Money Transfers...

[RDN]

$50 for a wire transfer sounds expensive. I have used an Australian bank (National) to wire money to Thailand many times and it only cost me $25AUS. I think it pays to shop around as different banks have different fees.

G'day mate! You got a good deal there cobber:

Aus $25 = 710 baht

GBP £20 = 1480 baht

USA $50 = 2030 baht

[ProThaiExpat]

huski: The reason I asked Kevin about whether he was using a credit card or not was to establish whether he was making a "cash advance" with a lot of fees attached (he seemed to indicate otherwise) or a debit card with minor fees.

Those of us who were not wise enough to establish wire transfer privilges with our overseas banks before we came to Thailand, are searching for a way to bring in funds far in excess of an individual ATM/debit card daily limit.

[ProThaiExpat]

farangene: Bangkok bank staff likewise advised me that if I had a Visa or Mastercard debit card, they could do the debit transaction as you have described it. My ATM/'debit card is a card issued by my bank and has no such Visa or Mastercard logo on it, although it does work worldwide through every ATM.

I suspect Kevin's card is also a Visa or Mastercard debit card. Time will tell with his response.

[jmkiser]

Sounds like you fellows in fact do have some funny banking connections in your respective countries. My plan all along is to visit the local ATM every so often and pull out anywhere from a couple of hundred, to several hundred out of my bank in Alaska, and then deposit in my Thai Farmers account.

My plan when I relocate to Patong Beach area in October is to remain in Thailand by utilizing monthly visa runs to Ranong. They say it looks funny to Thai immigration, however my plan is to show them each time in re-enter Thailand (because I don’t qualify for a retirement visa because I’m five years shy of age) that my monies area in fact being spent in Thailand on housing, rents, food, household expenses, etc. Another person suggested that I save all of my ATM receipts, Tesco Lotus receipts, etc. and show them to immigration as well upon my monthly returns to Ranong.

Does anybody see anything wrong with this idea?

John

[PhillipJ]

$50 for a wire transfer sounds expensive. I have used an Australian bank (National) to wire money to Thailand many times and it only cost me $25AUS. I think it pays to shop around as different banks have different fees.

G'day mate! You got a good deal there cobber:

Aus $25 = 710 baht

GBP £20 = 1480 baht

USA $50 = 2030 baht

I should clarify that this is the standard bank fee for arranging a wire transfer in person at any brach in Australia, there may be additional fees if it is arranged through fax etc from another country. Not sure as i have not done this.

[lopburi3]

My plan when I relocate to Patong Beach area in October is to remain in Thailand by utilizing monthly visa runs to Ranong. They say it looks funny to Thai immigration, however my plan is to show them each time in re-enter Thailand (because I don’t qualify for a retirement visa because I’m five years shy of age) that my monies area in fact being spent in Thailand on housing, rents, food, household expenses, etc. Another person suggested that I save all of my ATM receipts, Tesco Lotus receipts, etc. and show them to immigration as well upon my monthly returns to Ranong.

Does anybody see anything wrong with this idea?

It should work now but for how long is an open question. Have the ATM receipts along with your bank statement so they know it is from an outside account in your name and you will probably not have a problem. But as you know things can change and various authorities can have different ideas.

[ProThaiExpat]

lopburi2, KevinN, et al: Sanity has returned to my bank in Hawaii. A different person e-mailed me today that they would wire money to me in response to a letter requesting that, covering certain points covered in their form.

I have requested a fax number if they would respond to that means of communication, as advised in this thread, and await a reply.

Many thanks for your help in this regard. Of course, I had already sent an account applicaton to First Internet Bank of Indiana when I got this e-mail. Will compare their wire fees.

[webrider]

For me, prior I left my country (France), I negociated free wire international transfert with my bank in exchange of which my salary remains paid in my french account. I don't know whether it is possible with all banks but in my case, they did not complain about it and accepted my request because it was a good way for them to get sure that my salary will not be paid to another bank. Whenever I need an international transfert and whoever the recipient, I just send a fax and the money flows within 3 days. May this help you...

[thaihome]

go the FIB route using Bangkok Bank's New York swift number.

