"remind me to do it", hai

[thailandsgreat]

Are both these sentences OK translations of

"remind me to do it"?

 

1. dtʉʉan hai pom tam

2. dtʉʉan pom hai tam

 

Thanks

[Exploring Thailand]

Looks like dtʉʉan hai pom tam is the way to go.

 

.

Ignore the picture below. It's a duplicate, but the system won't let me delete it.

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Exploring Thailand
Trying to get rid of the duplicate picture, but it won't let me.

[timendres]

9 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Looks like dtʉʉan hai pom tam is the way to go.

 

.

Ignore the picture below. It's a duplicate, but the system won't let me delete it.

 

That is a brilliant technique!

[thailandsgreat]

1 hour ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Looks like dtʉʉan hai pom tam is the way to go.

 

 

I also get stuck in the browser. A couple of weeks ago the TV-app worked but I can't log in with it any more.

 

Does it depend on what we are reminded to do?

 

 

 

It took a while before I found out I must set "desktop mode" to see # hits in Google from the phone.

 

Edit

Using quotes

(Guess: Google does not take the quotes into account for a longer search term??)

Edited November 15, 2019 by thailandsgreat

[jackdd]

My girlfriend usually talks about something which she has to do, and then finished the sentence with something like เตือนฉันด้วย, i understand this part as "remind me to do it"

[Exploring Thailand]

9 hours ago, thailandsgreat said:

I also get stuck in the browser. A couple of weeks ago the TV-app worked but I can't log in with it any more.

 

Does it depend on what we are reminded to do?

 

 

 

It took a while before I found out I must set "desktop mode" to see # hits in Google from the phone.

 

Edit

Using quotes

(Guess: Google does not take the quotes into account for a longer search term??)

I tried it on my phone. The first time Google offered to set a reminder! It's getting too clever. The second time it returned no hits. I don't know why there it is behaving differently for you and me. I didn't set Desktop-mode. I just typed it in.

[thailandsgreat]

6 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

I tried it on my phone. The first time Google offered to set a reminder! It's getting too clever. The second time it returned no hits. I don't know why there it is behaving differently for you and me. I didn't set Desktop-mode. I just typed it in.

The numbers I get seem very high, it could have treated the words individually and not as a sentence (to reduce processing time?). But I have this from an app:

dtʉʉan pom hai ...

So I was curious about the function of hai. It seems to come both before and after the person being reminded.

Edited November 15, 2019 by thailandsgreat

[Exploring Thailand]

10 hours ago, thailandsgreat said:

The numbers I get seem very high, it could have treated the words individually and not as a sentence (to reduce processing time?). But I have this from an app:

dtʉʉan pom hai ...

So I was curious about the function of hai. It seems to come both before and after the person being reminded.

Hai has a lot of uses. Hai <someone><do something> means to get or allow someone to do something.  <do something> hai <someone> means do something for someone. 

 

[tgeezer]

On 11/15/2019 at 1:38 PM, Exploring Thailand said:

Looks like dtʉʉan hai pom tam is the way to go.

 

.

Ignore the picture below. It's a duplicate, but the system won't let me delete it.

 

Does this come from an app? I see that it is used to show which construction is more common but where does it get the information?  

I am trying to see why one should be more acceptable than the other since later, by adding telephone the landlord both positions of ให้ appear to be equally acceptable. 

Incidentally there is no difference in the translation of either one, ‘remind me to do”. 

 

[thailandsgreat]

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

Does this come from an app?

 

The sentences in the first post I constructed since I believe I have heard "hai" both before and after the person being reminded. But I am not sure how the actual sentences continued.

 

The sentence about phoning the landlord comes from an app. Here the "hai" comes after the person being reminded.

Edited November 16, 2019 by thailandsgreat

[tgeezer]

I was asking about the corpus, from which the data on usage comes, in order to decide how useful it is. 

Don’t you find it strange that your two examples when entered in that resource should get such different results but the two later examples, each with the same syntax but more context, produce an equal number of results? 

[thailandsgreat]

21 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

I was asking about the corpus, from which the data on usage comes, in order to decide how useful it is. 

Don’t you find it strange that your two examples when entered in that resource should get such different results but the two later examples, each with the same syntax but more context, produce an equal number of results? 

The app is Ling. "Master Monkey Thai teacher"

...

Yes. I commented on that. I doubt the 40+ million hits. But I trusted the app. I can just say it "looks well made"

...

Right now I can not find a Thai person to explain which sentences are correct and if they differ in meaning.

[Exploring Thailand]

15 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Does this come from an app? I see that it is used to show which construction is more common but where does it get the information?  

They're just screen shots Google search results. Putting quotes around a word or expression tells Google to search for exactly that phrase. So, if it is working as advertised, the Google index of the entire internet has 16,100 occurrences of the first search term and just 6 of the second one. I put the red numbers on myself to marry up with thailandgreat's post.

[sunnyboy2018]

On 11/15/2019 at 4:48 PM, Exploring Thailand said:

I tried it on my phone. The first time Google offered to set a reminder! It's getting too clever. The second time it returned no hits. I don't know why there it is behaving differently for you and me. I didn't set Desktop-mode. I just typed it in.

