Income Ver Guidance “only for first time ret extension”

[arjunadawn]

My wife returned early morn to Trat Immigration. She brought The Thai and English 21 Dec 18 Immigration Memo authorizing one year flexibility window, and asked why they would not consider less than 12 months income wire proofs when I’d only had 10-11 months time to even comply?
 

The issue regards new income verification by money into Thai bank. I was denied after five years, though I had lots of proof, and they had minimally my last years records- their physical records- in front of them. Small office. Found in moments. This is what mutatis muntadis means- totality of record.

 

They insist this memo applies ONLY to new Retirement Extension application. “Alien” and other emphatic phrases don’t inform them of buffoonery. So, this memo then ONLY applies to the single applicant group who could never require it. If I’m not mistaken, new first time applicant do NOT have this burden. 
 

DMV, Army, Ex Wife... I have never encountered such incompetence and stupidity in my life. 

[arjunadawn]

Trat Immigration called BKK. Said bkk state this letter only pertains to first time retire extension applicants. 

[ubonjoe]

I do not see how they could say it is only for first time extensions.

The police order has the allowance for first time extensions in it.

 

[arjunadawn]

48 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I do not see how they could say it is only for first time extensions.

The police order has the allowance for first time extensions in it.

 

The colonel who spoke with my wife today insisting I was not the intended population for such a directive- he paused, then returned the call to wife saying Bangkok confirms- only for first time applicants. 
 

I tire of this.

[UKresonant]

It would seem it is OK to ask for something that would be only a randomly occurring event, that may comply with their requirements!

 

If it was just the reason that the person has only just initiated the pension income, and could only provide less than 12, that would be incompatible with them saying it only applies in the first year, as that situation will occur every year, will it not. Perhaps they have an over-inflated view that people only retire to immediately come to Thailand ????. 

[UKresonant]

#5 Cont'd (sorry distracted watching the UK election campaign on the BBC, content also with many unclear details ????) 

So with their statement, someone retiring next year, arriving on a 90 day non-O SE, then wishes to extend for a year by income method would, have to come to Thailand on another visa, try and open a bank account, initiate transfers to the Thai bank and then defer such an arrival by 9 months after the first transfer? Is that what they are now trying to say?

 

I thought 'new' extension applicants, could currently show only a few transfers  to apply for an extension?

 

Perhaps they could issue logical process flow charts along with the words of a new order...

 

I've read other posts where have accepted less than 12 months, earlier in the year.

 

But if that was the design, they are saying it was intended that citizens affected by their tiff with those embassies, could not possibly have complied with the new requirement to transfer to a Thai bank unless it was coincidental that they had been doing the requirement already. Perhaps  leniency sounds like something else when spoken in Thai  ????. 

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

I thought 'new' extension applicants, could currently show only a few transfers  to apply for an extension?

That is correct and is shown in the post I did earlier.

[Martyp]

You’ve been here five years? How did you meet the financial requirements for last years extension? Is this about monthly income or the 400,000 minimum balance?

Edited November 27, 2019 by Martyp

[BertM]

1 hour ago, arjunadawn said:

The colonel who spoke with my wife today insisting I was not the intended population for such a directive- he paused, then returned the call to wife saying Bangkok confirms- only for first time applicants. 
 

I tire of this.

Maybe what he means is that you are not newly retired and have been on extensions in the past so that means 12 mths for you whereas someone who recently retired and is applying for their first extension only needs a few monthly xfers. I'm just guessing... I thought also, that IM would be lenient the first year due to the Embassies canceling the income letters/stat decs/affidavits. Maybe you could make a border run and start over with a Non-O based on just a few mthly xfers.

Edited November 27, 2019 by BertM

[arjunadawn]

13 minutes ago, BertM said:

Maybe what he means is that you are not newly retired and have been on extensions in the past so that means 12 mths for you whereas someone who recently retired and is applying for their first extension only needs a few monthly xfers. I'm just guessing... I thought also, that IM would be lenient the first year due to the Embassies canceling the income letters/stat decs/affidavits. Maybe you could make a border run and start over with a Non-O based on just a few mthly xfers.

There is a key point missed in your comment. The rule is from Dec18/Jan 19. Other means of proof were accepted prior. Few can prove 12 months wire until Jan 2020 (Unless they formally expensively Wired each month). Most used embassy income verification. In my case, I also always showed us bank deposits and local ATM with draw exceeding 65000 / month. 
 