You don't need to go through the Bangkok Bank's New York branch for the wire transfer. Use SWIFT code BKKBTHBK and it goes direct to Main Branch in Bangkok. Since my account is at main branch, I have seen money show up in 2 days (which is only 1 day with the time difference). For another branch account it takes about 3 or 4).

[thaihome]

lopburi2, KevinN, et al:  Sanity has returned to my bank in Hawaii.  A different person e-mailed me today that they would wire money to me in response to a letter requesting that, covering certain points covered in their form. 

I have requested a fax number if they would respond to that means of communication, as advised in this thread, and await a reply.

There is no doubt that US banks lag far behind most of the rest of world in the wire transfer department. You experience is similar to mine (before finding FIB) in that requests were refused ("We don't do that") until request is passed to someone that knows the right answer. My bank started doing the wire transfers (in person by a family member) but flatly refused to have them requested by fax.

Good luck.

TH

[Roger13]

Funds Transfer requests by Fax

could easily be forged.

Those Banks that accept them

have Passwords set up.

Roger

[lopburi3]

I have seen money show up in 2 days (which is only 1 day with the time difference). For another branch account it takes about 3 or 4).

The first three numbers of a Bangkok Bank account is the branch so it is in a branch account just as fast in my experience. If I call my bank Monday night our time the money will be available, per Bualuang Phone check, by Wednesday afternoon our time.

[Roger13]

Transfers from Debit Cards.

Here is my Experience.

It depends on the Card Issuer Overseas and the Bank in Thailand.

“Point of Sale” usually refers to Sale of Goods & Services by Merchants.

I have not heard of it being used for making a Transfer inside a Bank.

Abbey National Offshore, Jersey call them “Over the Counter.” Transactions.

“Over the Counter “ Limits are invariably much higher than ATM Cash Withdrawal Limits. They require the Card holder to Identify themselves with say their Passport a copy of which is attached to a signed withdrawal form that is sent to the Card Issuing Bank. ( I read here somewhere a suggestion that some Banks set “Over the Counter” Limits at the Balance on your account)

ATM machines have their own per transaction limits (usually Bht 20,000 – some banks have Bht 20,000 Fast Cash)

Visa International provides for Separate Limits to be set up by the Card Issuer.

1. Daily Cash Limits for Cash from ATMs,

2. Daily Cash Limits for “Over the Counter” Cash or Transfer and

3. “Point of Sale” Limit for Goods & Services.

UOB Radanasin Bank in Bangkok told me they do not process

“Over the Counter” withdrawals (either for Cash or Transfer)

- I must use the ATM.

At Standard Chartered Nakornthon, Bangkok I am able to make Transfers using a Visa Debit Card. My Visa Debit Card issued by Standard Chartered Jersey allowed me to Transfer from Jersey to Bangkok Bht 100,000 ($2,200) - I do not know what the Limit is.

Abbey National Offshore, Jersey do not have a higher “Over the Counter Limit” – it is the same amount as the ATM. In fact Abbey National will not even acknowledge that it is possible to set separate limits – I have had a long exchange of e-mails which resulted in referral to their “Internal Arbitrator” who merely quoted their Card Services Manager – that there was only one Daily Cash Limit irrespective of whether the Cash was drawn from ATM or “Over the Counter”

The Moral – To get the service you require - you have to carefully chose your Bankers in Thailand & Overseas

Roger

[ProThaiExpat]

Since I already have a secure internet link to my bank and can write checks on my account electronically, I could empty my account with one check written to another bank, etc.

Thus the secure link is in place. Having explained their refusal to divulge limits "due to security reasons" over this secure link, they relented and I have that information.

If they respond that fax is no good for "security reasons", why can't an e-mail in the secure link suffice for a request for a wire transfer, will be my next question.

They may want a signature on file for a wire transfer, who knows. Banks are so rigid in their systems, if one isn't already established, forget it.

I am thankful for thaime and FIB, as I will have them, assuming they open an account for me, as a backup. I would like to learn to trust them, as they do pay more on a money market account and they are FDIC insured. They even refer you to FDIC webpage for background on their financials.

