'Thatcherism on steroids' - Corbyn says of Johnson's Brexit plans

[transam]

12 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

if I was a UK citizen, thanks God I am not, I would not know who to trust but surely not BJ

 

8 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

if I was a UK citizen, thanks God I am not, I would not know who to trust but surely not BJ

If you are not a UK citizen, tell me why, as a foreign bloke, you do not trust Boris...Take your time now....????

[evadgib]

40 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

if I was a UK citizen, thanks God I am not, I would not know who to trust but surely not BJ

How up to speed are you re your own?

[tebee]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Well if Johnson is "Thatcher on Steroids" then Corbyn is the "Spawn of Stalin"!

 

Corbyn wants to go back to the spiteful Socialist Workers Party ideas of the 70's - smash capitalism, smash the UK's culture and traditions; smash it's Christian European heritage; indoctrinate the young; punish the middle class; make everyone equal but some more equal of course; redistribute wealth how he thinks it should be - spend people's money how he thinks it should be spent; flood the country with immigrants to facilitate social upheaval and irreversible change; stab British overseas territories in the back, regardless of what their people want; strangle free enterprise with over burdening bureaucracy and taxation; neuter the police even more with increased political interference; control media and forbid dissent.

 

Should he get elected, expect even more ultra left ideological polices to suddenly emerge. The aim will be to change the country and constitution.

 

 

But this is the inherent problem with first past the post politics - you either end up with 2 main parties trying to occupy the same center space or two parties occupying the extreme wings. In the latter case the only thing the electorate can do is elect a hung parliament were neither party holds an overall majority . Unfortunately in our system these tend to be unstable.  

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

But this is the inherent problem with first past the post politics - you either end up with 2 main parties trying to occupy the same center space or two parties occupying the extreme wings. In the latter case the only thing the electorate can do is elect a hung parliament were neither party holds an overall majority . Unfortunately in our system these tend to be unstable.  

 

in a series of European countries an election result without 1 party having overall majority is considered

sound and healthy, forces cooperation in order to keep the machinery rolling

 

but of course, UK not considering itself part of Europe, Europe is somewhere you go on holiday,

you feel fit to do handle it differently - you use the missing majority as a means to clog up the machinery

 

not being a Brit Brexit is not extremely important to me, but interested I am,

cannot make up my mind - sometimes I feel its good to have UK (the unruly mob) in EU, as a brake on the wildest

federal ideas - on the other hand, UK is so odd that it would be pure relief if it vanished

[transam]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

in a series of European countries an election result without 1 party having overall majority is considered

sound and healthy, forces cooperation in order to keep the machinery rolling

 

but of course, UK not considering itself part of Europe, Europe is somewhere you go on holiday,

you feel fit to do handle it differently - you use the missing majority as a means to clog up the machinery

 

not being a Brit Brexit is not extremely important to me, but interested I am,

cannot make up my mind - sometimes I feel its good to have UK (the unruly mob) in EU, as a brake on the wildest

federal ideas - on the other hand, UK is so odd that it would be pure relief if it vanished

I am really glad you feel like that..

Me being English, am not surprised at your foreign view...And yes, I have had some nice holidays across the channel, but always glad to get back home...????

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, transam said:

 

If you are not a UK citizen, tell me why, as a foreign bloke, you do not trust Boris...Take your time now....????

because I am a EU citizen and we don't like the UK blokes like you & him....

[Mavideol]

15 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

on the other hand, UK is so odd that it would be pure relief if it vanished

there you said it... they are not part of the EU mainland, they are an island and should be let there

[transam]

Just now, Mavideol said:

because I am a EU citizen and we don't like the UK blokes like you....

Aaaaaah, but if we were not leaving the EU you would like me/us.....Trouble with folk like you is you don't like a country with balls, a country where the majority, after many years, saw what the EU was all about, not conducive to our way of life, plus being bossed about by foreigners.

We had enough of foreigners a couple of times last century, it ain't going to happen again via the back door.

 

But, you can still have your hols on the Cornish Riviera though.... ????

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

there you said it... they are not part of the EU mainland, they are an island and should be let there

 

4 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

there you said it... they are not part of the EU mainland, they are an island and should be let there

Envy will get you nowhere.....????

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Aaaaaah, but if we were not leaving the EU you would like me/us.....Trouble with folk like you is you don't like a country with balls, a country where the majority, after many years, saw what the EU was all about, not conducive to our way of life, plus being bossed about by foreigners.

