be 'understanding') is beside the point ten months later.

 

Subjective emotions aside, what do you understand to have happened?  If I have misunderstood the events, and how the law was implemented, I'd be happy to be corrected with empirical evidence.

I understand that he was punched without good reasons and certainly it wasn’t self defense. Why these thug bouncers did not simply hold the customer and calling for the tourist police??

I assume his bill was padded since the victim even tried calling for the alarm number.

Very rarely scammers are calling the tourist police.

So Bouncers in jail and bar should be closed for 6 months and pay fines and medical treatments. 

So when you asked me what it was that I didn't understand, I actually did understand everything correctly!

 

"I understand that he was punched without good reasons and certainly it wasn’t self defense".

Well, that's not an "understanding", it's just your opinion about something that you didn't witness.

 

"I assume his bill was padded since the victim even tried calling for the alarm number".

Why assume that when it has never been confirmed anywhere?

 

"So Bouncers in jail..."

Why?  He was cleared of the charge made against him!  

Even if he hadn't been cleared, does assault carry a mandatory jail sentence?

[dogfish180]

On 11/1/2019 at 12:24 AM, sanemax said:

There is such a thing as "acting in self defence" ,  they have that law in every Country

Doesn't look very much like self defence in the video. All I can see is the bouncer running toward him and throwing a flying head punch.

[robblok]

8 hours ago, dogfish180 said:

Doesn't look very much like self defence in the video. All I can see is the bouncer running toward him and throwing a flying head punch.

First the foreigner throws a haymaker punch an misses a bit later the Thai hits back and connects. So Id say self defense or at least the Thai did not throw the first punch (according to video evidence not speculation)

 

The tourist escalated it a few times.

 

First if we believe there was a problem with the bill he should have sorted it out with police not walk off. (escalation)

Then throwing a punch that did not connect (escalation)

 Does that make it ok what the Thais did.. no but it certainly gets closer to self defence, does show that both parties were involved and both are to blame to a varying degree.

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 5:32 PM, yogi100 said:

You started on this line of conversation by asking "Where is your proof the bouncer was drugged up?"

 

Throwing a hay maker or punching the air is not proof that someone is drunk!

For an army vet it is

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 1:19 PM, kingofthemountain said:

yep, nobody can see them

they are all hidden in the TAT office

I see hundreds of them an a daily basis.

[sunnyboy2018]

As we know the Mandarin is a Go Go bar not a bar as reported in the DM. I know the Mandarin and Im sure it featured in a story, about 4 years ago, about two foreigner girls, maybe  Canadian, who got into a row about their bar bill. I dont know if they were roughed up but one was kept at the bar and not allowed to leave until her friend returned from their hotel with the money they owed. To prevent this issue always check your bill every round of drinks. Its that simple. Never, never leave without paying. That is a criminal offence. Thai security staff dont fight people unless highly goaded, insulted and threatened. Its very rare in WS and always you will find some bolshie, semi racist tourist who is causing trouble and deserves a slap. Staff rarely pad bills. They dont need to. Happy punters spend loads of money.

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

As we know the Mandarin is a Go Go bar not a bar as reported in the DM. I know the Mandarin and Im sure it featured in a story, about 4 years ago, about two foreigner girls, maybe  Canadian, who got into a row about their bar bill. I dont know if they were roughed up but one was kept at the bar and not allowed to leave until her friend returned from their hotel with the money they owed. To prevent this issue always check your bill every round of drinks. Its that simple. Never, never leave without paying. That is a criminal offence. Thai security staff dont fight people unless highly goaded, insulted and threatened. Its very rare in WS and always you will find some bolshie, semi racist tourist who is causing trouble and deserves a slap. Staff rarely pad bills. They dont need to. Happy punters spend loads of money.

Actually WS use to quite violent, and if anyone stepped out of line they got a bashing, then i say about 3-5 years ago, authorities tightened up, IF security assaults any patron, club gets closed down for a period of time. Recall Lucifer, where security roughed up from memory Israeli guy? got closed down for (again from memory) for about 1 year.

[sunnyboy2018]

On 11/2/2019 at 11:02 AM, Destiny1990 said:

I understand that he was punched without good reasons and certainly it wasn’t self defense. Why these thug bouncers did not simply hold the customer and calling for the tourist police??

I assume his bill was padded since the victim even tried calling for the alarm number.

Very rarely scammers are calling the tourist police.

So Bouncers in jail and bar should be closed for 6 months and pay fines and medical treatments. 