I remember the swift code for Bangkok Bank in Bangkok and they have a wire transfer department in their main branch. They were able to retrieve a wire transfer document for me when I had wire transfer privileges with Charles Schwab. They charged $40 for wire transfers, which I had no objection to, it was the quarterly inactivity fee for keeping the account open that caused its closure.

[ProThaiExpat]

thaihome: A technical question? I have the handout from Bangkok Bank in front of me and they list the swift code you did but also a routing number "NYUABA0869"

I forwarded both numbers to Charles Schwab a couple of year ago and the money came through with no hitch. Do you know if they use both SWIFT and the Routing Number to get the money to the main branch in BKK or is the Routing Number used when New York is involved?

I don't know if the wire transfer office at the main branch got the wire through their New York office or whether it came direct?

[paulfr]

*******and the limit you can carry in is $10k *********

I believe this is incorrect. This is the amount you can carry in without

declaring it. I checked recently and both US and LOS have NO limit

on the amount you take either way as long as you clearly decare the amount.

JFYI

[ando]

I need some advice here guys. I suspect I am being ripped off.

The wife sent $6,000 Australian dollars to her daughters bank account by telegraphic transfer. The charge to send it here was $30 Australian.

The money arrived 6 days later in the daughters account. But $610 short of the full $6,000. (Well thats the daughters story, anyway). That would amount to a 10% bank charge in Thailand for accepting the money into the daughters account.

I have researched the exchange rate for that day as I have done in other transfers.

We have sent much smaller amounts in the past and been charged around 3% by the Thai bank.

The name of bank is the Krung Thai Bank.

Could this 10% Thai bank charge be correct?

[lopburi3]

I need some advice here guys. I suspect I am being ripped off

I suspect your are right.

Are you sure of the exchange rate? It changes about 4 times a day and is bank specific. Daughter should be able to obtain full paperwork listing all fees etc from the bank so you can check it. There also may be a fee in the intermediate bank making the transfer.

In my experience with Bangkok Bank from US is that their Representative office in US takes $5 off the top for processing and bank fee here is something like 1/2% but have not checked in a long time so could have changed. But not anything like 10%.

[lopburi3]

Have checked a US $9,000 transfer in April and the local charge could not have been more than about 1/4% from the listed telex transfer rate for that date.

[holm188]

I get charged between .45 and .35% by Krung Thai Bank depending on the amout.

Are you sure the 610 are AUS$ and not THB since at KTB it is probably in a THB account?

good luck.

[ando]

Have checked a US $9,000 transfer in April and the local charge could not have been more than about 1/4% from the listed telex transfer rate for that date.

RE the exchange rate, I use xe.com and x-rates.com . The rates they quote are the exact rates I was getting on my Citibank credit card in Thailand a month ago.

x-rates.com offers a offers a historic look up facility so you can go back and look up the exact rates on any given day.

Our bank here would have had to transfer the money at 10%below the going rate for that day for it to land in LOS $600 short. I will be going down the bank tomorrow to confirm what exchange rates they are using.

It appears the smaller amounts we have sent in the past (($2 to $300), have attracted a standard 300 baht fee at the Thai bank. Thats about 3.3%.

I suspect that either the daughter is ripping off her own Mum, or someone in the bank is committing a fraud. The money is for payment on a house we put a deposit on last month. Time is running out on the contract and we are due to send another $7,000 next week when a cheque clears back here.

So you see I am in a bit of a predicament. Pull out now, lose the deposit, and hope the daughter sends whats left of our $6,000 back. Or send the other $7,000 next week and watch another 10% disappear.

This is why I am so interested to hear if anyone else has been stung with a 10% telegraphic transfer DEPOSIT fee. Everything I have read on the various forums indicates the Krung Thai Bank has one of the lowest fee structures all round.

[ando]

I get charged between .45 and .35% by Krung Thai Bank depending on the amout.

Are you sure the 610 are AUS$ and not THB since at KTB it is probably in a THB account?

good luck.

I am sure about the $610. Definately not baht.