I nearly feel I <deleted> someone off, but... I don’t know these folks.

[BertM]

5 hours ago, arjunadawn said:

There is a key point missed in your comment. The rule is from Dec18/Jan 19. Other means of proof were accepted prior. Few can prove 12 months wire until Jan 2020 (Unless they formally expensively Wired each month). Most used embassy income verification. In my case, I also always showed us bank deposits and local ATM with draw exceeding 65000 / month. 
 

I nearly feel I <deleted> someone off, but... I don’t know these folks.

There is a key point I think you are missing. The notice from US embassy was in Oct 2018. So, if you would have started in Nov 2018, then you would have 12 monthly xfers thru Oct 2019 and you wouldn't have a problem. I understand the Thai police order was issued later, but anyone counting on using less than 12 mths and going all year long hoping that IM would accept less than 12 xfers was taking a big risk. Sometimes, things work out and sometimes they don't. So, it's always good to have a back up plan. That's news to me that Thai immigration would accept US bank deposits & ATM withdrawals as proof for 65k per month method. I always had to get an income affidavit from US embassy even though I had a US pension way more than the 65k. They wouldn't accept my US bank deposits, pension letter or statement. See notice from US Embassy website:

Bangkok – October 26, 2018: Effective January 1, 2019, the United States Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate General in Chiang Mai will no longer provide an income affidavit and will not notarize previous versions of the income affidavit.

Edited November 27, 2019 by BertM

[BertM]

Just wanted to add... sorry to hear you were denied... 

9 hours ago, arjunadawn said:

She brought The Thai and English 21 Dec 18 Immigration Memo authorizing one year flexibility window, and asked why they would not consider less than 12 months income wire proofs when I’d only had 10-11 months time to even comply?

You didn't say exactly how many monthly xfers you made this year, you only said that you "only had 10-11 months time to even comply?" As I said in a previous post, I thought IM would be lenient, but I wasn't willing to take the chance by going all year long until Oct 2019 only to find out they wouldn't accept 10 monthly xfers, so I did the bank method to be safe. Many people posted over the past several months that IM only accepted 12 mths, so I was glad I decided to do the bank method. Hope you can figure an easy way out of this... Good night...

Edited November 27, 2019 by BertM

[Martyp]

3 hours ago, BertM said:

There is a key point I think you are missing. The notice from US embassy was in Oct 2018. So, if you would have started in Nov 2018, then you would have 12 monthly xfers thru Oct 2019 and you wouldn't have a problem. I understand the Thai police order was issued later, but anyone counting on using less than 12 mths and going all year long hoping that IM would accept less than 12 xfers was taking a big risk. Sometimes, things work out and sometimes they don't. So, it's always good to have a back up plan. That's news to me that Thai immigration would accept US bank deposits & ATM withdrawals as proof for 65k per month method. I always had to get an income affidavit from US embassy even though I had a US pension way more than the 65k. They wouldn't accept my US bank deposits, pension letter or statement. See notice from US Embassy website:

Bangkok – October 26, 2018: Effective January 1, 2019, the United States Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate General in Chiang Mai will no longer provide an income affidavit and will not notarize previous versions of the income affidavit.

I'm not quite sure how anyone, or at least most people, would go from a US Embassy announcement that they weren't giving out income affidavits anymore to knowing the full plan that Thai immigration had regarding financial requirements. When Thai Immigration first talked about leniency I wondered whether that would extend over the whole year. Apparently not and leniency is apparently only available for first time extension applicants. It is pretty predictable that some people would be left out in the cold. I will say, though, the OP knew he might have had a problem quite a while ago and could have investigated this much earlier and tried to come up with a plan B.

 

A couple of years ago I started transferring my monthly funds every other month to cut down on transfer fees. Fortunately I was already using the banked money method to meet the financial requirements. But it is easy to see that someone could get caught without 800,000 baht in the bank. And it is easy to see why many people may have problems getting that much money together even over 5-6 months time when this was becoming clearer. There was a lot of confusion and misunderstanding at the beginning of the year and that is just among the folks on social media. Most people don't follow social media.

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, Martyp said:

You’ve been here five years? How did you meet the financial requirements for last years extension? Is this about monthly income or the 400,000 minimum balance?

Embassy letter.

It is about monthly income.