I changed from chrome to firefox and the improvement was brilliant...no more p** u** or a*****s.

[tgeezer]

11 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

They're just screen shots Google search results. Putting quotes around a word or expression tells Google to search for exactly that phrase. So, if it is working as advertised, the Google index of the entire internet has 16,100 occurrences of the first search term and just 6 of the second one. I put the red numbers on myself to marry up with thailandgreat's post.

Thank’s.  I suppose it is useful in that you should never hear คนไทยไม่พูด if you check everything before uttering it.

In this case it says that we should discount เตือนผมให้ทำ in favour of เตือนให้ผมทำ but that we should accept either เตือนให้ผม and เตือนผมให้ when the เตือน is expanded upon. 

 

For the sake of discussion I put Remind me to do it In Thai-language.com forum and got พรุ่งนี้เตือนให้ผมทำด้ยวนะ 

is there any difference between Remind me tomorrow to do it OK?  and Remind me to do it tomorrow OK?  

The translation given in T-L.com says that the task will be done tomorrow. 

I post this to say that it is a question of parlance, do you see any difference in the English versions? 

If the task was to be done tomorrow I would say that พรุ่งนี้ should be closer to the verb ทำ .  ช่วยเตือนผมให้ทำพรุ่งนี้ด้วยนะ or ช่วยเตือนให้ผมทำพรุ่งนี้นะ 

If you took the Thai to a native speaker of Thai I bet the reaction would be the same as if I took the English to a native speaker of English; both people would know to what ทำ = it refers or (...know what ทำ=it refers to)   so the meaning would be clear.   ให้ helps a verb but which one? I would say both เตือน and ทำ so it doesn’t matter where it goes. 

If noting else I am sure that the meaning of ให้ is firmly fixed in people’s mind now! 

 

[Exploring Thailand]

8 hours ago, tgeezer said:

For the sake of discussion I put Remind me to do it In Thai-language.com forum and got พรุ่งนี้เตือนให้ผมทำด้ยวนะ 

is there any difference between Remind me tomorrow to do it OK?  and Remind me to do it tomorrow OK?  

The translation given in T-L.com says that the task will be done tomorrow. 

I'd say Remind me tomorrow to do it clearly specifies when I want to you to remind me, whereas Remind me to do it tomorrow is ambiguous.

 

Here are some more examples, taken from longdo.com. There seems to quite a bit of flexibility in the use of ให้ with เตือน. I'm wondering if in เตือนให้ผม it feels more like the emphasis is on the act of reminding whereas in เตือนผมให้... it is more on the action to be performed.

 

 

 

[tgeezer]

I always find longdo incredibly funny, most of the Thai is translation of English novels, try translating the Thai back into English. I don’t think that they are at all correct, I would love to see some one explain them to me. 
For example: เตือนให้ผมถามคุณ(...)ว่า .....บ่อย if more often is wanted บ่อยกว่าเดิม needs to go after the verb (...) not tagged on to มื้อเชา  with หน่อย at the tail end! 

 

[Exploring Thailand]

Yes. I know it does come in for some stick. Those examples are from movie subtitles. Personally, I find it pretty useful. There are definitely a few (or perhaps more than a few) weird translations, but if you search for a term and scan through all of the results, you can often get a pretty good feel for a decent translation.

[tgeezer]

9 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Yes. I know it does come in for some stick. Those examples are from movie subtitles. Personally, I find it pretty useful. There are definitely a few (or perhaps more than a few) weird translations, but if you search for a term and scan through all of the results, you can often get a pretty good feel for a decent translation.

For the benefit of those who may be lurking can we discuss some specifics?  I am not asking you to justify Longdo only to discuss the Thai where it might help new learners recognise and analyse some of the more esoteric examples.  

 

What about บ่อยหน่อย in my previous post?

Then there is one example: remind me in two months which in the Thai ends with รึ ? I know from ? that รึ = หรือ but there is no question in the English.

Also เตือน is not used, the verb used is ตอกย้ำ (hammer repeatedly) which is not a word in the RID but emphasise is the word attributed to it in Longdo and there is a Thai definition!      

 These are probably examples of “perhaps more than a few” weird translations which I feel we might try to justify.    

 

 

[Exploring Thailand]

35 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

For the benefit of those who may be lurking can we discuss some specifics?  I am not asking you to justify Longdo only to discuss the Thai where it might help new learners recognise and analyse some of the more esoteric examples.  

My Thai is not really good enough to analyse the correctness of the translations. If I were translating the sentence, then I would use บ่อยกว่าเดิม in the way you suggest, and รึ is new to me, but for the way I use it Longdo works well. After searching for Remind me to and scanning the results, I have a better feel for the ways it can be translated.  The individual translations certainly need to be treated with caution. The way I look at it is that the translation was probably done by a professional translator, or at least by a native-Thai speaker, so the vast majority should be acceptable. If I see a translation that looks odd, I put it down to either my lack of understanding or a mistranslation.  