The daughter states she got only 150,300 baht instead of the expected 167,416 baht (less deposit fee). I was expecting a deposit fee of up to maybe a couple of thousand based on the smaller amounts sent previously, but certainly nothing like 17,000 baht!

[RDN]

I suspect I am being ripped off. The wife sent $6,000 Australian dollars to her daughters bank account by telegraphic transfer. The charge to send it here was $30 Australian. The money arrived 6 days later in the daughters account. But $610 short of the full $6,000. (Well thats the daughters story, anyway). That would amount to a 10% bank charge in Thailand for accepting the money into the daughters account. The name of bank is the Krung Thai Bank.

Could this 10% Thai bank charge be correct?

Definitely not correct! Your daughter hasn't got a nice new stereo, has she? But seriously, thanks for giving the "X-Rates.com" link.

I, too, use Krung Thai and have some example transfers for you to look at. I did some checking of the rate I got from Krung Thai vs. the rate that X-Rates.com shows for the day the transfer occurred. It makes for some very interesting reading!

At the beginning of 2002, I transferred £6,000 and £7,000 and got a rate of 60 when X-Rates says it was 61.8 and 61.7. So apart from the £34 cost of each SWIFT transfer, it also cost £207 and £227 in the poorer exchange rate. Total cost: £500 for a transfer of £13,000. (I could have saved £34 by doing just one big transfer).

Another example: At the end of 2003, two SWIFT transfers for £6,000 and £5,000 from a different bank cost £20 each and lost only £80 and £68 in poorer exchange rates. Total cost: £188 for a transfer of £11,000.

The best single transfer I did was of £14,000 with a SWIFT fee of £20 and loss on exchange rate of £97. Total cost: £117 for a transfer of £14,000. (I got an exchange rate of 71.36 when X-Rates showed 71.86. So, even half a baht loss on the exchange rate equates to 7,000 baht lost per million - about £100.)

One last point, people who get their money from a bank outside Thailand using an ATM card MUST check the rate they are getting. But sit down first.

[JimGant]

RDN,

One last point, people who get their money from a bank outside Thailand using an ATM card MUST check the rate they are getting. But sit down first.

The ATM rate for cards issued on US banks is actually pretty fair. My bank (Suntrust), and most others I know of, use the "interbank exchange rate," which usually is in the running with the most favorable 'buy' rate. For June 10, it was 40.64 to the US dollar, while the Telex rate was 40.54.

http://www.bot.or.th/bothomepage/databank/.../exchange_e.asp

Yes, I pay a 1% fee for getting baht with my US ATM card, which lowers the effective exchange rate to 40.23. Then, tacking on the 2$ per transaction fee, the effective rate on a 20,000 baht withdrawal becomes about 40.07.

Because I pay $50 to wire money to Bangkok Bank from the US, I need to wire at least $4000 to make it worthwhile to live off my Bangkok Bank ATM card and not my Suntrust. And, of course, it's even more worthwhile if I send even larger chunks of money, like, one big chunk per year. Yeah, there are other considerations, like speculation risk and foregone interest. But it doesn't seem too important, particularly with today's paltry interest rates on my liquid accounts in the States.

But, back to subject, the ATM exchange rates haven't been too bad in my experience. Relatedly, credit card exchange rates are also usually around the 'interbank exchange rate.' BUT while most charge a 1% exchange rate fee, some charge more, and it's not usually apparent unless you run the numbers, or ask the card company. In my case, First USA Visa was charging me 3%, which escaped my knowledge for several months. I'm now with MBNA at 1%.

But I guess if I got a credit card from Bangkok Bank, I'd be even better off. But I haven't done that yet.

[JimGant]

ando,

There was a thread here recently that pointed out some folks were getting a much lower exchange rate than they anticipated. For some, the reason was that they had checked the wrong block on the wire order, namely: they had checked the 'foreign currency' block, not the 'local currency' block. In your case, if you sent 'baht,' not Aussie dollars, you'd be in for a bad deal. I'm not sure why this is, nor whether your 10% situation is off the radarscope. But it might be something to consider.

[RDN]

RDN,

One last point, people who get their money from a bank outside Thailand using an ATM card MUST check the rate they are getting. But sit down first.