We had enough of foreigners a couple of times last century, it ain't going to happen again via the back door.

 

But, you can still have your hols on the Cornish Riviera though.... ????

when you say "bossed about by foreigners..."" are you referring to the USA because that's what it looks like as for the country with balls, wonder which one it is, are you referring to Spanish bulls balls ....

[Mavideol]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

 

Envy will get you nowhere.....????

not familiar with such word, never been, never will, I have never envied anyone over anything but since you mention it, maybe you do/did

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

when you say "bossed about by foreigners..."" are you referring to the USA because that's what it looks like as for the country with balls, wonder which one it is, are you referring to Spanish bulls balls ....

Noooo, the USA ain't in the EU..............????

[Mavideol]

Just now, transam said:

Noooo, the USA ain't in the EU..............????

only a matter of opinion

[transam]

Just now, Mavideol said:

not familiar with such word, never been, never will, I have never envied anyone over anything but since you mention it, maybe you do/did

Again a nooooo for you. Plus a...............????

[RuamRudy]

37 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

there you said it... they are not part of the EU mainland, they are an island and should be let there

Don't close the door on us! We Scots will be chapping on it in a couple of years. 

[tebee]

1 hour ago, transam said:

I am really glad you feel like that..

Me being English, am not surprised at your foreign view...And yes, I have had some nice holidays across the channel, but always glad to get back home...????

And of course we can be proud our political system is work so well just now........

[transam]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

And of course we can be proud our political system is work so well just now........

MP's are individuals, just like you and me, sadly at this time regarding Brexit they are thinking of themselves and not us lot, think most of the populace knows that, they also know about the dodgy "speaker". Thankfully we now have a new speaker, a new beginning..

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, tebee said:

And of course we can be proud our political system is work so well just now........

It's ok tebee, "the trash in parliament is beginning to take itself out."

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Don't close the door on us! We Scots will be chapping on it in a couple of years. 

never my friend.... you guys are special for me, never considered you on the same boat as the other ones (you know which ones 555)

[Mavideol]

34 minutes ago, transam said:

MP's are individuals, just like you and me, sadly at this time regarding Brexit they are thinking of themselves and not us lot, think most of the populace knows that, they also know about the dodgy "speaker". Thankfully we now have a new speaker, a new beginning..

omg and now is the speaker's fault, royal screw up by the conservatives but all the dodgy speaker

 

(btw, I like conservatives just don't like the ones like BJ, Mogs, Cummings, Jarvid and the other one can't remember his name) I do like Hammond

[tebee]

27 minutes ago, transam said:

MP's are individuals, just like you and me, sadly at this time regarding Brexit they are thinking of themselves and not us lot, think most of the populace knows that, they also know about the dodgy "speaker". Thankfully we now have a new speaker, a new beginning..

But that is how it's supposed to work. MP are people, they vote as such, according to what they consider to be best for their constituents, although they are allowed to consider the party line and the wishes of their constituents. We elect them as individuals,  not slaves to party or voters.

 

They in turn elect the executive, but they are still individually obliged to hold that executive to account.

 

The problem we have now is the tribal divide in parliament is different to the tribal divide in the voters . Populism has driven the executive down one track, but the MP have taken a longer and wider view. The power struggle between the three branches of government   has caused the current stalemate. Whether a GE will fix this I don't know, we are in uncharted territory.

 

It's significant though,  that neither side of the brexit divide are happy with the way  our democracy is currently working ( or not in this case!)

  

 

 . 

[nauseus]

21 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

omg and now is the speaker's fault, royal screw up by the conservatives but all the dodgy speaker

 

(btw, I like conservatives just don't like the ones like BJ, Mogs, Cummings, Jarvid and the other one can't remember his name) I do like Hammond

Sounds about right.

[tebee]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

But that is how it's supposed to work. MP are people, they vote as such, according to what they consider to be best for their constituents, although they are allowed to consider the party line and the wishes of their constituents. We elect them as individuals,  not slaves to party or voters.

 

They in turn elect the executive, but they are still individually obliged to hold that executive to account.

 

The problem we have now is the tribal divide in parliament is different to the tribal divide in the voters . Populism has driven the executive down one track, but the MP have taken a longer and wider view. The power struggle between the three branches of government   has caused the current stalemate. Whether a GE will fix this I don't know, we are in uncharted territory.