Suppose he did not want to be held and struggled and swore at the staff. He's ex British Military not a ballet dancer. Tough and full of himself, probably. The bill was not padded. They rarely are in WS. Usually tourists over order, buy lady drinks etc then refuse to pay because they think they are superior to Thai staff and think they can bully their way out of it. The Brits are the worse because they are not used to bar tabs...When they dont get asked for money every round they think the staff have forgotten, they think they have a avoided being charged, order more drinks then try to escape having no idea how tough and resilient tiny Thais are.

[sanemax]

16 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Suppose he did not want to be held and struggled and swore at the staff. He's ex British Military not a ballet dancer. Tough and full of himself, probably. The bill was not padded. They rarely are in WS. Usually tourists over order, buy lady drinks etc then refuse to pay because they think they are superior to Thai staff and think they can bully their way out of it. The Brits are the worse because they are not used to bar tabs...When they dont get asked for money every round they think the staff have forgotten, they think they have a avoided being charged, order more drinks then try to escape having no idea how tough and resilient tiny Thais are.

You really should state that you just made that whole scenario up, otherwise some people will think that that is what happened 

 

 

 

[yogi100]

22 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Suppose he did not want to be held and struggled and swore at the staff. He's ex British Military not a ballet dancer. Tough and full of himself, probably. The bill was not padded. They rarely are in WS. Usually tourists over order, buy lady drinks etc then refuse to pay because they think they are superior to Thai staff and think they can bully their way out of it. The Brits are the worse because they are not used to bar tabs...When they dont get asked for money every round they think the staff have forgotten, they think they have a avoided being charged, order more drinks then try to escape having no idea how tough and resilient tiny Thais are.

I'm a 'Brit' and neither myself nor any of my friends have ever had any serious problems understanding how the tab system works. It's simple, you pay when you leave instead of paying as you go, we all understand something as simple as that.

 

We're actually quite bright and several successful nations have even adopted our language.

 

The fellow who was assaulted in this topic was a well travelled individual who was unlikely to not have understood the system either.

[Kadilo]

26 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

I'm a 'Brit' and neither myself nor any of my friends have ever had any serious problems understanding how the tab system works. It's simple, you pay when you leave instead of paying as you go, we all understand something as simple as that.

 

We're actually quite bright and several successful nations have even adopted our language.

 

The fellow who was assaulted in this topic was a well travelled individual who was unlikely to not have understood the system either.

Don’t take the bait ????

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

As we know the Mandarin is a Go Go bar not a bar as reported in the DM.

Was... closed some time back, maybe a year ago. I think it is back under the name 'Rich' now. 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

On 11/3/2019 at 10:34 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

Suppose he did not want to be held and struggled and swore at the staff. He's ex British Military not a ballet dancer. Tough and full of himself, probably. The bill was not padded. They rarely are in WS. Usually tourists over order, buy lady drinks etc then refuse to pay because they think they are superior to Thai staff and think they can bully their way out of it. The Brits are the worse because they are not used to bar tabs...When they dont get asked for money every round they think the staff have forgotten, they think they have a avoided being charged, order more drinks then try to escape having no idea how tough and resilient tiny Thais are.

Quite the imagination you got there ???? 

 

????????

[Rimmer]

Some off topic posts removed

[kingdong]

On 11/3/2019 at 4:03 PM, yogi100 said:

I'm a 'Brit' and neither myself nor any of my friends have ever had any serious problems understanding how the tab system works. It's simple, you pay when you leave instead of paying as you go, we all understand something as simple as that.

 

We're actually quite bright and several successful nations have even adopted our language.

 

The fellow who was assaulted in this topic was a well travelled individual who was unlikely to not have understood the system either.

I,m well travelled too but cannot understand why after refusing every request for "you buy drink for me " and refusing you end up with 7 unordered lady drinks on your bill.

[kingdong]

On 11/3/2019 at 3:34 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

Suppose he did not want to be held and struggled and swore at the staff. He's ex British Military not a ballet dancer. Tough and full of himself, probably. The bill was not padded. They rarely are in WS. Usually tourists over order, buy lady drinks etc then refuse to pay because they think they are superior to Thai staff and think they can bully their way out of it. The Brits are the worse because they are not used to bar tabs...When they dont get asked for money every round they think the staff have forgotten, they think they have a avoided being charged, order more drinks then try to escape having no idea how tough and resilient tiny Thais are.

Suppose,perhaps maybe,probably-------

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I,m well travelled too but cannot understand why after refusing every request for "you buy drink for me " and refusing you end up with 7 unordered lady drinks on your bill.

You get it for being a bit gormless and not watching your tab!

But seriously, I don't see this much. Biggest problems are 'I go dance now' immediately, or a vixen moving between a number of guys and drinks. Or the old feeding frenzy when a mug appears to be buying for all and sundry. Doesn't happen to me..... (but still get tabs I wish were less).