 

Subtitle translations are further complicated by their lack of context. Sometimes, they only make sense when you can see the dialogue that came earlier. The Thai used in them is sometimes not "correct" in the same way that the English dialogue in the original movie is often not grammatically correct. But despite all of those caveats, it's proving a useful resource for me, though I know other people think like you, and avoid it.

 

I've gone so far as to write a little script which allows me to highlight any word or phrase, English or Thai, and look up it up on Longdo. If, after using that, I'm still unsure, I go to thai-dictionary.com or other resources.  For me that is by far the quickest way to work. Before subtitles were added to Longdo, thai-dictionary.com was my go-to. Perhaps further down the line, when my Thai is better, I'll make more use of the RID and less of longdo, although I believe that, because of its prescriptive perspective, even the RID is not without its critics. 

[rumak]

On 11/15/2019 at 5:25 PM, jackdd said:

My girlfriend usually talks about something which she has to do, and then finished the sentence with something like เตือนฉันด้วย, i understand this part as "remind me to do it"

file the divorce papers ?

[tgeezer]

Very nicely put, I admire your English, and thanks for making me research Open Subtitles I wondered what it meant! 

Sometimes it is the only thing that Longdo offers when researching a word. In those cases do you think that there is no other means that they have that explains the word?

I have an Oxford River Eng-Thai dictionary which mirrors entries in the OED which are fun to use together and if it were not for the labour involved I would use more often, perhaps I shall employ them on this topic. 

 

[thailandsgreat]

11 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

My Thai is not really good enough to analyse the correctness of the translations. If I were translating the sentence, then I would use บ่อยกว่าเดิม in the way you suggest, and รึ is new to me, but for the way I use it Longdo works well. After searching for Remind me to and scanning the results, I have a better feel for the ways it can be translated.  The individual translations certainly need to be treated with caution. The way I look at it is that the translation was probably done by a professional translator, or at least by a native-Thai speaker, so the vast majority should be acceptable. If I see a translation that looks odd, I put it down to either my lack of understanding or a mistranslation.  

 

Subtitle translations are further complicated by their lack of context. Sometimes, they only make sense when you can see the dialogue that came earlier. The Thai used in them is sometimes not "correct" in the same way that the English dialogue in the original movie is often not grammatically correct. But despite all of those caveats, it's proving a useful resource for me, though I know other people think like you, and avoid it.

 

I've gone so far as to write a little script which allows me to highlight any word or phrase, English or Thai, and look up it up on Longdo. If, after using that, I'm still unsure, I go to thai-dictionary.com or other resources.  For me that is by far the quickest way to work. Before subtitles were added to Longdo, thai-dictionary.com was my go-to. Perhaps further down the line, when my Thai is better, I'll make more use of the RID and less of longdo, although I believe that, because of its prescriptive perspective, even the RID is not without its critics. 

This is a search for "remind" in TL, some "hai" are highlighted in red. My Thai is very rudimentary and when listening to apps the hai:s seemingly strike into the sentences like lightning from a clear sky.

 

Is your script for the subtitles open source? What is  needed to run it?

 

 

 

[Exploring Thailand]

12 hours ago, thailandsgreat said:

This is a search for "remind" in TL, some "hai" are highlighted in red. My Thai is very rudimentary and when listening to apps the hai:s seemingly strike into the sentences like lightning from a clear sky.

It think TL probably has higher quality examples, although there are fewer of them. Some of their material is also from real-world examples. For example they use a lot of the material from the extemporised monologues at aakanee.com. This is my equivalent search for ให้. It takes about 3 seconds to get the pop-up.

 

 

Quote

Is your script for the subtitles open source? What is  needed to run it?

 

It's just a little AutoHotKey script. It needs a bit of tweaking because it leaves a few Internet Explorer process hanging around. I'll fix it up and put it on GitHub. I've just started a little hobby YouTube channel and I'm planning on doing a video on resources for learning Thai. I'll include it in that and explain how to use it. It can also be used to create cloze deletions for Anki.

 

 

[thailandsgreat]

25 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

It think TL probably has higher quality examples, although there are fewer of them. Some of their material is also from real-world examples. For example they use a lot of the material from the extemporised monologues at aakanee.com. This is my equivalent search for ให้. It takes about 3 seconds to get the pop-up.

 

 

 

It's just a little AutoHotKey script. It needs a bit of tweaking because it leaves a few Internet Explorer process hanging around. I'll fix it up and put it on GitHub. I've just started a little hobby YouTube channel and I'm planning on doing a video on resources for learning Thai. I'll include it in that and explain how to use it. It can also be used to create cloze deletions for Anki.

 

 

Thanks. That will be useful. Look forward to it.

 

(In TL one can naturally highlight by searching the webpage:

 

 

[Exploring Thailand]

30 minutes ago, thailandsgreat said:

(In TL one can naturally highlight by searching the webpage:

Agreed, but I'm all for reducing keystrokes, tab-switching, and typing. Since Longdo introduced the subtitles database, and I've had the script, I look up far more words than I used to (and I used to look up a lot ???? ).

[sunnyboy2018]

I noticed years ago how creative the girls were with the english language using puns  double meanings, visual reference etc