The ATM rate for cards issued on US banks is actually pretty fair. My bank (Suntrust), and most others I know of, use the "interbank exchange rate," which usually is in the running with the most favorable 'buy' rate. For June 10, it was 40.64 to the US dollar, while the Telex rate was 40.54. But I guess if I got a credit card from Bangkok Bank, I'd be even better off. But I haven't done that yet.

Looks like you've done your homework and got a good bank. But a lot of tourists and even long-stayers don't and they just don't realise how all the charges mount up. I was lucky enough to read an article in a UK paper about it before I lived here and posted a reply in this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10865

My post was to enlighten people from England about the hidden costs of ATMs and to inform them about an ATM card that charges absolutely nothing. This is an extract of my post:

Here are some comparisons of Nationwide vs. National Westminster bank:

10,000 baht: NatWest £162.83, Nationwide £154.23

5,000 baht: NatWest £81.69, Nationwide £77.30

The above figures were true at the end of 2001. I used both cards in the same ATM on the same day and checked the charges when I got back to England.

This means you lose over 5% of your own money using this (Nat West) ATM card.

But now I have a Krung Thai bank account and use it's ATM card and top up every year from England using a SWIFT transfer.

[thaihome]

thaihome: A technical question?  I have the handout from Bangkok Bank in front of me and they list the swift code you did but also a routing number "NYUABA0869"

I forwarded both numbers to Charles Schwab a couple of year ago and the money came through with no hitch.  Do you know if they use both SWIFT and the Routing Number to get the money to the main branch in BKK or is the Routing Number used when New York is involved?

I don't know if the wire transfer office at the main branch got the wire through their New York office or whether it came direct?

Don't put the routing number on the request. That will route it through NY and you don't need to do that. Again, you will have to convince your bank that they don't need a Federal Reserve Routing Number. On my request form it has Routing #, I cross that out and write SWIFT #, then put the code.

Here is a link to the Bangkok Bank fund transfer FAQ .

TH

[Up2U]

My Uk bank makes difficulties in setting up a transfer, because of the fears of 'money-laundering'. However once I have set up a quarterly transfer system with them it works very well.

You just have to be patient with all these little clerk-type people and let them think that they are performing their job properly and adding something to society. Then they will be able to relax and help you.

[JimGant]

RDN,

But now I have a Krung Thai bank account and use it's ATM card and top up every year from England using a SWIFT transfer

That would seem the way to go, as you sidestep any foreign exchange fees associated with non-Thai banks. A Krung Thai credit card, too, would seem prudent, saving on at least foreign exchange fees charged by non-Thai issued credit cards.

How often do you top up from England? To my thinking, one top up per year -- right before extension time in order to bring up to requirement level -- would be the best way to go. As such, you only pay one wire fee per year, not multiple fees (in my case, $50 per wire transfer).

However, if I understand what I read on this forum, Thai immigration likes to see multiple inflow activity to your bank account during the year. And, yes, we know what they're looking for. But I would think you would pass muster if your passbook showed a 13 month history as follows: -- initially brought up to requirement before last extension by a foreign transfer; then a series of ATM withdrawals during the next 12 months showing your ongoing expenses; and then right before renewal, another top up from abroad to bring you up to requirement level. And having such a 13 month history should seemingly work if in place prior to applying for your first ever long term visa extension.

Can't believe Thai immigration wouldn't be satisfied with the above. But, then again-------.

[lopburi3]

QUOTE (lopburi3 @ Thu 2004-06-10, 12:10:17)

Have checked a US $9,000 transfer in April and the local charge could not have been more than about 1/4% from the listed telex transfer rate for that date. 

RE the exchange rate, I use xe.com and x-rates.com . The rates they quote are the exact rates I was getting on my Citibank credit card in Thailand a month ago.

In this case I used the specific bank (Bangkok Bank) which also has a look up system. I would check what Jim has mentioned; make darn sure your bank sent $ and not baht (home banks make more profit making the exchange themselves but you lose big time). The fact daughter received an even amount makes me think this is probably what happened.