 

It's significant though,  that neither side of the brexit divide are happy with the way  our democracy is currently working ( or not in this case!)

  

 

 . 

To expand on this more, Brexit has given licence for the executive to trade on a referendum result in order to bully parliament. Witness the efforts by government to pressure parliamentarians with a speedy legislative timetable or an insistence that Article 50 be triggered without a policy, plan or process.

 

British politicians use Brexit in order to treat voters as idiots. Politicians give unrealistic timetables, say things like Brexit is easy or that the UK holds all the cards. Even now, Boris Johnson is talking drivel by saying he won’t be extending the transition period. Many voters won’t fall his nonsense. Because voters are on the whole less politically literate than MP, is the exact reason MP are representatives not delegates.    

 

Brexit has been exceedingly damaging to the UK's political landscape. Firstly Brexit is damaging the devolved settlement. English politicians prioritise Brexit over the United Kingdom. The UK government has abandoned the Sewell Convention. A Northern Ireland border poll or Scottish independence referendum are both now  possible. Brexit is also stretching the resources of cash strapped local authorities.

 

Brexit has ended the careers of two prime ministers and two chancellors. Some voters now send hate mail, threaten violent against MPs because they disagree with their elected politicians. Online abuse and a new inflammatory political language of enemies, traitors and betrayal is the new norm. The rhetoric of the people vs parliament is not only damaging, but shows a misunderstanding of the function of parliament  - this is exactly what it is there for.  

 

When it comes to British politics, Brexit soils everything it touches.

[melvinmelvin]

21 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

 

When it comes to British politics, Brexit soils everything it touches.

 

yes agree,

and the fault is where?

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

yes agree,

and the fault is where?

 

Anywhere but with the Brexiteers.

 

It is, after all, always somebody else’s fault.

[billd766]

8 hours ago, Mavideol said:

if I was a UK citizen, thanks God I am not, I would not know who to trust but surely not BJ

If you were an elderly Brit as I am, you would have lived through quite a few Labour governments and have seen their results.

 

I would not like to see another one in my lifetime.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Mavideol said:

there you said it... they are not part of the EU mainland, they are an island and should be let there

Then let us go instead of holding on.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, transam said:

Aaaaaah, but if we were not leaving the EU you would like me/us.....Trouble with folk like you is you don't like a country with balls, a country where the majority, after many years, saw what the EU was all about, not conducive to our way of life, plus being bossed about by foreigners.

We had enough of foreigners a couple of times last century, it ain't going to happen again via the back door.

 

But, you can still have your hols on the Cornish Riviera though.... ????

Only if we let you have a visa though. ???? ???? 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

To expand on this more, Brexit has given licence for the executive to trade on a referendum result in order to bully parliament. Witness the efforts by government to pressure parliamentarians with a speedy legislative timetable or an insistence that Article 50 be triggered without a policy, plan or process.

 

British politicians use Brexit in order to treat voters as idiots. Politicians give unrealistic timetables, say things like Brexit is easy or that the UK holds all the cards. Even now, Boris Johnson is talking drivel by saying he won’t be extending the transition period. Many voters won’t fall his nonsense. Because voters are on the whole less politically literate than MP, is the exact reason MP are representatives not delegates.    

 

Brexit has been exceedingly damaging to the UK's political landscape. Firstly Brexit is damaging the devolved settlement. English politicians prioritise Brexit over the United Kingdom. The UK government has abandoned the Sewell Convention. A Northern Ireland border poll or Scottish independence referendum are both now  possible. Brexit is also stretching the resources of cash strapped local authorities.

 

Brexit has ended the careers of two prime ministers and two chancellors. Some voters now send hate mail, threaten violent against MPs because they disagree with their elected politicians. Online abuse and a new inflammatory political language of enemies, traitors and betrayal is the new norm. The rhetoric of the people vs parliament is not only damaging, but shows a misunderstanding of the function of parliament  - this is exactly what it is there for.  

 

When it comes to British politics, Brexit soils everything it touches.

It is the British politicians that have soiled everything, not Brexit.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Then let us go instead of holding on.

 

give me a b

 

UK is free to go, anytime she fancies, no one is holding on to foggy islands, except those who live there

 

but it does require a wee bit of grown up concerted action by your parliament